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CCP Rattati wrote:

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

Numbers aren't final, chip in your thoughts. I am worried though about the "Bolt pistol is fine", vs bolt pistol needs a big buff.

Moody is 2 and 3 shotting people at 60 m in his review and that's pretty good.

what about a headshot dmg and nothing else?

I personally say that the RoF needs to be increased, or the amount of time between shots decreased. The people being 2-3 shotted are more likely than not scouts or weak mediums.

Id say that a HS multiplier would be nice too tho, and perhaps we can work from there.

The real DPS of the bolt pistol is something around 250 IIRC, because of charge time stacking on top of delay between shots.

Also, PLEASE reconsider the flay lock fitting nerf. Minmatar suits are low PG high CPU suits, so it makes no sense that our pistol should have a higher PG cost than the Gallente (High PG low CPU) ion pistol.

Please return the PG back to where it was, and perhaps raise CPU a bit.

The weapon is in so dire need of a buff (even more than ion IMHO due to its low mag size as well as not being hit scan), that it would honestly be fine to just buff it and call it a day. The increased projectile speed with minimal splash radius buff and low mag size will make it a skillshot weapon already, making a fitting nerf a poor choice.

The pirate minja should be a thing, IMHO, and with the still poor fitting capabilities of the suit, the huge PG costs of the flay lock will castrate the build's viability before it could even come out.

