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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 178 post(s) |
Spademan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
3404
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Posted - 2014.08.31 22:48:00 -
[21241] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:They wouldn't even be a footnote in this discussion if the sniper rifle had the power to actually kill another sniper
But should that sniper rifle be necessary to kill someone with a sniper rifle?
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
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voidfaction
Nos Nothi
487
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Posted - 2014.08.31 22:50:00 -
[21242] - Quote
Not that it means anything but I think very high of Appia and Shotty on here. Between the 2 I don't have to post anything here as they do a VERY good job debating and presenting things that I favor.
Shotty does it in more of a peace keeping manner and Appia more forceful. They are both well spoken and present themselves well.
Appia I am sorry
You are more like how I would be if I could put the words out correctly.
Stupid, idiot, dumb are big pet peaves and set me off. Those are 3 words I will punish my kids for more so than using bad words.
Yes I am illiterate as hell and come out like i'm raging most of the time but I don't mean to come out that way its just I lack the ability of expressing myself well in text or speech. I can do and show much easier than tell. |
Spademan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
3406
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 22:53:00 -
[21243] - Quote
voidfaction wrote:Shotty does it in more of a peace keeping manner
Unless it has anything to do with vehicles 
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
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Cass Caul
1035
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Posted - 2014.08.31 22:57:00 -
[21244] - Quote
voidfaction wrote:Not that it means anything but I think very high of Appia and Shotty on here. Between the 2 I don't have to post anything here as they do a VERY good job debating and presenting things that I favor.
Shotty does it in more of a peace keeping manner and Appia more forceful. They are both well spoken and present themselves well.
Appia I am sorry
You are more like how I would be if I could put the words out correctly.
Stupid, idiot, dumb are big pet peaves and set me off. Those are 3 words I will punish my kids for more so than using bad words.
Yes I am illiterate as hell and come out like i'm raging most of the time but I don't mean to come out that way its just I lack the ability of expressing myself well in text or speech. I can do and show much easier than tell.
First rule of forums, don't apologize. Especially here. That's half the fun of it.
I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
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Cass Caul
1037
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Posted - 2014.08.31 22:59:00 -
[21245] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Cass Caul wrote:They wouldn't even be a footnote in this discussion if the sniper rifle had the power to actually kill another sniper But should that sniper rifle be necessary to kill someone with a sniper rifle?
No. But it should be ridiculously easy because of how overused and obvious those spots are. It's should be like taking candy from a baby. No, easier. It should be live moving a small blue dot on top of a picture of a head.
I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
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Spademan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
3406
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 23:03:00 -
[21246] - Quote
Alright, now how do we get those people out of the redline? Push the line back? Some kind of timer? An in ability to use the weapon inside the redline? Removal of headshot bonus whilst in the redline? (If that's even possible) Range reduction is out.
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
4678
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Posted - 2014.08.31 23:05:00 -
[21247] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:
First rule of forums, don't apologize. Especially here. That's half the fun of it.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Cass Caul
1040
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Posted - 2014.08.31 23:18:00 -
[21248] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Alright, now how do we get those people out of the redline? Push the line back? Some kind of timer? An in ability to use the weapon inside the redline? Removal of headshot bonus whilst in the redline? (If that's even possible) Range reduction is out.
a better way is to just redraw the redline so those people can't go so far behind the spawn point or MCC. The only real issue I've ever had with Redline snipers have been on Ashland, way up in the hills behind the MCC.
The second place is Line Harvest on the Attacker's side. The mountain in the back.
You know the best part about those 2 spots? They didn't exist in the Chromo version of the maps. When they flattened everything they created those new locations. The spot on Line Harvest used to be this huuuuge mountain that was higher up than the peak from Manus Peak. Ashland also had the hill in the back wrap around to where people usually go to climb it making it another place that was inaccessible.
The red-line spot snipers go in manus peak? You need a vehicle to do it but my Saga or Gorgon can get me in there, get a kill or two, jump back in and get out. Usually I die because I get greedy or I landed wrong or I hit a bump and my LAV rolled. 
But again. If a sniper could get killed in a single shot, they wouldn't all collect up there, they'd be forced to roam around so that a single counter-sniper doesn't just get a bunch of free kills.
