DUST Search - Scout Registry / Killboard

voidfaction wrote:

hfderrtgvcd wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Appia Nappia wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Assumption:
Assault Lite is making a comeback.

Proposition:
Double the movement penalty of plates on Scouts.

Who is opposed? Who is in favor?

Opposed. Dude, get the **** off your high horse. If they play the game differently than the way you do just let them. They're already easy to pick off.

The assumption above is that Assault Lite is making a comeback.
If the assumption proves false, then we needn't worry.
If the assumption proves true, then we'd do well to have a plan.

The only reason why Assault Lite would make a comeback is if slayers determine that its as good as -- if not better than -- the new Assault. If the stats indicate that this is the case then we must address it, whether or not doing so adds to or subtracts from our individual playstyles.

I propose that doubling movement penalty on plates would be a better response to Assault Lite than the shoehorning and standardization that'd likely follow implementation of efficacy-based bonuses. Not to mention the lack the consensus we'd face in trying to decide which Scout gets which bonus.

What would her highness propose?

TL;DR: If there is a balance problem, and we could solve that problem with one small adjustment, why would we not?

The only scouts I commonly see using rifles in pc are cal scouts, and a plate nerf wouldn't really effect them.

I can do better with a shotgun than I can with an AR so does that mean when I use an AR is makes my scout have more armor?
Now I'm really confused. Adding a rifle gives you more armor? What does the rifle have to do with armor stacking scouts?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Immortal John Ripper 24675	Posted - 2014.09.18 01:23:00 - [22081] - Quote voidfaction wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Assumption: Assault Lite is making a comeback. Proposition: Double the movement penalty of plates on Scouts. Who is opposed? Who is in favor? Opposed. Dude, get the **** off your high horse. If they play the game differently than the way you do just let them. They're already easy to pick off. The assumption above is that Assault Lite is making a comeback. If the assumption proves false, then we needn't worry. If the assumption proves true, then we'd do well to have a plan. The only reason why Assault Lite would make a comeback is if slayers determine that its as good as -- if not better than -- the new Assault. If the stats indicate that this is the case then we must address it, whether or not doing so adds to or subtracts from our individual playstyles. I propose that doubling movement penalty on plates would be a better response to Assault Lite than the shoehorning and standardization that'd likely follow implementation of efficacy-based bonuses. Not to mention the lack the consensus we'd face in trying to decide which Scout gets which bonus. What would her highness propose? TL;DR: If there is a balance problem, and we could solve that problem with one small adjustment, why would we not? The only scouts I commonly see using rifles in pc are cal scouts, and a plate nerf wouldn't really effect them. I can do better with a shotgun than I can with an AR so does that mean when I use an AR is makes my scout have more armor? Now I'm really confused. Adding a rifle gives you more armor? What does the rifle have to do with armor stacking scouts? I would assume that the range bonus would be a great help. With a shotgun you have to get up in their face and fire point blank. I have played with a standard scout / standard assault rifle before and gotten really good scores with it but I never tried such a combo in pc. It is a different play style than a shotgunning scout but I know it is viable. In my build I was squishy but I wasn't overly aggresive. I played more defensively, laying down remotes, running around and giving support where needed in a flash. I was easy to kill even with plates but just try not to be the center of attention and a scout ar build works fine. And to me the speed bonus > additonal plates. It was a much greater help to me since I was already playing defensively. Stacking armor would be much better suited to a person who gets shot at alot and likes to be the center of attention. Donating all scammed isk to needy Matari. Tell me your sad story for it.
