Might see about the possibility of reversing the cloak spectrum (blue tint for standing still, near perfect invisibility for running). Not sure yet.

Is reversing stuff the in thing with the CPM at the moment? jk

It's an interesting idea though. A bit strange, I'm not completely sold. Might work quite nicely though.

I still think the decloak delay needs to be reduced. I understand why it was implemented, and fully agreed with it at the time. Though I had hoped it could be implemented in a more elegant way. It is clunky, making it awkward to use.

The decloak delay was needed at the time, but I really don't think it is anymore. At least not as much of a delay.

Delay was introduced to reduce the ability to attack from cloak. However, the ability to passively scan everyone nearby, along with seeing their direction arrows, whilst cloaked was very powerful. The cloak-blind effect dramatically reduces the ability to attack from cloak on it's own. As your situational awareness whilst cloaked is considerably hampered compared to how it was in the past. It's a mechanic I quite like though, and thematically it feels fun. Cloaking feels like submerging in a submarine. It seems to make sense that your senses are limited, and goes nicely with the LOTR style sound muffling.

This cloak-blind, combined with the requirement of more precision to have reasonable passive scans when you do decloak, and the fact that the assaults, logis and commandos running around are all a fair bit more powerful than when the cloak delay was brought in (particularly assaults), means that I don't think we really need the clunky decloak delay mechanic anymore. Or, at least just to limit people firing shotguns whilst still invisible, we don't need the delay to be anything like as long as it is now.

Edit - just to be clear, this isn't because I want to run headfirst into someone with my hp tanked up scout and instablap someone in the face before they can react. Which I believe is what people objected to in the past. It's to do with the time it takes to decloak, and the vulnerable state it leaves you in. The biggest issue is that you can't sprint. You can decloak whilst sprinting, but you can't start sprinting whilst you are decloaking without leaving you decloaked and unarmed. This is more of a hinderance than you may think. Though undeniably being able to attack much sooner after decloak would make attacking targets from behind easier, which I think is no bad thing. Yes it would make you less vulnerable when fighting head on from cloak, but not enough in the current game to make cloaks OP like they were deemed to be in the past.

"Send laywers, guns and money."

Fair compensation is always subjective but the attempt was made with the Breach Mass Driver doing full damage against vehicles. To put into perspective what kind of damage you're looking at, a Minmatar Commando with maxxed skills does about 701.32 armor damage per round. If you hit the HAV's weak point, you're doing 1051.98 damage per round. Given that you actually -can- aim at weak points instead of having to fiddle with lock times, flight times, terrain, etc... landing all six rounds will come out to a total of 4207.92 to 6,311.88 damage.

Versus all volleys from a Wiyrkomi Swarm which would be 5,683.44.

This also includes the fact that you can use a Breach MD against infantry as well, which is a sizable benefit over the Swarm Launcher which does not have that capability.

Fair compensation is always subjective but the attempt was made with the Breach Mass Driver doing full damage against vehicles. To put into perspective what kind of damage you're looking at, a Minmatar Commando with maxxed skills does about 701.32 armor damage per round. If you hit the HAV's weak point, you're doing 1051.98 damage per round. Given that you actually -can- aim at weak points instead of having to fiddle with lock times, flight times, terrain, etc... landing all six rounds will come out to a total of 4207.92 to 6,311.88 damage.

Versus all volleys from a Wiyrkomi Swarm which would be 5,683.44.

This also includes the fact that you can use a Breach MD against infantry as well, which is a sizable benefit over the Swarm Launcher which does not have that capability.

Not sure where "scouts remained the same or got worse stats" is coming from. Minmatar Scout got a hefty buff.

Caldari Scout got a buff: (+5 shield threshold, -1 depleted delay)
Minmatar Scout got a buff: (+5 recharge rate, -0.5 shield delay, -1s depleted delay, +4 shield threshold)
Gallente Scout got both: (+1 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers), -1 depleted delay, +3 shield threshold)
Amarr Scout got both: (+1.5 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers), +2 shield threshold)

Only one I'm really worried about is the Amarr Scout, honestly. Thing is a watered down Cal Scout with no real purpose or role. Something that I'm adding to my project list.

Please don't use the shield threshold as a way to show scouts got buffed. I knew they would be a massive red herring.

I don't know if I've just completely misunderstood shield threshold, but as far as I can tell they make almost no difference to the game at all.

So let's review the list of changes.

Caldari Scout got a minor buff: ( -1 depleted delay)
Minmatar Scout got a minor buff: (+5 recharge rate, -0.5 shield delay, -1s depleted delay,)
Gallente Scout got both: (+1 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers), -1 depleted delay,) Though as an armour suit, depleted delay is more relevant.
Amarr Scout got a minor nerf: (+1.5 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers),

Compared to large buffs to the shields on other suits (bar the Cal sentinel).

Yes the statement "scouts remained the same or got worse stats" is not technically true. The sentiment is basically correct though. Scouts remain roughly where they are now, compared with large buffs to other suits.

I'm not trying to say mediums and commandos are going to be massively OP just due to these shield regen changes. But please don't say the shield thresholds contribute in a meaningful way to a scout buff.