They still did this when the Sniper could kill in a single shot, but those were the games I got 60+ kills in
I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2216
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Posted - 2014.08.31 23:32:00 -
[21249] - Quote
Snipers need to be killable by all weapons--thats just how it works. Every other role in the game (aside from vehicles) allows you to be killed by any weapon in the game. Why should equipping a specific weapon in your light weapon slot make you any different?
Look, personally, I wish they just removed the redline and made it so that if the enemy team got redlined, random spawns would appear on the map (OMS installations that would randomly drop already hacked). This would solve soooo many problems, and snipers wouldn't need a range reduction.
However, 600m is unnecessary, ridiculous, and allows for unfair gameplay for all parties involved. Being uncountable to everything other than suicide ADS runs is ridiculous, and defending that mechanic is moronic. The ability to be invulnerable to everything needs to be fixed. I acknowledge that snipers are in a terribad place right now, and are completely non-viable outside of pubs, but before they can be buffed into viability, the mechanics and meta themselves need to be fixed.
I do, however, support a HS multiplier buff so that heavies and slow moving mediums can be killed because pinging a couple head shots into them would be a lot easier, while scouts can be bodyshotted to death.
Following a range nerf, a damage buff would be a good follow up to a HS multiplier buff, IMHO.
Defending redline sniping is just like defending pre-nerf tanking--the only counter is to use it yourself.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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voidfaction
Nos Nothi
489
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Posted - 2014.08.31 23:39:00 -
[21250] - Quote
Spademan wrote:voidfaction wrote:Shotty does it in more of a peace keeping manner Unless it has anything to do with vehicles
Yes that is true. I don't complain much about vehicles because Shotty holds that front very well.
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Spademan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
3407
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Posted - 2014.08.31 23:39:00 -
[21251] - Quote
So Appia, you'd suggest having the popular sniping points within the redline covered by the redline for both teams?
Well that sounds good to me. And not outside possibility. (I believe it's possible for the redline to be moved)
I think this has been a productive session.
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
959
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Posted - 2014.08.31 23:53:00 -
[21252] - Quote
IWS, you're the worst at arguing, ever.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:OHK on the receiving end should be more of 'you were stupid and deserved it' and less of 'guy pointed a gun in your general direction. Like not seeing that RE there, you stood there thinking the plc shot is going to miss, you stood still for a forge or sniper to line up the cross hairs on you....
OHK on the giver's side should be because you put effort into it. lined up that perfect headshot,
This is what we want. This is not what we have.
IWS wrote:As back to needing that 600 meter range to avoid getting forged and yet still getting forged? Why in the hell did you let that guy get 300 meters on you? In theory you should be able to sanitize everything within 300 meters if you pay attention.
He got to within 300m because I wasn't in the red zone. And isn't snipers being in the red zone what you scrubs are all qqing about to begin with? I was out of the red zone so that I could influence the flow at multiple objectives on the map. A forge gunner picked out my location and OHK'd me. That's fair.
By influence the flow, I don't mean kill 30 MLT suits. I mean take out links up high, take out hives - especially rep hives, either kill Logi with headshots or, failing that, make them worry more about losing their proto suit to the sniper that just knocked him halfway through his armor in one shot than repping the Sentinel he's paired to. Popping that cloaked scout who's about to RE my teammates or shotgun them or knife them as they're trying to push a hardpointed objective. I mean calling out the locations of vehicles, trying to counter forge gunners and swarmers making life hell for my tankers and scaring my risk-averse ADS pilots.
If I'm stationary, and often a sniper - even a good sniper - will be, my range and my ability to find locations where it is best utilized are the only thing keeping me relevant to the outcome of the battle. Redline snipers don't have the ability to find good locations and are not relevant.
Jaceon Pale-eye.
And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
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Cass Caul
1041
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Posted - 2014.08.31 23:54:00 -
[21253] - Quote
Spademan wrote:So Appia, you'd suggest having the popular sniping points within the redline covered by the redline for both teams?
Well that sounds good to me. And not outside possibility. (I believe it's possible for the redline to be moved)
I think this has been a productive session.
Not the popular ones, just the ones too far back to run to, shoot them, and run back 
I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
959
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Posted - 2014.08.31 23:55:00 -
[21254] - Quote
And seriously, talking about "game balance" to nerf an exploit of a bad mechanic, without talking about the mechanic itself, is a horrible appoach. And in case anyone is confused, the bad mechanic is the red zone itself.
