Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 800 900 1000 1100 1200 1300 1400 1500 1600 1700 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 178 post(s) |
One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 23:29:00 -
[46981] - Quote
@ Adipem
I agree on BP for the most part and the HP issues.
Don't know about swarms. If MDs do some good damage, they may be sufficient for things like LAVs. ADS have been UP awhile now, and Swarms were already crap against HAV.
I persnally question whether these partial measures only complicate future V/AV balance, but whatever.
I do think they are gradually whittling away some of the suit balance they have created. I can't see myself logging in to play this hotfix. All I see is a more squishy Minja that will shine like a beacon and will go down in a fraction of a second to even more weaponry now.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
|
Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 23:38:00 -
[46982] - Quote
Fristname Family name wrote:Radiant Pancake3 wrote:... Was just about to break 4k wp for the first time as a scout then I get fatal errored... I love you too dust... NUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH PANCAKE!!! xxo <3 *Hugs you tight and strokes your back whispering* "Everything will get better hun" even tho we both know eventually they may but soon it may all be over for the both of us. unrelated I THE DARK FLAME MASTER (no one picked up the reference so ill change it) THE MAGIC DEVIL GIRL HAS RETURNED!!!! lol nah ill think of a name today.... Chuunibiyo or something like that. Boring show.
Also, haha ever since the discussion of FOXXY, this thread has gotten much more lovely and interesting. Keep it coming, guys.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
|
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 23:49:00 -
[46983] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:@ Adipem
I agree on BP for the most part and the HP issues.
Don't know about swarms. If MDs do some good damage, they may be sufficient for things like LAVs. ADS have been UP awhile now, and Swarms were already crap against HAV.
I persnally question whether these partial measures only complicate future V/AV balance, but whatever.
I do think they are gradually whittling away some of the suit balance they have created. I can't see myself logging in to play this hotfix. All I see is a more squishy Minja that will shine like a beacon and will go down in a fraction of a second to even more weaponry now. There are definitely going to be some things worth checking out for Scouts. The ScP, MagSec and Breach Shotgun all come to mind. But overall, I agree with you; I'm also expecting a drop in Scout performance. Sadface. Still excited about the update though, even if it means playing other suits for awhile.
Good news is that the worse the Scout performs in FoxFour, the better our position will be when it comes time to negotiate EWAR improvements. And by "negotiate" I mean fight tooth-and-nail for a fair shake.
TL;DR: Not bad long-term for Scouts to stink short-term. FoxFour will be interesting anyway. |
VAHZZ
RabbitGang
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 23:56:00 -
[46984] - Quote
VAHZZ wrote:Even with the new Gal Assault bonus, i still see a small influx of GalRR happening. Someone tell me, all rail weaponry are getting range buffs, right? I am unsure and am too lazy to find the dev post. If that is true, i will be happy about my baby being useful again. I may even spec Cal stuff. Quoting for still wanting it to be answered
Co-Founder of RabbitGang
"VAHZZ is Forum Jesus" - GJR
OG Scout Sniper.
|
Fristname Family name
Opus Arcana
658
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 00:01:00 -
[46985] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Fristname Family name wrote:Radiant Pancake3 wrote:... Was just about to break 4k wp for the first time as a scout then I get fatal errored... I love you too dust... NUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH PANCAKE!!! xxo <3 *Hugs you tight and strokes your back whispering* "Everything will get better hun" even tho we both know eventually they may but soon it may all be over for the both of us. unrelated I THE DARK FLAME MASTER (no one picked up the reference so ill change it) THE MAGIC DEVIL GIRL HAS RETURNED!!!! lol nah ill think of a name today.... Chuunibiyo or something like that. Boring show. Also, haha ever since the discussion of FOXXY, this thread has gotten much more lovely and interesting. Keep it coming, guys. not gionna drop the name cause ill have to do things to get it but yeah, it was good tho in my opinion.
BUILD MORE FARMS!
|
Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 00:02:00 -
[46986] - Quote
VAHZZ wrote:VAHZZ wrote:Even with the new Gal Assault bonus, i still see a small influx of GalRR happening. Someone tell me, all rail weaponry are getting range buffs, right? I am unsure and am too lazy to find the dev post. If that is true, i will be happy about my baby being useful again. I may even spec Cal stuff. Quoting for still wanting it to be answered Why?
