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Matticus Monk wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Appia Vibbia wrote:

That's a pretty ******* huge "if." They don't hit harder now and I hardly see anyone ever improving them.

100% agree with you here ...

Scouts:
How 'bout we trade an HP Ceiling which guarantees our squishiness for harder-hitting shotguns and knives we can count on? Thinking glass cannon. Blah blah blah, tables, charts and graphs.

Community:
You mean we'll get to insta-gib Scouts like old times!? No more 700HP Slayer Scouts? Absolutely!

CCP:
Scouts have suggested a hitpoint ceiling; we like the idea and support seems unanimous. After much community discussion, we've also decided to nerf Shotguns and Nova Knives.

Straight

I like it, Sir Go-Bang.

In fact, I really thought it was a dicey move to give scouts an extra slot when they did.... the old suits were more balanced I felt as scouts had more innate advantages offset by less fitting potential. I guess it was needed to allow suits to maintain flexibility given the different bonuses all the racial frames have, but it does increase the HP ceiling for those that want to seriously HP tank their scouts, which has caused so many issues due to the fact that CCP didn't simultaneosly buff the medium frames.

Personally I'd like to go back to the days when scouts hit hard and were easy to kill.

But, finding hard hitting scout weaponry changes we can use while keeping the non-standard scout weaponry viable (sidearm scouts, rifle scouts, etc....) and simultanously not making FOTM medium fits (recall shotgun speed logi's?) could be tough.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
mollerz 4322	Posted - 2014.07.24 18:31:00 - [18541] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Hey, keep getting the scouts nerfed, I'll be happy when I don't need to deal with those shotguns in PC. cool story bro. You having a hard time hiding your ass hurt, huh? Well, you came to the right place. Do you want awesome change? Do you want dust to rock like never before? Then vote Appia for CPM1
mollerz 4322	Posted - 2014.07.24 18:32:00 - [18542] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: There isn't a problem with slayer scouts, there is a problem when they outdo the dedicated slayer suit in almost every way in addition to having complete superiority in other areas. wow. That sounds surprisingly familiar. Do you want awesome change? Do you want dust to rock like never before? Then vote Appia for CPM1
mollerz 4322	Posted - 2014.07.24 18:34:00 - [18543] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Appia If our weapons hit harder, we'd get in and out faster and there'd be less need for HP buffer. High risk, high reward. This is my bread an butter. But- also appia has a point. There should be room for both. Anyone suggest pushing light suits towards being the slayer suit. You can be a slayer, but you get no scout bonuses. Plus it would give people a reason to go lv 5 light frame... and basically zero changes need to be mad eon CCPs part.. just don't apply any nerfs to them. Do you want awesome change? Do you want dust to rock like never before? Then vote Appia for CPM1
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11231	Posted - 2014.07.24 18:38:00 - [18544] - Quote mollerz wrote: Cat Merc wrote: There isn't a problem with slayer scouts, there is a problem when they outdo the dedicated slayer suit in almost every way in addition to having complete superiority in other areas. wow. That sounds surprisingly familiar. It is, scouts used to be outdone by other suits. But you can't say that they aren't completely outdoing Assaults right now, can you? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Killar-12 The Exemplars Top Men. 3022	Posted - 2014.07.24 18:39:00 - [18545] - Quote mollerz wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Hey, keep getting the scouts nerfed, I'll be happy when I don't need to deal with those shotguns in PC. cool story bro. You having a hard time hiding your ass hurt, huh? Well, you came to the right place. I run everything... I'd say though, don't get the scouts nerfed or even adjusted until the Assualts are buffed... I am an Idiot, and so are you!
