Your vote of confidence is much appreciated, Zatara, but 'beastly' may be misleading .

My KDR of 2.20 is among the lowest in my corp, and is well below recruitment thresholds for other corps.
I have gone positive only a few times in PC.

At 11M SP (invested primarily in CQC weaponry, biotics and shields),
I lose Isk in 50% of ambush pubs and 80% of other game modes should I wear proto gear.

I still think RUNNING away of un-winnable situations is better than strafing in 1vs1 situations.

100% scout, usually minnie running AR / Nova Knives, approaching 2.5 K kills.

Been having good success at running, hiding, and ambush. Not so much at "honorable" combat (but if I get into that, it means I made a mistake). Better win / loss than K/Dr.

-1

Redline sniping, pub/protostomping, and running FOTM are their own rewards...and unworthy of prestige, admiration, or emulation.

What I should have said is, the longevity of the suit doesnt equate the price. If they gain a little more UMPH to the suit, it would be a viable option. Other wise, it is just rush, uplink, change suit.

^ I don't think they that heavy on the cpu/pg. I want to get green juice lvl. 3.

All the unnecessary jumping from null cannon platforms, hill crevices, line harvest pipes, etc are really eating up my stamina. What is so hard about lifting your knee to clear a 12" obstacle???

Gallente scouts have to choose between armor tank and speed tank due to stingy powergrid allocation. Fully maxed skills give what, 55pg on adv fit? The only sidearm that doesnt devour more pg is the flaylock and no high-tier player remains respectable when spamming that garbage...

My adv fits run 20k, proto is 100k+ so they stay hanging in the closet for now.

How do ya figure, sports fan?

4x proto kincats suffer from stacking penalties and top you out at 11m/s IFF you are willing to run tier 1 gear in every other slot. I like your math better than CCP's. Plus you're about as thick as a durex with no armor rep. Good luck w that!

Is there someone playing minmatar scout in CQC that doesn't use CPU enhancer? I'm wondering because i cant find a good fitting without a CPU enhancer.
( I would love to be in the list be only if i was in top 10 so no thank you )

electronics 5, core upgrades 4
min scout adv and pro. SG adv and pro + sidearm adv.

But you ask me my fitting when i ask for one ??

Are you on a adv minmattar scout ? and do you fit anything else?

Read up on the 'fixes' they're doing to aiming soon.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97285

Guess who'll be able to turn and reacquire targets quickly coming 1.4....everybody! Guess who's turn and aim we can out strafe after 1.4....nobody's!

Shaft after shaft...after shaft. How many nails are they using for our coffin anyways? Geez staaahp!

i had a few games in a row this morning against the same tanker teams and protoclowns with dual core flaylocks.... barely went positive (some games negative)... they were even flocking together all time... nearly impossible to sneak upon them -.-''

Notice that non of my proposed 'improvements' or additions mentioned anything about increasing HP. This means that in combat, the scout has to 'punch above its weight class' so to speak. This makes the paradigm of a glass cannon a real viable option. Right now slapping a damage mod on a high slot is completely stupid for a Min Scout and suicide for a Gallente Scout. The former Tac AR would've been a great Scout Marksman weapon -- I would've adjusted hipfire to today's levels, and bumped ROF down to a bit above today's levels, and kept mag size to 24 for all Tac ARS.

This damage buff doesn't apply to all Scout Suits, but a variant of it that specializes in high damage output with low HP -- glass cannon type. Or maybe make it apply to Scouts using a scoped weapon like say, a Tac AR, Sniper Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, Plasma Cannon (more like sights for the SR and PC...but you get the point).

To all our Scout brethren who are in the: 'well scouts aren't meant to play like assaults etc. etc....you just want everything.' I hate to break it to those of you, but you guys are probably the only ones still playing by the 'rules'. Meanwhile, everyone in their Assault/Logi (and to some extent the Heavies in Commando) suit is wrecking everything outside the box doing things more effectively than you at the 'role' you presume to excel at because 'that's how scouts are to be played'.

Unless of course, you want to be the one to tell the 'Cal Logies' of this world: 'Hey that's not how your suit is meant to be played!' while they ignore you as you lie bleeding out and getting tea bagged repeatedly. Good luck!

