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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 868	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:46:00 - [25951] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: One Eyed King wrote: I would just like to reiterate before I take the time to read over the EWAR numbers that taking away the knife bonus on the minja will just make the Gal scout a better knifer (because superior low slots). You would have to give Minmatar super duper hack bonuses, or superior than Gallente Dampening bonuses (the latter of which I certainly don't recommend) in order to even circumstantially give people a reason to run Minmatar over Gallente. Otherwise, Gal Scouts could just throw on a Code Breaker (or have a fit just with Code Breakers) and they would be a good enough substitute for hacking that it would be insane to throw all that SP in a Minmatar scouts for so little marginal benefit. Minjas have been overly d*cked over enough as it is. I haven't even gotten to what might be Minja killing EWAR changes, and you are already talking about making them more meaningless. Absolutely boggles my mind. By this same logic isn't the Cal a terrible scout? What with their oh so terrible 2 low slots. They sure don't seem to be struggling. If we switched the CalScout bonus to efficacy, he'd be significantly weakened. Rattati was originally on the right track.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6277	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:46:00 - [25952] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: One Eyed King wrote: I would just like to reiterate before I take the time to read over the EWAR numbers that taking away the knife bonus on the minja will just make the Gal scout a better knifer (because superior low slots). You would have to give Minmatar super duper hack bonuses, or superior than Gallente Dampening bonuses (the latter of which I certainly don't recommend) in order to even circumstantially give people a reason to run Minmatar over Gallente. Otherwise, Gal Scouts could just throw on a Code Breaker (or have a fit just with Code Breakers) and they would be a good enough substitute for hacking that it would be insane to throw all that SP in a Minmatar scouts for so little marginal benefit. Minjas have been overly d*cked over enough as it is. I haven't even gotten to what might be Minja killing EWAR changes, and you are already talking about making them more meaningless. Absolutely boggles my mind. By this same logic isn't the Cal a terrible scout? What with their oh so terrible 2 low slots. They sure don't seem to be struggling. They can shield tank better than Minmatar and don't have the innately low HP. Plus I think their fitting costs are better. Their role can be from range, which reduces some of their other negatives. Plus they are pretty good at strafing for some reason. The role of Cal scouts don't over lap as much with the Gal scouts as much as Minmatar. Minmatar fall in the middle where they can't do shields as well as the Cal, or have the range, which would go against their current bonuses anyways, and they can't compete with dampening, armor tank and CQC with the Gal aside from having a bonus to knives. Amarr come closer to being non viable, especially since their slots also mirror Gallente , but with making them an all seeing Sentinel repper with the EWAR changes goes a long way to making them more OP than the others. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6277	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:51:00 - [25953] - Quote Spademan wrote: Bayeth Mal wrote: Spademan wrote: Spotted from the spreadsheet. No Directional arrow on minimap. Thoughts? It's going to make me less informed. Therefore every encounter has the potential to take incoming fire. I only have one option for mitigation of that event... HP And what of a scenario where both parties see each other but not direction? Any difference? (I'm thinking not) This is where I think there can be more scoutly play. You can strafe or backpedal to make your opponent think you don't know they are there, and let them think you have your flank or back to them, and then pop them when they come out of cover. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1008	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:51:00 - [25954] - Quote These ewar discussions are insane. What's so bad with the ewar we have now? Stabby-stabber extraordinaire I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4830	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:56:00 - [25955] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: and they can't compete with dampening, armor tank and CQC with the Gal aside from having a bonus to knives. This makes me wonder, why don't the Gal have the knives and the Minatar have the shotgun? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6277	Posted - 2014.12.02 00:08:00 - [25956] - Quote Spademan wrote: One Eyed King wrote: and they can't compete with dampening, armor tank and CQC with the Gal aside from having a bonus to knives. This makes me wonder, why don't the Gal have the knives and the Minatar have the shotgun? Minmatar could handle heavies with knives, but not with a shotgun. Same goes for medium frames. We are just so squishy we need that high Alpha. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6277	Posted - 2014.12.02 00:09:00 - [25957] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: These ewar discussions are insane. What's so bad with the ewar we have now? People want Mediums to have more stake in the EWAR discussion. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 871	Posted - 2014.12.02 00:11:00 - [25958] - Quote If Logis are going to get Scan Precision and Range, do you think AM/CA Scouts might get 4EQ? Or would that second part be too much like role bleed?
