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Bojo The Mighty wrote:

Oswald Rehnquist wrote:

Separating the scout from the cloak,

As funny as it sounds, I am actually OK with not shooting from cloak, I was expecting that actually and was shocked to hear otherwise, you could even read a few pages before hand were several of us agreed with cloaks just for set up or defense, but the entire list of other nerfs people are throwing out can build a book, shotgun noise for cloaking/decloaking, to 20% damage reduction at all times, auto reveal installations, long de/activation delay, gal logis? Its not even a defensive tool after that, and people actually support this.

In short, I don't believe we are going to make any leeway with the CPMs and the rest of the player base with creating a cloak that actually fills a useful function for the scout. Sniper protection in open fields is about what the cloak will provide if we are to take the general consensus, we don't really have a problem with movement otherwise, such a nerf is easily survivable if we could just pretend the cloak doesn't exist and throw it into a dark corner, which means we need better roles/racials.

I propose the following new scout role bonus

Scout bonus: 5% Efficacy and 10% CPU/PG reduction to all Biotic/Electronic modules

Pretty open, literally allows for all current builds to function, and works when future stuff comes in.

Racials are a whole other beast altogether, but what are your guys thoughts in this role bonus?

But hold the phone

Electronic Modules are dirt cheap in terms of fitting. 25 CPU for a complex range amp.....it favors the biotic user very well considering they hog enormous PG quantities. But again, electronic modules are dirt cheap and the slot they take up is more valuable than the CPU they take up.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2658	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:32:00 - [6631] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: How come this hasn't been reopen by someone in another thread? It seems well liked and would hate for it to stop here. It's about sending a message. You don't rebuild a monument when it is destroyed. You put up a sign and let the tourists enjoy what once was. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Oswald Rehnquist 1044	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:37:00 - [6632] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Separating the scout from the cloak, As funny as it sounds, I am actually OK with not shooting from cloak, I was expecting that actually and was shocked to hear otherwise, you could even read a few pages before hand were several of us agreed with cloaks just for set up or defense, but the entire list of other nerfs people are throwing out can build a book, shotgun noise for cloaking/decloaking, to 20% damage reduction at all times, auto reveal installations, long de/activation delay, gal logis? Its not even a defensive tool after that, and people actually support this. In short, I don't believe we are going to make any leeway with the CPMs and the rest of the player base with creating a cloak that actually fills a useful function for the scout. Sniper protection in open fields is about what the cloak will provide if we are to take the general consensus, we don't really have a problem with movement otherwise, such a nerf is easily survivable if we could just pretend the cloak doesn't exist and throw it into a dark corner, which means we need better roles/racials. I propose the following new scout role bonus Scout bonus: 5% Efficacy and 10% CPU/PG reduction to all Biotic/Electronic modules Pretty open, literally allows for all current builds to function, and works when future stuff comes in. Racials are a whole other beast altogether, but what are your guys thoughts in this role bonus? But hold the phone Electronic Modules are dirt cheap in terms of fitting. 25 CPU for a complex range amp.....it favors the biotic user very well considering they hog enormous PG quantities. But again, electronic modules are dirt cheap and the slot they take up is more valuable than the CPU they take up. I concur, though this can be countered by giving scouts a lot more slots than cpu/pg ratio (slight boost to cpu/pg, but like 4 more slots, especially considering how dependent all the mods are on each other), I'm also hoping when ewar comes out there will be special modules that boost their effectiveness or even later down the line actual active modules. Below 28 dB
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1130	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:42:00 - [6633] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Zion Shad wrote: How come this hasn't been reopen by someone in another thread? It seems well liked and would hate for it to stop here. It's about sending a message. You don't rebuild a monument when it is destroyed. You put up a sign and let the tourists enjoy what once was. Also, at least to me, it was never really about keeping track of Scout performance. It was about bringing us together into a cohesive community so that we could push the boundaries of being a scout through theory-crafting improvements; swapping strategies and fittings; and in general foster a sense of shared fate and promote brotherhood between scouts. Considering our water cooler is still the most popular damn watering hole in these forums, I'd say it was a success. !