General John Ripper 24695	Posted - 2014.09.18 01:23:00 - [22082] - Quote voidfaction wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Assumption: Assault Lite is making a comeback. Proposition: Double the movement penalty of plates on Scouts. Who is opposed? Who is in favor? Opposed. Dude, get the **** off your high horse. If they play the game differently than the way you do just let them. They're already easy to pick off. The assumption above is that Assault Lite is making a comeback. If the assumption proves false, then we needn't worry. If the assumption proves true, then we'd do well to have a plan. The only reason why Assault Lite would make a comeback is if slayers determine that its as good as -- if not better than -- the new Assault. If the stats indicate that this is the case then we must address it, whether or not doing so adds to or subtracts from our individual playstyles. I propose that doubling movement penalty on plates would be a better response to Assault Lite than the shoehorning and standardization that'd likely follow implementation of efficacy-based bonuses. Not to mention the lack the consensus we'd face in trying to decide which Scout gets which bonus. What would her highness propose? TL;DR: If there is a balance problem, and we could solve that problem with one small adjustment, why would we not? The only scouts I commonly see using rifles in pc are cal scouts, and a plate nerf wouldn't really effect them. I can do better with a shotgun than I can with an AR so does that mean when I use an AR is makes my scout have more armor? Now I'm really confused. Adding a rifle gives you more armor? What does the rifle have to do with armor stacking scouts? I would assume that the range bonus would be a great help. With a shotgun you have to get up in their face and fire point blank. I have played with a standard scout / standard assault rifle before and gotten really good scores with it but I never tried such a combo in pc. It is a different play style than a shotgunning scout but I know it is viable. In my build I was squishy but I wasn't overly aggresive. I played more defensively, laying down remotes, running around and giving support where needed in a flash. I was easy to kill even with plates but just try not to be the center of attention and a scout ar build works fine. And to me the speed bonus > additonal plates. It was a much greater help to me since I was already playing defensively. Stacking armor would be much better suited to a person who gets shot at alot and likes to be the center of attention. Donating all scammed isk to needy Matari. Tell me your sad story for it.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1179	Posted - 2014.09.18 01:58:00 - [22083] - Quote voidfaction wrote: I can do better with a shotgun than I can with an AR so does that mean when I use an AR is makes my scout have more armor? Now I'm really confused. Adding a rifle gives you more armor? What does the rifle have to do with armor stacking scouts? Caldari suits are natural shield tanks. They have very few low slots. If they're staking HP, they typically run shield extenders, not plates. Plate nerf would not effect them. Obviously. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
voidfaction Nos Nothi 532	Posted - 2014.09.18 02:37:00 - [22084] - Quote Gal Black Eagle Scout has 2 light weapons and one is a rifle. commando or assault lite? If an assault stacks HP to match a commando does that make them a commando lite? They can do it and be faster with better precision and lower profile only missing 1 lightweapon slot. NERF ASSAULTS, lol
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4966	Posted - 2014.09.18 02:49:00 - [22085] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: voidfaction wrote: I can do better with a shotgun than I can with an AR so does that mean when I use an AR is makes my scout have more armor? Now I'm really confused. Adding a rifle gives you more armor? What does the rifle have to do with armor stacking scouts? Caldari suits are natural shield tanks. They have very few low slots. If they're staking HP, they typically run shield extenders, not plates. Plate nerf would not effect them. Obviously. I've bumped into a few dual-tanked CalScouts since Charlie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okhys0JvHmc Though heavily armored GalScouts seem to be more common. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
zerllom stabtard Nos Nothi 31	Posted - 2014.09.18 03:08:00 - [22086] - Quote Update in the privates. Edit: Due to detailing, I didn't post the info yet.. I will re fondle my privates here when I actually have an update. sorry. ETA- 15. gimme a break I'm making chicken pot loaf.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4467	Posted - 2014.09.18 03:12:00 - [22087] - Quote zerllom stabtard wrote: Update in the privates. Look DownstairsGÇª or Circumcision? KRRROOOOOOM
zerllom stabtard Nos Nothi 31	Posted - 2014.09.18 03:15:00 - [22088] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: zerllom stabtard wrote: Update in the privates. Look DownstairsGÇª or Circumcision? don't make me link news stories.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1181	Posted - 2014.09.18 03:15:00 - [22089] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: I've bumped into a few dual-tanked CalScouts since Charlie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okhys0JvHmc Though heavily armored GalScouts seem to be more common. Before Charlie, I saw plated Wardens wanting to maximize their precision - it just wasn't common enough for what I'd call "typical". Exceptions proving the rule, so to speak. Been dicking about with my heavy alt, Blood-soaked Strumpet again. Actually started going positive in G-I sentinel with ADV plates and HMG. Feels weird. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4967	Posted - 2014.09.18 03:31:00 - [22090] - Quote Ugly ole' Dren Shotgun perfectly matches the Scout A/1! Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