It needs PG though, that is a requirement of any balance pass we make, to stop with the zero PG/CPU. It's too messy. The "it's a Minmatar Weapon so needs low PG" is also very hard to balance, since any race can use it. But I hear you, we can maybe tone it down.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Haerr Legio DXIV 1393	Posted - 2014.09.16 16:23:00 - [21991] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Haerr wrote: I am trying out the Caldari Scout at the moment, it's shield recharge is pretty neat but I still prefer the Gallente GÇö being able to dampen and use greens and reds is just plain nice. :-) I agree; Gallente is still the best. But have you tried the Cal with two Range Extenders? Just unlocked Amarr 3 ... plan to take it to 5 following MCC2 :-) Oh yes the Cal with 2cRA and a Laser Rifle is pretty funny! :-) ·
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4912	Posted - 2014.09.16 17:37:00 - [21992] - Quote @ Ghost Flaylock is going to be tough to fit on Minja Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
icdedppul PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 180	Posted - 2014.09.16 18:53:00 - [21993] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Just unlocked Amarr 3 ... plan to take it to 5 following MCC2 :-) Don't really like the amarr. So slow Still use it when the other side is spamming shotgun scouts and I want to ruin their day. But seems like it's still missing something. Maybe it's the whole armour tanking thing I don't like
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4147	Posted - 2014.09.16 19:24:00 - [21994] - Quote I am thinking of creating a "Suit of Death" for the event. Something fun with a side of suicidal. Most likely, STD NKs on a M-1 and a couple Complex Kincats, and whatever else I can fit on there for funsies. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3620	Posted - 2014.09.16 19:44:00 - [21995] - Quote ~~The Ion pistol is getting shorter range? What?~~ Misread. And hey, .13 extra damage at proto...yay.... DPS is good and all, but I love the charging, and it's just as meh as before, bleh. Happy about the Assault Smg and ScP being made actually different rather than better. Probably shouldn't show my face when noob's around though... I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Immortal John Ripper 24641	Posted - 2014.09.16 20:55:00 - [21996] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Brothers! If you've got a one day booster handy, fire it up anytime after downtime Friday but prior to downtime Saturday. Three day boosters can be activated as usual following downtime Wednesday. More details. Event Page: http://dust514.com/events/mcc2/ @ Destiny Peoples ... You've got plenty of time to beat that game between now and its next expansion pack. So how 'bout taking a breather and pitching in with your old pals for a few Ambush matches this weekend? Wreck face for the noobs! Wreck face for Jaceon's mk.0! PS: If you're broke, Iggy will give you Isk. If you're broke because GJR scammed you, Iggy will still give you Isk :-) I'm broke as a joke. Sorry I scammed. I decided to donate all scammed isk to needy Minmatar children. Tell me your sad minmatar story for it.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 17755	Posted - 2014.09.16 20:58:00 - [21997] - Quote Ion pistol changes are fairly meh apart from the hipfire accuracy buff, which depending on how big it is could be great for the weapon. It's not going to be much above subpar but it'll be more viable than it was. The forums have ruined me.
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3622	Posted - 2014.09.16 21:04:00 - [21998] - Quote Immortal John Ripper wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Brothers! If you've got a one day booster handy, fire it up anytime after downtime Friday but prior to downtime Saturday. Three day boosters can be activated as usual following downtime Wednesday. More details. Event Page: http://dust514.com/events/mcc2/ @ Destiny Peoples ... You've got plenty of time to beat that game between now and its next expansion pack. So how 'bout taking a breather and pitching in with your old pals for a few Ambush matches this weekend? Wreck face for the noobs! Wreck face for Jaceon's mk.0! PS: If you're broke, Iggy will give you Isk. If you're broke because GJR scammed you, Iggy will still give you Isk :-) I'm broke as a joke. Is it because you do coke? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3622	Posted - 2014.09.16 21:05:00 - [21999] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ion pistol changes are fairly meh apart from the hipfire accuracy buff, which depending on how big it is could be great for the weapon. It's not going to be much above subpar but it'll be more viable than it was. Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed with it. I'd like to know what the heat changes are though. Perhaps we could negotiate a damage tweak tomorrow if the numbers aren't final? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5113	Posted - 2014.09.16 21:21:00 - [22000] - Quote Word to your mother whom cooked me breakfast yum yum Bojo For CPM
Immortal John Ripper 24644	Posted - 2014.09.16 21:24:00 - [22001] - Quote Spademan wrote: Immortal John Ripper wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Brothers! If you've got a one day booster handy, fire it up anytime after downtime Friday but prior to downtime Saturday. Three day boosters can be activated as usual following downtime Wednesday. More details. Event Page: http://dust514.com/events/mcc2/ @ Destiny Peoples ... You've got plenty of time to beat that game between now and its next expansion pack. So how 'bout taking a breather and pitching in with your old pals for a few Ambush matches this weekend? Wreck face for the noobs! Wreck face for Jaceon's mk.0! PS: If you're broke, Iggy will give you Isk. If you're broke because GJR scammed you, Iggy will still give you Isk :-) I'm broke as a joke. Is it because you do coke? I also smoke. Donating all scammed isk to needy Matari. Tell me your sad story for it.
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 472	Posted - 2014.09.16 21:27:00 - [22002] - Quote The lack of major bolt pistol buffs saddens me :( Stabby-stabber extraordinaire
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3622	Posted - 2014.09.16 21:32:00 - [22003] - Quote I'm not sure it needs a large buff, it feels really good when I use it as is. But hey, things can always be tweaked when needed. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
hfderrtgvcd 401	Posted - 2014.09.16 22:29:00 - [22004] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: The lack of major bolt pistol buffs saddens me :( It's because Rattati forgot to account for the charge time when calculating dps. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Bayeth Mal Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1522	Posted - 2014.09.16 22:45:00 - [22005] - Quote Spademan wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: PS: If you're broke, Iggy will give you Isk. If you're broke because GJR scammed you, Iggy will still give you Isk :-) I'm sitting at 45 Mil. But I want more. I have nothing to do with it, I just want to see that number grow larger. I don't know why. I got up from 30mil to 120mil grinding Ambushes at the start of the year in BPO fits. All through 1.7 I was mostly running a 2k isk suit. I remember being able to fit (for PG/CPU) a better module but it was going to double the cost of my suit so went "nah, I'll stick with Militia". We'll bang, OK?
Bayeth Mal Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1522	Posted - 2014.09.16 22:46:00 - [22006] - Quote This is probably the best review of the whole Destiny hubbub I've seen. http://www.vg247.com/2014/09/15/destiny-review/ We'll bang, OK?
mollerz 5342	Posted - 2014.09.16 22:50:00 - [22007] - Quote I'm pretty horrified by the fact that Destiny has a ******* sprint bug as well. FML. I'm seriously fukn serious
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2337	Posted - 2014.09.16 23:55:00 - [22008] - Quote Flaylock got a nerf for ninjas....its now 4 6 10 in PG usage which is ridiculous. I was looking forward to being able to use a proto weapon on my ninja for once :( "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7227	Posted - 2014.09.16 23:59:00 - [22009] - Quote Spademan wrote: ~~The Ion pistol is getting shorter range? What?~~ Misread. And hey, .13 extra damage at proto...yay.... DPS is good and all, but I love the charging, and it's just as meh as before, bleh. Happy about the Assault Smg and ScP being made actually different rather than better. Probably shouldn't show my face when noob's around though... Also really happy with the Bolt pistol, didn't get much changes and I really don't think it needed much. But it's looking nice. We are reducing the heat buildup, to get a charge off and maybe 2 followups "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4152	Posted - 2014.09.16 23:59:00 - [22010] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Flaylock got a nerf for ninjas....its now 4 6 10 in PG usage which is ridiculous. I was looking forward to being able to use a proto weapon on my ninja for once :( I can run a proto knife on my M-1 with a PG enhancer. I don't see a real problem here. You can always tell a Millford Minja