Caldari Assaults have the kick bonus to it as well as reload. I see no reason to have that kind of combination apart from switching tank choice.
Hell, shields are being buffed...
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
|
Fristname Family name
Opus Arcana
658
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 00:03:00 -
[46987] - Quote
VAHZZ wrote:VAHZZ wrote:Even with the new Gal Assault bonus, i still see a small influx of GalRR happening. Someone tell me, all rail weaponry are getting range buffs, right? I am unsure and am too lazy to find the dev post. If that is true, i will be happy about my baby being useful again. I may even spec Cal stuff. Quoting for still wanting it to be answered maybe....
BUILD MORE FARMS!
|
VAHZZ
RabbitGang
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 00:04:00 -
[46988] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:VAHZZ wrote:VAHZZ wrote:Even with the new Gal Assault bonus, i still see a small influx of GalRR happening. Someone tell me, all rail weaponry are getting range buffs, right? I am unsure and am too lazy to find the dev post. If that is true, i will be happy about my baby being useful again. I may even spec Cal stuff. Quoting for still wanting it to be answered Why? Caldari Assaults have the kick bonus to it as well as reload. I see no reason to have that kind of combination apart from switching tank choice. Hell, shields are being buffed... "Someone tell me, are all rail weaponry getting range buffs?"
And I said SMALL influx. There are still some people that will use GalRR, because they can. Not saying it is a good decision.
Co-Founder of RabbitGang
"VAHZZ is Forum Jesus" - GJR
OG Scout Sniper.
|
One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 00:10:00 -
[46989] - Quote
I think I would feel better if some of the changes that created the imbalance were fixing really broken things like they did with a lot of the Medium Frame changes.
Most of those were really needed, and would have reduced our numbers anyways. Some felt tacked on and unnecessary.
I can understand swarm changes with regards to DS, but can't understand why HAV issues were ignored (passive hardeners), or why this was the best point to give Assaults some nifty bonuses. I like that they are getting more of an identity now, but when it comes at a point in which they were already somewhat overperforming, adding some more places for them to overperform just tips things in the wrong direction at the wrong time.
I really don't want to play other roles. I don't find them fun. I also resent feeling like I can only be effective in very fringe roles at best otherwise.
Knifing and hacking used to be a rush with, at least at my skill level, an appropriate amount of risk and reward. Now the risks are greater, with little and sometimes even no reward. If I am forced to play an Assault like game, I may as well do it elsewhere where it is actually more fun.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
|
Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 00:11:00 -
[46990] - Quote
VAHZZ wrote:Joel II X wrote:VAHZZ wrote:VAHZZ wrote:Even with the new Gal Assault bonus, i still see a small influx of GalRR happening. Someone tell me, all rail weaponry are getting range buffs, right? I am unsure and am too lazy to find the dev post. If that is true, i will be happy about my baby being useful again. I may even spec Cal stuff. Quoting for still wanting it to be answered Why? Caldari Assaults have the kick bonus to it as well as reload. I see no reason to have that kind of combination apart from switching tank choice. Hell, shields are being buffed... "Someone tell me, are all rail weaponry getting range buffs?" And I said SMALL influx. There are still some people that will use GalRR, because they can. Not saying it is a good decision. Fair enough.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
|
|
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 02:47:00 -
[46991] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote: I wouldn't get carried away with saying hp mods are getting buffed. OK, maybe they are a little, but it's not all that much. The commando slot count is not going to disproportionately hinder them like you say. If this is an increase in TTK, it is only minor. I agree that all the "CPM agree TTK needs to be longer" talk is silly and short sighted.
Aeon Amadi wrote:Damage Bonus [warbarge] was initially supposed to be a choice thing. You either went with 5% extra HP or 5% damage but for whatever reason the HP thing just couldn't work. Rather than removing content, CCP opted to keep it and thusly it made it onto the Warbarge.
It is a blanket bonus that does affect TTK, absolutely, but I'm sort of banking that progressive shield changes bringing shield capability up to a comparable level as armor will bring us back to that butter-zone. It'll just take a while.
|
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 04:14:00 -
[46992] - Quote
Off topic. Fun video in here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2968713#post2968713
|
One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 04:36:00 -
[46993] - Quote
I agree there is a point at which TTK increases to a degree that even perfect scout EWAR cannot overcome.
