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Oswald Rehnquist wrote:

Cass Caul wrote:

This right here. Quill, just stop. Light Weapon? really? No, that is an awful idea. It really only works as a high slot. When it comes out 1 of two things has to happen, either (A) we get a second equipment slot or (B) it is a module. Scanning bonus and making it easier to deploy uplinks as Remnant suggests really only has those two options.

I think out of the light weapon, equipment, slot options, slots are thy most unlikely to happen, unless you got some sort of dev secrets, I'd like to see you think this is happening.

Due to wording I personally think its going to be equipment, which is fine but you guys are giving 0 reasons for why the light weapon is a bad idea

Light Weapon Slot pros
A) Prevents AR Cloak 514
B) Harsh trade off allows for a strong cloak
C) Balances across frames, 1) he already powerful logi loses offensive if they cloak 2) Comamndos now can actually fulfill their role due to their slot allocation
D) Gives people reason to not run the cloak beyond hard counters

I'm equally open for active modules, light weapon, or equipment options, and I can give a pro / con to any implementation but saying "no" doesn't really cut it for an argument and is kind of a pet peeve of mine. That is just lazy, not that any of us are immune to bad ideas but at least walk through the idea of why it is a bad idea. Enlighten us as you will.

It may not be what you like, so you can tell us how this interrupts you dream build but I don't see how it is a bad idea, its seems feasible, and balance is obtainable with it as a light weapon, which I'm sure its possible to balance it under different implementation.