mollerz 4322	Posted - 2014.07.24 18:40:00 - [18546] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: mollerz wrote: Cat Merc wrote: There isn't a problem with slayer scouts, there is a problem when they outdo the dedicated slayer suit in almost every way in addition to having complete superiority in other areas. wow. That sounds surprisingly familiar. It is, scouts used to be outdone by other suits. But you can't say that they aren't completely outdoing Assaults right now, can you? oh sorry I was being facetious. I've been around the dust go round since day one. i remember all the fotms. I miss my viziam lazer scout the most Do you want awesome change? Do you want dust to rock like never before? Then vote Appia for CPM1
mollerz 4322	Posted - 2014.07.24 18:43:00 - [18547] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: mollerz wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Hey, keep getting the scouts nerfed, I'll be happy when I don't need to deal with those shotguns in PC. cool story bro. You having a hard time hiding your ass hurt, huh? Well, you came to the right place. I run everything... I'd say though, don't get the scouts nerfed or even adjusted until the Assualts are buffed... I'm with you on that.. I am taking a back seat to the scouts here. I am one of the only pro buffs in the shop. My mantra is, "Don't nerf. buff everything else." But I recognize that stance to be extreme, and default to the more tempered here. At least this gives people something to do. All the way to hotfix zulu! amirite guys? cause that's all dust has now Do you want awesome change? Do you want dust to rock like never before? Then vote Appia for CPM1
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3690	Posted - 2014.07.24 19:12:00 - [18548] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Appia If our weapons hit harder, we'd get in and out faster and there'd be less need for HP buffer. High risk, high reward. That's a pretty ***** huge "if." They don't hit harder now and I hardly see anyone ever improving them. A condition-nerf is absolutely the dumbest thing you could propose. People actually come here and look now. I'm sick and tired of people seeing a conditional-nerf, see that people have endorsed it and then taken it out of context. All that does is make both aspects ***** blow. I want to have an assassination suit. Some some worthless little 1-1 clone trade. All a plate nerf to scouts will do is reduce the effectiveness of Shotgun Scouts in PC. Personal Theme Song
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 627	Posted - 2014.07.24 19:13:00 - [18549] - Quote mollerz wrote: Killar-12 wrote: mollerz wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Hey, keep getting the scouts nerfed, I'll be happy when I don't need to deal with those shotguns in PC. cool story bro. You having a hard time hiding your ass hurt, huh? Well, you came to the right place. I run everything... I'd say though, don't get the scouts nerfed or even adjusted until the Assualts are buffed... I'm with you on that.. I am taking a back seat to the scouts here. I am one of the only pro buffs in the shop. My mantra is, "Don't nerf. buff everything else." But I recognize that stance to be extreme, and default to the more tempered here. At least this gives people something to do. All the way to hotfix zulu! amirite guys? cause that's all dust has now Hotfix zulu should include throwing spears You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3690	Posted - 2014.07.24 19:17:00 - [18550] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Actually Gallente are fast, high damage, medium HP but regenerative. sigh Kid, you have so very little experience. Designer intentions do not work out to player usage. Personal Theme Song