And really, the time of HP stacked scouts (the old 1000hp shotgunners) is dead and gone.
Assaults have been buffed significantly enough that we can't outslay them.
That is a good thing.
Unless that becomes the only viable play style, which we seem to be continually working towards.
About the only way I can see TTK not being a problem would be if they reduced damage across the board minus high alpa weapons. Then, maybe, if EWAR and mobility have been nerfed to uselessness, we can find our role. Kill quickly, die quickly.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
|
VAHZZ
RabbitGang 13 COILS
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 05:08:00 -
[46994] - Quote
Arrrrrrrrr mateys!
Co-Founder of RabbitGang
"VAHZZ is Forum Jesus" - GJR
OG Scout Sniper.
|
J0LLY R0G3R
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 05:25:00 -
[46995] - Quote
Want to increase ttk? Don't want hp mods to be the way how?
Reduce Aim Assist. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 08:27:00 -
[46996] - Quote
There are ways to increase TTK in a more balanced way than buffing hp mods. In the past they nerfed rifles whilst keeping alpha weapons constant, for example.
I just don't think it should be messed with anymore. Just the other day I was helping a new player make a fit. He was complaining about how long it took to kill people. I was trying to explain that it's a good feature of the game. Makes your fitting choices relevant. Told him he needs to retreat if he's in a bad situation, which you couldn't do with shorter TTK.
This is just an anequdote, and there are loads of complex pros and cons to low or high TTK. I just think we are in a nice spot. There's no clear reason to move either way. |
Matticus Monk
Nos Nothi
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 10:29:00 -
[46997] - Quote
I really think Adpiem has some valid concerns on overall balance. With the slot discrepancy adding to the higher innate HP of medium frame suits it seems like CCP may be balancing around the medium builds when tuning HP mods and improving TTK for racial weapon combinations. This leaves low-HP/low slot count suits more and more vulnerable. Whenever HP is tuned up via modules or innate stats or when damage increased (via racial synergy) for medium frames then low HP/slot count suits feel the effects much more acutely - and yet we sit through this hotfix as-is to observe the results.
I'm not claiming that scouts should be just as effective as killing as medium frames - I don't think they should, they should remain "hard mode" and need to win using superior tactics and trickery.
PIRATE LIFE YO-HO!!!!
But, I'm nervous about this update and have a feeling it's going to sway things in the wrong direction - the direction of scout marginalization; which will REALLY kick in then if HP modules are tuned up later. I feel like TTK / HP balance ATM requires the right amount of scout trickery to survive and win - at least for Gallente scout, not sure on other frames.
I can monitor my own performance fix to fix relatively well as much of my style is 'constant'. I do what I enjoy, and how I'd scout in 'real life' to have fun - so I don't adapt across frames as much as others, instead adapt my tactics given my chosen suit/role/race.
My play style and load outs change slightly but always are 95% the same philosophy: Standard spook builds balanced around EWAR, biotics & an HP mod or two along with medium range harder-hitting weaponry. I don't think my builds have changed much since Chrome in actuality. Always got precision, used to always have a range amp, mostly a red jar, and a ferror or shield mod along w/ breach AR or SCP primary.
I'm anticipating an overall KDR and WP/death or WP/match decrease this net hotfix as medium frames become more deadly and my tools are largely unchanged - perhaps I may switch my breach AR back to my beloved SCP, but I don't think this will be an upgrade; likely only a 'trade'.
(Longer than expected, sorry gents.)
TL:DR - no poetry, ranting or roleplay. Scouts will need to work harder to stay viable next hot-fix, with high probability of future HF's pushing the balance too far away from scout viability. |
Matticus Monk
Nos Nothi
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 10:46:00 -
[46998] - Quote
*phone rings in bar*
"Got it!" (Monk picks up phone, putting freshly-engraved KLO down on bar.)
"Uh-huh.... Yeah. Haha, he did what!?? Haha - Okay - what a dumbass. Yeah, that sucks for him.... OK - cool, see you when you get back."
"That was Jace, but it sounded like Mollerz and Bay were back there laughing. Some newbro they were training got deep in the **** when he made a mistake offshore on a solo op. Guess he wanted to relay the message for help - newbro said:"
"Send laywers, guns and money."
