Are you saying there's something wrong with me putting a Boundless HMG, 2 complex plates, 1 complex heavy damage mod, and an M209 SMG on my 'Templar' Sentinel A-I? Blasphemy
On the other hand, I actually do run out of fitting space on my cal-Sent and can't run full proto.

Hmm.. Looking at how the slot layouts and bonuses work, I like the way this is headed. If you want max precision, you go Amarr, if you want decent precision with excellent range, you go Cal.

I also noticed that you made the PRO cloak a 15% reduction instead of 10%

Using that number.....

My min Scout with 2x Damps and PRO cloak has a profile of 15.71. This rounds up to 16 (Stupid rounding)

I can dodge 1x Amarr Scans, and 2x Cal Scans (3x rounds up to 16, and tie goes to scanner)

3x Damps and PRO cloak and I have a profile of 13.47. Rounds up to 14.

I can dodge everything.

Normally, I would be saying "This doesn't change anything" but since Min Scout gets codebreakers to high, I can still do my job. I can Speed hack AND be invisible, meaning that I can get onto the objective undetected and hack.

What fit's will I run?

2x Damp Min Scout:

1x Shield
2x Codebreaker

1x Speed
2x Damp

Hacks in 3.81s, dodges most scans while cloaked.

The 3x Damp will be the same, except just with 3x damps and 3x codebreakers.

---

I suspect that Cal Scouts will still be slightly more popular, but Amarr scouts will have a role as point defense specialists. They can Tank both precision and armor and be tough to take down.

Granted, we can walk under his scans, but he still has a huge HP advantage.

Caldari will be more popular due to those 87-120m scans. This guy will LOCK DOWN the city for everyone not running damps.

So scouts damp and everyone else has to duke it out with the wall hack on.

No reason to run active scanners anymore. This guy does it better. Scanners will solely be used for the focused to scan scouts.

eWAR is slightly better for scouts, but still f'd up overall.

Let's start building the premises and agree on them one by one.

Let's also remember that the focused GA pro logi has 15dB.

Best precision should therefore be 14dB or less

Best dampener only needs an equal amount of dampeners to amount of precision modules on best precision to beat him. Appias suggestion.

All scouts should be able to beat the best precision, with cloak? Without cloak? Discuss.

Complex plates will have the same signature penalty as a complex dampener so each plate cancels out a dampener. This is something I want to explore, it will also make brick sentinels stand out like christmas trees.


Let's keep working on this.

very slow, short range, scanner at 20dB which can be evaded by all scouts at some effort, not maximum, and seen by everyone, esp CA scouts that then can engage before the Amarr sees him. Doesn't seem to break anything.

To further discourage bricking, how about increasing medium frame scan range to 15m?
This puts it at max skills at 21m.

If a scout decides to brick, assaults and logis will be able to see it.
The current 15m at max range isn't enough, as by the time you react, you already have a buckshot in your face.

And that's why we need falloff.

Because then it would mean that the higher the profile of the scanned, the further away he's detected from.
Rather than everything is detected in a 100m radius (if you had that range)
So those tanks? Gonna come up on your radar a klom away.

eWAR is the point of the scout suit. eWAR includes everything that involves dampening, precision, and range.

This is our domain. Nobody should be better at it.

Assaults are getting buffed, hopefully on the regen side, allowing them to be the best at fight back to back battles.

Heavies are HP Kings, and DPS kings.

Commando's are deadly versatile killers, with an excellent HP pool.

Logi's get bonuses to all equipment and form the backbone of PC. Can't play PC without good logi's.

If you give eWAR to the other classes, you run the risk of making them VERY OP.

Imagine if you had a Amarr assault with range bonuses. Stack 2x precision on them and a range amp. 50m scan on an assault suit that picks up everything that isn't a scout. And he has TONS of armor.

Because teamwork.

Could an assault benefit from really good scanning? Of course! But then it becomes pretty independent, and we don't want that. We need to encourage teamwork in a team based shooter. Assaults are the best slayers but have trouble finding enemies, scouts are really good at finding enemies (that is pretty much the definition of a scout, it's not all about stealth) but have trouble slaying. They intricately work together. Logis then are a twist to the whole identification-and-slaying mechanic in that they can use tools that are even better at finding enemies than scouts but must be used actively, in addition to the Logi having trouble staying hidden.

Um. No. That is not how it works. All the rifles were OP, that didn't mean none of the rifles were OP.



Bonuses that improve play styles. Like Gallente getting a bonus to being up-close and personal. Caldari have a bonus that helps out at range. Minmatar getting a bonus that makes them good hit-and-run types, and Amarr something to go along with their heat build up reduction

That is a terrible, terrible thought.

If you give assaults the ability to be their own eWAR, why on EARTH would anyone run scout?

More than 1 gun can have too much power, you know.

And I meant mkre than 1 weapon can be too powerful like the cr and hmg.

All weapons OP doesn't make them all balanced, because there is not one single degree of OP. In fact, they can all be varying levels of OP.

