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Varoth Drac wrote:

One Eyed King wrote:

I would just like to reiterate before I take the time to read over the EWAR numbers that taking away the knife bonus on the minja will just make the Gal scout a better knifer (because superior low slots).

You would have to give Minmatar super duper hack bonuses, or superior than Gallente Dampening bonuses (the latter of which I certainly don't recommend) in order to even circumstantially give people a reason to run Minmatar over Gallente.

Otherwise, Gal Scouts could just throw on a Code Breaker (or have a fit just with Code Breakers) and they would be a good enough substitute for hacking that it would be insane to throw all that SP in a Minmatar scouts for so little marginal benefit.

Minjas have been overly d*cked over enough as it is. I haven't even gotten to what might be Minja killing EWAR changes, and you are already talking about making them more meaningless. Absolutely boggles my mind.

I think I understand the why people are against removing the knife bonus. However, I think with my suggested changes, Minmatar scouts would be equal, or at least near enough to Gallente scouts for knifing.

Think about it, both could dampen well with two damps. Ok, Gallente could have faster sprint with two Kincats, but Min scouts have faster walk/run speed and better stamina and stamina regen. All good for knifing. Minmatar would also have the hacking bonus and the high slots to really capitalize on it assuming high slot codebreakers.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6272	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:02:00 - [25921] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: One Eyed King wrote: I would just like to reiterate before I take the time to read over the EWAR numbers that taking away the knife bonus on the minja will just make the Gal scout a better knifer (because superior low slots). You would have to give Minmatar super duper hack bonuses, or superior than Gallente Dampening bonuses (the latter of which I certainly don't recommend) in order to even circumstantially give people a reason to run Minmatar over Gallente. Otherwise, Gal Scouts could just throw on a Code Breaker (or have a fit just with Code Breakers) and they would be a good enough substitute for hacking that it would be insane to throw all that SP in a Minmatar scouts for so little marginal benefit. Minjas have been overly d*cked over enough as it is. I haven't even gotten to what might be Minja killing EWAR changes, and you are already talking about making them more meaningless. Absolutely boggles my mind. I think I understand the why people are against removing the knife bonus. However, I think with my suggested changes, Minmatar scouts would be equal, or at least near enough to Gallente scouts for knifing. Think about it, both could dampen well with two damps. Ok, Gallente could have faster sprint with two Kincats, but Min scouts have faster walk/run speed and better stamina and stamina regen. All good for knifing. Minmatar would also have the hacking bonus and the high slots to really capitalize on it assuming high slot codebreakers. If you threw on a Complex Cardiac Reg and a Complex Kincat on the Gal Scout, why would anyone need to run Minjas? The small amount of difference isn't worth all the SP to invest in the suit, and it can't come anywhere close to competing with the versatility of the Gal Scout. You are also assuming Codebreakers to Highs, which though I might like the idea, it has already been looked into by Rattati and it is too great an undertaking given what it would accomplish and what could be accomplished elsewhere for the same amount of work. At this point in time, it is a Minja killer. We become novelties for those who still love the Minja for its Minjaness. All others will simply use the more effective and versatile Gal Scout. It is already the present reality and removing the knife bonus puts the nail in our coffin (if EWAR changes don't do that already). Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 8408	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:08:00 - [25922] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd accuse you of empty quoting, but you're opting for empty imagination instead. Bravo. slow clap. Try to be more creative than "scrubby" next time? I demand a higher quality of troll than your skill level apparently. Scrub. That's all I got Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6272	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:11:00 - [25923] - Quote It appears as if the changes listed are broad, and I am unsure if that is for ease of reading. Do we need to do the maths ourselves for the bonuses or are the bonuses being removed? Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5579	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:19:00 - [25924] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd accuse you of empty quoting, but you're opting for empty imagination instead. Bravo. slow clap. Try to be more creative than "scrubby" next time? I demand a higher quality of troll than your skill level apparently. Scrub. That's all I got Really? REALLY? I'm disappointed in you. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 8413	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:22:00 - [25925] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd accuse you of empty quoting, but you're opting for empty imagination instead. Bravo. slow clap. Try to be more creative than "scrubby" next time? I demand a higher quality of troll than your skill level apparently. Scrub. That's all I got Really? REALLY? I'm disappointed in you. I've never pretended to be a good forum troll. I'm too good natured to be a jerk. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6272	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:26:00 - [25926] - Quote So lost in the EWAR discussion right now Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 859	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:17:00 - [25927] - Quote @ OEK https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0uAKk-PtFUgV62QANDe0lJ02Ukc-jQuhcLdwhG4J1Q/edit?pli=1#gid=18624413 See Proposed tab
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6272	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:23:00 - [25928] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: @ OEK https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0uAKk-PtFUgV62QANDe0lJ02Ukc-jQuhcLdwhG4J1Q/edit?pli=1#gid=18624413 See Proposed tab I am looking, and it is just too vague. What are the penalties? That is incredibly important. Why can the Amarr have unbeatable scans under 12 m, yet still they have the highest HP? If they add a Range Amp, what is the penalty? Are the scans still unbeatable? The water is just too muddied to see through right now. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4829	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:30:00 - [25929] - Quote A cursory glance makes it look like the scans are a tad on the powerful side. On the other hand this could be leveraged for a cloak that can actually do some **. Then again, do I want to have to rely on the cloak? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community**
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 861	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:31:00 - [25930] - Quote I agree. Too many unknowns left unspecified. Too many variables are being tweaked to predict outcome. Pretty clear on one thing though. If the values are moved forward as presented, then the Logi will replace the Recon Scout.