*picks up standard "light's out" mix of red-jar, green-jar and antifreeze*
"So, what's the plan?" (someone yells from a table)
"My plan is to drink this and go take a nap, and see if newbro is smart enough to figure out his own problems."
|
noob cavman
Nos Nothi
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 11:35:00 -
[46999] - Quote
My tac ar.... Your a abomination again So tac ar and assault smg or magsec. Or two carth pistols are going to be my fits. Oh and my squid will now be easier to use!
The only complaint I have is gal logi has not been toned down. Many a scouting woe would be removed if I didn't need two damps on my minja.
The most abusive northerner.
currently reading clockwork vampires by andy remic. A terra bad/awesome author
|
Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 11:57:00 -
[47000] - Quote
IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Ares 514 wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Well, not sure i love a few things in that hotfix.
Specifically, I want my Min Commando SP back and put into Cal Commando. Although i wonder how good swarms will be with AV with that range nerf. I anticipate ADS's becoming nasty again potentially. I also noticed scouts got hit a bit and logi's/assualts got some buffs on shields.
I'm mostly worried about those advanced locus grenades. I bet we'll see a lot more grenade spam with the amount nanohives can give you these days.
Edit: ROF bonus on gal assault... shudders... i worry. Bro, you got a buff so that your mass drivers are 100% efficient against vehicles. I fail to see how you wouldn't like that. Seriously? I skilled into min commando for ONE thing, swarm AV, not for freaking mass drivers! I doubt MD's will be very useful as AV in all truth even if I wanted to run MD's, which I don't. There goes what? 3million SP down the drain. Adapt or die, it's the way of dust. You've misunderstood the meaning of that. I expect you think we should HTFU too. Making changes that affect investment should either not happen, or when it does, fair compensation be made. It makes a mockery of choices mattering, and totally screws over those with low SP (read: non-vets and casuals). If they hadn't screwed up so many compensations over time, they would still be doing it I suspect. Why the hell wouldn't they? Nobody would be getting a freebie, people are only getting annoyed or looking silly. Just because it's only happened once or twice, and never since, doesn't mean it's not BS. So don't quote that **** like it isn't. It's a non-argument.
Fair compensation is always subjective but the attempt was made with the Breach Mass Driver doing full damage against vehicles. To put into perspective what kind of damage you're looking at, a Minmatar Commando with maxxed skills does about 701.32 armor damage per round. If you hit the HAV's weak point, you're doing 1051.98 damage per round. Given that you actually -can- aim at weak points instead of having to fiddle with lock times, flight times, terrain, etc... landing all six rounds will come out to a total of 4207.92 to 6,311.88 damage.
Versus all volleys from a Wiyrkomi Swarm which would be 5,683.44.
This also includes the fact that you can use a Breach MD against infantry as well, which is a sizable benefit over the Swarm Launcher which does not have that capability.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
|
|
Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 12:04:00 -
[47001] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Not really sure what you're trying to get at with shields, there...
An arms race toward parity between high armor and high shield units stands to further disadvantage low armor and low shield units. All in all, I feel like assault and logi's got buffs and scouts got nerfed some again. This is part of the reason why I'm anticipating a decline in Scout & Commando performance/usage. The more slots a unit has available to dedicate to ever-improving HP modules, the better that unit will perform relative to other units. Considering their low slot count, Commando performance has no where to go but down. "HP Creep" comes in waves. CPM2 would oppose (for obvious reasons) reducing Assault / Logi slot count to counteract a widening of the performance gap between MedFrames and other frames. Instead, they'll propose buffing Commando base HP and/or regen to counteract the class's usage/performance decline. If high-hitpoint MedFrames and Commandos begin to win toe-to-toe fights with HMG Heavies, the suggested remedy will without question be a buff to the HMG. Bad news for Scouts. Scouts will be the biggest losers in all of this. I think it more likely than not that CPM2 will offer excuses for a decline in Scout usage and kill/spawn efficiency rather than make any genuine attempt to remedy it. "Scouts aren't supposed to be good at killing things". "Scout usage is supposed to be low." "Scouts are doing it wrong." "Scouts have instakill Nova Knives." "Spin-and-win is not real." "Scouts are whiny." All of these should sound familiar. Whether or not slumping Scout performance is made a priority will be up to Rattati and Rattati alone. The further Scouts fall behind, the harder it'll be to fix them without over-fixing them. Enter [the possibility of] Scoutocolypse 2.0.