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7228	Posted - 2014.09.17 00:01:00 - [22011] - Quote Numbers aren't final, chip in your thoughts. I am worried though about the "Bolt pistol is fine", vs bolt pistol needs a big buff. Moody is 2 and 3 shotting people at 60 m in his review and that's pretty good. what about a headshot dmg and nothing else? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2337	Posted - 2014.09.17 00:02:00 - [22012] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Flaylock got a nerf for ninjas....its now 4 6 10 in PG usage which is ridiculous. I was looking forward to being able to use a proto weapon on my ninja for once :( I can run a proto knife on my M-1 with a PG enhancer. I don't see a real problem here. With a PG enhancer, every gal amarr or even caldari scout worth their salt will scan you. PG enhancer only really work on assaults and Logis which have the slots to spare. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1148	Posted - 2014.09.17 00:03:00 - [22013] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Spademan wrote: ~~The Ion pistol is getting shorter range? What?~~ Misread. And hey, .13 extra damage at proto...yay.... DPS is good and all, but I love the charging, and it's just as meh as before, bleh. Happy about the Assault Smg and ScP being made actually different rather than better. Probably shouldn't show my face when noob's around though... Also really happy with the Bolt pistol, didn't get much changes and I really don't think it needed much. But it's looking nice. We are reducing the heat buildup, to get a charge off and maybe 2 followups I dabble in Gassault with this toon (right-wing), running Gek and ADV IonP. NOT seizing after a single charge shot will be a novel concept! :D Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4152	Posted - 2014.09.17 00:04:00 - [22014] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Flaylock got a nerf for ninjas....its now 4 6 10 in PG usage which is ridiculous. I was looking forward to being able to use a proto weapon on my ninja for once :( I can run a proto knife on my M-1 with a PG enhancer. I don't see a real problem here. With a PG enhancer, every gal amarr or even caldari scout worth their salt will scan you. PG enhancer only really work on assaults and Logis which have the slots to spare. Only if they have precision. In which case I upgrade to a M/1 and go unscannable. That is how the game is supposed to work. One makes a sacrifice to scan, the other has to compensate. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2337	Posted - 2014.09.17 00:08:00 - [22015] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Numbers aren't final, chip in your thoughts. I am worried though about the "Bolt pistol is fine", vs bolt pistol needs a big buff. Moody is 2 and 3 shotting people at 60 m in his review and that's pretty good. what about a headshot dmg and nothing else? I personally say that the RoF needs to be increased, or the amount of time between shots decreased. The people being 2-3 shotted are more likely than not scouts or weak mediums. Id say that a HS multiplier would be nice too tho, and perhaps we can work from there. The real DPS of the bolt pistol is something around 250 IIRC, because of charge time stacking on top of delay between shots. Also, PLEASE reconsider the flay lock fitting nerf. Minmatar suits are low PG high CPU suits, so it makes no sense that our pistol should have a higher PG cost than the Gallente (High PG low CPU) ion pistol. Please return the PG back to where it was, and perhaps raise CPU a bit. The weapon is in so dire need of a buff (even more than ion IMHO due to its low mag size as well as not being hit scan), that it would honestly be fine to just buff it and call it a day. The increased projectile speed with minimal splash radius buff and low mag size will make it a skillshot weapon already, making a fitting nerf a poor choice. The pirate minja should be a thing, IMHO, and with the still poor fitting capabilities of the suit, the huge PG costs of the flay lock will castrate the build's viability before it could even come out. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7229	Posted - 2014.09.17 00:13:00 - [22016] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Numbers aren't final, chip in your thoughts. I am worried though about the "Bolt pistol is fine", vs bolt pistol needs a big buff. Moody is 2 and 3 shotting people at 60 m in his review and that's pretty good. what about a headshot dmg and nothing else? I personally say that the RoF needs to be increased, or the amount of time between shots decreased. The people being 2-3 shotted are more likely than not scouts or weak mediums. Id say that a HS multiplier would be nice too tho, and perhaps we can work from there. The real DPS of the bolt pistol is something around 250 IIRC, because of charge time stacking on top of delay between shots. Also, PLEASE reconsider the flay lock fitting nerf. Minmatar