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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4826	Posted - 2014.10.13 17:49:00 - [23491] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: Hey guys. I got hacking to three! I put two ADV hacking mods on a basic m-1, two SMGs, one breach one regular, R-9 and stable links. I used it in a Dom, got seventeen hundred WPs, got to the end of the match, got fatal error. -_- Just wait Have Minja 5 Hacking 5GÇª complex CodebreakersGÇª blip done KRRROOOOOOM
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4089	Posted - 2014.10.13 17:51:00 - [23492] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Why not? I do see that the penalties do affect scouts more (=% on ># =>penalty), but I do think that that'll satisfy the bloodthirsty "nerf whatever killed me" cries. And lets be honest for a second. If you are running plates with more than a 1% speed penalty on a scout, you're kinda fucking yourself over. Because there's no logic to the thought process, and doing things because it will shut up the idiots isn't sufficient justification. If tanking is in the domain of the heavy, then Ewar is in the domain of the scouts. If one gets penalties for using modules in the others domain then logically it should work both ways. So where are the penalties for heavies when using ewar? Where is the logi penalty for using weapons? The Assault penalty for using equipment? Nowhere because it's stupid to stifle diversity. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4826	Posted - 2014.10.13 17:52:00 - [23493] - Quote Spademan wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Why not? I do see that the penalties do affect scouts more (=% on ># =>penalty), but I do think that that'll satisfy the bloodthirsty "nerf whatever killed me" cries. And lets be honest for a second. If you are running plates with more than a 1% speed penalty on a scout, you're kinda fucking yourself over. Because there's no logic to the thought process, and doing things because it will shut up the idiots isn't sufficient justification. If tanking is in the domain of the heavy, then Ewar is in the domain of the scouts. If one gets penalties for using modules in the others domain then logically it should work both ways. So where are the penalties for heavies when using ewar? Where is the logi penalty for using weapons? The Assault penalty for using equipment? Nowhere because it's stupid to stifle diversity. I want to know why an Amar Logi can get away with running other equipment besides UplinksGÇª it's an uplink suit it should have to fit them for balance KRRROOOOOOM
Alder King 101	Posted - 2014.10.13 18:18:00 - [23494] - Quote I really think that if you took away the jump impairment from plates and put the speed penalty on Proto to 7%, 5% for advance and 3% for basic. It'd be good. By there was a huge reason that it got dropped from the original 10% . . . Also sucked when when multiple plates jump modifier started stacking. There are Judy way to many ******* places where a heavy, or commando, out even logi can't get out of because of that penalty and the lack of smooth movement over terrain Alder King? More like drag king.
Alder King 101	Posted - 2014.10.13 18:23:00 - [23495] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Question to all you pc vets. On what maps is it faster to run to the city instead of taking a dropship? On a more related note, I'm all for greater penalties on plates as long as ferros and reactives aren't touched. Maybe shield extenders could also get their current penalty replaced with one to scan profile? Depends. If you want to load your dropship with allies, every map except skim junction faster with a Scout. If you're solo flying then dropship is always faster Alder King? More like drag king.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4780	Posted - 2014.10.13 19:30:00 - [23496] - Quote Alder King wrote: I really think that if you took away the jump impairment from plates and put the speed penalty on Proto to 7%, 5% for advance and 3% for basic. It'd be good. But there was a huge reason that it got dropped from the original 10% . . . Also sucked when when multiple plates jump modifier started stacking. There are just way to many ******* places where a heavy, or commando, or even logi can't get out of because of that penalty and the lack of smooth movement over terrain The problem is that jumping is based on speed with current mechanics. In order to reduce speed while not decreasing jump height, or increasing jump height without increasing speed would mean a whole rework of the system or making scouts jump ridiculously high and creating more problems. I don't mind a scout only penalty if that is possible, just to regular armor plates. @ Adipem If you make scan profile 99dB, while cloaked, it effectively does the same amount of damage to hacking as making range 0. The only benefit it would have is that we could still hunt EQ. Hacking-wise, I would be a sitting duck without any idea of whether someone was coming or not. shudders You can always tell a Millford Minja