Jaceon Pale-eye.
And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16270
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Posted - 2014.09.01 00:00:00 -
[21255] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:Spademan wrote:Alright, now how do we get those people out of the redline? Push the line back? Some kind of timer? An in ability to use the weapon inside the redline? Removal of headshot bonus whilst in the redline? (If that's even possible) Range reduction is out. a better way is to just redraw the redline so those people can't go so far behind the spawn point or MCC. The only real issue I've ever had with Redline snipers have been on Ashland, way up in the hills behind the MCC. The second place is Line Harvest on the Attacker's side. The mountain in the back. You know the best part about those 2 spots? They didn't exist in the Chromo version of the maps. When they flattened everything they created those new locations. The spot on Line Harvest used to be this huuuuge mountain that was higher up than the peak from Manus Peak. Ashland also had the hill in the back wrap around to where people usually go to climb it making it another place that was inaccessible. The red-line spot snipers go in manus peak? You need a vehicle to do it but my Saga or Gorgon can get me in there, get a kill or two, jump back in and get out. Usually I die because I get greedy or I landed wrong or I hit a bump and my LAV rolled. But again. If a sniper could get killed in a single shot, they wouldn't all collect up there, they'd be forced to roam around so that a single counter-sniper doesn't just get a bunch of free kills. They still did this when the Sniper could kill in a single shot, but those were the games I got 60+ kills in
Some of these redlines were redrawn to prevent redlining from other side being so goddamn terrible. I remember rail tanks shooting into line harvest's attack zone with impunity.
That issue has for the most part completely disappeared I haven't seen a over forceful camp on any side in months.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16270
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Posted - 2014.09.01 00:24:00 -
[21256] - Quote
Right-wing Extremist wrote:And seriously, talking about "game balance" to nerf an exploit of a bad mechanic, without talking about the mechanic itself, is a horrible appoach. And in case anyone is confused, the bad mechanic is the red zone itself.
Would fix but can't.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1698
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Posted - 2014.09.01 00:28:00 -
[21257] - Quote
What about just making the sniper variants better tuned for their purpose? This shouldn't be rocket surgery.
For the TAC, more accurate during follow up shots, less recoil etc so you have to land multiple shots in quickly
The charge would be something that OHKs suits under 600hp with a headshot?
Basically thinking of snipers in other games. You have the quick firing snipers and the single shot snipers.
My Youtube
Biomassed Podcast
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6904
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Posted - 2014.09.01 00:31:00 -
[21258] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:What about just making the sniper variants better tuned for their purpose? This shouldn't be rocket surgery.
For the TAC, more accurate during follow up shots, less recoil etc so you have to land multiple shots in quickly
The charge would be something that OHKs suits under 600hp with a headshot?
Basically thinking of snipers in other games. You have the quick firing snipers and the single shot snipers.
They need to have a tac variant that deals around 100 damage and has a 10 round clip.
Give it a good headshot multiplier and make the sights settle quickly, allowing it to function as a DMR.
Would be perfect to sit back at around 100-150m and make everyone think twice about leaving cover.
I got kicked out of the State War Academy for jury-rigging a contact nade launcher to my Rail Rifle
WINMATAR!
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
960
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Posted - 2014.09.01 00:35:00 -
[21259] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Right-wing Extremist wrote:And seriously, talking about "game balance" to nerf an exploit of a bad mechanic, without talking about the mechanic itself, is a horrible appoach. And in case anyone is confused, the bad mechanic is the red zone itself. Would fix but can't.
Smart deploy was dramatically improved in Ambush - it almost never drops you into the entire mass of enemy anymore.
Remove static ground spawn, keep MCC spawn, replace static ground spawn with dynamic ground spawn from Ambush, remove red zone, problem very well fixed.
Jaceon Pale-eye.
And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
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voidfaction
Nos Nothi
491
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 01:17:00 -
[21260] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:IgniteableAura wrote:What about just making the sniper variants better tuned for their purpose? This shouldn't be rocket surgery.
For the TAC, more accurate during follow up shots, less recoil etc so you have to land multiple shots in quickly
The charge would be something that OHKs suits under 600hp with a headshot?
