Can a normal SG take a heavy/killer bee down quick enough?

mollerz, bad scout. bad. *bops with newspaper* Gallente Scouts do not use Active Scanners *wags finger.*
You've got passive scan range of 27m and change. the next 2 levels get you to 36. use the low slots for a dampener and a range amp. use high slots for damage mods. Win.

lol, but seriously Shield tanking is very good for long range engagements while armor tanks are for that up close and personal "Bruiser" style. While Passive Scan and CQC just go so well together. Long Range + Speed are for Minmatar and Caldari.

mollerz, bad scout. bad. *bops with newspaper* Gallente Scouts do not use Active Scanners *wags finger.*
You've got passive scan range of 27m and change. the next 2 levels get you to 36. use the low slots for a dampener and a range amp. use high slots for damage mods. Win.

lol, but seriously Shield tanking is very good for long range engagements while armor tanks are for that up close and personal "Bruiser" style. While Passive Scan and CQC just go so well together. Long Range + Speed are for Minmatar and Caldari.

Ok thanks! I didn't even think to put a precision enhancer on. I am sure I will be amused by how much more vis I get.

I see no one said much about running a damage mod? I kind of figured it would serve.

@quill- I always have flux because we take down objectives with them. We end up setting off way too many REs to give them up. On the knifer side, we use them as flash bangs of a sort. We carpet bomb as we run into groups, or into rooms. If you time it right, you are sprinting in on the EMP bubble as it is collapsing

I'll definitely check out the advanced scanner!

mollerz, bad scout. bad. *bops with newspaper* Gallente Scouts do not use Active Scanners *wags finger.*
You've got passive scan range of 27m and change. the next 2 levels get you to 36. use the low slots for a dampener and a range amp. use high slots for damage mods. Win.

The breach is not good. There are just too many suits out there that can survive both shots from it. My 'Templar' Sentinel A-1 can survive both shots from the Allotek Breach and it is only worse with the ADV Heavy/Sentinel.
I really love my Dragonfly Scout. I use STD everything on it except for the equipment which is a compact nanohive. Shield extender, shotgun, scrambler pistol, compact nanohive, dampener, armor repair.

I can be pretty obstinate in my choice for suits on a map. "I'm going to run X suit next game." And I stick with that suit the whole match regardless of how well I do. So when I bring out my basic suit I'm prepared to go up against the most tanked out suits.
It's all about hitting them once and immediately start circling around them. And it is very rewarding to kill a suit that costs 50 times as much ISK as yours.

My proto fit, though, runs a complex damage mod for the CreoDron/Duvolle for that little extra oomph against the other proto suits.

Ok thanks! I didn't even think to put a precision enhancer on. I am sure I will be amused by how much more vis I get.

I see no one said much about running a damage mod? I kind of figured it would serve.

@quill- I always have flux because we take down objectives with them. We end up setting off way too many REs to give them up. On the knifer side, we use them as flash bangs of a sort. We carpet bomb as we run into groups, or into rooms. If you time it right, you are sprinting in on the EMP bubble as it is collapsing

I'll definitely check out the advanced scanner!

g/1 gall scout
adv prec
adv prec
comp damp
comp range
cr
smg
m1
REs

Great for boobytrapping and headshotting from behind; excellent squad support/flanker and follow-up to an uplink fit.

Process: sneak behind lines, drop uplinks, suicide, spawn above fit, troll. Nothing funnier than peppering the enemy to get them to turn their backs to your squad mates.

mollerz, bad scout. bad. *bops with newspaper* Gallente Scouts do not use Active Scanners *wags finger.*

So I took a break from the forums for a long while....and I came back and noticed an excellent series of threads concerning none other than the scientific method. As I backtracked it through oh around 10 pages of posts and various threads I had a happy feeling. As a grad student IRL (not that liberal arts crap, hard biomedical science), thank you to everyone who has put the time in to generating quantitative data. It is appreciated.

I might suggest looking at how the shotgun scales from standard to proto vs relative HP ranges of medium and heavy frames of each tier. In my experience (22+ mill SP scout shotgunner since early february 2013), I've noticed (qualitative) that standard shotguns will blow apart just about every standard suit (except heavies) with OHKs. However, this doesn't scale with tier at all.

At proto tier suits, proto shotguns do not OHK, not even close. It requires minimum two shots, typically 2-3 and higher if you use advanced tier shotguns.

My question is this: does the DPS increase in shotguns scale similarly to say assault rifles or rail/combat rifles? Or has the increased eHP outpaced our ability to remain effective against higher tiers using shotguns?

I think it is fairly self evident to anyone who has played using a shotgun that going against lower tier suits with shotguns is a scout's wet dream but that doesn't make them OP when you consider higher tiered suits....perhaps lowering the std tier damage and increasing the higher tier damage on shotguns should be discussed?

