Mollerz,
If you must sh!t in the bar, would you mind doing so downstairs?

Mollerz,
If you must sh!t in the bar, would you mind doing so downstairs?

Read the past 3 or 4 pages.
I've unblocked you, by the way :-)

Dude.

Rattati just came in here and told us that he wants to give AM, GA, and CA one bonus each, and that he wants to make Minmatar faster. By my math, we're no longer looking at 2 bonuses compared to 3.

GA: Profile
CA: Precision
AM: Range
MN: Hacks, Knives, Speed

Add Active Dampening bonus to MN for an even 4:1?
We can't sell that, Ghost.

June 28th:
No way am I plowing through 813 pages to find the answer, so I will just post the question directly here.

If it can be done, what do scouts think of passive scans not being shared in squads, only active scans. If that is technically possible, maybe we can work on some of the scan/damp mechanics in a completely different way and CA scout won't be the be all and end all it is right now due to that.

That could lead to different hunting playstyles of various sig/scan profiles instead of the wallhack circle of death.

Independently of any ewar changes we mean to boost Amarr and Min Scouts in some way, not major way and also buff Assault, not nerf Heavies nor Scouts. If we can do that and not have to hit CA scout with nerfs, then that is our preferred path.

All good feedback appreciated
R

On June 29th:
Read the answers to my question, really happy with the detailed answers.

Also read the Barbershop Scout Polish spreadsheet, obviously well thought out, presented, and much appreciated, definitely many takeaways for us there.

Thanks for now

Asked about fall damage reduced for light frames:
The things you don't expect to be asked Smile, we can definitely look at the formula.

On July 6th:
What do you feel about Amarr having the range, Gallente having dampeners, CA having precision and MM get better at hacking and running.

I am not too comfortable with giving the CA both range and precision supremacy, I believe you have to make a choice.

On July 7th:
OK, so Nova Knives weren't mentioned because they were not part of the question...

We want to make the stronger and cheaper PG wise though, as well as KinCats and Codebreakers.

Yes this is without removing Passive shared, because that is not a triviality it seems.

And yes, we are looking intensely at efficacy module bonuses, it's a bigger change so we want more time to do that right.

We are also hoping to buff the assault to get slayers back where they belong.

There is a draconian way to gently prod slayers out of the scouts, fitting penalties as a role (just like fitting bonus for a scout) on plates.

What does this crowd say about that?

On clarification:
The fitting penalty is just "If scout then plate PG/CPU cost multiplied with (100%+fitting penalty %)"

After being asked being asked to change after assauts are fixed, and questioned if it was the right way to do it:
This is limiting in a gentle way, as you can still fit them. I can come up with all kinds of lore reasons why a scout couldn't brick tank, or a heavy can't use sidearms because of fat fingers. I do not want to restrict options like Sentinels can only fit Heavy Weapons, but I do want to balance the game so all roles and dropsuits can flourish.

After some more discussion:
Let's see if we need all those changes at once, and I disagree with the hammer and scout theory, scouts were incredibly overpowered. We can perhaps pull back some of the cloak changes once we get slayers back into assault. And I agree with Sentinel capacity (CPU+PG), that needs to come down in the next hotfix or two.


Those are all Rattati's posts. you really miss out of context. like half the posts since june 26th have been discussion stemming from his visit

Let's tackle that flatulence, piece by piece:

Wrong: Cloaking is fixed now ...
Reality: Cloak was rendered largely ineffective for Scouts with insufficient lows to stack damps.

Wrong: A delay before you switch weapons might be fine ... [snip]
Reality: Fire-from-cloak is no longer at issue; weapon switch speed has nothing to do with cloak.

Wrong: No one likes a shot gunner scout.
Reality: If you're over 500HP, he could've used a Fine Rifle to kill you faster at far less risk and greater range.

Wrong: Im tired of my hacking miny getting slayed by calds all the time.
Reality: The CalScout's squadmates pose far greater threat.