I already said, I don't care about regen. I want to slay. All I need is HP and damage.
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/161/5448

Deathwind is why it is not ok for Dev groupies to just stop on in. There are plenty of other threads for feedback. The Barbershop was built for those who wanted to argue scout specific topics and continued doing so even when we were completely ignored.

Its not like we just set up shop in a random feedback thread and tried to take over. The reverse shouldn't be true either.

I like constructive criticism, but would prefer that anyone doing so stick around and be a part of the scout community and not just post self serving drivel.

Yes, I am looking at you Deathwind.

Look if you want to swing your e-peen around go to the war room. No one is impressed by you here. If you wish to talk shop hang out, be reasonable, and maybe people will value your opinion.
For the record. Appia would more than likely destroy you.

The point is that i'm obviously only here because of the blue tag, but i simply gave my feedback, like i do in many other threads.
I play most of time as scout, i use EW and of course i'm interested in what will be the evolution of my role, all the community should be involved in this discussion.
I've posted here and i've been personally attacked for no reason and i can't bear it.

On snipers,

My main assumption was that Thale's zoom was the major problem, i.e. only counterable by another Thale.

Riddle me this, Appia specifically and Symbiotik if you are here.

1)How far can you really shoot with the Thale's, what are regular and necessary ranges, 400, 500 or 600, to be an effective, team helping sniper?

2) Pretend we reduce the Thale's zoom down to whatever proto is right now. Is the zoom the limiting factor on range or would you need to within 400 metres anyway with proto zoom?

3) If we buff headshot damage so that a proto sniper can down a sentinel in 2, or even 1 and and a body shot, you really only need to have 300 to 450 range, right? Since you don't have the Thale zoom anymore?

4) Why only cal sent right now, I didn't do the math, but galogis with 3 dmg mods would seem ok? Is there ever a case for a long range scout sniper?

5) I would prefer that the tactical sniper could be a scout "shoot and relocate" weapon, that can be effective outside of Rail Rifle and Laser range. Is there a way? Reduced sway maybe, but not quickscoping. If you are being chased, a body shot and followup with smg should be scary to the chaser.

Roger that!

* Scan Range: +3m Logi, +5m Assault, +5m Commando
* Scan Profile: -5 dB Assault
* Scan Precision: -5 dB Commando (equal to Assault)
* CA Commando: +1 Low Slot, +PG/CPU
* MN Commando: +1 Low Slot, +PG/CPU
* GA Commando: +1 High Slot, +PG/CPU
* AM Commando: +1 High Slot, +PG/CPU

The Commando still needs to have an equal number of High and Low Slots as their Sentinel equivalent, otherwise they remain in a **** place no matter how you modify their base stats.

I would like this, but it might actually make a hacking scout OP.

I would attack much less, but I would run from place to place hacking like a madman without much in the way of counter.

As it is now, I have to be careful to time my cloak duration so that I have it during a hack, which leaves me vulnerable while I am waiting for the timer to fill. Alternately, I just start the hack and hope for the best, being more vulnerable to snipers (like when I hacked a supply depot uncloaked because it ran out, and Kodho sniped me).

It might make people who attack multiples hit and run style more vulnerable, but it wouldn't drastically hurt people hunting stragglers.

A delay before reactivating the cloak won't help with your problem. It is far too unwieldy and rather pointless to try to recloak under fire as a means of escape. What you will find is that a scout will run and hide before cloaking again, so a delay won't help you kill them.

Cloaks keep getting nerfed, but as they are they aren't causing any problems. Issues people are having with scouts are derived from other things. Personally I feel the small hitbox and naturally good regen encourages too much hp stacking. It feels just as hard to kill a tanked Cal scout as a tanked Cal assault in a straight fight, which is wrong.

If the decloak/fire delay worked, this may be a moot point ... a Scout will have to be fully visible well in advance of attack.

Update: Decloak/fire delay definitely worked. Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.

So why is everyone thinking Mediums are getting a EWAR buff?

I think the Falloff scans are enough to make it viable for a Medium to run one damp/precision/amp just to improve the innermost circle, at least to begin with.

Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts.


That's it basically.

now that high tiered deployables have lower profiles, has that changed something in the RE business?

Maybe, you gotta have big dreams.

Ugh, I would love to tie rewards to "played" minutes, rather than logons. Let me think about this, and no, I don't feel that you are less of a player/customer at all. Feel free to help me with non-exploitable fixes to rewarding crunch players that don't make the others feel that they don't need to log in regularly. Problem is that everytime you leave for work, I don't know if you are ever coming back :), maybe a subscription system might say "I am dedicated, reward me".

Fundamentally untrue, and malicious. When that happens, I simply stop listening.

I have been playing as a new player in the last weeks, start an alt every day.

There are quite a few things that can be done.

One, instead of character WP throwing you out, account WP should throw you out.

Multiple heavies in LAVs redlining newbs, constantly.

I will share more soon.