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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 189 post(s) |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
1921
   |
Posted - 2013.03.15 19:23:00 -
[631] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:Can I interject at this point and mention that this thread has gone on far too long without degenerating into mindless drivel and the same tired stereotypes. If we aren't careful the Dust forum's immune system will soon begin to reject it. 
You may, but I will ignore you. :P |
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Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
359
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:23:00 -
[632] - Quote
My main question is on ISK payout
The wiki say the biomass value of damaged clones is 50K and with a minimum 100 clone loss regardless of true clone loss means 5 Million ISK payout to winning team? Is that number correct (will fitting cost of the clones lost also be factored in or will that be apart of the salvage portion?)
Additionally
So this is the layout im trying to understand.
Currently its skirmish 2.0 correct?
Also when you face a district the attackers have x clones to use and the defenders have a max of 300-450 or less depending on how many clones are set on the district correct?
So the battle hud would show
Health from Attacker MCC and Defender MCC. The attackers would have x clones and Defenders would have Y clone(= to the number on district left up to a max of 450)
So in theory if a defender is foolish enough keep respawning we could in theory flip the district in one battle by cloning out all 450 clones before we destroy the MCC correct?
granted this would be very foolish of the defenders to allow for this.
However i think skirmish 1.0 would be perfect for allowing single attack flips while giving a strategic defense to defenders by having multiple null cannons console that have to be deactivated by attackers.
I think the win conditions could be destroy MCC/clone enemy for defenders or get cloned for attackers but make it so there is a timer limit on the match 60mins in which if the defender hasnt repelled the invasion it result in a victory for the attackers (however then it may be worth considering uping the numbers for defenders because its not hard to maintain a corp KDR of >4.5 and wipe out the clones before MCC gets wiped out.
It would obviously necessitate tweaks but it allows for single district flips but require a lot more fortification for the defense so that attrition can occur due player skill a very important aspect of flipping districts in a single attack. While corps with large player bases will still be able to control large district territories and reenforce.(assuming you allow for reenforcements despite an attack condition to protect them)
Basically large player corp can funnel a ton of clones and try to win the fight by attrition by maintaining a large clone count during real time while a small skilled corp can commit forces and try to flip a district through player skill and control. But this scenario only works in skirmish 1.0 where there isnt a constant attack on the attacker MCC by the defender MCC.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
1921
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:24:00 -
[633] - Quote
YourDeadAgain76 wrote: When FW/PC takes affect will we be given a corporation warehouse for all the equipment we cant use but others can for a price, Or will we be able to trade with other merc's.?
No, but it is on our roadmap and something we want to get done. Before that though I think we need player trading of items and such. Maybe not a full market, but the ability to transfer assets between characters. If we get both at the same time great. |
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trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
215
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:25:00 -
[634] - Quote
What I want to understand is this:
(another example so people see my concern)
Option A: Corp of 200 members (random number) starts off by getting 1 district. They expand from there on normally.
Option B: Same corp makes 4 alt corps with 5 squad leaders each. These alt corps do the excact same thing as the mother corp would, and they bring mercenaries into fight from mother corp. The 200 member corp reaches its peak districts 5 times faster, creating clones 5 times faster, being able to attack 5 times faster etc.
The only limit here is merc number in both cases, BUT as you have 5 corps you reach the limit divided to those corps 5 times faster. You stomp all competition, because you are able to attack with 5 corps bringing ringers while the single corp would just do its thing slowly.
The thing is, the main corp can still do its thing normally. They just bring ringers from the alt corps, since the player base is the same. So the same 200 players get 5 times more stuff done by making 5 corps so they can utilize their mercs fully from the start.
Now the 200 player corp would die of boredom trying to get fights for all the members, with clone amount being the cap. With 5 corps, you have 5 times the clones to get fights with for a good long while.
It feels intuitively very broken. I don't think the CCP posters have fully gotten an idea of how important it is to start off with alt corps and cross ringer fighting, if not for anything else than getting more fights. The base corp still builds at its pace, while the bonus corps are extra. And they can be eventually merged by giving free wins to base corp. |
Mr Gloo Gloo
What The French
CRONOS.