Though I am curious on how you are seeking a balance with a high slot module, is it going to be an active module or a constant weak camo?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Oswald Rehnquist 920	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:00:00 - [5401] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: This right here. Quill, just stop. Light Weapon? really? No, that is an awful idea. It really only works as a high slot. When it comes out 1 of two things has to happen, either (A) we get a second equipment slot or (B) it is a module. Scanning bonus and making it easier to deploy uplinks as Remnant suggests really only has those two options. I think out of the light weapon, equipment, slot options, slots are thy most unlikely to happen, unless you got some sort of dev secrets, I'd like to see you think this is happening. Due to wording I personally think its going to be equipment, which I'll live with that but you guys are giving 0 reasons for why the light weapon is a bad idea Light Weapon Slot A) Prevents AR Cloak 514 B) Harsh trade off allows for a strong cloak C) Balances across frames, 1) he already powerful logi loses offensive if they cloak 2) Comamndos now can actually fulfill their role due to their slot allocation D) Gives people reason to not run the cloak beyond hard counters I'm equally open for active modules, light weapon, or equipment options, and I can give a pro / con to any implementation but saying "no" doesn't really cut it for an argument and is kind of a pet peeve of mine. That is just lazy, not that any of us are immune to bad ideas but at least walk through the idea of why it is a bad idea. Enlighten us as you will. It may not be what you like, so you can tell us how this interrupts you dream build but I don't see how it is a bad idea, its seems feasible, and balance is obtainable with it as a light weapon, which I'm sure its possible to balance it under different implementation. Though I am curious on how you are seeking a balance with a high slot module, is it going to be an active module or a constant weak camo? Below 28 dB
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 784	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:02:00 - [5402] - Quote rekt'd Parody Dust 514 Lyrics Vote for Delt
Oswald Rehnquist 920	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:03:00 - [5403] - Quote Jak'Saan wrote: Dudes, CCP doesn't read this thread... nor do they care about scouts... nor will they ever care until the last Medium frame stops QQ'ing about something or another. Heck even until the last Heavy stops QQ'ing about something. To date, everyone that is not scout has been heard and represented by the nerf/love bat at least once in one form or another. AV, Vehicles, Assault, Logi, Heavy, etc... Scout received... some base scan range. Why are we still talking about cloak, like it is ever going to happen. CCP. Does. Not. Care. About. Scouts. 270 pages, no blue tag. The worst part is that you guys are getting upset at each other for having bad ideas or for not liking your good ideas... lol. "You have the worst idea ever that CCP will never even look at! You are going to ruin us all by CCP never implementing your idea!" is basically what you are saying. Well I can top it all, you see I have the best idea ever that CCP will never look at. And I will winning us all by CCP never implementing my idea! And you can't prove otherwise! LOLLLLLLL! This is more of a no conflict viewpoint, its perfectly legitimate to talk about cloaks, new potential guns, new suits, etc theory crafting means we are ahead of the game with anything they do implement and it is how dropships got to where they are now. The dropship community is much more theory crafted oriented than we are, and as such they get listened to more often. Below 28 dB
Llast 326 An Arkhos 884	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:07:00 - [5404] - Quote Reorienting with Knives: I jump sometimes buys a second to figure out WTH is going on, see tacnet and change position. Enemy does not expected and breaks trackingGÇª sometimes KRRROOOOOOM
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 785	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:21:00 - [5405] - Quote Rekt'd killboard-2 Parody Dust 514 Lyrics Vote for Delt
mollerz Minja Scouts 1372	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:54:00 - [5406] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Reorienting with Knives: I jump sometimes buys a second to figure out WTH is going on, see tacnet and change position. Enemy does not expected and breaks trackingGÇª sometimes That also gives you an opportunity to charge slash as you come down. If you manage to land it it's usually insta-blap. #shittycoding
Llast 326 An Arkhos 885	Posted - 2013.12.18 02:53:00 - [5407] - Quote mollerz wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Reorienting with Knives: I jump sometimes buys a second to figure out WTH is going on, see tacnet and change position. Enemy does not expected and breaks trackingGÇª sometimes That also gives you an opportunity to charge slash as you come down. If you manage to land it it's usually insta-blap. And looks badass Sometimes the intimidation factor of looking like you know what you are doing gives an edge KRRROOOOOOM
Ghost Kaisar Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1214	Posted - 2013.12.18 02:57:00 - [5408] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Rekt'd killboard-2 Not trying to one up, but I had an amazing round today too! 32-2 with AR/NK combo. 2563 WP. Emphasis on the NK of course Minmatar Faction Warfare: Let's get Organized
Cass Caul 540	Posted - 2013.12.18 03:05:00 - [5409] - Quote OK, i have made myself happy. I forgot you can hide someone's posts. Now I never have to see terible ideas from Oswald Rehnquist. Those posts were- they just had too much disconnect between the game, the universe, and feasibility . No love has been lost by doing the same to quill everything. He can occasionally critique other bad ideas, but... ugh. I am done. Shotguns, you twerps, are intimate to high-end competitive games. They dominate cities far better than a Forge Gun or Mass Driver. Allotek breach and Duvolle or Fed Specialist breach points and hack before re-spawn happens. They are only truly gimped by their optimal range and drastic damage falloff. The lack of a light weapon would negatively impact infiltration, even if you had perfect invisibility even while shooting. +Éß¦ëddGêÇ -çou -Äll+É-çoGö¦ A girl, on the internet?! I roll to disbelieve.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1375	Posted - 2013.12.18 03:25:00 - [5410] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: mollerz wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Reorienting with Knives: I jump sometimes buys a second to figure out WTH is going on, see tacnet and change position. Enemy does not expected and breaks trackingGÇª sometimes That also gives you an opportunity to charge slash as you come down. If you manage to land it it's usually insta-blap. And looks badass Sometimes the intimidation factor of looking like you know what you are doing gives an edge People teabag me or melee my dying body all the time #shittycoding