Someone even claimed that the Scout Sniper is the only thing working as intended? And how was it intended? To play second fiddle to a Logi who's highs are decked with damage mods, and lows with armor plates, while standing on a number of repair nanos, right next to an uplink in the unlikely event he get's killed? Please. You're na+»vet+¬ is adorable.

Wake up. If you're argument about how the scout isn't supposed to be so and so is the only thing you're hanging on to, then you just haven't been playing at the level of Dust that others in here call home. Whatever improvements those of us are trying to imagine in here serves also to benefit those content to play in pub games.

You're just going to have to trust your 'big bros' on this one. And please please, don't be the enemy what we're trying to do here.

How is 1.3 treating everyone so far? At work so I can't play until tonight. Any stealth nerfs or buffs for the Scouts?

I think it's sad for this game, the fact that I can take an ADV AR, and do better with it than my Proto Assault SMG with 3 in proficiency and dispersion :(

*takes a seat at the bar and starts field-stripping the SMG....*

Wow - this literally NEVER happens to me. I got stomped into the ground during my games earlier today! The best I had was a 5/6 and I was overjoyed to get that! I guess Wednesdays/Thursdays are corp pub-stomp days? Everyone trying to cap out..... I never knew that. I thought I just sucked extra bad on those days....

what is your precision. a fatty with lvl 3 profile dampening and 2 basic profile dampeners will be invisible to you if you have not leveled up your precision.

if there is a bunch of guys on top of a building then find a good perch to sit and snipe them from 400m away. isnt that the sniper way.

I would think a grappling hook to climb walls would be more of a scout tool to take care of guys on a roof. with sniper cover and remote explosives.

guess i watch to many movies.

minmatar scout bonus is a joke in my opinion. why would i want to melee if i can't see(scan range) hide(dampeners/cloak) to get to them in melee range. but makes for an OK dmg sniper(hint make the dmg buff for all weapons or at least sidearms) or more cpu/pg so I don't have to use one of the 2 lows for cpu booster. caldari assault is a better scout suit than the minmatar scout.

Switched to Lasers and the auto assist let me melt serious faces during my lunch break. Paired it with an SMG and an Active Scanner and at worst I broke even. I am not even skilled into lasers and was just using my free burnstalks I got a while back. I imagine Lasers are going to be the new FOTM this build.

Downside is I was still in a Scout suit lol... I imagine if I had been in an Assault I would have had nearly zero deaths. Took some getting used to also. Had to run away right after using the dang thing every time cause its like lighting a flaming arrow in the dark saying HERE I AM! COME KILL ME!

This aim assist bs needs to go I just lost 3 mill in 3 matches

The Light Suit gives the dampening bonus. The Gall Scout gives scan range bonus. Minmatar Scout gives bonus melee/NK damage.

The skill you need to at least three to unlock the racial scout variant is the one that gives the dampener bonus.

The skill that allows access to the suits that don't get the bonus gives better dampening to the suits that do get the bonuses.

This would be a he!! of a lot easier to explain if the skills were labeled correctly and/or the pilot suit was on the skill tree.

Before 1.4, Minnie scout was the ****! And I was sort of cursing myself for not going Minnie scout. But gall scout in 1.4 is better..

All because you can dampener tank or armor tank with it. Feel bad for the Minnie's tho :(

I assume I'll be getting my Vehicle SP refunded.

So if Scouts get any new weapons that are useful, thats where my SP is going.

I really want that Ion Pistol.

You guys know Cyrius Li-Moody from "Official Minja Business" fame:

Occasionally runs Scout.
Routinely pounds face.
Always a nice guy.

Iron Wolf Saber calls him a "Scrub" ... here:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=109719&find=unread

5710 - voidfaction (670, -0.62)

Is voidfaction newly a scout? This data would suggest so....or 1.4 hit hard. God, that **** never happens to medium frames...

Does anybody remember AOL?