Appia Nappia 1336	Posted - 2014.10.13 19:41:00 - [23497] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Alder King wrote: I really think that if you took away the jump impairment from plates and put the speed penalty on Proto to 7%, 5% for advance and 3% for basic. It'd be good. But there was a huge reason that it got dropped from the original 10% . . . Also sucked when when multiple plates jump modifier started stacking. There are just way to many ******* places where a heavy, or commando, or even logi can't get out of because of that penalty and the lack of smooth movement over terrain The problem is that jumping is based on speed with current mechanics. In order to reduce speed while not decreasing jump height, or increasing jump height without increasing speed would mean a whole rework of the system or making scouts jump ridiculously high and creating more problems. I don't mind a scout only penalty if that is possible, just to regular armor plates. sighs mCharProp.movementRun.jumpSpeed mCharProp.movementSprint.jumpSpeed Those, OEK, are what I was talking about. They also stack and without penalty. At one point in time the game only applied the highest value a single time. They're properties of armor plates, there's no "whole rework" required as it's the exact same as changing the damage on a rifle or any of the other various changes in the hotfixes that have just be adjusting values. So very tired
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4782	Posted - 2014.10.13 19:59:00 - [23498] - Quote Appia Nappia wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Alder King wrote: I really think that if you took away the jump impairment from plates and put the speed penalty on Proto to 7%, 5% for advance and 3% for basic. It'd be good. But there was a huge reason that it got dropped from the original 10% . . . Also sucked when when multiple plates jump modifier started stacking. There are just way to many ******* places where a heavy, or commando, or even logi can't get out of because of that penalty and the lack of smooth movement over terrain The problem is that jumping is based on speed with current mechanics. In order to reduce speed while not decreasing jump height, or increasing jump height without increasing speed would mean a whole rework of the system or making scouts jump ridiculously high and creating more problems. I don't mind a scout only penalty if that is possible, just to regular armor plates. sighs mCharProp.movementRun.jumpSpeed mCharProp.movementSprint.jumpSpeed Those, OEK, are what I was talking about. They also stack and without penalty. At one point in time the game only applied the highest value a single time. They're properties of armor plates, there's no "whole rework" required as it's the exact same as changing the damage on a rifle or any of the other various changes in the hotfixes that have just be adjusting values. If that is all it takes then, I am down. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5863	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:00:00 - [23499] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: @ Adipem 1) If you make scan profile 99dB, while cloaked, it effectively does the same amount of damage to hacking as making range 0. The only benefit it would have is that we could still hunt EQ. 2) Hacking-wise, I would be a sitting duck without any idea of whether someone was coming or not. shudders 1) No no! Scan Precision (not Profile) goes to 99 dB when cloaked. So you can't see anything. Except for equipment and perhaps vehicles, installations, etc. 2) Correct. Can't think of how to work around this. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Appia Nappia 1337	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:08:00 - [23500] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: One Eyed King wrote: @ Adipem 1) If you make scan profile 99dB, while cloaked, it effectively does the same amount of damage to hacking as making range 0. The only benefit it would have is that we could still hunt EQ. 2) Hacking-wise, I would be a sitting duck without any idea of whether someone was coming or not. shudders 1) No no! Scan Precision (not Profile) goes to 99 dB when cloaked. So you can't see anything. Except for equipment and perhaps vehicles, installations, etc. 2) Correct. Can't think of how to work around this. Percentage based penalty to precision of +20% for STD, +30% ADV, and +40% PRO Which is basically 2 precision enhancers of equal tier to cloak With precision enhancers you get your base scan precision, without a medium frame with profile dampening 1 can sneak up on you. So very tired