There's a great deal of concern that the GalAssault's RoF bonus to AR's will quickly throw it over the HMG in terms of viability and competitiveness. It's something we're going to be watching like a hawk because, personally, I'd really rather -not- buff the HMG's DPS (though range might be a consideration) and would sooner look at nerfing the GalAssault/AR back a bit if it becomes a problem.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
|
Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 12:06:00 -
[47002] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:@Adipem, it has been a long time belief of mine that HP mods should be hit with a hefty nerf hammer, and raw suit HP numbers upped in compensation.
It displeases me that we increase our HP by 2x-3x and more with these modules. They should give an edge, not be a required module type that everyone and their mother must fit to be competitive.
More utility modules make the battlefield far more interesting than moar HP.
Interesting. Noted.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
|
Dreis ShadowWeaver
Abstract Requiem
7
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 12:20:00 -
[47003] - Quote
Notifications wrote:Aeon Amadi replied to your forum post The Barbershop
'Oh no'
*reads Aeon's posts*
What happened to the old Aeon?
Creator of the Nova Knifers United channel
Dreis' Minja Blog
CEO of Abstract Requiem
|
Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 12:25:00 -
[47004] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Not really sure what you're trying to get at with shields, there...
An arms race toward parity between high armor and high shield units stands to further disadvantage low armor and low shield units. All in all, I feel like assault and logi's got buffs and scouts got nerfed some again. How so? Most of the shield buffs I can see to suits are innate. The assaults and logis got some big buffs to shield regen/delay overall, scouts remained either the same or got worse stats. The locus grenades are bad for everyone but worse for scouts who are going to be insta killed by them 99% of the time their within the blast after the changes. Plus you add in the reduced TTK with the weapon buffs and ROF bonus and a scout will be shredded in CQC by those gal's. I also wonder if that magsec is going to be pretty damn vicious but have no personal use to get a sense of where it's at and what the change might do.
Not sure where "scouts remained the same or got worse stats" is coming from. Minmatar Scout got a hefty buff.
Caldari Scout got a buff: (+5 shield threshold, -1 depleted delay) Minmatar Scout got a buff: (+5 recharge rate, -0.5 shield delay, -1s depleted delay, +4 shield threshold) Gallente Scout got both: (+1 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers), -1 depleted delay, +3 shield threshold) Amarr Scout got both: (+1.5 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers), +2 shield threshold)
Only one I'm really worried about is the Amarr Scout, honestly. Thing is a watered down Cal Scout with no real purpose or role. Something that I'm adding to my project list.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
|
Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL RUST415
644
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 12:34:00 -
[47005] - Quote
Plus you add in the reduced TTK with the weapon buffs and ROF bonus and a scout will be shredded in CQC by those gal's. I also wonder if that magsec is going to be pretty damn vicious but have no personal use to get a sense of where it's at and what the change might do.[/quote]
Not sure where "scouts remained the same or got worse stats" is coming from. Minmatar Scout got a hefty buff.
Caldari Scout got a buff: (+5 shield threshold, -1 depleted delay) Minmatar Scout got a buff: (+5 recharge rate, -0.5 shield delay, -1s depleted delay, +4 shield threshold) Gallente Scout got both: (+1 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers), -1 depleted delay, +3 shield threshold) Amarr Scout got both: (+1.5 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers), +2 shield threshold)
Only one I'm really worried about is the Amarr Scout, honestly. Thing is a watered down Cal Scout with no real purpose or role. Something that I'm adding to my project list. [/quote]
Needs a bonus to seeing light dropsuits its purpose scout killer |
Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 12:58:00 -
[47006] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Ares 514 wrote: The locus grenades are bad for everyone but worse for scouts who are going to be insta killed by them 99% of the time their within the blast after the changes.