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4830	Posted - 2014.12.02 00:15:00 - [25959] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Spademan wrote: One Eyed King wrote: and they can't compete with dampening, armor tank and CQC with the Gal aside from having a bonus to knives. This makes me wonder, why don't the Gal have the knives and the Minatar have the shotgun? Minmatar could handle heavies with knives, but not with a shotgun. Same goes for medium frames. We are just so squishy we need that high Alpha. I'm thinking more "from the beginning" It seemed like it was always clear that the Gal would be the stealthiest. To me stealth seems to be the biggest aid to stabbing someone in the back, more so than speed. Wheras Shotguns seem to benefit moreso from speed. It fits the background, (I'm pretty sure) Nova knives could have easily been a Gallente creation as opposed to Caldari. (wut?) The Gallente are even more up close and personal than the Minmatar. It's easier to shoot and run with a shotgun than it is to stab and run, Minmatar are the hit'n'runners. Hell, in TF2 the guy with the knife is steathier and the guy with the shotgun is faster. I suppose there's no changing it now though. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Bayeth Mal Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1985	Posted - 2014.12.02 01:11:00 - [25960] - Quote The Barbershop, where you go to get your Haerr cut. (I'm not the first to make this joke am I?) We'll bang, OK?

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6277	Posted - 2014.12.02 01:14:00 - [25961] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: The Barbershop, where you go to get your Haerr cut. (I'm not the first to make this joke am I?) Pretty sure you are. Good work. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Bayeth Mal Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1985	Posted - 2014.12.02 01:21:00 - [25962] - Quote I'm still against this idea of there being a "stealth scout". It's kinda fundamental to the role. Unless we accept light assault as an actual thing (speed scout?). Also there should be no such thing as an "anti-scout scout". We called BS on the solution to tanks being more tanks. It should be no different with us. We'll bang, OK?
Bayeth Mal Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1985	Posted - 2014.12.02 01:27:00 - [25963] - Quote Just thought I should give a quick summary of my position on this whole kerfuffle. We'll bang, OK?

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 12543	Posted - 2014.12.02 02:19:00 - [25964] - Quote Updated scan proposal "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

sir RAVEN WING Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 1090	Posted - 2014.12.02 02:26:00 - [25965] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Updated scan proposal The dev has returned just as the prophecy foretold! Now notice me! RPG!. The Ultimate Forum Passing-Time MetaGame!
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1008	Posted - 2014.12.02 03:19:00 - [25966] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: These ewar discussions are insane. What's so bad with the ewar we have now? People want Mediums to have more stake in the EWAR discussion. Well I mean, great, but is a complete ewar rework really worth that? I get that the current system's not perfect, but it's at least decent currently, right? I don't see why there should be such meteoric changes to ewar when there are other issues to tackle. Maybe it's not as big of a deal as it seems, but... CCP Rattati wrote: Cloak Dampening increased to 5%/10%/15% to allow Minmatar Scouts to be on equal terms with other Scouts in PC. So minnie scouts have to use the now-terrible cloak in order to stay afloat? I don't like this. I don't fancy the idea of having the KN bonus taken away either. Edit: Updated proposal and commentary is here, for reference Stabby-stabber extraordinaire I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 154	Posted - 2014.12.02 03:19:00 - [25967] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Updated scan proposal Thx for the update. I really appreciate your effort. Shotgun will benefit from your new propose a lot. However, that 6M Short range + buggy uncloak delay are guarantee a dead minja. Min need 3 Comp Damp + (10% bonus) cloak to get below 15 dB, so the basic or adv min still suffer. Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6286	Posted - 2014.12.02 03:47:00 - [25968] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: These ewar discussions are insane. What's so bad with the ewar we have now? People want Mediums to have more stake in the EWAR discussion. Well I mean, great, but is a complete ewar rework really worth that? I get that the current system's not perfect, but it's at least decent currently, right? I don't see why there should be such meteoric changes to ewar when there are other issues to tackle. Maybe it's not as big of a deal as it seems, but... CCP Rattati wrote: Cloak Dampening increased to 5%/10%/15% to allow Minmatar Scouts to be on equal terms with other Scouts in PC. So minnie scouts have to use the now-terrible cloak in order to stay afloat? I don't like this. I don't fancy the idea of having the KN bonus taken away either. Edit: Updated proposal and commentary is here, for reference I think that with the 6 m inner circle lowered from 12 m really helps. 6 m is nothing, as you can notice from the 5 m you get while cloaked. It does kind of suck, but hopefully things come back around to getting fixed once Rattati reduces the OP scouts and sees that we are still way behind. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
LeGoose SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 710	Posted - 2014.12.02 05:45:00 - [25969] - Quote So can someone give us a tldr of the changes? I don't have time to sift through the ewar thread and the doc didn't mention anything about minja bonus changes or the penalty to opposing ewar stats when equipping an ewar mod. As far as I saw at least. Click it! I dare you...