Basically thinking of snipers in other games. You have the quick firing snipers and the single shot snipers. They need to have a tac variant that deals around 100 damage and has a 10 round clip. Give it a good headshot multiplier and make the sights settle quickly, allowing it to function as a DMR. Would be perfect to sit back at around 100-150m and make everyone think twice about leaving cover.
YES
That is what i'm looking for.
Something to fill the big gap between laser and sniper.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6907
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 01:20:00 -
[21261] - Quote
I just found some great ASCII art
I apologize in advance
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___________GūźGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūźGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūę__GūźGūźGūźGūźGūźGūźGūźGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūźGūźGūźGūźGūźGūźGūźGūęGūęGūźGūęGūęGūęGūę
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___________GūÉGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūźGūĘGūźGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūźGūźGūźGūäGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūę______GūäGūäGūä
___________GūźGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūźGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūźGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūōGūōGūōGūōGūōGūźGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūęGūäGūäGūä_GūäGūĒGūĒ____GūĒGūä
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_GūźGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūĘGūźGūźGūźG...
I got kicked out of the State War Academy for jury-rigging a contact nade launcher to my Rail Rifle
WINMATAR!
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1699
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Posted - 2014.09.01 02:20:00 -
[21262] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:IgniteableAura wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Charles EWAR updated to reflect bugged CalScout range vs intended CalScout range. What happened to the old version? I liked that one  Pages hidden in favor of summary grid. I'll unhide 'em for you :-)
Mehr....still not right. You condensed everything because you are too efficient. 
I did the mental math, I was seeing if the Amarr provided any utility over the GAL when the Amarr is only level 3. The Gal at level 5 is better.
Damnit ghost.
My Youtube
Biomassed Podcast
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Bayeth Mal
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
1350
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Posted - 2014.09.01 03:02:00 -
[21263] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:IWS, you are terrible at this game. If you demostrated, repeatedly that you are terrible. You're an idiot. All of your ideas are terrible.
The only reason people are freindly to you here is because you've shown the only competant thing you can do is relay the feelings of a community.
This is, in fact, the exact same thing happening again. However the difference this time is that instead of a role it is a single weapon.
The people that use the item are saying the same thing: The range cannot be reduced without hindering a significant number of sniping locations, that the Forge Gun is better than the Sniper Rifle 100% of the time within 300m, and that the damage has to be capable of killing someone with a headshot.
The people that don't use it are saying whatever they will reduce the number of users. They're even contradictory.
And you're over here in this magical land of whatever realm your mind exists in, one that has nothing to do with reality.
When will you learn: Your ideas are terrible.
Appia, eat a snickers.
We'll bang, OK?
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
6379
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Posted - 2014.09.01 03:02:00 -
[21264] - Quote
On snipers,
My main assumption was that Thale's zoom was the major problem, i.e. only counterable by another Thale.
Riddle me this, Appia specifically and Symbiotik if you are here.
1)How far can you really shoot with the Thale's, what are regular and necessary ranges, 400, 500 or 600, to be an effective, team helping sniper?
2) Pretend we reduce the Thale's zoom down to whatever proto is right now. Is the zoom the limiting factor on range or would you need to within 400 metres anyway with proto zoom?
3) If we buff headshot damage so that a proto sniper can down a sentinel in 2, or even 1 and and a body shot, you really only need to have 300 to 450 range, right? Since you don't have the Thale zoom anymore?
4) Why only cal sent right now, I didn't do the math, but galogis with 3 dmg mods would seem ok? Is there ever a case for a long range scout sniper?
5) I would prefer that the tactical sniper could be a scout "shoot and relocate" weapon, that can be effective outside of Rail Rifle and Laser range. Is there a way? Reduced sway maybe, but not quickscoping. If you are being chased, a body shot and followup with smg should be scary to the chaser.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
VP Gaming Alliance
532
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Posted - 2014.09.01 03:43:00 -
[21265] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:On snipers,
My main assumption was that Thale's zoom was the major problem, i.e. only counterable by another Thale.
Riddle me this, Appia specifically and Symbiotik if you are here.
1)How far can you really shoot with the Thale's, what are regular and necessary ranges, 400, 500 or 600, to be an effective, team helping sniper?
2) Pretend we reduce the Thale's zoom down to whatever proto is right now. Is the zoom the limiting factor on range or would you need to within 400 metres anyway with proto zoom?