35
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:32:00 -
[635] - Quote
Just to be clear.
I didn't mean to troll the dev blog and planetary conquest system, and didn't want to find a way to exploit it for me and my corp especially.
If I play DUST today, it's for what is coming ;) !!!
Just want to be sure that some corp don't fin a way to not just play the game.
All I want is a fair game, and I'm still not 100% convince. If every defenses are win, we can imagine a lots of things... And the economic/clone production system. In my 1st scenario, a theory 840 clones for 1 corp (84M ISK), the 108M to form childs corp will be reimburse in 2 days....
Well, it's just theory.... |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
268
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:35:00 -
[636] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:What I want to understand is this:
(another example so people see my concern)
Option A: Corp of 200 members (random number) starts off by getting 1 district. They expand from there on normally.
Option B: Same corp makes 4 alt corps with 5 squad leaders each. These alt corps do the excact same thing as the mother corp would, and they bring mercenaries into fight from mother corp. The 200 member corp reaches its peak districts 5 times faster, creating clones 5 times faster, being able to attack 5 times faster etc.
The only limit here is merc number in both cases, BUT as you have 5 corps you reach the limit divided to those corps 5 times faster. You stomp all competition, because you are able to attack with 5 corps bringing ringers while the single corp would just do its thing slowly.
The thing is, the main corp can still do its thing normally. They just bring ringers from the alt corps, since the player base is the same. So the same 200 players get 5 times more stuff done by making 5 corps so they can utilize their mercs fully from the start.
Now the 200 player corp would die of boredom trying to get fights for all the members, with clone amount being the cap. With 5 corps, you have 5 times the clones to get fights with for a good long while.
It feels intuitively very broken. I don't think the CCP posters have fully gotten an idea of how important it is to start off with alt corps and cross ringer fighting, if not for anything else than getting more fights. The base corp still builds at its pace, while the bonus corps are extra. And they can be eventually merged by giving free wins to base corp.
EDIT: in other words, this effectively bypasses the limit put on purchasing NPC clones by just doing it on alt corps.
How are you still not getting this? Having 5 corps does not give you 5 times the number of clones to use on any attack. You could still only attack with the same number of clones as a single corp. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
1928
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:36:00 -
[637] - Quote
Mr Gloo Gloo wrote:Just to be clear.
I didn't mean to troll the dev blog and planetary conquest system, and didn't want to find a way to exploit it for me and my corp especially.
If I play DUST today, it's for what is coming ;) !!!
Just want to be sure that some corp don't fin a way to not just play the game.
All I want is a fair game, and I'm still not 100% convince. If every defenses are win, we can imagine a lots of things... And the economic/clone production system. In my 1st scenario, a theory 840 clones for 1 corp (84M ISK), the 108M to form childs corp will be reimburse in 2 days....
Well, it's just theory....
O_O Was someone upset about your post? I have not been keeping track of all the posts but your last one was really good. I even spent time responding to it. :P I hope my random sarcasm didn't come off wrong, I love the discussion going on here. |
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trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
215
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:41:00 -
[638] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:trollsroyce wrote:What I want to understand is this:
(another example so people see my concern)
Option A: Corp of 200 members (random number) starts off by getting 1 district. They expand from there on normally.
Option B: Same corp makes 4 alt corps with 5 squad leaders each. These alt corps do the excact same thing as the mother corp would, and they bring mercenaries into fight from mother corp. The 200 member corp reaches its peak districts 5 times faster, creating clones 5 times faster, being able to attack 5 times faster etc.
The only limit here is merc number in both cases, BUT as you have 5 corps you reach the limit divided to those corps 5 times faster. You stomp all competition, because you are able to attack with 5 corps bringing ringers while the single corp would just do its thing slowly.
The thing is, the main corp can still do its thing normally. They just bring ringers from the alt corps, since the player base is the same. So the same 200 players get 5 times more stuff done by making 5 corps so they can utilize their mercs fully from the start.
Now the 200 player corp would die of boredom trying to get fights for all the members, with clone amount being the cap. With 5 corps, you have 5 times the clones to get fights with for a good long while.