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4783	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:09:00 - [23501] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: One Eyed King wrote: @ Adipem 1) If you make scan profile 99dB, while cloaked, it effectively does the same amount of damage to hacking as making range 0. The only benefit it would have is that we could still hunt EQ. 2) Hacking-wise, I would be a sitting duck without any idea of whether someone was coming or not. shudders 1) No no! Scan Precision (not Profile) goes to 99 dB when cloaked. So you can't see anything. Except for equipment and perhaps vehicles, installations, etc. 2) Correct. Can't think of how to work around this. 1) I meant precision and said profile. Oops. 2) Ok You can always tell a Millford Minja
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5863	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:24:00 - [23502] - Quote Conceptual Profile / Precision Tweaks: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1haDO5a9Y6eOD6xzY49HhlkHLktRYcQQ382jqR6HxpIo/edit#gid=0 For Haerr's Cloak Concept Cloak - Active Effect: Remove dampening bonus Cloak - Active Effect: Set user scan precision = 99 dB Equipment, Vehicles, Installations: Set scan profile >= 99 dB Profile Dampeners: Buff by 3% CA Scout - Racial Dampening Bonus: 3% --> 4% For Anti-Assault-Lite Scanners Prototype Active Scanners: 28 dB --> 25 dB Standard Active Scanners: 46 dB --> 44 dB For Sneakier Assault Assault Frames - Scan Profile: 50 dB --> 45 dB Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2563	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:32:00 - [23503] - Quote Right away--If the above^^were to take place, Min scouts couldn't use a single codebreaker or Kincat in a PC. Thats not fair at all. EDIT: I may have algebra'd wrong...one sec. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5864	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:35:00 - [23504] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Right away--If the above^^were to take place, Min scouts couldn't use a single codebreaker or Kincat in a PC. Thats not fair at all. EDIT: I may have algebra'd wrong...one sec. Use my math. Its in the spreadsheet. MinScout + 2 damps comes to 17 dB (constant). Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
hfderrtgvcd 785	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:35:00 - [23505] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Conceptual Profile / Precision Tweaks: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1haDO5a9Y6eOD6xzY49HhlkHLktRYcQQ382jqR6HxpIo/edit#gid=0 For Haerr's Cloak Concept Cloak - Active Effect: Remove dampening bonus Cloak - Active Effect: Set user scan precision = 99 dB Equipment, Vehicles, Installations: Set scan profile >= 99 dB Profile Dampeners: Buff by 3% CA Scout - Racial Dampening Bonus: 3% --> 4% For Anti-Assault-Lite Scanners Prototype Active Scanners: 28 dB --> 25 dB Standard Active Scanners: 46 dB --> 44 dB For Sneakier Assault Assault Frames - Scan Profile: 50 dB --> 45 dB At first glance, low-dB EWAR interplay is largely held constant. A 'bit to comb over in one pass ... what problems are standing out for you guys? curious what the rationale is behind this and why you aren't changing the gal's bonus as well. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5865	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:40:00 - [23506] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Conceptual Profile / Precision Tweaks: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1haDO5a9Y6eOD6xzY49HhlkHLktRYcQQ382jqR6HxpIo/edit#gid=0 For Haerr's Cloak Concept Cloak - Active Effect: Remove dampening bonus Cloak - Active Effect: Set user scan precision = 99 dB Equipment, Vehicles, Installations: Set scan profile >= 99 dB Profile Dampeners: Buff by 3% CA Scout - Racial Dampening Bonus: 3% --> 4% For Anti-Assault-Lite Scanners Prototype Active Scanners: 28 dB --> 25 dB Standard Active Scanners: 46 dB --> 44 dB For Sneakier Assault Assault Frames - Scan Profile: 50 dB --> 45 dB At first glance, low-dB EWAR interplay is largely held constant. A 'bit to comb over in one pass ... what problems are standing out for you guys? curious what the rationale is behind this and why you aren't changing the gal's bonus as well. Yes, of course. Presently, it is possible for each Scout to beat 15 dB baseline. The 1% adjustment to Caldari allows us to retain current baseline precision/profile interplay. The alternative was a greater buff to profile dampeners, but this created potential balance issues with the GA Scout. Again, the impetus behind these changes is to compensate for Haerr's cloak proposal. This is all conceptual ... just looking for flaws :-) Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Appia Nappia 1337	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:43:00 - [23507] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Conceptual Profile / Precision Tweaks: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1haDO5a9Y6eOD6xzY49HhlkHLktRYcQQ382jqR6HxpIo/edit#gid=0 For Haerr's Cloak Concept Cloak - Active Effect: Remove dampening bonus Cloak - Active Effect: Set user scan precision = 99 dB Equipment, Vehicles, Installations: Set scan profile >= 99 dB Profile Dampeners: Buff by 3% CA Scout - Racial Dampening Bonus: 3% --> 4% For Anti-Assault-Lite Scanners Prototype Active Scanners: 28 dB --> 25 dB Standard Active Scanners: 46 dB --> 44 dB For Sneakier Assault Assault Frames - Scan Profile: 50 dB --> 45 dB At first glance, low-dB EWAR interplay is largely held constant. A 'bit to comb over in one pass ... what problems are standing out for you guys? curious what the rationale is behind this and why you aren't changing the gal's bonus as well. Yup. Gallente neds the racial dampening to 4% as well So very tired