suits are low PG high CPU suits, so it makes no sense that our pistol should have a higher PG cost than the Gallente (High PG low CPU) ion pistol. Please return the PG back to where it was, and perhaps raise CPU a bit. The weapon is in so dire need of a buff (even more than ion IMHO due to its low mag size as well as not being hit scan), that it would honestly be fine to just buff it and call it a day. The increased projectile speed with minimal splash radius buff and low mag size will make it a skillshot weapon already, making a fitting nerf a poor choice. The pirate minja should be a thing, IMHO, and with the still poor fitting capabilities of the suit, the huge PG costs of the flay lock will castrate the build's viability before it could even come out. It needs PG though, that is a requirement of any balance pass we make, to stop with the zero PG/CPU. It's too messy. The "it's a Minmatar Weapon so needs low PG" is also very hard to balance, since any race can use it. But I hear you, we can maybe tone it down. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2339	Posted - 2014.09.17 00:19:00 - [22017] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Numbers aren't final, chip in your thoughts. I am worried though about the "Bolt pistol is fine", vs bolt pistol needs a big buff. Moody is 2 and 3 shotting people at 60 m in his review and that's pretty good. what about a headshot dmg and nothing else? I personally say that the RoF needs to be increased, or the amount of time between shots decreased. The people being 2-3 shotted are more likely than not scouts or weak mediums. Id say that a HS multiplier would be nice too tho, and perhaps we can work from there. The real DPS of the bolt pistol is something around 250 IIRC, because of charge time stacking on top of delay between shots. Also, PLEASE reconsider the flay lock fitting nerf. Minmatar suits are low PG high CPU suits, so it makes no sense that our pistol should have a higher PG cost than the Gallente (High PG low CPU) ion pistol. Please return the PG back to where it was, and perhaps raise CPU a bit. The weapon is in so dire need of a buff (even more than ion IMHO due to its low mag size as well as not being hit scan), that it would honestly be fine to just buff it and call it a day. The increased projectile speed with minimal splash radius buff and low mag size will make it a skillshot weapon already, making a fitting nerf a poor choice. The pirate minja should be a thing, IMHO, and with the still poor fitting capabilities of the suit, the huge PG costs of the flay lock will castrate the build's viability before it could even come out. It needs PG though, that is a requirement of any balance pass we make, to stop with the zero PG/CPU. It's too messy. The "it's a Minmatar Weapon so needs low PG" is also very hard to balance, since any race can use it. But I hear you, we can maybe tone it down. That'd be great...if the progression went 2-3-5 and CPU costs were increased a lot, I think that'd be fair, though I agree, its a difficult thing to balance. But think about it as a SA PLC....that thing actually has no PG costs, but the CPU is very high. If you make it like that, it fits minmitar suits like a charm, which IMHO is the ideal situation, each weapons fittings playing to their respective race's suits' fitting strengths. If anything though, it should cost less PG than the ion pistol and ScrP...thats just something that strikes me as very inconsistent that the race with the lowest PG and highest CPU has a higher PG costing weapon that the races with the highest PG... Just food for thought. Good luck on the decision, Ill try to keep my feedback as unbiased and analytical as possible Thanks for working with us Rattati "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1151	Posted - 2014.09.17 00:19:00 - [22018] - Quote I know I came at your neck a little about my Charge SR, Rattati, but overall I appreciate the give-and-take engagement/discussion with the playerbase. o7 Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4919	Posted - 2014.09.17 00:31:00 - [22019] - Quote Suddenly Jace is being civil and Gav is talking sense. WTF. Agreed on dialing back Flaylock PG. Agreed on slight increase to Bolt Pistol RoF. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
mollerz 5344	Posted - 2014.09.17 01:17:00 - [22020] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Flaylock got a nerf for ninjas....its now 4 6 10 in PG usage which is ridiculous. I was looking forward to being able to use a proto weapon on my ninja for once :( I only used the Specialist adv flaylock (GN-20) because... it was all I could ******* fit! Not because it was a bad ass weapon of death. pwn3d. For a race of people so dependent, militarily, upon PG hungry modules in their dropsuits, you'd think they'd be smart enough to manufacture a suit with the correct level of power generation. I'm seriously fukn serious

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