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2907	Posted - 2014.07.24 19:20:00 - [18551] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: TPLAK, Jewel Staite > Summer Glau This. Never gotten the attraction to Summer. This is how a minja feels
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11238	Posted - 2014.07.24 19:27:00 - [18552] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Actually Gallente are fast, high damage, medium HP but regenerative. sigh Kid, you have so very little experience. Designer intentions do not work out to player usage. Umm, I am very well aware of their actual use. I'm just stating what they're supposed to be. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3690	Posted - 2014.07.24 19:41:00 - [18553] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: TPLAK, Jewel Staite > Summer Glau This. Never gotten the attraction to Summer. Actually I really liked Glau in the movie "Knights of Badassdom" And "The Cape" and "The Arrow" were TV shows I liked her character on But Staite was on Stargate Atlantis <3 Also Staite is prettier Personal Theme Song
Matticus Monk OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2187	Posted - 2014.07.24 20:15:00 - [18554] - Quote God, two acresses I absolutely hate watching.... it's some combination of their acting, emotion and looks. Summer Glau and Zhang Ziyi. Facepalm.... every time. Double posting like a Kaiser.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 560	Posted - 2014.07.24 20:54:00 - [18555] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: God, two actresses I absolutely hate watching.... it's some combination of their acting, emotion and looks. Summer Glau and Zhang Ziyi. Facepalm.... every time. Love me some Zhang..... not for her acting, just to watch her, she is gorgeous. Summer Glau - she does have that creepy non human thing down?! no? "Shine bright like a diamond"
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3261	Posted - 2014.07.24 21:05:00 - [18556] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Are plated scouts really that much of an issue? I personally find Caldari scouts to be infinitely more annoying than any other scout. The current speed penalty is enough to make any plated scout a really easy target. Yes; brick is our biggest issue. Have a look at the next Nyain San "scout" you bump into. 500+ armor on a scout suit should come with steep penalty. If you want to be a medframe, run a f*cking medframe. Shields are far less an issue than armor, but we're likely still going to have problem with CalScouts post Charlie. These will shift from precision hunters to hit-and-run brawlers. There isn't anything inherently imbalanced about this; they'll be insta-gibbed by SG, ScR, HMG and flux+anything. The problem with the CalScout isn't its shields, the problem CalScouts is that HD isn't keeping up with strafe speed and acceleration (which we should push to fix in Delta). As someone that's been running a plated scout since. . . forever ago, I'm going to disagree with you. 1. I made my case why I need 500EHP for CQC combat. 2. It's a hallmark of Gallente to be fast, high damage, high HP 3. [...] progressed from "not making scouts a target of nerfs" to hampering alternative playstyles here. 4. Taking away the static bonuses and making them module dependent is all you need. 5. [...] punitive actions because people aren't playing scouts the way you want them to. OK ... back to my computer. Some key points: 1) 500 eHP =/= 500+ Armor (very important distinction here) 2) High Speed + High Damage + High HP = Why run anything else? 3) Nyain San doesn't spam "alternative playstyles" ... they spam whatever's OP 4) You're probably right, and this is absolutely where we should start. 5) Bricked Scouts haven't always been a problem; I defended them prior to 1.8 in outright disagreement with Lightning xVx. He predicted that they'd become a serious problem; he was right, and I was wrong. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3265	Posted - 2014.07.24 21:25:00 - [18557] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Appia If our weapons hit harder, we'd get in and out faster and there'd be less need for HP buffer. High risk, high reward. That's a pretty ***** huge "if." They don't hit harder now and I hardly see anyone ever improving them. A condition-nerf is absolutely the dumbest thing you could propose. People actually come here and look now. I'm sick and tired of people seeing a conditional-nerf, see that people have endorsed it and then taken it out of context. All that does is make both aspects ***** blow. I want to have an assassination suit. Some some worthless little 1-1 clone trade. All a plate nerf to scouts will do is reduce the effectiveness of Shotgun Scouts in PC. 100% agree with you here. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
mollerz 4339	Posted - 2014.07.24 21:52:00 - [18558] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: 5) Bricked Scouts haven't always been a problem; I defended them prior to 1.8 in outright disagreement with Lightning xVx. He predicted that they'd become a serious problem; he was right, and I was wrong. It really isn't a problem though. It's just the focus of the cry baby brigade. look at all the people complaining. Almost all of them are newberries.. so either alts or peons of the usual crew of people who just cry baby nerf just because they enjoy it. I'm positive there are a couple obese neckbeards out there getting their jollies off on this **. CCP, IMO, should have fixed med suits before they did anything else. Although, the minja fixes are pretty legit in the face of other scouts. Do you want awesome change? Do you want dust to rock like never before? Then vote Appia for CPM1**
Matticus Monk OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2192	Posted - 2014.07.24 21:55:00 - [18559] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: That's a pretty ******* huge "if." They don't hit harder now and I hardly see anyone ever improving them. 100% agree with you here ... Scouts: How 'bout we trade an HP Ceiling which guarantees our squishiness for harder-hitting shotguns and knives we can count on? Thinking glass cannon. Blah blah blah, tables, charts and graphs. Community: You mean we'll get to insta-gib Scouts like old times!? No more 700HP Slayer Scouts? Absolutely! CCP: Scouts have suggested a hitpoint ceiling; we like the idea and support seems unanimous. After much community discussion, we've also decided to nerf Shotguns and Nova Knives. I like it, Sir Go-Bang. In fact, I really thought it was a dicey move to give scouts an extra slot when they did.... the old suits were more balanced I felt as scouts had more innate advantages offset by less fitting potential. I guess it was needed to allow suits to maintain flexibility given the different bonuses all the racial frames have, but it does increase the HP ceiling for those that want to seriously HP tank their scouts, which has caused so many issues due to the fact that CCP didn't simultaneosly buff the medium frames. Personally I'd like to go back to the days when scouts hit hard and were easy to kill. But, finding hard hitting scout weaponry changes we can use while keeping the non-standard scout weaponry viable (sidearm scouts, rifle scouts, etc....) and simultanously not making FOTM medium fits (recall shotgun speed logi's?) could be tough. Double posting like a Kaiser.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4511	Posted - 2014.07.24 22:03:00 - [18560] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: TPLAK, Jewel Staite > Summer Glau This. Never gotten the attraction to Summer. http://xkcd.com/577/ http://xkcd.com/578/ http://xkcd.com/579/ http://xkcd.com/580/ http://xkcd.com/581/ http://xkcd.com/582/ <- Has nothing to do with summer glau I just absolutely love it Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!

Matticus Monk OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2192	Posted - 2014.07.24 22:08:00 - [18561] - Quote mollerz wrote: It really isn't a problem though. It's just the focus of the cry baby brigade. look at all the people complaining. Almost all of them are newberries.. so either alts or peons of the usual crew of people who just cry baby nerf just because they enjoy it. I'm positive there are a couple obese neckbeards out there getting their jollies off on this ****. . Brick tank proto shotgun scout two nights ago. Best part of my game was hunting him down in my dragonfly and making him pay... twice. I laughed when he showed up on my passive scans when cloaked. Totally the norm these days..... This is easy pickings for OG scouts..... not sure why anyone would complain other than the fact that medium frame pukes are over here soiling our precision instruments with their dull, cloddy, fumbling, pre-pubescent mess of what passes for gun-game..... Double posting like a Kaiser.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3697	Posted - 2014.07.24 22:14:00 - [18562] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: That's a pretty ******* huge "if." They don't hit harder now and I hardly see anyone ever improving them. 100% agree with you here ... Scouts: How 'bout we trade an HP Ceiling which guarantees our squishiness for harder-hitting shotguns and knives we can count on? Thinking glass cannon. Blah blah blah, tables, charts and graphs. Community: You mean we'll get to insta-gib Scouts like old times!? No more 700HP Slayer Scouts? Absolutely! CCP: Scouts have suggested a hitpoint ceiling; we like the idea and support seems unanimous. After much community discussion, we've also decided to nerf Shotguns and Nova Knives. I like it, Sir Go-Bang. In fact, I really thought it was a dicey move to give scouts an extra slot when they did.... the old suits were more balanced I felt as scouts had more innate advantages offset by less fitting potential. I guess it was needed to allow suits to maintain flexibility given the different bonuses all the racial frames have, but it does increase the HP ceiling for those that want to seriously HP tank their scouts, which has caused so many issues due to the fact that CCP didn't simultaneosly buff the medium frames. Personally I'd like to go back to the days when scouts hit hard and were easy to kill. But, finding hard hitting scout weaponry changes we can use while keeping the non-standard scout weaponry viable (sidearm scouts, rifle scouts, etc....) and simultanously not making FOTM medium fits (recall shotgun speed logi's?) could be tough. Gimme 80% backpedal speed, +50 damage to each nova knife, and an Allotek Breach Shotgun that does 80 damage per pellet and I will never deal with HP mods again (on my scouts). Personal Theme Song
mollerz 4343	Posted - 2014.07.24 22:19:00 - [18563] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Gimme 80% backpedal speed, +50 damage to each nova knife, and an Allotek Breach Shotgun that does 80 damage per pellet and I will never deal with HP mods again (on my scouts). 80%?! Try more like 60% Do you want awesome change? Do you want dust to rock like never before? Then vote Appia for CPM1
mollerz 4343	Posted - 2014.07.24 22:21:00 - [18564] - Quote EVEPLAK So- what's the rage for going full wormhole? I used to rock with my tengu with heavy missiles back in the day. Do you want awesome change? Do you want dust to rock like never before? Then vote Appia for CPM1
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1966	Posted - 2014.07.24 22:29:00 - [18565] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Preliminary Delta Wish List ... 1) Implement efficacy bonuses earlier discussed (still need something for Cal) 2) Double movement penalty of plates on Scouts (excludes ferro/reactive) 3) Improvements to vanilla shotgun (increase optimal range, increase RoF) 4) Improvements to breach shotgun (increase optimal range, increase damage, greatly increase RoF) 5) Improvements to sidearms (all on par with SMG) 6) Improvements to movement mechanics (reduce strafe acceleration, reduce backpedal speed) 7) More hamsters, fewer lag spikes Thoughts? 1. Sounds good 2. If a plate penalty is going to be put in place, it should be universal. Assaults with Heavy EHP should be penalised. 3. Is the cloaking fixed enough for a shotgun improvement to not cause a massive outcry? Agree with it, just be prepared for a yelling match with idiots... 4. Yes 5. Yes 6. This is the only one I disagree with. I don't support changes to either strafe acceleration or backpedal. 7. Yes Knowledge is power