Llast 326 An Arkhos 887	Posted - 2013.12.18 03:38:00 - [5411] - Quote mollerz wrote: Llast 326 wrote: mollerz wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Reorienting with Knives: I jump sometimes buys a second to figure out WTH is going on, see tacnet and change position. Enemy does not expected and breaks trackingGÇª sometimes That also gives you an opportunity to charge slash as you come down. If you manage to land it it's usually insta-blap. And looks badass Sometimes the intimidation factor of looking like you know what you are doing gives an edge People teabag me or melee my dying body all the time I think the most honoured I felt was when a guy unloaded an AR clip into my corpse, reloaded and kept firing until i went to spawn. KRRROOOOOOM
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 535	Posted - 2013.12.18 04:33:00 - [5412] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Cass Caul wrote: This right here. Quill, just stop. Light Weapon? really? No, that is an awful idea. It really only works as a high slot. When it comes out 1 of two things has to happen, either (A) we get a second equipment slot or (B) it is a module. Scanning bonus and making it easier to deploy uplinks as Remnant suggests really only has those two options. I think out of the light weapon, equipment, slot options, slots are thy most unlikely to happen, unless you got some sort of dev secrets, I'd like to see you think this is happening. Due to wording I personally think its going to be equipment, which is fine but you guys are giving 0 reasons for why the light weapon is a bad idea Light Weapon Slot pros A) Prevents AR Cloak 514 B) Harsh trade off allows for a strong cloak C) Balances across frames, 1) he already powerful logi loses offensive if they cloak 2) Comamndos now can actually fulfill their role due to their slot allocation D) Gives people reason to not run the cloak beyond hard counters I'm equally open for active modules, light weapon, or equipment options, and I can give a pro / con to any implementation but saying "no" doesn't really cut it for an argument and is kind of a pet peeve of mine. That is just lazy, not that any of us are immune to bad ideas but at least walk through the idea of why it is a bad idea. Enlighten us as you will. It may not be what you like, so you can tell us how this interrupts you dream build but I don't see how it is a bad idea, its seems feasible, and balance is obtainable with it as a light weapon, which I'm sure its possible to balance it under different implementation. Though I am curious on how you are seeking a balance with a high slot module, is it going to be an active module or a constant weak camo? But his "pro" was rather weak - why would you want to spawn cloak in an overrun area only to have that cloak break once you have to get out of there. His main reasoning was he wanted to spawn cloak and not lose uplinks because a team could be redlining you. That is a very precise situation to give up my light weapon. And the reasoning was well they wont give us another equipment slot, which they easily can or as most have said, will forego using cloak and just use normal stealth techniques. I also pointed out that he had other options to deal with that precise instance so most wouldnt give up their light weapon. I also give him
Oswald Rehnquist 929	Posted - 2013.12.18 05:05:00 - [5413] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: But his "pro" was rather weak - why would you want to spawn cloak in an overrun area only to have that cloak break once you have to get out of there. His main reasoning was he wanted to spawn cloak and not lose uplinks because a team could be redlining you. That is a very precise situation to give up my light weapon. And the reasoning was well they wont give us another equipment slot, which they easily can or as most have said, will forego using cloak and just use normal stealth techniques. I also pointed out that he had other options to deal with that precise instance so most wouldnt give up their light weapon. I also give him Hence I jumped in , to throw out some pros to have people pick apart. Not saying that the light weapon slot was my stance, the most likely result, or the best stance, just that it can be feasible / balanced if that is the direction, which was the gist of the post, again not life or death, I'm surviving now so I'd survive either way. I personally favor the equipment option, because I think I've accepted that as the most likely option anyways (terrible reasoning but meh), but the light weapon option is still entertaining, likewise is the active module, in a game that is as raw as dust is, we can go further into functionality than most games. I also like arguing the con for people to flesh out their pros, I also like it when people critique my ideas because it makes me look at the finer details of the idea I'm throwing out, which is why I post stuff. If you go through my post you'd see I frequently list the pros / defend something and then turn around and go through the negatives of it. I've been for a second equipment, then against it, and back to supporting it. Initially being against the idea of combining precision enhancements and scan extenders to being for it. Unless there was name calling on the other pages that I missed or something this shouldn't be causing any fuss as far as I'm concerned we are just discussing pros and cons of different types of implementations or even if it should be implemented at all, which I enjoy, and if I have a certain stance one week, doesn't' mean it will stay the same the next. Below 28 dB