Agreed. I can see scouts dying left and right to grenades. Other suits have a reasonable chance of tanking them, but scouts do not and the grenade spam is going to be pretty major. quote] Yeah... Really would have preferred it if the damage would have gotten brought down to 500-550, honestly... Thing about Locus Grenades being a specialist thing is that specialist items generally aren't used by everyone and their mother. If they were going to ever be considered a primary weapon with that sort of alpha capability, it needed to be on a dedicated 'Grenadier' role or something. Who knows maybe that'll turn into the Minmatar Assault's thing one day. If this hotfix will do anything it'll add weight that Core Locus Grenades' damage needed to be brought down. 600HP worth of damage with a headshot modifier (yes, they do have them) over 7m range is a tad ridiculous when you compare that to every other explosive in the game. Varoth Drac wrote:Shield Changes - I completely agree (though I don't think it's much to do with TTK). I'm glad they listened to feedback regarding the regen and delay. What I'm a bit upset about are the depleted delay stats. I provided lots of ideas and very in depth feedback regarding the CPM shield proposal, which left out consideration of depleted delays. In that thread Breakin' Stuff was very dismissive of me and quite rude. Considering the effort I'd put into my feedback I felt kind of pissed off about it. Apparently he'd been given the task of working on depleted delays, though I'm sure other CPM members worked on it too. But we never got a chance to give feedback on their proposal. I kind of pre-empted this a bit by explaining how I felt about it when the ideas were hinted at, but there was never a proper feedback thread about it. Now we've got a strange situation where depleted delays are, counter-intuitively, shorter than non-depleted, and shorter the heavier the suit. I've been talking to some guys in game today, and nobody seems to get why. It's nice for sentinels, who lost out on their comparatively good rege stats compared to mediums, but why do scouts now have the worst depleted delays? OK, it's nice to have a neat pattern, and I guess scouts can be brought back to balance with other changes, like cloaks, but how is massively buffing medium suit depleted delays a good thing? Kind of nice for shield tankers I suppose, not that they had particularly long delays before, and not that they are (or should be) going into armour very often, but isn't this a large buff to dual tanking and armour tanking? An armour tanker is going to have their shields depleted very often, so is going to reap the benefit of this a lot of the time. It's not a major deal, it just seems kind of silly, kind of poor for balance, and kind of irritating that the community were barely consulted. It seems too late to do anything about it now. All anyone's interested in is the endless AV vs V debate (which I caved into commenting on here ). quote] Depleted Delays were a hard thing to balance. Breakin spear-headed it, absolutely, as I was busy with the overall regen changes. But it wasn't without the rest of the CPM looking over the numbers and considerations and providing feedback in kind. We're not isolationist except in speciality areas (mine is Lore, Kevall's is NPE, etc) By the time Depleted Delays are considered, a dedicated shield tanker is likely dead anyway. It doesn't make much sense that depleted delays should be -longer- than normal shield delays because that just adds unnecessary time that a shield tanker is going to have to wait before seeing any gains on their primary defense method. So the thinking was that: "As EHP goes up, Regen goes down. As Regen goes down, Delay must also go down to maintain a healthy recovery rate." Sentinels are primary to this thinking (and thus received lower regen times) but it takes them much much longer to recover. With low fitting variability due to slot counts, this only further contributes to that philosophy. As far as dual tanking, the CPM is pretty much unanimous in that other modules need to be brought up in viability as a means of encouraging primary tanking. Something you're seeing the beginning stages of with the biotics over-haul. [quote=Arkena Wyrnspire][quote=Varoth Drac] I agree (though I think "ridiculously" is maybe going a bit far). Rattati has even mentioned a desire to buff it not that long ago. I hope he still feels this way, and it happens in the not too distant future. TBF as an experienced player I can easily spot them so I'm likely to be more disparaging of their capabilities, but I really don't think they're much good at all.
Might see about the possibility of reversing the cloak spectrum (blue tint for standing still, near perfect invisibility for running). Not sure yet.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
|
Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 13:15:00 -
[47007] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote: I wouldn't get carried away with saying hp mods are getting buffed. OK, maybe they are a little, but it's not all that much. The commando slot count is not going to disproportionately hinder them like you say. If this is an increase in TTK, it is only minor. I agree that all the "CPM agree TTK needs to be longer" talk is silly and short sighted. But it's not as simple has "long TTK is good for high hp, short for low hp". It's all about a balance. A balance that we are at quite nicely. I wouldn't want it to be toppled either way. TTK is a complex issue, and I'd feel safer if people stayed out of it and left it alone. This update won't change it much in this regard.
But yes, somehow we've got an update that buffs everyone except for the Caldari Sentinel and scouts (unless you count the kincat PG reduction, which I guess is nice, for assaults as well though).
I don't discount the purple just yet. It can be saved!
Also, there would possibly be more room in the balance for the maybe minor-scout-buff side effect of my EWAR balancing thoughts. Which I may make a topic about in Feedback, since I think it was mentioned that EWAR was an upcoming area of consideration.