zerllom stabtard Nos Nothi 32	Posted - 2014.09.18 03:38:00 - [22091] - Quote OK updated. #soreprivates
Appia Nappia 1067	Posted - 2014.09.18 04:18:00 - [22092] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: voidfaction wrote: I can do better with a shotgun than I can with an AR so does that mean when I use an AR is makes my scout have more armor? Now I'm really confused. Adding a rifle gives you more armor? What does the rifle have to do with armor stacking scouts? Caldari suits are natural shield tanks. They have very few low slots. If they're staking HP, they typically run shield extenders, not plates. Plate nerf would not effect them. Obviously. I've bumped into a few dual-tanked CalScouts since Charlie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okhys0JvHmc Though heavily armored GalScouts seem to be more common. A Gallente suit with plates?! That's impossible! Unheard of! How disgusting! That is offensive. Gallente suits should never be allowed to fit armor plates. So very tired
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6957	Posted - 2014.09.18 04:39:00 - [22093] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: First Ambush of the Day ... Me + 15 names I've not seen before vs Kaizuki sniper, ss modan and a handful of 1UP Let me help you with my Mu, Scotty. You've apparently mistaken me for someone else. :: Sees Bolas + HAV :: :: Leaves Battle :: Next match had much better matchmaking. And the next! Update: About 10 matches in now. High percentage of good fights. They fixed matchmaking? Also, when is the million clone event? Might hop back on for SP sake I got kicked out of the State War Academy for jury-rigging a contact nade launcher to my Rail Rifle WINMATAR!
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 479	Posted - 2014.09.18 05:22:00 - [22094] - Quote Million clone event starts friday and I believe it ends sunday Stabby-stabber extraordinaire
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2812	Posted - 2014.09.18 06:20:00 - [22095] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Million clone event starts friday and I believe it ends sunday Now with link! See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2812	Posted - 2014.09.18 06:21:00 - [22096] - Quote Speaking of matchmaking, I hope y'all will let me know how the new system is shaking out for you (inquiring devs want to know, so I'm counting on you bastards to keep giving me ~~stuff to make myself look good~~useful and relevant feedback Cheers, Cross EDIT: Yes I am back reading to see what was already said, but I figure impressions may flux somewhat given a little bit more exposure. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2812	Posted - 2014.09.18 06:27:00 - [22097] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Bayeth Mal wrote: Addendum: Let me put it this way, I'm giving serious consideration to not bothering with the million clone challenge. If I do I'll log in, do my 10 matches and log out. I already don't bother logging in for the daily SP That's what the scout and heavy spam makes dust like in general at the mo. My sig defines 99% of you. Oh hey, impotent nerd rage, that's a new one. But yeah, there's been many of us calling for a solution to the fire from cloak issue. As I put it: Bayeth Mal wrote: The firing from cloak exploit is to Shotgunning what the Redline is to Sniping. And as such I put away my Shotgun shortly after 1.8 came out. Started feeling like a scrub weapon. Sadly there is a tech issue in the way of the cloak + shotty fix, methods for addressing the current snag are being explored. FWIW See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2812	Posted - 2014.09.18 06:29:00 - [22098] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Spademan wrote: So how's this going? I'm going to check it out later, see how good it is. Fck yes! Now if only I had more time to play games... Good thing winter is around the corner. Winter is coming* Yep, I had too, I know this means I'm weak, my only defense is that I caught the infection long ago when there were only books so it has had quite awhile to entrench since then. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 963	Posted - 2014.09.18 06:44:00 - [22099] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Assumption: Assault Lite is making a comeback. Proposition: Double the movement penalty of plates on Scouts. Who is opposed? Who is in favor? In favour ... of making assault suits do assaulting better than scout suits. Can't believe this reasoning still needs to be said. Those of you with some sort of violent opposition to balance - why? Do you have other reasons (read: ulterior motives) to keep things as they are? It can't be you don't have enough skill points to skill back into assault since you went FotM scout can it? You're not idiots and you must understand this - you're just choosing to ignore it. sharpens blades You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Appia Nappia 1067	Posted - 2014.09.18 08:10:00 - [22100] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Bayeth Mal wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: That's what the scout and heavy spam makes dust like in general at the mo. My sig defines 99% of you. Oh hey, impotent nerd rage, that's a new one. But yeah, there's been many of us calling for a solution to the fire from cloak issue. As I put it: The firing from cloak exploit is to Shotgunning what the Redline is to Sniping. And as such I put away my Shotgun shortly after 1.8 came out. Started feeling like a scrub weapon. Sadly there is a tech issue in the way of the cloak + shotty fix, methods for addressing the current snag are being explored. FWIW Dude, I'd love to see all the bitching and pissy little twerps complain about stealth vandles and Bladedancers on the Destiny forums, buit they're basically the same format as reddit so I don't really wouldn't want to touch that with a ten foot pole. They aren't invisible. If a cloaked suit in dust is giving you problems, you should probably just quit due to the fact you'll never get any better. Pub-tastic failure wrote: Can't believe this reasoning still needs to be said. Those of you with some sort of violent opposition to balance - why? Do you have other reasons (read: ulterior motives) to keep things as they are? It can't be you don't have enough skill points to skill back into assault since you went FotM scout can it? You're not idiots and you must understand this - you're just choosing to ignore it. check out the myriad of places I've said it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2215389#post2215389 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1958697#post1958697 (Props to our lost brother Marauder here) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1861561#post1861561 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2276997#post2276997 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2180578#post2180578 With the power creep in the form of HP, the shotgun just keeps getting worse. It was fine when a second shot could kill from within optimal range, but when there are Assault suits out there that will survive 2 shots from optimal and a 3rd shot from 10m away Tell ya what, I'll take an armor plate nerf to scouts the same time the Allotek Breach Shotgun and OHKO a proto Assault Suit. So very tired