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 570	Posted - 2013.12.18 05:30:00 - [5414] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Though I am curious on how you are seeking a balance with a high slot module, is it going to be an active module or a constant weak camo? But his "pro" was rather weak - why would you want to spawn cloak in an overrun area only to have that cloak break once you have to get out of there. His main reasoning was he wanted to spawn cloak and not lose uplinks because a team could be redlining you. It was the most blatant reason. But it isnt limited to redlining; that's just the most extreme example. bottom line: it's very difficult for scouts... or anyone really... to traverse some of the "wide open spaces" maps to get in an uplink sometimes. The obvious solution for this, is to have a cloak. If cloaks take up equipment slots....then dropping uplinks will then become the primary domain of logis, because after all, they will be able to carry uplinks, AND a cloak, AND damping modules. Scouts will then very clearly be the inferior choice for dropping uplinks. Is that really what you want? The non-equipment choices for where to put a cloak are: grenade (possible, but unlikely) "special" slot for scouts (Not going to happen, since they have now decided 'everyone' should be able to equip it) module slot (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, I'll bet anyone 10 to 1 odds against it) light slot (a possibility) Given the choices between EQ slot and light weapon slot for cloak, my personal preference would be light slot, so I can still keep uplinks/REs/scanners, and also keep my best weapons of choice, TT3 and knives. If someone else has a different opinion.. okay, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Just dont be an ass about it: admit that it's YOUR OPINION, rather than "everyone else's opinion sucks and has no validity".
mollerz Minja Scouts 1379	Posted - 2013.12.18 05:47:00 - [5415] - Quote 1) The act of attacking would break the cloak. Not the turning off the module and then attacking. 2) You can not sprint without causing a lot of visual distortion and making you far easier to see, yet not totally decloak as well. The cloak would resume fully as you transitioned into walk speed. This way you couldn't just run up to a group fully cloaked and uncloak as you swung your knives. 3) If you break your cloak there should be a recovery period based on a skill level. Not ten minutes either. perhaps 30s to start with a 10% decrease per cloaking skill. 4) the cloak should take up a high slot. The balance is perpetuated by the vulnurability of the suit. equipping a cloak then further weakens a scouts defenses as they lose a shield extender. Losing a shield extender on even aproto minja currently still keps you at 300 fully skilled out. 5) minjas and ganjas should have different cloaking utlizations. Ganja more recon based. minja more assasination based. Furthermore, in any design implementations. I need to insist it is true to the Proto minja scout description that has been on the suit since their inception. - It is definitely a module- high slot makes the most sense. - It is balanced by the already existing weakness of the suit, thus draconian fittings and irregular slot placement is not a balance in any which way. - It is combat worthy to the point of accentuating assassination, recon, and intel gathering per the description. Any deviation from the minmatar scout description is a hamstrung balance band aid. And I would then want a respec because once again, CCP did a bait and switch on what I've been patiently awaiting development of representing my time put into this game since day 1. Quil, hopefully this gives you what you are looking for from another point of view. #shittycoding
Ghost Kaisar Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1221	Posted - 2013.12.18 05:58:00 - [5416] - Quote I THOUGHT WE DECIDED TO FINISH THE CLOAK CONVERSATION Minmatar Faction Warfare: Let's get Organized
mollerz Minja Scouts 1380	Posted - 2013.12.18 06:09:00 - [5417] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: I THOUGHT WE DECIDED TO FINISH THE CLOAK CONVERSATION And let Quil speak for us? NOPE. #shittycoding
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 571	Posted - 2013.12.18 06:28:00 - [5418] - Quote mollerz wrote: 4) the cloak should take up a high slot. it would be nice, but I dont think its going to happen. If it's not going to be a module slot, what would you prefer? eq slot, or light weapon slot?
mollerz Minja Scouts 1381	Posted - 2013.12.18 06:30:00 - [5419] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: mollerz wrote: 4) the cloak should take up a high slot. it would be nice, but I dont think its going to happen. If it's not going to be a module slot, what would you prefer? eq slot, or light weapon slot? Keep ignoring the fact it says module in the scout description then? Sorry man. Your ideas are not up to par. #shittycoding
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1662	Posted - 2013.12.18 06:38:00 - [5420] - Quote Ever since 1.7 I've been able to sneak up on enemies way too easily with a complex dampener, a scanner, and a shotgun/combat rifle. Then again I do use a minmatar logistics, but I don't exactly have a ton of health or even a sidearm to help finish someone off. Trust me though, I almost quit with 1.7 because of lag and dying 10-15 times per match the first few days (I even made a post about it and found that EVERYONE has been dying more, not just scouts) My buddy Flako is a trooper though and uses the scout like an Assault with faster movement speed. We will live on in the name of the scouts! At least Scouts have an easier time than heavies. Poor heavies. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!