Appia Nappia 1337	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:45:00 - [23508] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Conceptual Profile / Precision Tweaks: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1haDO5a9Y6eOD6xzY49HhlkHLktRYcQQ382jqR6HxpIo/edit#gid=0 For Haerr's Cloak Concept Cloak - Active Effect: Remove dampening bonus Cloak - Active Effect: Set user scan precision = 99 dB Equipment, Vehicles, Installations: Set scan profile >= 99 dB Profile Dampeners: Buff by 3% CA Scout - Racial Dampening Bonus: 3% --> 4% For Anti-Assault-Lite Scanners Prototype Active Scanners: 28 dB --> 25 dB Standard Active Scanners: 46 dB --> 44 dB For Sneakier Assault Assault Frames - Scan Profile: 50 dB --> 45 dB At first glance, low-dB EWAR interplay is largely held constant. A 'bit to comb over in one pass ... what problems are standing out for you guys? curious what the rationale is behind this and why you aren't changing the gal's bonus as well. Yes, of course. Presently, it is possible for each Scout to beat 15 dB baseline. The 1% adjustment to Caldari allows us to retain current baseline precision/profile interplay. The alternative was a greater buff to profile dampeners, but this created potential balance issues with the GA Scout. What balance issues what that be? Taking away dampening bonus means the gallente now need more modules to beat 15db than the caldari, effectively rendering the bonuses useless as it gives no benefit over AM/MN when dampening. You're either giving the Caldari a free slot or making it less restrictive to run over the other suits, or you're penalizing the Gallente for no sound reason So very tired
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4831	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:47:00 - [23509] - Quote Appia Nappia wrote: Yup. Gallente neds the racial dampening to 4% as well Ned is OPGÇª nerf Appia's Phone KRRROOOOOOM
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5866	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:50:00 - [23510] - Quote Appia Nappia wrote: Yup. Gallente neds the racial dampening to 4% as well In the proposed model, the number of damps needed to beat focused scans is unchanged from the present. The GalScout cannot presently beat the Focused Scanner with two damps. At 4% per level, the GalScout can beat the Focused Scanner with two damps. We're not trying to sneak in a GalScout buff :-) @ 4% per level, he goes to 18 / 14 / 12 for Damps 1-3. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

mollerz 5550	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:50:00 - [23511] - Quote I can see HAerr's intent, but it kind of fucks the whole minja scout assasin concept. Also, if it were to go HAerr's way and eyeballs truly became king, then you'd have to at least ditch the blue glow. In addition, I think we should campaign to have the cloak not make you deaf when you are cloaked. That was always a dumb concept. I'm seriously fukn serious
Appia Nappia 1340	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:51:00 - [23512] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: Yup. Gallente neds the racial dampening to 4% as well The GalScout cannot presently beat the Focused Scanner with two damps. At 4% per level, the GalScout can beat the Focused Scanner with two damps. We're not trying to sneak in a GalScout buff :-) @ 4% per level, he goes to 18 / 14 / 12 for Damps 1-3. Yet, you're willing to buff the Caldari scout. Racial parity with the ******* dampening bonus. It was the Gallente Scout's to begin with, no reason the Gallente Scout should have a shittier version of both dampening and precision at the same time. So very tired
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2564	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:52:00 - [23513] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Right away--If the above^^were to take place, Min scouts couldn't use a single codebreaker or Kincat in a PC. Thats not fair at all. EDIT: I may have algebra'd wrong...one sec. Use my math. Its in the spreadsheet. MinScout + 2 damps comes to 17 dB (constant). but doesn't that go to them getting scanned by Amarr? "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2564	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:55:00 - [23514] - Quote Appia Nappia wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: Yup. Gallente neds the racial dampening to 4% as well The GalScout cannot presently beat the Focused Scanner with two damps. At 4% per level, the GalScout can beat the Focused Scanner with two damps. We're not trying to sneak in a GalScout buff :-) @ 4% per level, he goes to 18 / 14 / 12 for Damps 1-3. Yet, you're willing to buff the Caldari scout. Racial parity with the ******* dampening bonus. It was the Gallente Scout's to begin with, no reason the Gallente Scout should have a shittier version of both dampening and precision at the same time. Id be fine with a slight gal scout buff, mainly because 2 dampeners is a solid investment into dampening...if your scout is the dampening scout it seems fair. Those 2 low slots that it gains allow it to use biotics range amps or light plates. Personally, RN, my Gal scout fitting (alt) is 2x shields, 2x damps, 2x Kincats. This wouldn't change it. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5866	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:56:00 - [23515] - Quote Appia Nappia wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: Yup. Gallente neds the racial dampening to 4% as well The GalScout cannot presently beat the Focused Scanner with two damps. At 4% per level, the GalScout can beat the Focused Scanner with two damps. We're not trying to sneak in a GalScout buff :-) @ 4% per level, he goes to 18 / 14 / 12 for Damps 1-3. Yet, you're willing to buff the Caldari scout. Racial parity with the ******* dampening bonus. It was the Gallente Scout's to begin with, no reason the Gallente Scout should have a shittier version of both dampening and precision at the same time. The 1% change allows us to maintain status quo (i.e. # slots req'd) at the low end of the spectrum. I'm not looking to buff the CalScout. Is it saving a slot somewhere up higher in the spectrum? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5866	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:58:00 - [23516] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Right away--If the above^^were to take place, Min scouts couldn't use a single codebreaker or Kincat in a PC. Thats not fair at all. EDIT: I may have algebra'd wrong...one sec. Use my math. Its in the spreadsheet. MinScout + 2 damps comes to 17 dB (constant). but doesn't that go to them getting scanned by Amarr? No, Gav. 18 dB is still the max Amarr Scan. Precision values were unchanged. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2564	Posted - 2014.10.13 21:03:00 - [23517] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: In some ways, wouldn't this be an indirect nerf to Amarr scanning? As it stands, if I have 2 Damps and a proto cloak, I have to have my cloak active for an Amarr not to pick me up. If we made this change, I would simply just beat the Amarr. There would be no penalty for deactivating cloak or running out of juice. Am I reading that wrong? Good point. Wed also see a lot more shield tanking as precision would once again be pretty much useless on anything that planned on using a cloak "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5866	Posted - 2014.10.13 21:03:00 - [23518] - Quote OK! Added sheet "Baseline" ... it explains better how I reached the target values. Green boxes mean no change. I chose parameters which maximized the number of green boxes. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1haDO5a9Y6eOD6xzY49HhlkHLktRYcQQ382jqR6HxpIo/edit?usp=sharing Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Appia Nappia 1340	Posted - 2014.10.13 21:10:00 - [23519] - Quote Current Model: 2 complex dampeners + proto cloak < 15dB for Gal/Cal 3 complex dampenre + proto cloak < 15dB for AM/MN Proposed model: 2 COmplex Dampeners < 15dB for Cal 3 Complex Dampeners < 15dB for AM/GA/MN Max Precision: 15- Gallente Logistics with Focused Scanner 18- Amarr Scout with 2 Precsion Enhancers 20- Focused Scanner, Caldari Scout with 4 Precision ENhancers 21- Gallente Scout with 2 Precision ENhancers 22- Minmatar Scout with 3 Precision Enhancers 24- Gallente Logistisc with Prototype Scanner The Caldari Scout excels at Dampening and has the highest base scan range The Minmatar Scout sacrifices Ewar capabilities for Assassin weapon and fastest hack speed The Amarr Scout excels at Precision and then we have the Gallente Scout that no longer has a single strong point So very tired
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5866	Posted - 2014.10.13 21:14:00 - [23520] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: In some ways, wouldn't this be an indirect nerf to Amarr scanning? As it stands, if I have 2 Damps and a proto cloak, I have to have my cloak active for an Amarr not to pick me up. If we made this change, I would simply just beat the Amarr. There would be no penalty for deactivating cloak or running out of juice. Am I reading that wrong? Good question ... let's work it out: With 2 cPEs, the AM Scout scans at 18 dB. CA/GA Scouts currently need 2 damps to dodge. MN/AM Scouts currently need 2 damps and an adv cloak to dodge. Proposed system: All Scouts need 2 damps to dodge (as cloak bonus is removed). MN/AM Scouts retain the ability to beat his scans using two slots. If we required them to use three, that'd be a serious nerf. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley



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