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6289	Posted - 2014.12.02 06:04:00 - [25970] - Quote LeGoose wrote: So can someone give us a tldr of the changes? I don't have time to sift through the ewar thread and the doc didn't mention anything about minja bonus changes or the penalty to opposing ewar stats when equipping an ewar mod. As far as I saw at least. It was kind of off to the right side of the numbers. Original update post. Penalties aren't clear. He did adjust the inner circle range from 40% of total scan range to 25%, which will help to not make Amarr all powerful EWAR beings. Overall, its hard to say what is going to happen. Scouts could be even more OP, they could be so significantly less relevant that we are back to square one, or anywhere in between. Its a lot of changes and it is really hard to see right now where it can be abused and by whom. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"

Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 876	Posted - 2014.12.02 08:10:00 - [25971] - Quote LeGoose wrote: So can someone give us a tldr of the changes? I don't have time to sift through the ewar thread and the doc didn't mention anything about minja bonus changes or the penalty to opposing ewar stats when equipping an ewar mod. As far as I saw at least. For one thing, the narrative changed and "what to fix" seems to have changed with it. 13 days ago, CCP Rattati wrote: I remember someone here converting the current scout ewar bonuses to module efficacy quid pro quo. I need that data nao , because of reasons. What better time to do that change now? Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2466381#post2466381 12 days ago, CCP Rattati wrote: ... Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2468612#post2468612 ^ Rattati was very recently on (what I believe to be) the right track. It seems that he was somehow convinced that high native ewar slayer scouts aren't really the problem. The basis behind the 180 remains unclear, and we appear to have at least temporarily scrapped a solid plan (efficacy bonuses and HP drawbacks) which would've directly targeted and fixed several solid problems: * Every Nyain San Scout Loadout Ever * Each of Saxonmish's showcased Assault Lite Loadouts * Arkena's 2x damp'd "its-way-better-than-my-Assault" CalScout * Super Strafe uparmored CA Scouts The updated plan is better than the former new plan (which included Recon Logis capable of pinging at under 18dB out to 40+ meters), but it introduces several potential problems. The biggest two (in my opinion) are (1) Recon Scouts being role-bled by Recon Logi and (2) significant buffs to Heavy+Logi blobs (directional arrows removed, REs displayed, Scan Precision improved, potentially unbeatable CQC early warning system (~13dB at 7.5 - 11m)).
Varoth Drac Titans of Phoenix 424	Posted - 2014.12.02 08:40:00 - [25972] - Quote Kind of dissapointed with the EWAR discussion. Never found out details of range and precision penalties for modules, which was crucial. Instead we've ended up with 25% range amps? Is anyone seriously going to fit these anywhere except PC? And a buff to cloak dampening is kind of nice, but to be honest, with the decloak delay and scan removal, I'm hardly ever going to use a cloak when close to any enemies, making the dampening kind of pointless. I guess the short range reduction does make it less dangerous for scouts, but it limits the variability of the EWAR landscape, which was the point of the changes, by limiting the instances where the short range scanning will come into play. To be honest though, this is all very complicated, whatever happens, I think we will have to try it in game and see how it goes. Not laying blame on Zatara, he does make sense a lot of the time, but he also manages to say a lot of things I consider a bit inflammatory. Either nova knives are a lot more difficult to use than he thinks, or I am a terrible player. To be honest, it could be either.
dzizur 6 dayz 119	Posted - 2014.12.02 09:21:00 - [25973] - Quote Just checked out the EWAR changes.. Soo medframes becoming heavier scouts and scouts even more assault-lite. No directional arrow? I'f im going to take a peek everytime at the enemy to make sure which way he is facing, i'd better stack those shields and armor. When those changes where announced I thought Ill just stack more damps and that's it. But I guess it's HP all the way. Oh and I still giggle at some CPM (dont remember which one) said something along the lines that "3 damps for a medframe is too much of a cost" while I'm running my scouts with 2-3 damps.. Sometimes I wish we didn't have community feedback (more like troll feedback). Instead CCP having 2-3 PC squads playing 24/7 to iron out all the bugs and balance this game. I mean, we're shaking up the meta, making EWAR changes and what not, and I'm still getting stuck in a corridor, my nades are bouncing off invisible walls, my scanning doesn't work through terrain (its a bug since I started playing...), my caldari scout is somehow out-strafing my minmatar scout, etc. And even then, when I manage kill a guy with a gun that has more splash damage than my suit, I'm coming to dust forums to hear that my suit is OP and I need a nerf, which probably will nerf my playstyle, but will leave that dude that stacked every slot with a HP module untouched. End of rant. Sorry, I guess it's one of these days. Some (prolly stupid) feedback. If I can have 1 cloack(not that I use that POS), why the logi can't have 1 scanner? Taking it even further why we can fill all our slots with HP modules? So we can make sure that poor blueberry in a militia suit has 3x less hp and deal 15% less damage to that proto vet? How's that balance? When I started playing this game I was quite happy to find out that basic advance and proto suits have the same basic hp, because I though that you could fit it to have some small advantage (maybe 10% with max skills?). And then I learned the laws of dust : A proto gallente scout can tank more hp than a basic caldari commando. I understand that its about versatility, but its destroying the whole point of frames.