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6272	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:32:00 - [25931] - Quote Spademan wrote: A cursory glance makes it look like the scans are a tad on the powerful side. On the other hand this could be leveraged for a cloak that can actually do some ****. Then again, do I want to have to rely on the cloak? Exactly. Freaking cloak. Best thing I have done recently is drop the damn thing. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4829	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:35:00 - [25932] - Quote Another thing we don't know is the modules. In the thread it's been mentioned that Range amps will negatively affect both Precision and profile, while Precision mods will negatively affect range+profile, but I haven't seen by how much. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6272	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:36:00 - [25933] - Quote I have a feeling the new EWAR is going to break something. I couldn't tell you what for the life of me. And with all its added complexity, trying to balance around the broken parts is going to be a nightmare. AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T FIXED HEAVIES!!! How do they get so little of the QQ when they are broke as crap? They don't even have to make sacrifices and get reps from logis, scans from scouts. Aggravating. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 8414	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:37:00 - [25934] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: I have a feeling the new EWAR is going to break something. I couldn't tell you what for the life of me. And with all its added complexity, trying to balance around the broken parts is going to be a nightmare. AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T FIXED HEAVIES!!! How do they get so little of the QQ when they are broke as crap? They don't even have to make sacrifices and get reps from logis, scans from scouts. Aggravating. Yeah, somethings getting broken somewhere, of that there is no doubt. I'm just trying to mitigate damage anywhere possible. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6272	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:38:00 - [25935] - Quote Spademan wrote: Another thing we don't know is the modules. In the thread it's been mentioned that Range amps will negatively affect both Precision and profile, while Precision mods will negatively affect range+profile, but I haven't seen by how much. This is my issue too. The penalty being too great could be just as much a problem as it being too little. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19730	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:39:00 - [25936] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: I agree. Too many unknowns left unspecified. Too many variables are being tweaked to predict outcome. Pretty clear on one thing though. If the values are moved forward as presented, then the Logi will replace the Recon Scout. How so? Amarr scout looks to be exceptionally strong at scanning. Its scans are unavoidable while the logiscans can be avoided by all scouts. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 861	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:41:00 - [25937] - Quote Spademan wrote: Another thing we don't know is the modules. In the thread it's been mentioned that Range amps will negatively affect both Precision and profile, while Precision mods will negatively affect range+profile, but I haven't seen by how much. EWAR modules already pay less utility than brick modules. See 99.9% of low slot sales. These types of penalties will onsly serve to reinforce King HP.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 861	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:43:00 - [25938] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: I agree. Too many unknowns left unspecified. Too many variables are being tweaked to predict outcome. Pretty clear on one thing though. If the values are moved forward as presented, then the Logi will replace the Recon Scout. How so? Amarr scout looks to be exceptionally strong at scanning. Its scans are unavoidable while the logiscans can be avoided by all scouts. 18dB is all I need to keep my blob safe and Scouts honest. I can get 18dB from an AM Scout who can do little else but scan. Or I can 18dB from a Logi who generates constant WP, provides reps and EQ and revives and whatever else Logis do. Why would I ever field the AM Scout?
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6272	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:45:00 - [25939] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: I agree. Too many unknowns left unspecified. Too many variables are being tweaked to predict outcome. Pretty clear on one thing though. If the values are moved forward as presented, then the Logi will replace the Recon Scout. How so? Amarr scout looks to be exceptionally strong at scanning. Its scans are unavoidable while the logiscans can be avoided by all scouts. Unavoidable scans are not a good thing. Not with shared scanning. Not with running an Amar scout with a repper right along his Amarr Sentinel buddy. And what is the range penalty? Will it be enough? If its not enough, then even if scouts can manage to get inside the range, medium frames will be scanned at extreme ranges. Its just a big mess. I think they could have done a better job by negating that inner scanning circle. I have no problem with fall off. I have a big problem with increasing scans more than they already are. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19730	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:46:00 - [25940] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: I agree. Too many unknowns left unspecified. Too many variables are being tweaked to predict outcome. Pretty clear on one thing though. If the values are moved forward as presented, then the Logi will replace the Recon Scout. How so? Amarr scout looks to be exceptionally strong at scanning. Its scans are unavoidable while the logiscans can be avoided by all scouts. 18dB is all I need to keep my blob safe and Scouts honest. I can get 18dB from an AM Scout who can do little else but scan. Or I can 18dB from a Logi who generates constant WP, provides reps and EQ and revives and whatever else Logis do. Why would I ever field the AM Scout? Because the Amscout can get 13dB scans and laugh at all attempts to evade its scans? The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.

Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4829	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:46:00 - [25941] - Quote Spotted from the spreadsheet. No Directional arrow on minimap. Thoughts? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Llast 326 An Arkhos 5647	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:46:00 - [25942] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: I agree. Too many unknowns left unspecified. Too many variables are being tweaked to predict outcome. Pretty clear on one thing though. If the values are moved forward as presented, then the Logi will replace the Recon Scout. How so? Amarr scout looks to be exceptionally strong at scanning. Its scans are unavoidable while the logiscans can be avoided by all scouts. 18dB is all I need to keep my blob safe and Scouts honest. I can get 18dB from an AM Scout who can do little else but scan. Or I can 18dB from a Logi who generates constant WP, provides reps and EQ and revives and whatever else Logis do. Why would I ever field the AM Scout? To stack HP and Assault MOAR Ladders
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 864	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:49:00 - [25943] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: I agree. Too many unknowns left unspecified. Too many variables are being tweaked to predict outcome. Pretty clear on one thing though. If the values are moved forward as presented, then the Logi will replace the Recon Scout. How so? Amarr scout looks to be exceptionally strong at scanning. Its scans are unavoidable while the logiscans can be avoided by all scouts. 18dB is all I need to keep my blob safe and Scouts honest. I can get 18dB from an AM Scout who can do little else but scan. Or I can 18dB from a Logi who generates constant WP, provides reps and EQ and revives and whatever else Logis do. Why would I ever field the AM Scout? Because the Amscout can get 13dB scans and laugh at all attempts to evade its scans? To protect against the off chance that a 250-350HP 3x damped Scout might actually injure my blob? No thanks. I'll take the Logi and my free orbital strikes, please.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6274	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:49:00 - [25944] - Quote Spademan wrote: Spotted from the spreadsheet. No Directional arrow on minimap. Thoughts? Makes sense if I pick up a medium frame. Doesn't make sense for a Sentinel. We keep buffing and buffing these guys indirectly. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6274	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:56:00 - [25945] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: I agree. Too many unknowns left unspecified. Too many variables are being tweaked to predict outcome. Pretty clear on one thing though. If the values are moved forward as presented, then the Logi will replace the Recon Scout. How so? Amarr scout looks to be exceptionally strong at scanning. Its scans are unavoidable while the logiscans can be avoided by all scouts. 18dB is all I need to keep my blob safe and Scouts honest. I can get 18dB from an AM Scout who can do little else but scan. Or I can 18dB from a Logi who generates constant WP, provides reps and EQ and revives and whatever else Logis do. Why would I ever field the AM Scout? To stack HP and Assault Seriously. If Range Amps have too great a precision penalty, they can just stack armor instead. No need to dampen if your scans beat the range of Shotguns and Knives. You don't need to hide from someone that you can see, and have greater HP than. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 8415	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:09:00 - [25946] - Quote I'm going to hell. I'm so going to hell for laughing at this. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Bayeth Mal Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1982	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:29:00 - [25947] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: I would just like to reiterate before I take the time to read over the EWAR numbers that taking away the knife bonus on the minja will just make the Gal scout a better knifer (because superior low slots). You would have to give Minmatar super duper hack bonuses, or superior than Gallente Dampening bonuses (the latter of which I certainly don't recommend) in order to even circumstantially give people a reason to run Minmatar over Gallente. Otherwise, Gal Scouts could just throw on a Code Breaker (or have a fit just with Code Breakers) and they would be a good enough substitute for hacking that it would be insane to throw all that SP in a Minmatar scouts for so little marginal benefit. Minjas have been overly d*cked over enough as it is. I haven't even gotten to what might be Minja killing EWAR changes, and you are already talking about making them more meaningless. Absolutely boggles my mind. By this same logic isn't the Cal a terrible scout? What with their oh so terrible 2 low slots. They sure don't seem to be struggling. We'll bang, OK?
Bayeth Mal Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1982	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:35:00 - [25948] - Quote Spademan wrote: Spotted from the spreadsheet. No Directional arrow on minimap. Thoughts? It's going to make me less informed. Therefore every encounter has the potential to take incoming fire. I only have one option for mitigation of that event... HP We'll bang, OK?
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4830	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:44:00 - [25949] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: One Eyed King wrote: I would just like to reiterate before I take the time to read over the EWAR numbers that taking away the knife bonus on the minja will just make the Gal scout a better knifer (because superior low slots). You would have to give Minmatar super duper hack bonuses, or superior than Gallente Dampening bonuses (the latter of which I certainly don't recommend) in order to even circumstantially give people a reason to run Minmatar over Gallente. Otherwise, Gal Scouts could just throw on a Code Breaker (or have a fit just with Code Breakers) and they would be a good enough substitute for hacking that it would be insane to throw all that SP in a Minmatar scouts for so little marginal benefit. Minjas have been overly dcked over enough as it is. I haven't even gotten to what might be Minja killing EWAR changes, and you are already talking about making them more meaningless. Absolutely boggles my mind. By this same logic isn't the Cal a terrible scout? What with their oh so terrible 2 low slots. They sure don't seem to be struggling. I'm thinking the difference is the bonus to damps. Also One Eye, if I'm not mistaken, there's more official whisperings of codebreakers to highs. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community*
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4830	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:46:00 - [25950] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: Spademan wrote: Spotted from the spreadsheet. No Directional arrow on minimap. Thoughts? It's going to make me less informed. Therefore every encounter has the potential to take incoming fire. I only have one option for mitigation of that event... HP And what of a scenario where both parties see each other but not direction? Any difference? (I'm thinking not) I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community



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