So true - my plight.

passive scan has nice range behind too but no matter everyone can be sneaked up on when distracted or because of dampeners.

and yes most mediums and heavies light up my radar like a christmas tree at close to 60m range and I only have gallente scout lvl3 and so does quite a few scouts not using dampeners and not at lvl 5 scout suit.

10*1.5*1.5 is 22.5m passive scan.

Complex range are 1.45
No sacking penalty
I can fit 4x

So...like 99.5m?

Not impossible because I'm doing it. Not on advanced suit with a proto gallente scout. Neo suits at lvl 3

You can think its broke all you want. This was not based off numbers it from 2 days testing with 50 neo suits.

If I wanted armor or shield I would be in an assault suit

From a scout perspective. The low TTK is destroying our play style. Any of our potential playstyles (except perhaps as snipers, which are played better as assaults or logis anyways). If I sneak up behind someone I should be able to drop them. The hit detection fix for the shotgun is pretty nice actually. Worked a lot better for me this morning. Unfortunately, the militia suited players I was trying to kill (from behind, nice and sneaky) just turned around and blapped me with one burst of a militia AR in a wild spray of hip-fired rounds.

I used to be able to run and hide before getting killed if I got caught out while being sneaky. I have no recourse now. Less than a second to die. My speed mods, my armor buffs, my shields all count for nothing. I tried every variation of suits that I have, from my proto armor buffed scout to my proto kin cats stuffed scout. They all died equally well to the militia AR wielding Frontline assault suit.

My typical K/D ratio was sitting between 2-5 each match. I played extraordinarily well to get a 1.4 K/D ratio with 1.6 patch.

Some might say HTFU. But when I can't even survive a 0.5 second burst.....no playstyle is going to work no matter how "hard" I play.

I say, why should I HAVE to play anything other than the scout? Everyone wielding ARs just isn't what Dust is all about. Diversity is the name of the game. Unfortunately, that's not what the current TTK mechanism is driving us to.

g/1 gall scout
adv prec
adv prec
comp damp
comp range
cr
smg
m1
REs

Great for boobytrapping and headshotting from behind; excellent squad support/flanker and follow-up to an uplink fit.

Process: sneak behind lines, drop uplinks, suicide, spawn above fit, troll. Nothing funnier than peppering the enemy to get them to turn their backs to your squad mates.

Just going to use Assault suits for this experiment. Very much a generalization.

BASE suit: 180/180 A-1, 210/120 C-1, 120/210 G-1, 150/135 M-1

STD Slots: 2H1L A-1, 2H2L C-1, 2H2L G-1, 3H1L M-1

basic shield extender is 22HP, basic armor plate is 65HP
I'd say Caldari and Gallente are the most prevalent types within them. So lets Shield tank the Caldari and Armor tank the Gallente.

And we'll say Armor Upgrades and Shield Upgrades levels are equal to the suit's pre-reqs.

STD suit: 189/189 A-1, 220/126 C-1, 126/220 G-1, 157/141 M-1

44 shields, 65 armor, 1 repper. Caldari now has 264/192HP and the Gallente have 170/286.

ADV: 207/207 A/1-Series, 241/138 C/1-Series, 138/241 G/1-Series, 172/155 M/1-Series
Slots: 2H2L A/1-Series, 3H/2L C/1-Series, 2H3L G/1-Serie, 3H2L M/1-Series

ADV shield are 33HP(35) and Armor is 115HP(122) +6% from skill

Our Gallente and Caldari are going to use 1 repper and shields and plates of their level.
346/260 Caldari and 208/485 for Gallente

PRO: 225/225 ak.0, 262/150 ck.0, 150/262 gk.0, 187/168 mk.0
Slots: 3H3L ak.0, 4H3L ck.0, 3H4L gk.0, 4H2L mk.0

PRO shields are 66 (72) and PRO plates are 135 (148)

Now I'll be a little more realistic in builds. My ck.0 is 2 complex damage mods and 2 complex shield Extender, With 2 enhanced plate. and 1 complex repairer in the Low. My gk.0 is full Combat, So 3 complex damage mods for that oh-so-fun TTK, 3 complex plates, and a reppairer.

ck.0 HP is 406/402. The gk.0 is 150/706

Lets look at Shotgun Damage. 40, 42, and 44 (with 12 pellets each: 480, 504, and 528)

With +10% to shield and -10% to armor.

264/192HP for caldari vs 480 damage. well, that's more like 237/211 because of the damage type. 237+211= 448.
STD shotgun kills a C-1 assault with basic HP.

170/286 for Gallente vs 480. adjusted = 153/314. 153+314= 467 so OHK again.

ADV: 346/260 Caldari modified to 311/286. 597EHP. 2 shots to kill on any shotgun

and 208/485 modified to 187/533 = 720. so 2 shots with any shotgun.

PRO 406/402. modified 365/442 = 807. Again, 2 shots from any shotgun.

The gk.0 is 150/706 becomes 135/776 so 911EHP. 2 shots on any shotty. But, swaping damage mods for shield extenders on teh Assault gk.0 can give you enough to survive 2 shots from basic shotty but not enough for ADV or PRO.

Logi's are pretty much the same on STD and ADV, but Gal and Cal can take up to 3 shots on any shotgun if fully tanked. which happens a lot.

Driftwood. All three(?) "high alpha" weapons need a buff. The nova knives the shotgun and the sniper rifle. their STD values are fairly well balanced, but ADV falls short and Proto is barely worth it. (That's why the only proto shotgun and proto sniper I use is the Fed Specialist and state specialist, respectively:p)

http://i.imgur.com/BFTlfqn.jpg Gallente for the win... and by "win" I mean "not being crippled."

We need to start a feedback page in the feedback section. No commentary just a post that says "dedicated Scout since [started playing scout], signed [your name]"

We need to keep the current role bonus and get that fitting cost. Then Minmatar and Gallente keep their current one, and we'll see how Amarr and Caldari fare

??

why do you say that?

Unless there specifically is a gallente logi on the field... a gallente scout will still be more or less as stealthy as they were before, I think?

Certainly as compared to assaults, at any rate.


These days, seems like the majority of scanning I run across, is actually from vehicles. So as long as you're below that, you're going to be in about the same place you are already, even if you dont use cloak.


It remains to be seen just how desirable a cloak will be, andd in which roles.
Given that there will be a cooldown for it, its certainly not going to be some ultimate ninja winbutton for assassinating everything in site. Rather, it sounds like it's going to have to be used with specific tactical goals in mind.

My main concern is whether scouts are going to be able to use a cloak, AND carry an uplink, at the same time.

The 50% reduction to fitting a cloak for scout suits is a joke when taking into consideration that assault suits have 30% more cpu, i hate to think how much more cpu logis have.

I also want to add that the three racial scout suits being Minmatar, Caldari and Amarr not getting the profile dampening bonus is a complete utter garbage (unless they CCP are lowering scouts base profile).

Good grief, I gotta start running in squads more often. This game can really, really suck when you run solo (or even with just one other, honestly.) So tired of placing uplinks, hacking objectives, taking out stray sheep, wondering where the hell everyone else is at, getting killed, finally respawning ... to find eight mercs sitting around behind our redline, licking rocks...

I think it needs to be said that ZNs are only viable if your knifing skills as well as M scout skills are maxed out. Otherwise you have to use IshNoks.

I'm maxed out and notice the huge difference in TTK between the two when it comes to slashing. I couldn't imagine without the bonuses.

After this event my shotgun is going to feel like it has the range of a ar XD. Back peddling bastards wont escape

You sure you're not hiding any RE's somewhere?

If anything I would say that the 25% reduction in profile while cloaked is a tad OP. I like the idea of having that bonus but perhaps scaled back and then increases based on the tier of cloak. 10% on standard, 15-18% on adv and 20-25% on complex.

That would keep that bonus essentially to scouts only and provide an incentive to use the higher tier gear on top of the increased cloak times.

Though again, I think the extra bonus on top of what scouts already have in terms of profile.....could be OP. Actually it probably is.

A proto caldari scout (I'm assuming it has a role of anti-scout scout) can pick up other scouts passively. Add 1 complex precision module to cancel out 1 enhanced dampener. 2 precision to pick up scouts running between 1 complex dampener to 1 complex + 1 enhanced. (sorry hard to conceptualize in text)

By using a cloak though, a scout can use 1 complex dampener and have the equivalent of two. With a profile of 18dB They would then only be scanned by a Cal scout running 3 precision enhancers (out of 4 highs) or a Gal Logi with a duvolled focused scanner.

Not only are you cloaked but you cant get scanned either....

I get what you're saying but personally I'm not a fan of having to completely gimp my suit because one guy brings out a focused scanner. I have to do that now or just not run my suit. The point of the suit is to avoid detection. To reduce it's ability to avoid detection anymore will put us right back at where we are now: having to gimp our suits to avoid scanners.

I want those days to be over. I'm tired of my eHP getting cut because one person is running a scanner. I will already have to cut my eHP to run a damp if someone is using a focus. I'd rather not have to run two and waste all three of my low slots just to avoid detection.

Simply put, the bonus makes sense. It's an active dampener with a bonus high enough to get a scout below a focused when he wants to be and maintain enough eHP to not be an instant kill. It allows a scout to be a scout.

While I did not expect a dampening bonus for the cloak in the big picture it works. To remove it will make make suits with less lowslots (caldari in particular) the most gimped out of scouts.

A broken clock and all that

^^This^^

1) The cloak dampens you as well, which will allow one to forgo a damp on a low if you can manage your cool downs effectively, which I image will be a skill that will need mastering

2) Scale up in dampening as necessary, you only need to run it high for those particular situations (or drop it entirely for a pure slayer fit if your not a gal scout and can't dodge it at all)

Lol no but I couldn't be bothered to change it once I finaly managed to upload it to google docs. ^_^

*snip*

Edit: What should I change about the new table to make it better/easier to read?

Says the guy who is basically posting *my* argument that I had posted in this thread about removing profile bonus, to the feedback thread.

you posted your stuff there at 2014.01.23 17:26.
I posted https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1755240#post1755240 at 2014.01.23 05:15 , 12 hours earlier.

Clever, that.

Yes. right in the middle ground, myself, 1.8 ml sp banked.
I can do sooo much with it right now, hard to resist.
Big changes coming for scouts....
Must stay focused

Dig the assassin = nova knives tag.

I vacillate between

Assault / Electronics / Sidearm

Lurker / Electronics / Sidearm

Usually, depending on if I'm with a squad (squad = assault) and/or if people are leaving objectives unguarded (If I see an unguarded objective I go into lurker / guardian mode).

Thank God no.

Cal II, and Physics II + Lab is all I have to take for my Major. After that, it's Chem, Chem, Chem.

Don't worry.

We have an awesome 470+ page long forum to confirm we were scout vets before 1.8

My Advisor Recommended Calc III before taking P chem. Not happening, but I know that will be a tough class.

As for Titrations? I did two in high school Chem. They were fun!

I can't wait to do them in lab and see the inevitable 2-3 people get aggravated that it's taking too long, dump in a bunch of acid, and then blow right past the end point. Have fun restarting your titration!

No i was thinking the other way around. all you talk is your eHP tank scout. maybe your in the wrong suit. i run 249 eHP full range, precision, dampeners and have no problem with TTK because I know my job is not to soak bullets its to hide from even getting shot in the first place. lowering the dmg my AR or RR does noting but make me have to shoot longer while giving my enemy more time to see and shot me. maybe you should try using a scout suit for scouting instead of HP tanking and you might see that.

I was at PAXEast last year, CCP had a setup to play DUST, chromosome build, with a few proto level toons. Pfft, I had DUST at home. I ended up in the board game section playing 7 Wonders and Ticket to Ride all day. Both worth a trial run, especially 7 Wonders.

If you like tabletop RPGs too, try Fiasco You can play out your own Coen Brothers movie in about 3 hours.

With my new job we have a weekly games night where a bunch of us stay late and play whatever is proposed in the meeting room - last week was my first go at Magic The Gathering (sucked supreme with a goblin deck) and previous weeks have involved Nidhogg tournees and trying out Descent, which was pretty fun and my team actually won :)

I'd never really tried this sort of stuff out before but what I would have once upon a time derided as nerd games actually seem like a good laugh, even if I generally have no idea what I'm doing and keep throwing my 1/1 goblins into the fire not realising I should hold the line instead... much to learn.

BTW - am I the only one here in the limbo of their (admittedly late) twenties? Everyone else seems to be 30+ or college age.

I'm 32 and a options trader for a broker dealer. Oh yeah, and a giant viking. Literally.

Government money rules.

I get 4k a year for school, and I don't have to pay it back.

I'll pay it back in my own way by benefiting society as a whole or something like that. I'm sure that's how they see it.

I just want to be able to play in a lab and get paid for it.

I know

It needs some recognition

sorry to spam it but i can't really help. What did you think?

I smell like wine.

I smell like french fries and shame after work.

My manager graduated from college and made a career out of it.

He SAYS he has a Bachelors in Cellular and Molecular Biology, but that Being a fast food manager pays better......

I'm not entirely convinced.

I had my first one 2 days ago!

Best feeling in the world! Nothing like Matadoring an LAV!

I imagine he was quite surprised to have that happen as he tried to run you over

TBH, that corp isn't much more active than here. The scout community has just hit a bit of a slump since its been a while since the last update or dev info and we've already exhausted our theory crafting on what info they have given us.

If the devs start releasing more info next week, conversation should pick back up.

Don't forget that Gal Logi proto scanners will have a precision of 21db (assuming their bonus hasn't changed since the Sisi leak).

Because our base scan precision is still 45 after 1.8, a 25% reduction won't get it that low. The cal scout won't really have to worry about mediums, but they are going to have to devote some slots if they want to hunt scouts.

I've thought about wine making, but all the grapes I can grow in my region are very very sweet....blech on sweet wine.

mmm, natty ice. almost as good as steel reserve.

I don't drink, but even I know that Natty Ice is basically water.

People at college complain about it on a regular basis.

Do you know any drinks that appeal to people with a sweet tooth?

I need to know.....for science.....

I do love Cider. My parent's let my try stuff all the time. So long as they are there.

I'm fairly certain my mate was called something like this a while back.
Possibly by me.
Ciderwise I've no idea what this is.
Also, I just remembered that outside Ireland Bulmers is called Magners.

Come on now lol. We all know they will do 2-5 things that all affect the relationship between the damage the gun does with the damage a person receives. In the end I'll probably be using dual smgs again on open maps. I'll toss 10 mill into my local if I'm wrong.

If balance was like foosball, CCP would be that guy that thinks spinning all the rods at once is the best way to reach the goal.You know that guy, don't be that guy. XD

people know the shotgun and plasma cannon are bad. but PLC is a novelty weapon while shotgun is just bad.

By Core skills do you mean Core Upgrades??

I measured it explicitly and posted the results, just a couple weeks ago. After a certain person complained they are as powerful as shotguns.
Numbers said: they're not :)


It's x3.5 for full charge, as I recall.

I'm really not sure, I caught the headshotgun business, but all this insulting of Quill?
You're almost as bad as me with any friend I've made ever.
Edit: That's you combined against Quill Vs me with one friend.

*snip*

Something that i completely agree with that Shotty once said "If scouts become OP, you can bet that most of the vet scouts will be amount the most vocal about fixing it. We don't want to be EZ mode." (paraphrasing a bit, but you get the drift) This attitude basically ties us together a fair bit, in my opinion.

As far as i am concerned we are all in this together. o7

And you don't regret your time reading atlas shrugged?

lol.. the irony.

I clicked my notifications and saw it was for something back on page 50 or so. Good luck getting through those pages man. Maybe u'll actually be able to keep up with it. Reading it every day or so still got me lost when it jumped 10 or so pages in a day. XD

What, are you saying that you capped out with your 1500 heavy kills, for operation marauder?