It feels intuitively very broken. I don't think the CCP posters have fully gotten an idea of how important it is to start off with alt corps and cross ringer fighting, if not for anything else than getting more fights. The base corp still builds at its pace, while the bonus corps are extra. And they can be eventually merged by giving free wins to base corp.
EDIT: in other words, this effectively bypasses the limit put on purchasing NPC clones by just doing it on alt corps. How are you still not getting this? Having 5 corps does not give you 5 times the number of clones to use on any attack. You could still only attack with the same number of clones as a single corp.
...
it gives you 5 times the clones to hold more planets and attack different locations simultaneously. it makes your empire big 5 times faster. its the only way to utilize a lot of mercs early. |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
112
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:42:00 -
[639] - Quote
Soooooo heres a few questions about sov warfare and other things
1.) So when can defenders reinforce their district? and where/how many times can they reinforce their district? Whats to stop defenders from massing up 300 clones on one district at all times? is it possible for attackers to go through 300 clones in an hour?
1/b.) You've mentioned 1 hour exclusivity, Does this mean the first corp to attack in that time period gets the rights to continue scheduling attacks during that time period? Do we even need to reschedule matches in that window? or will the matches automatically start back to back with each other within that hour? (so like at max having 3 skirmish matches a day?)
2.) Can a corp launch mulitple attacks on every district at once if they want to? or do they need to own a district adjacent to whatever district they want to attack?
3.) NULL only mentioned winning a district by out grinding the other teams clones, ok thats fine but what if the other team just doesn't show up? You cant grind out their clones if nobody is there to die...
3/b.) so you mentioned they can still lose the match, if nobody is brought to the match and their MCC is destroyed does this mean they loose 100 clones? or does it mean they loose all the clones they have on the district? So lets say a corp has 300 clones on a district and they loose their MCC do they just loose 100 of them then?
4.) so that leads up to me asking if theres going to be some other method of taking a district.... like via objectives or something?? Do the defenders have to actaully..... defend an objective? like a massive console that just blows up their mcc if we capture it? or perhaps like the current skirmish?? (i hope not).
5.) also regarding the whole market/selling clones. Is the market regional? does it work like how eve does where you have to pick up the items bought at the station it was sold at? Or will it all be just one massive market? If it is a regional system then how will that work? what type of transport can dust players used? Personally i would like the regional system as it makes the market more complex, but i could understand if thats just not something we want to do with dust.
I read throught the forums and understand that its all mostly NPC for now, but that doesn't mean this doesn't pertain to the future right?
6.) I read something about a clone cost to attacking hostile planets, it being set to 20% and all. Does this mean that if you attack with 100 clones only 20 show up? or 80? If its 20 then that means corps would have to bring in 500 clones just to match the 100 a defender could have. And if they have 300 we would need 1500 over the course of a few days.
6/b.) Wouldn't it make sense if that 20% penalty was negated if corps are attacking a district from an adjacent district? The difference between an orbital invasion and a land invasion is that your clones just have to walk or be driven across a border where as the orbital method just turns your clones into meteorites (justifying the loss of clones upon landing).
I would like to see this because it would discourage a big corp from just launching several attacks on each district of an opposing corp, and encourage a somewhat slower but more efficient land based war.
7.) will there be any sort of trading feature between players? and can a corp sell clones to another corp? |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
215
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:43:00 -
[640] - Quote
and stalling hat empire growth is one key reason why the initial clone cap is in place. multicorp bypasses it. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
1941
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:49:00 -
[641] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:What I want to understand is this:
(another example so people see my concern)
Option A: Corp of 200 members (random number) starts off by getting 1 district. They expand from there on normally.
Option B: Same corp makes 4 alt corps with 5 squad leaders each. These alt corps do the excact same thing as the mother corp would, and they bring mercenaries into fight from mother corp. The 200 member corp reaches its peak districts 5 times faster, creating clones 5 times faster, being able to attack 5 times faster etc.