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1683	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:14:00 - [6634] - Quote Wow. I opened this up to 106 notifications. You guys sure have been busy. Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
One Eyed King Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 175	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:20:00 - [6635] - Quote Am I getting this right? The last half of January will be Duvolle Focus Scanner fest? Everyone and their brother/sister will be out and about lighting up my screen with "You have been Scanned" Its a good thing I don't care about my KDR, I don't think I am skilled enough for this kind of onslaught. Nova knifing scout masochist. I would be a sadist, but CCP won't let me.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1139	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:23:00 - [6636] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Wow. I opened this up to 106 notifications. You guys sure have been busy. shrugs EZmode declared war on cloaks. Sidenote: How I would balance scanner precisions: Scouts base profile allows them to avoid adv and std scanners out of the box. Proto scanners cost a lot more, have better stats, and can catch non-dampened scouts Gal logi using proto scanners catch scouts without cmp dampeners Make the focused impossible to beat (It placates the mediums and is terrible anyways) Mediums can avoid adv scanners using damps Mediums can also avoid the proto scanners by fitting 3-4 cmp damps Mediums can't avoid the cal logi proto scanner Special twist - Bias the std scanner so it can only detect heavies but have high detection times. Why? Because CCP intends to make heavies tough SOBs and knowing where the heavy is can be a hell of a lot of help. This makes the std scanner have a use aside from being that thing that is immediately passed up since adv scanners are fairly cheap sp-wise. !
Ruthless Lee The Eliminators 171	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:26:00 - [6637] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Wow. I opened this up to 106 notifications. You guys sure have been busy. shrugs EZmode declared war on cloaks. Sidenote: How I would balance scanner precisions: Scouts base profile allows them to avoid adv and std scanners out of the box. Proto scanners cost more, have better stats, and can catch non-dampened scouts Gal logi using proto scanners catch scouts without cmp dampeners Make the focused impossible to beat (It placates the mediums and is terrible anyways) Special twist - Bias the std scanner so it can only detect heavies but have high detection times. Why? Because CCP intends to make heavies tough SOBs and knowing where the heavy is can be a hell of a lot of help. This makes the std scanner have a use aside from being that thing that is immediately passed up since adv scanners are fairly cheap sp-wise. I feel like I am spending an inordinate amount of my time 'liking' your ideas this evening, Krom...
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1142	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:29:00 - [6638] - Quote Ruthless Lee wrote: I feel like I am spending an inordinate amount of my time 'liking' your ideas this evening, Krom... Yes. Keeping liking my posts. Soon I will be able to defeat even Foxfour in forum warrior battles! MUAHAHAHAHAHAH! !
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 3811	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:31:00 - [6639] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: shrugs EZmode declared war on cloaks. Sidenote: How I would balance scanner precisions: Scouts base profile allows them to avoid adv and std scanners out of the box. Proto scanners cost a lot more, have better stats, and can catch non-dampened scouts Gal logi using proto scanners catch scouts without cmp dampeners Make the focused impossible to beat (It placates the mediums and is terrible anyways) Mediums can avoid adv scanners using damps (not sure how many it should be though) Mediums can also avoid the proto scanners by fitting 3-4 cmp damps Mediums can't avoid the cal logi proto scanner Special twist - Bias the std scanner so it can only detect heavies but have high detection times. Why? Because CCP intends to make heavies tough SOBs and knowing where the heavy is can be a hell of a lot of help. This makes the std scanner have a use aside from being that thing that is immediately passed up since adv scanners are fairly cheap sp-wise. This would be a great idea, if CCP would actually fix the scanner.....it's very irritating to get the, "NO MARGIN OF ERROR" message and then turn the corner to see someone with a Rail Rifle cut you down QW1hcnIgTG9naSBGVFc=
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 3811	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:32:00 - [6640] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Yes. Keeping liking my posts. Soon I will be able to defeat even Foxfour in forum warrior battles! MUAHAHAHAHAHAH! Are you another one of General John Ripper's alts?? QW1hcnIgTG9naSBGVFc=

Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1142	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:34:00 - [6641] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Krom Ganesh wrote: Yes. Keeping liking my posts. Soon I will be able to defeat even Foxfour in forum warrior battles! MUAHAHAHAHAHAH! Are you another one of General John Ripper's alts?? Afraid not. I do not have a burning love of tacos. !
mollerz Minja Scouts 1685	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:35:00 - [6642] - Quote Maken Tosch really is the ninja nerfer of scouts. He is currently advocating not being able to hold a weapon while cloaked. Really dude? You are getting jedi mind tricked by med suits. Just stop talking for us if you are going to kow tow on behalf of scouts. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 3811	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:43:00 - [6643] - Quote mollerz wrote: Maken Tosch really is the ninja nerfer of scouts. He is currently advocating not being able to hold a weapon while cloaked. Really dude? You are getting jedi mind tricked by med suits. Just stop talking for us if you are going to kow tow on behalf of scouts. in b4 Maken Tosch QW1hcnIgTG9naSBGVFc=
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1686	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:46:00 - [6644] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: As for the rest of the racial suits suggestions on their bonus based on the themes we already know about races? Amarr - Tanky Caldari - Shield Brawler Gallente - Armor Brawler Minmatar - Speed Deamon Close. My take on this: Amarr: Hunter. Focus on Stamina and staying power. With an already very high stamina, and decent speed and health, the amarr scout should be the typical hunter. Taking on groups of targets, it focuses on eliminating them one at a time. Scramblers synergize well with this, due to their high alpha nature and cooldown. You can use stealth to quickly down a target, and then continue to stalk a group. High Stamina means that in the long run, nobody can escape you. Higher than average eHP makes you difficult to kill 1v1. You are nowhere near as mobile as the other scouts, but you gain something the other scouts don't have, and that's the staying power to engage groups at mid range for extended periods of time. Other scouts will have to fall back when the heat turns up, but the Amarr hunter should be able to weather more heat, and proceed to whittle down the enemy. Caldari: Disruptor. Focus on eWar and long range disruption. With high shields, regen, and bonuses to rail weapons, the Cal scout should be excellent at disrupting enemy operations. Snipers will be able to set up shop, and use their shields to quickly recover from damage while re positioning themselves for another long range attack. Rail Rifle users can utilize their speed and mobility to harrass groups of targets from a distance, making sure that nobody can deal enough damage at range to kill them before they duck behind cover for regen. Hit and run from a distance. Less deadly, but more annoying. Gallente: Infiltrator. Focus on stealth and observation. Made to get behind enemy lines, and stay there for long periods of time, tracking down targets and causing their own mayhem by hacking objectives and harassing targets. They should be very good at surviving long periods of time behind enemy lines. Minmatar: Glass Cannon. Focus on speed and damage. You use either your passive stealth (or a cloak) to quickly traverse the battlefield. You quickly flank a target, and deal as much damage as humanly possible in as short an amount of time as possible. Knives are used to dispatch lone targets in one shot. ACR's or SMG's are use to quickly shred through 2-3 targets. Once the hit is complete, you can use your cloak and speed to quickly run and hide before attracting too much attention. They are hit and run from point blank. More risky, but deadly. I still want to keep the Scout class bonus to be dampening, but they also need to lower it to a 30dB base instead of 45. This is the only way to keep up with the Gal-Logi scans. If you hate doing dual bonuses, then just go and make the scouts profile 20 dB base. We need to avoid scanners. That is really the core of the class. We also will need the fitting reduction for cloaks. We can't run it otherwise. I think that the best solution is to keep the bonus to fitting reduction, and to make the base dB for scouts 20 so that they can passively avoid all scanners except for the focused. If we absolutely have to avoid it, when can use modules for it (except the modules would have to be changed in %'s. 25% reduction at proto will not be enough. Make them reduce dB by a set number, such as -10 or so. %'s don't benefit lower numbers as much as they do higher numbers.) Just my 0.02 ISk on the matter. Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Ruthless Lee The Eliminators 172	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:48:00 - [6645] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: This would be a great idea, if CCP would actually fix the scanner.....it's very irritating to get the, "NO MARGIN OF ERROR" message and then turn the corner to see someone with a Rail Rifle cut you down Here. I'll fix yer scanner... PUNT