Wrong: If you want to shoot people all do go play cod...
Reality: Aren't you the guy who complains about tanks no longer being invincible?

And like monkeys writing Shakespeare ...
Reality: assault need more attention they get replaced by logis and commands and heck even scouts all the time.
Reality: assault need more attention they get replaced by logis and commands and heck even scouts all the time.

Wrong: I know you think scouts are fine ... [snip]
Reality: Name one person here who thinks that Scouts are fine.

Wrong: Now you cald slayers can get on here and say go " QQ " somewhere else ... [snip]
Reality: You're in the wrong bar if you're looking "slayer" CalScouts who wish to remain OP.

Wrong: [snip] ... you should have to take off that 400 shield ... to light up the whole map like a Christmas tree.
Reality: Wardens* run 2-4 precision enhancers and 1-2 range extenders; they have little room for HP.

*These are exceptionally good at detecting and beating back droves of idiot darkspawn. They also excel at thinning the ranks of FoTM chasing scrubbery.

*Wanders out of the maze of the Barbershop breathless and a little disoriented*

Well, I finally found what I was looking for.

Haerr made the point I was trying to make, only better of course.

I still like the spreadsheet that we worked on, but I am not the one to say whether or not that would be viable in PC.

Also, in case you were wondering, we knocked out about 70 pages in less than a month. I am pretty sure I passed several corpses in my wanderings.

I agree with Haerr on most everything except 1 huge issue. I can't stand his formatting.

does that mean I should be asking for innate 45m range for my gal scout since we are being reduced to 1 bonus and only have 1 innate HP/s bonus?

Only 1/hp a second repair and the ability to maintain passive invisibility while using a standard suit? Quick, someone buff the Gal, they're about to become unplayable!

Seriously Void, advocate for what ever you want. But maybe consider balance class wide when you do so instead of focusing on one suit over another.

The Minmatar and Amarr are underperforming across the board, and CCP has the usage stats to back it up. They need a fix to even out scout usage between all 4 racial variants. If you don't have any suggestions to help with that, then work with the rest of us to keep the Gal viable while we try to get the Min and Amarr get up to speed.

I don't know why I felt the need to post this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfxdbXb8GZo

I am. Min already have more innate bonuses than all the scouts and still wanting 4 racial bonuses to go with it. I mean come on. cal is about to be stick with 1 precision and what? shield recharge, lol amar what about them.
Do you think of anything other than the poor poor minmatar.
oh cry min has to use 3 dampeners and a proto cloak. cry cry cry
cal with pricision can hide from nothing and is forced to stay in a corner with a squad guarding them. min scout want to be the do all solo class. yeah i run gal for the dampening nothing stoping anyone else from doing the same. I would be in a min suit if they would drop the STUPID single weapon bonus and I would run it with 3 dampeners. when im in my cal scout i run 2 dampeners and I dont cry cry cry like a minmatar because i cant hide from tac-net because I chose to use it knowing its weakness to tac-net

I am. Min already have more innate bonuses than all the scouts and still wanting 4 racial bonuses to go with it. I mean come on. cal is about to be stick with 1 precision and what? shield recharge, lol amar what about them.
Do you think of anything other than the poor poor minmatar.
oh cry min has to use 3 dampeners and a proto cloak. cry cry cry
cal with pricision can hide from nothing and is forced to stay in a corner with a squad guarding them. min scout want to be the do all solo class. yeah i run gal for the dampening nothing stoping anyone else from doing the same. I would be in a min suit if they would drop the STUPID single weapon bonus and I would run it with 3 dampeners. when im in my cal scout i run 2 dampeners and I dont cry cry cry like a minmatar because i cant hide from tac-net because I chose to use it knowing its weakness to tac-net

So what are your suggestions for scout balance? How do you think we can make the Amarr viable? How do you see the suggested changes to the Min unbalancing scouts? Do you beleive that the current innate bonuses create an imbalance? If so, what would you change?