Bayeth Mal Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1997	Posted - 2014.12.02 10:39:00 - [25974] - Quote dzizur wrote: A proto gallente scout can tank more hp than a basic caldari commando. I understand that its about versatility, but its destroying the whole point of frames. And this fit http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/1261/9081 Has more 260 HP more than this fit http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/1261/9838 They just move at about the same speed. Also comparing against commandos is just silly. Commandos aren't in a great place. And comparing basic against proto is just silly. Unless you're proposing tiericide in which case I'm all for it. We'll bang, OK?
dzizur 6 dayz 119	Posted - 2014.12.02 10:53:00 - [25975] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: dzizur wrote: A proto gallente scout can tank more hp than a basic caldari commando. I understand that its about versatility, but its destroying the whole point of frames. And this fit http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/1261/9081 Has more 260 HP more than this fit http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/1261/9838 They just move at about the same speed. Also comparing against commandos is just silly. Commandos aren't in a great place. And comparing basic against proto is just silly. Unless you're proposing tiericide in which case I'm all for it. I know commandos are in a bad place, but they have been in a bad place since forever, thats part of my point, the other part of it is that a frame that is HEAVY has less hp than a LIGHT suit. I think its wrong, no matter if one is basic/militia and the other one proto. The whole point of proto IMO should be "extra few percent at the cost of loads of isk". Not "I got basic, you got advanced. I probably have 70% of your hp" Right now all the changes seem to be catered towards proto suits (look at the epic fail with equipping basic cloack on a basic scout) and stacking stuff instead of using different modules and having real diversity in loadouts. whats more I really think role bonuses should have their drawbacks (that would give basic frames a place), the same as weapons and equipment have. F.e. getting loads of HP? okay, but we have to take away a bit of damage you deal. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to impose a dmg penalty on HP modules, just having pros and cons of using a specialised frame. As for tiercide, if I understand it correctly and it means not having std/adv/proto I'm all for it. EDIT: sorry for my terribad english, I'm trying my best :P
Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1147	Posted - 2014.12.02 10:58:00 - [25976] - Quote When they started talking about a scan falloff I thought it would look something like this: precision modifier: 100 / 120 / 140 range modifier: 50 / 75 / 100 I guess I was wrong... You have been scanned
dzizur 6 dayz 119	Posted - 2014.12.02 11:02:00 - [25977] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: When they started talking about a scan falloff I thought it would look something like this: precision modifier: 100 / 120 / 140 range modifier: 50 / 75 / 100 I guess I was wrong... I'm afraid they'll "fix it" by giving knives and shotguns +10 m optimal :P ;)
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2989	Posted - 2014.12.02 12:22:00 - [25978] - Quote Well, looks like the shotgun will now be completely useless, except on an assault Good thing I have min assault at 5, and all eWAR skills maxed, and all everything shotgunning maxed. Still, Its kinda sad in a way. I really liked my minmitar scout. Oh well, RIP. What I don't understand is why Rattati didn't use my eWAR idea where you get a directional arrow if you beat the enemy by 60% or better, but a dot is the only thing that you see if you don't. That, combined with the concentric circles would help a lot. But again, oh well, I have min assault 5, why should I care about helping balance the game... "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Varoth Drac Titans of Phoenix 426	Posted - 2014.12.02 12:55:00 - [25979] - Quote I like your idea Gav. I'm worried about sentinels with the direction arrow removed. If they didn't want something so complex, they could just give heavies a different minimap marker which shows direction, as well as telling you it is a heavy you are scanning.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 879	Posted - 2014.12.02 13:00:00 - [25980] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: I like your idea Gav. I'm worried about sentinels with the direction arrow removed. If they didn't want something so complex, they could just give heavies a different minimap marker which shows direction, as well as telling you it is a heavy you are scanning. Could use the old "V" (which I believe denoted newer units).



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