This again assumes no one is attacking your districts, really it kind of does. With one corporation you have your directors and CEO to do all the logistics and take care of the money. Once you start creating these alt corporations you need to trust them with the ISK, trust them to do the right things in managing the districts, and most importantly to log on EVERYDAY to check if their district is under attack. If the district is under attack those people from that alt corporation have to be on. So for every alt corp you make is more people you have to have logging on.
That being said the idea that 1 corp creating alt corps for the initial seizure of districts is a possibility.
trollsroyce wrote:The only limit here is merc number in both cases, BUT as you have 5 corps you reach the limit divided to those corps 5 times faster. You stomp all competition, because you are able to attack with 5 corps bringing ringers while the single corp would just do its thing slowly.
There are other disadvantages, like the fact that you cannot move clones between your own districts.
trollsroyce wrote:The thing is, the main corp can still do its thing normally. They just bring ringers from the alt corps, since the player base is the same. So the same 200 players get 5 times more stuff done by making 5 corps so they can utilize their mercs fully from the start.
Yes this is true, but especially at the beginning districts will be the least profitable. When they first go out is when the most people will be trying it which means the highest chance of you getting attacked. Once people settle down and start to make decisions about if they want to play this gameplay we will see a slump in the number of people playing it and money making goes up with less fights. So your splitting of corporations is the worst at the beginning as you are most likely to be attacked on all fronts and have increased your logistical needs while decreasing your logistical capacity.
trollsroyce wrote:Now the 200 player corp would die of boredom trying to get fights for all the members, with clone amount being the cap. With 5 corps, you have 5 times the clones to get fights with for a good long while.
This is something we will have to balance as time goes on.
trollsroyce wrote:It feels intuitively very broken. I don't think the CCP posters have fully gotten an idea of how important it is to start off with alt corps and cross ringer fighting, if not for anything else than getting more fights. The base corp still builds at its pace, while the bonus corps are extra. And they can be eventually merged by giving free wins to base corp.
EDIT: in other words, this effectively bypasses the limit put on purchasing NPC clones by just doing it on alt corps.
While I agree that the alt corporations will offer an increase in the number of possible fights, there are so many disadvantages to it I can't see it being a way for corporations to make money. If players want to do it to get fights, great, let them. Why would we want to stop you from fighting? We may want to slow things down a bit (hence the 24 hour timer), but not stop it. The ISK is what we worry about. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
1941
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:51:00 -
[642] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:and stalling hat empire growth is one key reason why the initial clone cap is in place. multicorp bypasses it.
Actually, you are wrong. The key reason for the limit on Genolution purposes is not to stall empire growth, but to prevent an organization that has a strong foundation from attacking all the way across the galaxy. Maybe they can take their members through the squads thing, but the logistical advantages of their existing infrastructure do not apply. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
1941
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:57:00 -
[643] - Quote
I am off for now, shall try and be back later to answer more questions. Keep the awesome discussion going though guys! :D I have been having a blast in this thread. |
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Django Quik
R.I.f.t
269
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:59:00 -
[644] - Quote
CCP Fox Four knocks it out of the park again! Someone get this man a medal (assuming he's not a futuristic robot with super question answering abilities, which I deeply suspect). |
Kain Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1090
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 20:02:00 -
[645] - Quote
My question is if we are going to be limited to one region of low-sec to start is it going to be owned by a particular faction? (Gallente, Minmatar, Amarr, etc.)? That could end up tipping this in favor of folks involved FW for that Empire. |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
359
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:04:00 -
[646] - Quote
Also previously you noted that a corp that owns no districts will sell back remaining clones back to genolution at a cost of 100K ISK.
It seems they are better business men then we thought.
No in seriousness why 100K: thats the sale value of a clone generated from a district. I understand that this may serve as a check on a corp from attacking anywhere they want but they are limited already because they own no districts.
I think if you allow the resale value of clones sold back after a battle can be a bit higher under the condition that the corp doing so has no districts since thats the only condition where a sale would occur following battle as all other conditions would result in a return to district and if the district being returned to has max clones then the district will auto sell which would allow for the 100k sale price.