Aight for all you winmatars out there. I've skilled into heavy on my logi alt. He has a nova knife as the secondary XD the 1st scout I manage to kill with him will be named and shamed lol. So far I've only gotten 3 kills with the knifes X( lol.

Contents:
[S1] Introduction
[S2] Dampening ability of scouts compared to med frames
[S3] Speed differences and viability of speed tanking
[S4] EHP differences
[S5] Versatility
[S6] Active vs passive scanning

Active Scanners are less fun than other EQ,
but it takes alot of module slots to compete with one.

Option A: Run 1 Precision Enhancer, 2 Range Extenders
Option B: Run an A-19 Active Scanner

The latter consistently outperforms the former on my Rail Rifle loadouts.
The latter outperforms the former on paper as well (comparing range & precision).

Note: I tend to run Advanced gear.

I've started work on a scoutly thread. I'm not mucking about suggesting solutions (I'll leave that to my betters) but so far I think I've summarised some of the problems decently.

This is what I'm covering:



Is there anything else you guys think I should cover?

Once I've polished what I've written a bit I'll share the draft with you folks.

I run primarily advanced and std scouts mostly to avoid the cost of proto gear (I lose far too many of them to make running them worthwhile for anything but PC or occasionally FW). In order to get some survival on them I opt to use most of the slots for buffer (enhanced plate, 2 x complex shield mods on G/1 with a complex kin cat rounding it out). Then I run either a scanner (as support for a squad) or a RE (as a bastard demolitions ninja) with a shotgun for 1 v 1 fights. I also have uplink fits for starter fits and to refresh links on the field.

Due to the extraordinarily low scan profile I can sneak behind entire squads and toss a remote into their midst. Then say goodbye to 4-5 proto fitted redberries. If I get caught sneaking up then I have enough buffer to survive about 1 second to make it to cover. Even then, I've distracted them and pull them away from fighting my squadmates. It's a fun tactic to run with relatively cheap suits. Suicide runs are great for breaking up the front lines.

If you're not running proto fits, I would recommend against profile dampeners. They just aren't useful very frequently. (only time is against a proto scanner or advanced if you don't have all the skills boosted). Even at proto suits only pack a basic. It brings you under 28 dB and any more would waste fitting.

Precision enhancers....I feel similarly about them. With your passives (once you have like lvl 3 skills) you pick up pretty much all but scouts and those medium frames who waste their time with dampeners (silly mediums). The number of times you run into those is fairly slim in comparison to the times you'll survive because of having more buffer.

(ie compare # times an passively unscanned enemy killed you vs. # times ~50-100 extra shields would've saved you).
In almost every case, buffer wins.

Fitting Constraints may be an area to cover, although you may put that under Versatility

Fitting Constraints may be an area to cover, although you may put that under Versatility

Learning to recognize jumpable gaps and reachable platforms...

I will always believe that the Commando is better suited for scouts. We even have the black eagle.

I mean, think about what the commando is to the heavy. Higher speed, +1 equipment slot, dual light weapons... Even the name would be great for the scout.
Instead of being called the Commandon't there'd be something extra for scouts.

How about sp investment to flesh out the scout roll compared to assault, logi, heavy, at full proto level then to a passable level( say advance level)
Also following your scrambler guide and having a giggle fest in my basic amarr assault

I've actually found this to be one of the most fun things about scouting.
Although I could certainly have acquired similar stats with medframes (and indeed, I have a couple of mad fit medframes which have scoutly speeds) running around in a dual kincatted minja beats the hell out of lumbering around in a 5 plate Gallogi.

Maybe you could rate gaps based on number of kincats required to clear...I can think of quite a few.

Is there anything else you guys think I should cover?

So I took a break from the forums for a long while....and I came back and noticed an excellent series of threads concerning none other than the scientific method. As I backtracked it through oh around 10 pages of posts and various threads I had a happy feeling. As a grad student IRL (not that liberal arts crap, hard biomedical science), thank you to everyone who has put the time in to generating quantitative data. It is appreciated.

But not only is the Active Scanner less fun than other EQ, it inhibits some of the most enjoyable gameplay. Nothing is more exhilarating than dodging multiple enemies' FOVs by a hair's breadth to set up yourself to take each one down individually. This is much, much harder to do if you they know you are there and you have to stop and scan every so often.

How about sp investment ... compared to assault, logi, heavy

Haunting a socket behind enemy lines:

First, they come one by one. The pressure mounts, the longer you last.
With each wave they get smarter, bring better gear, bring their friends.

All the while, you ping them. And ping them. And ping them again.
You are behind their lines, taunting them. They cannot ignore this insult.

You want them to know you're still alive, over there somewhere.
Knowing your nearby is quite different than knowing where you are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHW2EEgX7FE