How scout layouts should be

MK.0
3 highs / 3 lows

CK.0
4 highs / 2 lows

GK.0
2 highs / 4 lows

AK.0
2 highs / 3 lows / 2nd grenade slot and 1 equipment slot


Others get 2nd equipment slot

Minmatar is kind of the worst race to be. Throughout the Universe the race's theme is low HP, high base speed, low CPU/PG
Gallente is always the best when it comes to a Speed vs HP balance.

Take those high slots and use damage mods and run an AR. Flank them from a distance.
Let the Gallente charge in and blast them away.

Your nova knife bonus is a gimmick and not suited for he Suit's attributes at all.

3 lows on the minmatar please! I've only been asking for it on the last two pages. :(

I think the minmatar bonus is nice

you get the low profile

plus you get 2 advantages to cqc 1 being melee and 2 being NK

so really all in all your getting 3 bonuses

Rolled around in an passive scan winni tonight.

1 complex shield
1 enhanced precision

1 complex armor
1 enhanced range

It worked out surprisingly well. Oddly enough there were still times people snuck up on me...and it should be about 25m passive range at 35dB. It wasn't consistent with frames who did sneak up on me....even heavys.

I prefer to use damage mods instead of shields - the alpha is great for getting in and out quickly and to be honest, even with an extra 100 shield you're still going to die in a second if you're spotted by pretty much anyone.

I think the Meta 9 is 15 dB ... no point worrying about that one.
A level 5 Scout can beat 28 dB with a basic dampener and 2-3 points in dampening.

Had decent success running with this tonight:

ADV Minmatar Scout

Highs: 1x Complex Shield Extender, 1x Basic Precision Enhancer

Lows: 1x Enhanced Cardiac Regulator, 1x Enhanced Profile Damp

Weapons: Toxin Assault Rifle, Submachine Gun

Grenade: Flux

Equipment: Droplink

The sweet siren call of the Assault Rifle is calling. Its hard to resist too. Though I already have decent amounts of SP already sunk into NK's, SMGs, and Shotguns. Not sure I want to add AR's to my list also. Anyone else run a fit similar to this able to comment?

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=117279

New Rifles:
ETA not specified.
Appears that the vanilla AR may have dodged a nerf.

AV Nerfs:
Substantial nerfs to AV Nades and Swarms.
Why they focused on these, and not Forge Guns, I have no close.
Suspecting that HAVs and DS will be proportionally nerfed. We'll see.

What would you guys think if we got a buff to our scan range and precision? Say, buff our base range to 30-40 meters and scan precision to 35-40. Pretty much make us walking scanners. The 6 meter buff was nice, but in order to attain effective passive scan, we use up most of our precious CPU/PG.

You got good shield, I would use a shield regulator and drop the green juice, for a hawaiian puch.
Think like a ninja, you need to get up close and personal with any target. Linger for the right time to strike. Use unconventional routes to flank your targets. The more you play with them the more aggressive you'll be.

In cqc it is easy to lose sight of your target. When you shank, do a quick turn in the direction they went. Pay attention to the left knife as it has an arc.
I almost forgot about the pesky A. scanners. so use an adv dampener in one of L slots.

I"m just throwing my Christmas List Scout Hotfix that I am hoping to see from CCP, and I am not just listing topics, we all mostly agree on the items that need boosted but I was curious on what you guys thought on the actual numbers, let me know if I'm breaking something.


I particularly like the first one

1) Profile Signature and Precision drop down from 45 to 40

- Doing this will save cpu and will functionally give the scout one extra low slot

--40 (.9) (.75 )= 27,

- Which is dead on where it needs to be considering the high level of sp investment it takes to get it there to beat a cheaper equipment item. This is also useful since high slot scouts (min/cal) will be suffering choice wise since low slots are so important (its why the gal is better than the min at the moment), it also frees up the gal scout for better cqc survival.

- Reduce Dampening mods by a factor of 5% to bring them in line with precision enhancers. This will also reduce the logi/medium "scout" phenomena, while making it hard for the scout to beat the focus


2) Base Stamina increase from 200 to 300

- This increases sprint duration from 20 seconds to 30 seconds

- Since CCP has a very low unofficial and now untested speed cap, stamina can be used to help alleviate the issue


3) Increase movement/sprint by .5 for each scout, and see how well that works

-The hit detection can account for this small increase


4) Fall Damage needs to be reduced by 80%

-Because of its current iteration, scouts one main defensive feature is cut incredible short due to this short fall, in fact the scout under duress has less escape options than the other dropsuits due to the high cost of fall damage on the scout.