mollerz 4345	Posted - 2014.07.24 22:31:00 - [18566] - Quote Brokerib wrote: 6. This is the only one I disagree with. I don't support changes to either strafe acceleration or backpedal. wut. Do you want awesome change? Do you want dust to rock like never before? Then vote Appia for CPM1
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3998	Posted - 2014.07.24 22:41:00 - [18567] - Quote Brokerib wrote: just be prepared for a yelling match with idiots... This is ~~SPARTA~~ FORUMS KRRROOOOOOM
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2453	Posted - 2014.07.24 22:51:00 - [18568] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Preliminary Delta Wish List ... 1) Implement efficacy bonuses earlier discussed (still need something for Cal) 2) Double movement penalty of plates on Scouts (excludes ferro/reactive) 3) Improvements to vanilla shotgun (increase optimal range, increase RoF) 4) Improvements to breach shotgun (increase optimal range, increase damage, greatly increase RoF) 5) Improvements to sidearms (all on par with SMG) 6) Improvements to movement mechanics (reduce strafe acceleration, reduce backpedal speed) 7) More hamsters, fewer lag spikes Thoughts? 1: I like it. 2: Not as sure about this one, but I see the merit behind it. Random thought: What if all tiers of base plates had the same speed penalty? 3: No comment. 4: No comment. 5: I'd be wary with this, certainly the other side arms need improvements, but is the smg perhaps too effective? 6: Yes. By god's right buttock yes. 7: Also yes. Also, CPM results are apparently out tomorrow, ya'll excited? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 563	Posted - 2014.07.24 22:52:00 - [18569] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Preliminary Delta Wish List ... 1) Implement efficacy bonuses earlier discussed (still need something for Cal) 2) Double movement penalty of plates on Scouts (excludes ferro/reactive) 3) Improvements to vanilla shotgun (increase optimal range, increase RoF) 4) Improvements to breach shotgun (increase optimal range, increase damage, greatly increase RoF) 5) Improvements to sidearms (all on par with SMG) 6) Improvements to movement mechanics (reduce strafe acceleration, reduce backpedal speed) 7) More hamsters, fewer lag spikes Thoughts? 1. Sounds good 2. If a plate penalty is going to be put in place, it should be universal. Assaults with Heavy EHP should be penalised. 3. Is the cloaking fixed enough for a shotgun improvement to not cause a massive outcry? Agree with it, just be prepared for a yelling match with idiots... 4. Yes 5. Yes 6. This is the only one I disagree with. I don't support changes to either strafe acceleration or backpedal. 7. Yes I think light frames should get the higher % penalty, then assaults a penalty so Heavies are most efficient at carrying armor. - These would be added to the established plate penalties correct? I dont see strafe acc being an issue if it it out right strafing. The issue is jig in a spot which really shouldnt be in the game or if it is then weapon accuracy should be really poor. Backpedal must be decreased or shotgun range would have to be increased and nova knifes would need a greater range in which contact occurs so a slight shimmy and backpedal wouldnt get the opponent out of the danger zone. "Shine bright like a diamond"
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4523	Posted - 2014.07.24 22:52:00 - [18570] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2277584#post2277584 This guy, folks, let's convene downstairs and adorn tin foil hats for-you-know-why PS: I've noticed that CCP can moderate corp chat....I wonder....if the downstairs..... Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!



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