Don't forget about shield threshold, which the Caldari saw a sizable buff in.
Varoth Drac wrote: I think it's best not to overcomplicate things.
I'm not saying you are wrong. Just that claiming that scout - medium imbalance is going to get so bad, that down the road scouts are going to get massively overbuffed, and everyone will rue the day, is probably not going to win you any favours from the CPM, or many others.
Doomsday prophecies usually don't, no. They're usually prone to Texas Sharpshooter arguments as well.
Varoth Drac wrote: I don't know. But the longer you make a chain of reasoning the easier it is for people to pick holes.
You may not win over all the CPM, but some people, be it CPM, players, or devs, are capable of reasonable discussion and understanding. Best to make your ideas and reasoning as clear to them as possible. Even as others try to shut you down.
Pretty much this.
Varoth Drac wrote:There are ways to increase TTK in a more balanced way than buffing hp mods. In the past they nerfed rifles whilst keeping alpha weapons constant, for example.
I just don't think it should be messed with anymore. Just the other day I was helping a new player make a fit. He was complaining about how long it took to kill people. I was trying to explain that it's a good feature of the game. Makes your fitting choices relevant. Told him he needs to retreat if he's in a bad situation, which you couldn't do with shorter TTK.
This is just an anequdote, and there are loads of complex pros and cons to low or high TTK. I just think we are in a nice spot. There's no clear reason to move either way.
You say that, but blanket damage buffs (I'm looking at you, Warbarge Upgrades) can throw a pipewrench in the TTK really freaggin quickly. This isn't even touching things like the ASCR damage buff which quickly propelled it beyond viability straight into "Hey, maybe we need to bring this back down".
Legacy sins are the CPM2's problems, it seems.
Luther Mandrix wrote:
Needs a bonus to seeing light dropsuits its purpose scout killer
has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
|
Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
13
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 13:46:00 -
[47008] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:Notifications wrote:Aeon Amadi replied to your forum post The Barbershop 'Oh no' *reads Aeon's posts* What happened to the old Aeon?
"He's more man than machine now"
Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
|
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 13:50:00 -
[47009] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: Not sure where "scouts remained the same or got worse stats" is coming from. Minmatar Scout got a hefty buff.
Caldari Scout got a buff: (+5 shield threshold, -1 depleted delay) Minmatar Scout got a buff: (+5 recharge rate, -0.5 shield delay, -1s depleted delay, +4 shield threshold) Gallente Scout got both: (+1 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers), -1 depleted delay, +3 shield threshold) Amarr Scout got both: (+1.5 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers), +2 shield threshold)
Only one I'm really worried about is the Amarr Scout, honestly. Thing is a watered down Cal Scout with no real purpose or role. Something that I'm adding to my project list.
Please don't use the shield threshold as a way to show scouts got buffed. I knew they would be a massive red herring.
I don't know if I've just completely misunderstood shield threshold, but as far as I can tell they make almost no difference to the game at all.
So let's review the list of changes.
Caldari Scout got a minor buff: ( -1 depleted delay) Minmatar Scout got a minor buff: (+5 recharge rate, -0.5 shield delay, -1s depleted delay,) Gallente Scout got both: (+1 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers), -1 depleted delay,) Though as an armour suit, depleted delay is more relevant. Amarr Scout got a minor nerf: (+1.5 shield delay (per feedback on armor tankers),
Compared to large buffs to the shields on other suits (bar the Cal sentinel).
Yes the statement "scouts remained the same or got worse stats" is not technically true. The sentiment is basically correct though. Scouts remain roughly where they are now, compared with large buffs to other suits.
I'm not trying to say mediums and commandos are going to be massively OP just due to these shield regen changes. But please don't say the shield thresholds contribute in a meaningful way to a scout buff.
I understand why you would, because buffinh threshold technically is a buff. I just think it is insignificant. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 13:58:00 -
[47010] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: Don't forget about shield threshold, which the Caldari saw a sizable buff in.
I entirely discount the shield thresholds. If you can explain why I shouldn't that would be great, because I don't think I get it at the moment.
Either that, or everyone's gone, "Oo, shield threshold, that sounds great!" without actually thinking through what it means in game. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 800 900 1000 1100 1200 1300 1400 1500 1600 1700 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |