It's not that hard to bust a Tank.... but yeah its bloody ridiculous than a vehicle pilot can "Undock" in a Sentinel instantly and gank anything close to it or escape with impunity as a scout.

As for the small turrets thing.....damn good show on his part. That's what I do when infantry is strafing too fast for my Missile or Rail HAV.

On the 5300 (7120 Shield EHP) buffer tank I often run in Pub Skirm and Ambush OS-whatchamacallit you can sit their and plink away at AV much more accurately than with a blaster or Missile turret though you risk blue dots nicking off with your tank.

So why is everyone thinking Mediums are getting a EWAR buff?

I think the Falloff scans are enough to make it viable for a Medium to run one damp/precision/amp for the innermost circle, at least to begin with.

Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts.


That's it basically.

So why is everyone thinking Mediums are getting a EWAR buff?

I think the Falloff scans are enough to make it viable for a Medium to run one damp/precision/amp just to improve the innermost circle, at least to begin with.

Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts.


That's it basically.

So why is everyone thinking Mediums are getting a EWAR buff?

I think the Falloff scans are enough to make it viable for a Medium to run one damp/precision/amp just to improve the innermost circle, at least to begin with.

Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts.


That's it basically.

So why is everyone thinking Mediums are getting a EWAR buff?

I think the Falloff scans are enough to make it viable for a Medium to run one damp/precision/amp just to improve the innermost circle, at least to begin with.

Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts.


That's it basically.

So why is everyone thinking Mediums are getting a EWAR buff?

I think the Falloff scans are enough to make it viable for a Medium to run one damp/precision/amp just to improve the innermost circle, at least to begin with.

Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts.


That's it basically.

So why is everyone thinking Mediums are getting a EWAR buff?

I think the Falloff scans are enough to make it viable for a Medium to run one damp/precision/amp just to improve the innermost circle, at least to begin with.

Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts.


That's it basically.

1. So why is everyone thinking Mediums are getting a EWAR buff?

2. I think the Falloff scans are enough to make it viable for a Medium to run one damp/precision/amp just to improve the innermost circle, at least to begin with.

3. Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts.

The numbers look good to me, initially, except I find the values for REs (both Proxi and regular) should be halved. My bias to way too strong on this. It has nothing to do with mathematics and balance, I just want to protect my preferred EQ set-up on a Scout.

So why is everyone thinking Mediums are getting a EWAR buff?

I think the Falloff scans are enough to make it viable for a Medium to run one damp/precision/amp just to improve the innermost circle, at least to begin with.

Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts.


That's it basically.

I raged.

---

Dust Forums, how I love thee.

So why is everyone thinking Mediums are getting a EWAR buff?

I think the Falloff scans are enough to make it viable for a Medium to run one damp/precision/amp just to improve the innermost circle, at least to begin with.

Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts.


That's it basically.

@ Nerf Scout EWAR!

An Alternative Approach:
Google Doc
Suggestion Thread

Assaults
* 5dB buff to Profile
* 5dB buff to Precision
* 5m buff to Range

Logis
* 5dB buff to Profile
* 5dB buff to Precision
* 5m buff to Range

(I understand this wouldn't be as popular as nerf scouts!, but it would achieve the goal of improving MedFrame EWAR with substantially less risk of fallout.)

I love how Zatara can say stuff like, it doesn't take much for a scout to get over 500hp, just fit 4 complex shields.

And then say proto assaults mostly only run 600 to 700 hp.

So it's fine and normal for a scout to fill 2/3s of their mod slots with proto hp mods and we should balance around this, but assaults only have 700hp so can't possibly give it up for damps.

Can't remember exactly what he said, but these double standards make me lol.

Edit: ok, so he said the assault bit first, and it was up to 800hp without EWAR.

Still annoying. Over 500 hp is a lot of hp investment for a scout.

The current mechanics already have some area for Mediums to dampen.

If they have 1 Complex Dampener equipped, they can beat Minmatar and Caldari scouts with no precision enhancers, and with 2 Complex Dampeners can beat both Amarr and Gallente scouts with no precision enhancers.