And finally, have you made any suggestions for improving scouts, either for individual suits or as a class, or have you just complained about people trying to better the Minmatar?

Here a sample of what I've put up in the last couple of weeks.
Advocating for scouts as a whole for class balance
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2226172#post2226172
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2223233#post2223233
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2245128#post2245128
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2239416#post2239416
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2234416#post2234416
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2233126#post2233126

Advicating for Assault buffs
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=163462
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2236189#post2236189

Advicating for Amarr buffs
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2223265#post2223265
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2223344#post2223344
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2226499#post2226499

Arguments for changes to the Minmatar scout
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2234298#post2234298
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2223291#post2223291

Feel free to join the discussion.

Ghost has had the best idea for making min scout useful in PC.
bonus to cloak dampening at the cost of a losing less useful PC bonus for NK's
That would translate into better for Pubs as it would make STD suits easier to avoid scans since they are unable to run 3 dampeners. What good are NK's if you can't get into melee range?
I am not against Min scout getting buffs/fixes as it seems. I want to lvl it back to proto badly because I like the slot layout, innate hacking, speed, stamina/recharge, and shield/recharge. I Like the hacking bonus (would be better in high slot) but the one bonus that just kills it is the NK. As many min scouts have said here min scout is getting killed because of the shared tac-net. Yes they have choice to run 3x dampeners with a proto suit but what about in STD and ADV suits? the NK bonus is not helping them get into melee range in those suits so what good is that mega dmg bonus to min scout not in a proto suit if you cant get into range to use it? buff the NK's and make them a SCOUT weapon not just a Min scout weapon. They are not even a Min weapon but they are the pros at using them, lol
Don't ask to buff Min scout and expect me to just sit back and not give my opinion because I want to have a reason to lvl it up. I know what makes it weak and I don't just want to buff the proto suit for PC. I want it to be as useful as my gal and cal at STD as that is what I use 90% of the time. STD cal scout is pointless to run a dampener more so than the STD min scout I will add. Again Cal is good for standing in corners with squad guarding. Not really what one would call scouting. Guess that is why I use mine for sniping.

dude.. I am sorry but I am going to have to say your vote is null and voidfaction on matters considering the minja estate. Please, have unlimited fun in the upstairs VIP of the bar. We have only the purest red jar, as much as you can partake (and feel free- we have a complimentary vomitorium within easy reach). We also have the finest pleasure clones with a myriad of options made to order courtesy of an unwitting yet prominent Amarrian Sentinel. Free of charge, of course.


Just STFU about the minja

To many links hurts head (dies)

Ghost has had the best idea for making min scout useful in PC.
bonus to cloak dampening at the cost of a losing less useful PC bonus for NK's
That would translate into better for Pubs as it would make STD suits easier to avoid scans since they are unable to run 3 dampeners. What good are NK's if you can't get into melee range?
I am not against Min scout getting buffs/fixes as it seems. I want to lvl it back to proto badly because I like the slot layout, innate hacking, speed, stamina/recharge, and shield/recharge. I Like the hacking bonus (would be better in high slot) but the one bonus that just kills it is the NK. As many min scouts have said here min scout is getting killed because of the shared tac-net. Yes they have choice to run 3x dampeners with a proto suit but what about in STD and ADV suits? the NK bonus is not helping them get into melee range in those suits so what good is that mega dmg bonus to min scout not in a proto suit if you cant get into range to use it? buff the NK's and make them a SCOUT weapon not just a Min scout weapon. They are not even a Min weapon but they are the pros at using them, lol
Don't ask to buff Min scout and expect me to just sit back and not give my opinion because I want to have a reason to lvl it up. I know what makes it weak and I don't just want to buff the proto suit for PC. I want it to be as useful as my gal and cal at STD as that is what I use 90% of the time. STD cal scout is pointless to run a dampener more so than the STD min scout I will add. Again Cal is good for standing in corners with squad guarding. Not really what one would call scouting. Guess that is why I use mine for sniping.