Faunher The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 43	Posted - 2013.12.18 06:53:00 - [5421] - Quote I've really been loving Minmatar light frames. Haven't skilled into scout yet, but with the light frames, 2 sensor dampeners, 1 sensor booster, and 2 advanced SMGs I have been getting very satisfying results. Scout is tough, but if you play it how it's meant to be played you will excel (it's just a shame that scouts cannot fill their niche of scouting better than any other suit).
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 571	Posted - 2013.12.18 06:55:00 - [5422] - Quote mollerz wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: If it's not going to be a module slot, what would you prefer? eq slot, or light weapon slot? Keep ignoring the fact it says module in the scout description then? Sorry man. Your ideas are not up to par. your grasp of CCP reality, is not up to par. I'll bet you 10 to 1 it's not going to be a hi/low module. If it is, I'll pay you 1,000,000 ISK. If it isnt a module, you pay me 100,000 ISK.
Ghost Kaisar Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1228	Posted - 2013.12.18 07:03:00 - [5423] - Quote mollerz wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: I THOUGHT WE DECIDED TO FINISH THE CLOAK CONVERSATION And let Quil speak for us? NOPE. Problem Solved. Have a thread Minmatar Faction Warfare: Let's get Organized
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1967	Posted - 2013.12.18 11:02:00 - [5424] - Quote I can't believe we're still discussing what slot cloaks will be in! CCP constantly refers to them as equipment. IWS dropped in here recently to allude to some very special equipment that will greatly improve the life of scouts. Weapons go in weapon slots - nothing that is not a weapon should ever go there. Likewise grenades go in grenade slots. Modules would need total recoding for active modules to be added to dropsuits. (descriptions have never ever been updated, so are zero evidence of future or even current intentions) CCP have never ever said anything against the idea of giving scouts an extra equipment slot, so that is not necessarily off the cards, like someone said earlier. CCP has said that the CPU usage will be MASSIVE with scouts getting an equally huge reduction - if a cloak takes 400CPU and and we get a 95% reduction, we will pretty much be the only viable cloaking suits. Pretty sure CCP said you won't be able to shoot cloaked in one of the dev blogs describing it. Tell me people arguing - IFF we get an extra equipment slot, what would be the drawbacks to having cloaks as equipment? Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 164	Posted - 2013.12.18 11:19:00 - [5425] - Quote im not to worried about a cloak with the current inbalance of the duvolle focused scanner....and im wondering if your crosshairs will turn red if theres a cloaked scout in your LOS.
Scout Registry 107	Posted - 2013.12.18 13:04:00 - [5426] - Quote FW FF Changes (specifics): CCP Nullarbor wrote: The damage tracking was incorrect so we fixed that. We excluded equipment so only vehicles and dropsuits count. We fixed collision damage going crazy and booting people, so crushing someone with a dropship is no longer an instant kick.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 6407	Posted - 2013.12.18 13:31:00 - [5427] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: FW FF Changes (specifics): CCP Nullarbor wrote: The damage tracking was incorrect so we fixed that. We excluded equipment so only vehicles and dropsuits count. We fixed collision damage going crazy and booting people, so crushing someone with a dropship is no longer an instant kick. So can I use Jihadi Jeeps in FW? Probably not ... I'd test it for you, but it'd jeopardize my level. Perhaps do it on an enemy faction? Level 6 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Llast 326 An Arkhos 889	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:20:00 - [5428] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: FW FF Changes (specifics): CCP Nullarbor wrote: The damage tracking was incorrect so we fixed that. We excluded equipment so only vehicles and dropsuits count. We fixed collision damage going crazy and booting people, so crushing someone with a dropship is no longer an instant kick. So can I use Jihadi Jeeps in FW? Probably not ... I'd test it for you, but it'd jeopardize my level. They said vehicles still count so JJ is still going to be diceyGÇª But i can now kill lag generated by my team Had a game against Quil and Os last night where my blues had spammed so many uplinks i was teleporting not sprinting Unloaded 13 rounds from my pistol into the back of Os's head before he went down (sorry) ** you spammers I got this ** now And RE just became viable on HAVs without kick risk KRRROOOOOOM
mollerz Minja Scouts 1388	Posted - 2013.12.18 19:01:00 - [5429] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: mollerz wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: I THOUGHT WE DECIDED TO FINISH THE CLOAK CONVERSATION And let Quil speak for us? NOPE. Problem Solved. Have a thread There is something to be said about discussing scoutly things here before opening it up to the med suit crowd #shittycoding
Scout Registry 108	Posted - 2013.12.18 20:30:00 - [5430] - Quote @ Ghost Thanks for moving the cloak "debate" to its own thread. Cinnamon Toast w/Mayonnaise. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=130096 @ Quil Your idea was met with resistance here among Brothers. In Ghost's thread, you assert that it "would also leave most scouts quite happy, since using sidearms as primary weapon is quite common ...". In the future, I'd humbly request that you take a poll (at minimum) prior to positing on behalf of the majority. Thank you.



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