3) If we buff headshot damage so that a proto sniper can down a sentinel in 2, or even 1 and and a body shot, you really only need to have 300 to 450 range, right? Since you don't have the Thale zoom anymore?
4) Why only cal sent right now, I didn't do the math, but galogis with 3 dmg mods would seem ok? Is there ever a case for a long range scout sniper?
5) I would prefer that the tactical sniper could be a scout "shoot and relocate" weapon, that can be effective outside of Rail Rifle and Laser range. Is there a way? Reduced sway maybe, but not quickscoping. If you are being chased, a body shot and followup with smg should be scary to the chaser.
In regards to number 4 and 5,
long range scout sniper? How? I thought the reason people use sniper rifles on thicker hp suits was so they don't get one shotted. But if scouts had passive scans while using the scope... Would that be possible? Or the ability to fire a single sniper rifle shot while cloaked? This way they can help their team with long range scans but also take forward positions and snipe while cloaked.
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voidfaction
Nos Nothi
494
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Posted - 2014.09.01 03:43:00 -
[21266] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:On snipers,
My main assumption was that Thale's zoom was the major problem, i.e. only counterable by another Thale.
Riddle me this, Appia specifically and Symbiotik if you are here.
1)How far can you really shoot with the Thale's, what are regular and necessary ranges, 400, 500 or 600, to be an effective, team helping sniper?
2) Pretend we reduce the Thale's zoom down to whatever proto is right now. Is the zoom the limiting factor on range or would you need to within 400 metres anyway with proto zoom?
3) If we buff headshot damage so that a proto sniper can down a sentinel in 2, or even 1 and and a body shot, you really only need to have 300 to 450 range, right? Since you don't have the Thale zoom anymore?
4) Why only cal sent right now, I didn't do the math, but galogis with 3 dmg mods would seem ok? Is there ever a case for a long range scout sniper?
5) I would prefer that the tactical sniper could be a scout "shoot and relocate" weapon, that can be effective outside of Rail Rifle and Laser range. Is there a way? Reduced sway maybe, but not quickscoping. If you are being chased, a body shot and followup with smg should be scary to the chaser.
I really like #5. The weapon sway would be hard to sell as stated many of us do not want quickscoping. Me I would want the same sway on initial aim but maybe less sway when moving while aiming so able to move in and out of cover while keeping a better balance on the gun.
As far as long range sniper scout I gave up on that as that role was taken over by heavies that can camp a spot much longer as they are able to tank 2-3 hits allowing them to move to cover and regen where as a scout is pretty much a OHK even when it's a body shot. Once you get a kill most vets will know where you are in no time judging by distance and suit. if heavy then more than likely redline or tower. Same goes for weapon used. If thales look in the redline as most are to scared to come out where they might lose it. If the sniper is in a scout suit (very rare these days) good luck as they could be anywhere and much less likely to camp same spot for more than 1-2 kills.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
4687
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Posted - 2014.09.01 03:58:00 -
[21267] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote: Is there ever a case for a long range scout sniper?
:: Paging Sleepy Zan ::
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Bayeth Mal
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
1353
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Posted - 2014.09.01 04:19:00 -
[21268] - Quote
[quote=Ghost Kaisar] I just found some great ASCII art
I apologize in advance[quote]
I'm on my phone and it loaded this page with me viewing the bottom post.
Holding phone sideways, I scroll up to see the bottom of what appears to be an ASCII dong.
Zoomed out to discover it's a happy smurf or something.
I'm not sure if I'm disappointed.
We'll bang, OK?
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
4687
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Posted - 2014.09.01 04:27:00 -
[21269] - Quote
Bayeth Mal wrote:
... not sure if I'm disappoint.
Hints:
Not dong. Not smurf.
Swing your arms from side to side.
Come on, it's time to go! Do the _____!
Take one step, and then again.
Let's do the ____, all together now!
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16273
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Posted - 2014.09.01 04:42:00 -
[21270] - Quote
[quote=Bayeth Mal][quote=Ghost Kaisar] I just found some great ASCII art
I apologize in advanceQuote:
I'm on my phone and it loaded this page with me viewing the bottom post.
Holding phone sideways, I scroll up to see the bottom of what appears to be an ASCII dong.
Zoomed out to discover it's a happy smurf or something.
I'm not sure if I'm disappointed.
Mario
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
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