Assuming all scouts have 1 Complex PE, Medium frames can beat Minmatar and Caldari scouts scans with 2 Complex Dampeners. They need 3 CDs to beat Gallente's 1 PE (though if tied scans/damps went to the dampened instead of the precision they would only need two). To beat Amarr with 1 Complex PE, they would need 4 Complex Damps.

It is ONLY when you get to scouts with 2 Complex PEs that you begin to have a problem,

as at that point Medium Frames can't beat Amarr scans, BUT you have to consider that Amarr are sacrificing all their High Slots to get this advantage AND that this is their role! Caldari and Minamatar with 2 Complex Precision Enhancers can STILL be beaten with 3 Complex Dampeners. Gallente scans can STILL be beaten, but you have to sacrifice 5 slots for Complex Dampeners to do so, there again Gallente are sacrificing ALL THEIR HIGH SLOTS, and you can STILL beat their scans!!

It is ONLY when Caldari and Minmatar sacrifice ALL their High Slots that you cannot beat their scans! Even then, if tied precision/dampening went to the dampener instead of the scanner you could beat them!

It was your own assertion that medframes could compete with EWAR, not mine. I haven't said a word about whether they should be able to or not - but your assertion that medframes can compete with scout EWAR is blatantly wrong.




Let's talk about those perceived HP discrepancies.

Our scanner will be an Amarr scout with two precision enhancers.

For this hypothetical scenario, we'll use a Galscout. Naturally, to evade our scanner, our Galscout will be fully dampened and equipped with a cloak. It only actually needs the cloak to evade short scans, but we'll just ignore that for now.
This leaves the Galscout free to fit two complex plates and two complex extenders, leading to a total of approximately 700 EHP.

Our second victim will be, say, a Galassault. To avoid the Amarr scout scans it will use 5 dampeners. It won't actually avoid them even on long but let's just consider that a minor detail for now.

This enables it to fit three shield extenders, leading to a total of 750 HP.

Truly, a massive HP discrepancy and something crippling to the class. 50 HP is so massive we'll just ignore the smaller hitbox of the Galscout, the superior passive scans of the Galscout helping it with other threats, the fact that the Galassault still can't actually evade that scan, the quicker shield recovery of the Galscout, the better equipment flexibility should it choose to forgo the probably unnecessary cloak, etc etc.
Also, the Amarr scout can happily tank up while running around with these scans.

Before you turn around in indignation again and claim that I am suggesting scouts should be terrible at EWAR or something, let me remind you what I am proving here. Here is a direct quote from you:



You are wrong.

Medium frames cannot compete with scout EWAR. Stating that they presently can is simply untrue.

As a scout, you should understand the tactical importance of radar and that scanning is inherently stronger than dampening tactically - scanning affecting a broad range, dampening affecting only you. A full 5 rack of low slot dampeners to counter 2 high slot scanners is too much. Nobody will do it, and it can't be called competitive.

Where was this said?

Saying that scouts were more useful to the competitive scene in 1.7 than assaults/logi's are in 1.8 =/= Scout before 1.8 were fine.

I have said multiple times the extra slot/extra equip slot/and that the cloak is awesome for scouts and shouldn't be nerfed into the ground..that these were needed changes for scouts to be MORE viable.

I like how you're wrong about all sorts of **** (marauder/roner for 1)...but it's all good to politicize and misquote me in here so you can circlejerk about my supposed 'intentions'.

Utterly pathetic.

Zatara is learning the ways of the DPLAK

Is that an insult?

It's Appia so I wouldn't be surprised.

TL;DR

Man...just read it all.

You got time to make spreadsheets and go back months ago in some cases to misquote me...you proly have enough time to actually read this. :P

What's pathetic is your constant politicking.

PS: Marauder is the founding father of HP tanked scouts. He ran a tanky scout from 1.0 forward, long before tanking scouts became the norm. Roner migrated to scout much later and followed in Marauders footsteps.

Marauder and Roner ran plates and kincats; they didn't even bother with damps. Lol.

I asked if you needed more. Here's Roner...looking for marauder.

Edit: Found it!

So he either ran 2 plates 2 repairers...or 1 plate 1 damp 2 repair.

And he aimed for about 560 ehp.

Sounds about like what the gal is pulling today.

And the Cal right behind it...and the Min behind that.