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1144	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:58:00 - [6646] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: -Snip- We mostly agree. I disagree on the Min's role though. As odd as it seems considering their lower health, they should be attracting attention. Their focus should be on distracting the enemy and causing as much pandemonium as possible. As much fun as it is, you can't make a viable role with just assassination in a game with immortal clones.The assassination has to serve a purpose other than just reducing the enemy's clone count by one. Also, they shouldn't be taking on multiple enemies. That's the job of the suits designed for more direct combat. If this was part of the min's job description, there would be too much overlap with the assaults, sentinels, and commandos. Giving them a hacking bonus and speed bonus allows them to quickly dart around the map and frustrate the enemy to no end. Also, 20 or 30 db is too low. While the scout should be able to avoid nearly all scanners there must be some give and take. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1688	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:09:00 - [6647] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: -Snip- We mostly agree. I disagree on the Min's role though. As odd as it seems considering their lower health, they should be attracting attention. Their focus should be on distracting the enemy and causing as much pandemonium as possible. As much fun as it is, you can't make a viable role with just assassination in a game with immortal clones.The assassination has to serve a purpose other than just reducing the enemy's clone count by one. Also, they shouldn't be taking on multiple enemies. That's the job of the suits designed for more direct combat. If this was part of the min's job description, there would be too much overlap with the assaults, sentinels, and commandos. Giving them a hacking bonus and speed bonus allows them to quickly dart around the map and frustrate the enemy to no end. Also, 20 or 30 db is too low. While the scout should be able to avoid nearly all scanners there must be some give and take. You do realize that a Gal Logi ADV scanner scans at 29 dB. Proto goes all the way down to 21. If we don't get a class bonus to it, we need 20dB to avoid a proto scanner. If we keep it, we still need 30dB, as this lets a max investment scout avoid a proto scanner. 30.9.75 = 20.25 Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1145	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:10:00 - [6648] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: You do realize that a Gal Logi ADV scanner scans at 29 dB. Proto goes all the way down to 21. If we don't get a class bonus to it, we need 20dB to avoid a proto scanner. If we keep it, we still need 30dB, as this lets a max investment scout avoid a proto scanner. 30.9.75 = 20.25 Just like how our base scan profile needs work, so does the gal logi bonus (and perhaps all the scanners as well). A few of posts up is how I think active scanners should be balanced. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 608	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:19:00 - [6649] - Quote Ghost's description of Min Scout is just how I envision it and try to play it. When I read the description (and these do matter because not everyone is a forum warrior or lives EVE) it is what I thought of and gravitated towards. When the Combat Rifle came out I was complete. Its also how I would use the cloak when not using RE's. As a min scout I dont want the hacking bonus. I'll take it as an innate ability sure but I would prefer damage dealing bonuses. I am Hacking Lv3 and really I can live with that. People that want speed hacking can skill into it and use codebreakers. In your blind spot
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1193	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:35:00 - [6650] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: And now for something completely different... January events. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134803 waitWHUT???? OKay, some nice rewards for those who actually manage to stay alive long enough to kill. but.. CCP Etern wrote: Operation Shadow Hunt As killers with Nova Knives are striking down mercenaries from shadows, bounties have been issued on anyone wearing a Scout suit. Between January 15 and 29, itGÇÖs your chance to show off the dominance of the other dropsuits. Use any Assault Rifle, Combat Rifle, Rail Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, or HMG to take down enemies wearing a Scout suit and earn bonus ISK based on the level of the dropsuit killed. Militia GÇô 2000 ISK Standard GÇô 10000 ISK Advanced GÇô 25000 ISK Prototype GÇô 50000 ISK You can earn up to 10 million ISK as rewards during this event. MINJAS ASSEMBLE HELL YES KRRROOOOOOM

Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1151	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:37:00 - [6651] - Quote @Daxxis & Ghost The problem with the glass cannon role is that CCP is giving that to the Min assault (low health, bonus to damage and damage mods). Like I said, there would be too much overlap between the min scout and assaults. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to kill though. I am saying the intent of the min scout should be to cause chaos through a variety of actions including killing and hacking (vehicles, objectives, crus, uplinks, etc.). The scout class shouldn't be a direct fighter's class. It should operate using fear, paranoia, confusion, etc. However, think of it this way. Bonuses in speed and hacking will allow you to be more aggressive and even control the battlefield. Your speed bonuses would give you the ability to pop in, take out a red in a group, and then lead his friends on a merry chase as you circle around and stab them in the back (literally or metaphorically, your choice). Your hacking bonuses would let you draw enemies or isolate them. No reds in your playground? Hack their objective to send them charging towards it like a raging bull. Want to prevent that red from having backup as you examine his innards? Hack the cru so no one hears him scream. While it is not a true glass canon, the min scout should be the most aggressive class of them all. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
One Eyed King Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 175	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:42:00 - [6652] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Krom Ganesh wrote: shrugs EZmode declared war on cloaks. Sidenote: How I would balance scanner precisions: Scouts base profile allows them to avoid adv and std scanners out of the box. Proto scanners cost a lot more, have better stats, and can catch non-dampened scouts Gal logi using proto scanners catch scouts without cmp dampeners Make the focused impossible to beat (It placates the mediums and is terrible anyways) Mediums can avoid adv scanners using damps (not sure how many it should be though) Mediums can also avoid the proto scanners by fitting 3-4 cmp damps Mediums can't avoid the cal logi proto scanner Special twist - Bias the std scanner so it can only detect heavies but have high detection times. Why? Because CCP intends to make heavies tough SOBs and knowing where the heavy is can be a hell of a lot of help. This makes the std scanner have a use aside from being that thing that is immediately passed up since adv scanners are fairly cheap sp-wise. This would be a great idea, if CCP would actually fix the scanner.....it's very irritating to get the, "NO MARGIN OF ERROR" message and then turn the corner to see someone with a Rail Rifle cut you down As it should be minus the RR. If they are going to cut you down, they should have the decency to use NKs. Nova knifing scout masochist. I would be a sadist, but CCP won't let me.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 608	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:48:00 - [6653] - Quote But why the intent to give us this Hacking bonus??? If I wanted it I wouldve gone Logi and look - CCP dropped it and didnt give it to us or anyone. So really I dont want to be given something that wasnt intended at any point. I see your point about overlap though and this is why they have to give a respec once this is done. In your blind spot
mollerz Minja Scouts 1690	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:57:00 - [6654] - Quote I don't see why a minja wouldn't get a hacking bonus. One of the primary functions of a minja is to capture and hold outlyer objectives outside the heat of the main battle. Minjas mainly hack and assassinate really. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2652	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:51:00 - [6655] - Quote I am content I got many kills with a G-I and CRD 9 AScR Then I hacked and stole a Creodron Breach HAV Got numerous kills Destroyed it in the Redzone before end of match I headshotted a merc as he charge shot me with a ScR and we died simultaneously but I felt victorious for landing a headshot with the GLU-5 TAR while he relied on a charge shot to finish me. I lonewolfed my way to the top of the leaderboard, above HowDidThatTaste, which may mean little to some of you but I have come across him since Closed Beta, when his notoriousness was prime. I am content that I went 1 vs 3 with a scrambler pistol and killed all. I am content that I met a new worthy opponent (Scout opponent) I am content that I headshotted an LAV driver while we played Matador, with the ScP of course. Today was a good dust day. Signed on tonight, got lag, got ******, fuuuuuck I must request that you cease and desist from providing advice which results in the Imperfects going hungry.
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 479	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:03:00 - [6656] - Quote Stil not sure if event is good or bad.... Scout have to use nova knives....while med frames can use all other weapons. Seems again like we get crapped on....plus look at those isk bonuses per kill.....seriously....10 million isk. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
mollerz Minja Scouts 1696	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:13:00 - [6657] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Stil not sure if event is good or bad.... Scout have to use nova knives....while med frames can use all other weapons. Seems again like we get crapped on....plus look at those isk bonuses per kill.....seriously....10 million isk. If you use an AR (or other listed weapons) and kill a scout you get the bounty, no? You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
T'orq DUST University Ivy League 110	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:15:00 - [6658] - Quote Are there any dedicated nova knife users here, if so please answer this question. Are nova knives affected by side arm damage mods or myo mods? I wanted to try them and got my first couple kills with them tonight, and just wanted to increase it damage output. Thanjac- Proud Member of Commando 6 Commando Lives
One Eyed King Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 176	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:19:00 - [6659] - Quote T'orq wrote: Are there any dedicated nova knife users here, if so please answer this question. Are nova knives affected by side arm damage mods or myo mods? I wanted to try them and got my first couple kills with them tonight, and just wanted to increase it damage output. Side arm mods Nova knifing scout masochist. I would be a sadist, but CCP won't let me.
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1692	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:19:00 - [6660] - Quote T'orq wrote: Are there any dedicated nova knife users here, if so please answer this question. Are nova knives affected by side arm damage mods or myo mods? I wanted to try them and got my first couple kills with them tonight, and just wanted to increase it damage output. Sidearm damage mods Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.



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