I understand why you would, because buffing threshold technically is a buff. I just think it is insignificant.

Please don't use the shield threshold as a way to show scouts got buffed. I knew they would be a massive red herring.

I don't know if I've just completely misunderstood shield threshold, but as far as I can tell they make almost no difference to the game at all.

So let's review the list of changes.

Caldari Scout got a minor buff: ( -1 depleted delay)
Minmatar Scout got a minor buff: (+5 recharge rate, -0.5 shield delay, -1s depleted delay,)
Gallente Scout got both: (+1 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers), -1 depleted delay,) Though as an armour suit, depleted delay is more relevant.
Amarr Scout got a minor nerf: (+1.5 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers),

Compared to large buffs to the shields on other suits (bar the Cal sentinel).

Yes the statement "scouts remained the same or got worse stats" is not technically true. The sentiment is basically correct though. Scouts remain roughly where they are now, compared with large buffs to other suits.

I'm not trying to say mediums and commandos are going to be massively OP just due to these shield regen changes. But please don't say the shield thresholds contribute in a meaningful way to a scout buff.

I understand why you would, because buffing threshold technically is a buff. I just think it is insignificant.

I entirely discount the shield thresholds. If you can explain why I shouldn't that would be great, because I don't think I get it at the moment.

Either that, or everyone's gone, "Oo, shield threshold, that sounds great!" without actually thinking through what it means in game.

Is reversing stuff the in thing with the CPM at the moment? jk

It's an interesting idea though. A bit strange, I'm not completely sold. Might work quite nicely though.

-text walll-

Fair compensation is always subjective but the attempt was made with the Breach Mass Driver doing full damage against vehicles. To put into perspective what kind of damage you're looking at, a Minmatar Commando with maxxed skills does about 701.32 armor damage per round. If you hit the HAV's weak point, you're doing 1051.98 damage per round. Given that you actually -can- aim at weak points instead of having to fiddle with lock times, flight times, terrain, etc... landing all six rounds will come out to a total of 4207.92 to 6,311.88 damage.

Versus all volleys from a Wiyrkomi Swarm which would be 5,683.44.

This also includes the fact that you can use a Breach MD against infantry as well, which is a sizable benefit over the Swarm Launcher which does not have that capability.

Doomsday prophecies usually don't, no. They're usually prone to Texas Sharpshooter arguments as well.

Buffs/nerfs are sort of a misnomer anyway. The foundation provided those buffs/nerfs by pure chance and relative association of legacy numbers, which were awful to begin with. So yeah, some suits got buffed more than others but it was almost entirely because of the way the foundation pulled everything together compared to the chaos that was used prior.

Commandos getting such a substantial buff, for instance, due to whatever the hell the old thinking was for Commandos having upwards of 7/8 second delays with 18hp/s regen which made zero sense. Compared to the Scouts, of which the Caldari already had the highest regen, yes, that would look like a massive buff but it is entirely relative because of those legacy numbers being so hair-brained.

I sincerely hope personal incredulity isn't being used as an argument now..? Shield Threshold is a big factor, especially with shield threshold numbers as high as 12.

A shield threshold that high means that a Standard SMG at 35m can't break your recharge. A Standard ACR at 70m (it's effective range is 79m, btw) can't break your recharge either. A shield threshold that high means that you'll be able to shrug off most projectile weaponry while still within the optimal range of a Rail Rifle, provided you're using one. That is an enormous benefit because it essentially means the enemy can't defend themselves, no while you're pumping upwards of 70hp/s recharge.

Shield threshold is not something that should be so easily dismissed. Especially considering Step Two may, if it is even possible, have some shield modules reflecting increased thresholds.

-text walll-

I get why it was done, and it is a good reason. I was just talking about about the effects of the changes.

Just adding a bit spice to my post. Only reasoning is being used as an argument. Reasoning and personal opinion.

This threshold may be a little relevant on a Caldari assault or logi, I suppose, who may have high regen and decent shield hp. In the very rare situations that someone is firing at you at a fair bit beyond their optimal range, with a low damage per shot weapon.

The highest threshold is 11 by the way. Even a standard SMG needs it's efficiency down to about 61% to bring it's damage to shields below 11.

Exactly how often, in a scout suit, do you get hit by a weapon doing the equivalent or less damage per shot to a 61% eff standard SMG, in a situation where it is significantly beneficial to have your shield regen uninterrupted? I'm not even sure this has ever happened to me in three years of playing this game.

Thanks for trying to explain it. I still think it's a pointless addition though, especially for scouts.

Sorry for the text wall, may have got a little carried away. Just trying to explain my feelings about the decloak delay.

Apparently white tags carry over to alts.


Guess who will abuse that **** next year?

Let's wait until after the hotfix drops, yeah? And if the shield threshold is 11, my bad, numbers must have changed since I last looked xD

Don't listen to him, he's a liar.

You're all nerds.

you'r all nrds

I hope emperor palpatine does terrible things to your buttholes.

Oooohhh I sense a star wars nerd with the force

I hope emperor palpatine does terrible things to your buttholes.