Bayeth Mal Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1536	Posted - 2014.09.18 11:56:00 - [22101] - Quote Speaking purely in terms of principles, what's wrong with a light assault? My tankiest proto build gal is 550, thats pretty tough for a pub but then, if I was running around as a proto assault I'm still dangerous. But in PC those HP just evaporate under fire. I've seen Min scouts running more HP than that. Lets go back to yesteryear of 1.7 and prior. I once encountered a dampened HMG sentinel. He was with a squad, his squad moved in took an objective and moved on, leaving him to defend it. I discovered him when I walked around a corner and got wasted. Tricky, I lol'd and came back and RE'd him. Clever "outside the box" thinking. In principle there's nothing wrong with doing that sort of thing. The problem really occurs when you're better than the suit that is specialised for that role (if that heavy could get under proto scans). e.g. a dampened/kin cat assault being a better scout than a scout which I also encountered back then. Can a proto scout get better HP than a Proto assault now? When I last played (a while ago) assaults were making a resurgence and >1,000hp assaults were fairly common. When not Shotgunning I used to run a RR and use it to flank (literally the build was called "Flanker Wanker" in my fittings). Doing that you have to accept you're going to take return fire. With the RR nerf and all these HP buffs I can be most of the way through my clip before they're down (sometime's have to disengage because 1 clip was not enough and now I've lost the element of surprise). Many people will just see the hit indicator and fire back out in the open, if I'm running <200hp I'm a mild annoyance at worst and at best can just collect a bunch of assists. Is that not a "legit" role as a scout? I know there are some "paper thin" purists out there and fair enough. I've done it, it can be fun. I've also done the Speed Tanked Sentinel as well, nothing wrong with that, but if I could out sprint a scout that would be wrong. It's not the principle that's the problem, Dust is about customisation and being creative with your fits. The buff to Ferroscale fitting I think has been great, and I only use those, so a change to speed wouldn't impact me (not that I play anyway). We'll bang, OK?
Varoth Drac Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 226	Posted - 2014.09.18 13:50:00 - [22102] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: I've bumped into a few dual-tanked CalScouts since Charlie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okhys0JvHmc Though heavily armored GalScouts seem to be more common. I think part of the issue is that passive scanning us very effective for a lone wolf play style. I have made a fit very similar to the fit in your video but using a min assault: Assault light For comparison here is my recreation of saxonmish's scout : Assault light scout I think that people should stop moaning about scout EWAR abilities and fit EWAR on their suits. In this example, comparing the two suits, the assault does suffer a bit from a larger hitbox and being vulnerable to Gal scout scans (without precision), less (but still good) scan range and a bit less hp. It does have it's weapon bonus though. I suggest maybe buffing range amps. This would allow med suits to fit for passive scanning if they want to. Good as long as it doesn't further marginalise active scanners.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1183	Posted - 2014.09.18 14:00:00 - [22103] - Quote When I look through the scope and see scouts running upwards of 800 total HP and still running quickly enough to make leading my shot difficult, knowing that even with Prof3 Charge and 3x complex damage mod plus 6% from the suit I'm not going to kill him, it's off. It's not a 'light assault' anymore, it's an 'assault with smaller hitbox/worse hit detection/secont EQ slot'. I'm regularly seeing ak.0 assaults with 100-ish shield and 790-ish armor. Gal and Amarr scouts are hitting those hp numbers. Cal scouts at their highest that I've seen are around 600. Minjas don't know what HP is so they're not guilty in the least, but the rest of you non-Minmatar scouts got some splaining to do. (Not really - Rattati went to nerf the slayer scout by nerfing the cloak and only managed to make the STD and ADV cloaks useless for their short durations, ignoring our input that said the way to stop FotM slayer scouts was to nerf scouts' use of plates. Told you so, Rattati.) Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4972	Posted - 2014.09.18 14:09:00 - [22104] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: Speaking purely in terms of principles, what's wrong with a light assault? There is nothing wrong with running plates (or anything else) on a Scout suit. I agree without reservation that customization is key to Dust and so it should remain. We do have a problem, however, if/when a particular configuration or item proves to be OP. We can't know whether or not something is OP until Rattati tells us that its OP. What we can do is keep an eye on available indicators and plan in advance of potential problems. Available Indicators * Are we seeing lots of it? * Are slayers slaying with it? * Are the Forums full of complaints about it? I believe that brick-tanked Scouts meet these criteria, and I believe we should be thinking contingency before Rattati pops in to say "Hey, your sht is broken ... ideas on how to fix?"* Just in case. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Immortal John Ripper 24701	Posted - 2014.09.18 14:12:00 - [22105] - Quote 1 question. Do you guys still have your like button? Donating all scammed isk to needy Matari. Tell me your sad story for it.
General John Ripper 24710	Posted - 2014.09.18 14:12:00 - [22106] - Quote 1 question. Do you guys still have your like button? Or did they just take mine away again... I didn't even do anything this time! Edit: Well I guess that answers that question. I would like your post if I could but CCP nerfed my like button and took it away. :(
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 965	Posted - 2014.09.18 14:50:00 - [22107] - Quote Appia Nappia wrote: Pub-tastic failure wrote: Can't believe this reasoning still needs to be said. Those of you with some sort of violent opposition to balance - why? Do you have other reasons (read: ulterior motives) to keep things as they are? It can't be you don't have enough skill points to skill back into assault since you went FotM scout can it? You're not idiots and you must understand this - you're just choosing to ignore it. check out the myriad of places I've said it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2215389#post2215389 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1958697#post1958697 (Props to our lost brother Marauder here) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1861561#post1861561 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2276997#post2276997 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2180578#post2180578 With the power creep in the form of HP, the shotgun just keeps getting worse. It was fine when a second shot could kill from within optimal range, but when there are Assault suits out there that will survive 2 shots from optimal and a 3rd shot from 10m away Tell ya what, I'll take an armor plate nerf to scouts the same time the Allotek Breach Shotgun and OHKO a proto Assault Suit. I'm trying to understand your argument, but reading all the links to other stuff you posted, that I have to read and understand out of context, isn't helping me. You've also linked to discussion from pre-1.8. That and the pissy attitude...guess I should've expected it but regardless, it doesn't help you, and it doesn't help me. You've never done it directly to me before and I guess I'm a little butt-hurt to be directly on the receiving end ;-) I suspect you probably don't care because I don't get it and you do, and you're not the sort to be patient with ppl and explain things to them in simpler terms. That's ok but for the love of god, don't be an arse about it. Anyway, because you're a scoutly bastard and I love the scoutly bastards, let me ask my question perhaps more specifically, in case you've answered a different one. How is a scout suit that can brick-tank with penalties small enough that they assault better than an assault suit balanced? Or, are you saying they can't do that better? You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6962	Posted - 2014.09.18 15:15:00 - [22108] - Quote Saying that running less than 450HP is impossible is false. I've never had more than 430, and I still manage to get kills in PC More armor just means you win tie-breakers, such as when you shoot each other at the same time and you win because you can tank the shot. If you rely on tanking that shot to win engagements, you REALLY need to improve your shotgun game. I got kicked out of the State War Academy for jury-rigging a contact nade launcher to my Rail Rifle WINMATAR!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4972	Posted - 2014.09.18 15:34:00 - [22109] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: How is a scout suit that can brick-tank with penalties small enough that they assault better than an assault suit balanced? Or, are you saying they can't do that better? For the record, I don't think that this is the case. I suspect that face-to-face, an uparmored Proto Scout would kick the arse of a Std or even Adv Assaults, but Proto Scout vs Proto Assault now favors Assault by wide margin. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4468	Posted - 2014.09.18 17:40:00 - [22110] - Quote Did Delta drop while I was at work? KRRROOOOOOM



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