Hell, even a 5 point bonus (->40 dB) would help out the scanning situation.

That way it would scale such that with 1 complex precision enh would allow a cal scout to pick up a non-gal scout with 1 complex damp (uncloaked) or an undampened cloaked non-gal scout.

That's still seems a little messed up to me that you would still need to add modules to the best passive scanning suit in the game, but that would be a conservative change.

Dropping the scan precision (of all scouts) to 35 dB would be ideal in my opinion. The way that precision enhancers are set up with complex giving a -20% bonus allows complex dampeners to outstrip them after stacking.

As such, a gallente scout will still beat the caldari scout (in terms of passive scanning) with the addition of 1 complex damp (vs 1 complex precision) though without dampeners the 2 will be ~equal in terms of profile damp (gal) v. precision (cal).

This would continue with the incremental increase in the dampeners and precision enhancer modules used.
____Gal Scout____I____Cal Scout_____I____Generic Scout precision___
0 damp = 23.6 dB__I__0 prec = 23.6 dB__I__0 prec/damp = 31.5 / 31.5 dB
1 damp = 17.7 dB__I__1 prec = 18.9 dB__I__1 prec/damp = 25.2 / 23.6 dB
2 damp = 13.3 dB__I__2 prec = 15.6 dB__I__2 prec/damp = 20.8 / 17.7 dB

Also, this doesn't take into account the cloaking bonus. That essentially adds one complex damp to anyone using it (while activated) Thus, an undampened scout will still be picked up by a cal scout while cloaked (probably, ~equal profile/precision) but if they run an additional dampener then they hit 17.7 dB and require a cal scout to use at least 2 precision modules.

Gallente scout is still mostly invisible regardless of situation but can be picked up with 1-3 stacked precision modules depending on how damped they are.

Also, this allows *other* non-cal scouts to have some semblance of tac-net vision of other scouts. They have to sacrifice a fair amount of fitting (ie at least 1 module if not 2 to be effective) to scan other scouts but aren't as effective at that role as the caldari scout. Thus, we have a counter for dampened scouts as well as a partial counter to the *invisibility* of gal scouts.

Thoughts? Worthy of a feedback thread?

Math thinger with scan precision and dampening stuff
*Snip*

I'd have to disagree with this Drift. I can see a couple of issues it introduces to scouts, but the main problem is that it completely destroys medium vs light balance.

By making scout base scan precision 35, a medium with level 5 dampening and a complex dampener would be visible by any scout with level 3 precision enhancement, or a level 1 Caldari scout. Mediums would be in a worse situation than they are with the current Active Scanner spam.

And on the scout side, the balance should be to favour dampening over precision. I'm not sure if the current numbers are the best balance, but the benefits of precision far out way the benefits of dampening. Not being seen is useful, but really only puts you at a level playing field with other scouts or mediums/heavies with low visibility. Being able to see your opponents passively from range is a massive advantage.

Yeah :-/

Driftward has a feedback thread on Scouts Scanning abilities in 1.8, I've posted a number of posts in there about that problem: LINK

Would simply slightly raising the percentage given by Precision Enhancers not be a better solution?
I know I have no fancy maths, but what would be the drawback to this solution?

How will this affect scanning on the Cal Scout?

We need to number crunch again

I really don't think they will nerf it. Anyone with a brain will be able to figure out someone is cloaked hacking the point, unless they made it so you are stealth hacking it. By that I mean the letter won't flash and the opposing team won't be notified until the point suddenly goes to the other team.

So we all can go Lv1 cloak

Maybe Lv3 if you truly like to linger

Yeah I couldn't remember if she posted it under Nos Nothi character.
I'm not too worried about SG prof atm, since MSMG, ScP, etc can finish off the fatties.

Anyone else thinking that since we got our profiles lowered and fittings room is generally better than before that having the cloak give an automatic dampening bonus is a little overkill? I don't think it's needed anymore.

I take it most of you are enjoying 1.8