Wild Card

Stealth Hacking- Doesn't notify that an objective is being hacked until it enters the contested state

I like this one because this would make scouts extremely useful in PC/FW/Skirmish on this factor alone.

Things I'll still be looking for in 1.7 Patch Notes:

* Nerfed Med Frame strafe and back-pedal speed.
* Nerfed Logi movement and sprint speed. - better to take slots
* Introduced weapon-sway mechanic.
* Slowed aim-down-sights.
* Opened hip-fire reticule on ARs, ScRs and aScRs.
* Added recoil / down-range dispersion to SMGs, ARs and aScRs.
* Applied CQC limitations to Rail Rifle and Combat Rifles. - wait and see
* Fixed HMG lack of dispersion; buffed range.
* Buffed Shotgun range ; buffed damage dropoff.
* Fixed Framerate drops on interior maps (i.e. Gal Research).
* Fixed "Spin Scanning" .

Nova knives are better though.........somewhat

I need a quick number crunch. Gallente level 3, range amplification 5 and possible 2 complex mods for range amp but i dont have them equipped. What is basic scan range for me now and the possible range through modules please?

Absolutely.

Honestly, tank spam and the lack of scout love are the only two problems I have with 1.7. The rest is pretty great.

Tank Spam is a problem; solutions are pretty straight-forward ...

* Dramatically increase price of tanks (all tiers).
* Increase effectiveness of all AV (i.e. nerf reversal).
* Find another way to equalize Risk / Reward.

If it can be hotfixed now, why wait an entire month?

Edit: FF hotfix inbound for Mon/Tue. Fingers crossed for an included HAV fix.

Since it is supposed to mitigated by fitting cost, unless the logo problem is addressed in a specific way, this will be a problem.

I think tweaking the flaylock is great idea... and trading splash damage for splash range, while improving direct hit damage seems reasonable.

Personally I'd like to see something off the wall for a Minmatar explosive weapon. Like being able to burst or cluster fire all 3 shots at once for massive alpha damage.

having cloak in equipment slot, doesnt allow you to spawn in cloaked.

snip

I think out of the light weapon, equipment, slot options, slots are thy most unlikely to happen, unless you got some sort of dev secrets, I'd like to see you think this is happening.

Due to wording I personally think its going to be equipment, which is fine but you guys are giving 0 reasons for why the light weapon is a bad idea

Light Weapon Slot pros
A) Prevents AR Cloak 514
B) Harsh trade off allows for a strong cloak
C) Balances across frames, 1) he already powerful logi loses offensive if they cloak 2) Comamndos now can actually fulfill their role due to their slot allocation
D) Gives people reason to not run the cloak beyond hard counters

I'm equally open for active modules, light weapon, or equipment options, and I can give a pro / con to any implementation but saying "no" doesn't really cut it for an argument and is kind of a pet peeve of mine. That is just lazy, not that any of us are immune to bad ideas but at least walk through the idea of why it is a bad idea. Enlighten us as you will.

It may not be what you like, so you can tell us how this interrupts you dream build but I don't see how it is a bad idea, its seems feasible, and balance is obtainable with it as a light weapon, which I'm sure its possible to balance it under different implementation.

Though I am curious on how you are seeking a balance with a high slot module, is it going to be an active module or a constant weak camo?

Scout buff = Cardboard Box
We need it now

Now if kincats weren't so damn intensive.

I am with you ... I recently got my Minnie scout up to level four ... and already have my Gallente scout at 4. Other than the basic Min logi and basic Min assault (neither of which I use) ... those are the only points on dropsuits for me.

Vehicle-Mounted Scanners ping at pretty high dB; they shouldn't be picking up Scouts.
... by my math, at least :-)

I will always believe that the Commando is better suited for scouts. We even have the black eagle.

I mean, think about what the commando is to the heavy. Higher speed, +1 equipment slot, dual light weapons... Even the name would be great for the scout.
Instead of being called the Commandon't there'd be something extra for scouts.

If I recall, one scenario came really close ... like .02 or something. So choosing Level II or III came down to how decimal rounding rules are handled, and whether or not a tie favors the scanner or scanned. Forgot the progression at hand. I love you, Brother, but I don't care to redo all the math :-)

Well we no longer have a damping bonus it seems.

Okay
So if we get a 10%/lvl fitting bonus to cloaks, with our currently low cpu/pg and...
If the logi get a 5%/lvl fitting to equipment and have substantially more cpu/pg than usGǪ does this not make their 5% much better than our 10%GǪ.
Not saying mathematically their bonus is better, but if their CPU and PG stays higher the 5% bonus will make it easier to fit than our 10% bonus, no?

Do you drive tanks?

So in anticipation of the upcoming event, I have my NK build:

Scout G/1-Series
Complex Sidearm Damage Modifier X2
Carthum Assault Scrambler Rifle
ZN-28 Nova Knives (unless State Nova Knives exists, do they?)
Compact Nanohive
flux grenade
Basic Profile Dampener
Complex Kinetic Catalyzer.

I'm going to have so many deaths. This will be fun. I just wish the suit was 1H3L because I could add a range amp to it.

oh i just realised something, they said the're taking away sidearm for EQ, but it's not specified which tiers are w/o sidearm ,and which ones are with 2 EQ slots. hope it will not turn out that all tiers - no sidearm, proto- additional eq ;)

What if instead of simply removing a sidearm and adding an EQ slot the Scout suit layout is:

1 Light weapon
1 Sidearm
2 equipment

But they cannot have 2 of each.

Equipping a Light weapon and a Sidearm allows you to equip 1 equipment, trying to fit a second will invalidate the fitting

Equipping 2 equipment items allows you to fill either the light or sidearm slot, trying to fill both will again invalidate the fitting.

I think this would be a better approach then to simply strong-arm the scouts into a particular role, give us options and the ability to create diverse and creative fittings

again that's eve and not dust.

I doubt when launched a cloak will cost more than any other piece of equipment.

If they fixed footsteps so they were a reliable indicator they wouldn't need to make cloaks hum.

Since seemingly the only way CCP can be talked into giving scouts anything is by letting them take something(s) of greater value away, I suppose grenades would be missed the least.

@Daxxis


He specifically said "mod slots".

You were saying. :P

Btw if you counted Equipment, Cal Logi has 12, as does Min Logi and Gal Logi, Amarr has 10 slots including equipment.

Say it with me: Scouts are slightly faster and far flimsier than all the other suits, and it doesn't equal out. Unless the cloak allows us to run up and ABSOLUTELY OHK everything this side of a MCC, then CCP can keep it in the closet. If you can't make us better in a FPShooter (see that word shooter?), then just leave us the heck alone.

That would work.

If a guy was beating the tar out of you with a lo mein noodle, would you hand him an aluminum baseball bat? They fear the players who wield the scouts, sir.

Iron Wolf Saber weighed our pleas, solicited our input, intervened on our behalf and appears to have delivered.
Furthermore, he has embraced the tools of our trade and lived to tell his tale, no doubt now addicted to Knives.
For his efforts and consideration, I propose we declare him Honorary Scout.

All in Favor?

Red, Green, Codebreaker for me

Yeah, I've had it happen a couple of times, too. Once, I was lucky enough that when the guy switched to his gun, I was already close enough to end him with my knives...

The other time? I wasn't so lucky...

I got him with an RE before the match was over, but still ... if you carry the knives, you should know the code.

I posted my thoughts about the Amarr scout in another thread if you guys wanna give a read. I'd like to know what people think about all these scouts in general.

So far there's been very little buzz about the caldari scout. To me it's kind of the most boring. Not my style.

I posted that idea many many months ago. So of course I agree with it
Although I think it should work like actual real-world dB attenuation, not just "meter per dB".

Also, this would mean SUPER-loud stuff like dropships and tanks, should be super-detectable.

1.9 to release of The Dark Below I will be playing DUST regularly (by which I mean capping out) again.

That doesn't sound worth it to me.

Unless I hear otherwise, I will probably not be putting more money into the game.