TL:DR: Why cant unused clones that are sold back be a higher ISK sale price for a corp that owns no districts since its a one off scenario, it also makes hiring/using merc corps more econimically feasible.
Also could you answer the first part of this and if able to comment on the second part please?
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=620517#post620517
Thanks. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
269
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:05:00 -
[647] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:My question is if we are going to be limited to one region of low-sec to start is it going to be owned by a particular faction? (Gallente, Minmatar, Amarr, etc.)? That could end up tipping this in favor of folks involved FW for that Empire.
It was mentioned earlier today that FW and PC do not interact at this stage. |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative
63
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:06:00 -
[648] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:CCP Fox Four knocks it out of the park again! Someone get this man a medal (assuming he's not a futuristic robot with super question answering abilities, which I deeply suspect). CCP FoxFour on the weekends. |
Kain Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1090
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 20:10:00 -
[649] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Kain Spero wrote:My question is if we are going to be limited to one region of low-sec to start is it going to be owned by a particular faction? (Gallente, Minmatar, Amarr, etc.)? That could end up tipping this in favor of folks involved FW for that Empire. It was mentioned earlier today that FW and PC do not interact at this stage.
The issue is if you are in an opposing faction's space their NPC faction forces will still attack you, regardless if you are doing Dust FW at the time. You also can't cloak in opposing faction space, which would give an advantage to FW players that are in the region of their aligned faction. |
Evicer
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:11:00 -
[650] - Quote
Right on fellas...lookin forward to that merc market cue too......
greatness is what you are achieving here gentlemen |
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trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
215
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:13:00 -
[651] - Quote
The first to do it grabs a region and foritfies the bottlenecks with said alt corps. Then expands safely inside the region by giving it over to main corp by selling clones before fight, which is forfeited. If planets are anything like current nullsec with bottleneck, the alt corps allows a delve-style fortress creation within weeks.
Its the only way to make use of a lot of members.
The whole shenanigans is that a big corp will be held back severely by starting in one location with very limited expansion, capped by bringing 16 people in fights with limited clones. it only makes sense to split it into multiples, which means more work but is the only efficient way to start out. With multiple corps, you use multiple times the clones to be able to multiply your offensive fronts and clone production. Using only one starting point, a large corp can be shut down by just shutting down the one starting point from day2.
Logistically, the main corp doesnt change at any point. The main corp grows just as quickly as it would otherwise, if you have numbers to defend and attack. You just dump the numbers into alt corps in same real empire. Which is just odd, why not give big corps the same opportunity without forcing them to split for it?
At least thats what i get from the info we have. It feels potentially devastating.
Long example, no need to quote, just to put the point in numbers.
A: 1 corp
B: 4 corps who just bring mercs from main corp to fights
Flip1 (get clones, get district):
A = 100 clones and district
B = 400 clones and 4 districts
Flip2 (first expansion attack):
A = 200 clones and 2 districts
B = 800 clones and 8 districts
And so forth. Soon you reach the cap of how many fights your mercs can do in a big corp. However, you have now the option of letting the main corp leech from the others if you want, or just to continue growing all of the corps. Remember, the mercs are same - you just artificially have more options by putting more people into logistics. Why can you not do this on one corp, though? It's a bit odd to make the big entities split like this.
Now, if entity C in above example had done the normal thing.
Flip3 (first attack on C):
A attacks C with potentially 200 clones.
B attacks C in 2 places with potentially 800 clones.
Now A and B are just the options for a large corp. The second case is more powerful, and C is completely tied clone wise to defend vs. that. By splitting, B has won the expansion race vs. C, as B can use the 8 fast districts to produce clones for multiple front fight. THE BIG CORP THAT CHOSE OPTION A CANNOT DO IT.
In order to use numbers, you need to split unless im mistaken. |
Klivve Cussler
Ransoms Incorporated
62
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:13:00 -
[652] - Quote
I have been following the sub-corp ideas with great interest. They remind me of how Eve was played before the official alliance system was added to the system. There are a great many methods of organizing our little feudal kingdoms (including actual feudalism, which has worked quite well in Eve), but at the end of the day, there are only two fundamental forces affecting the politics of the game:
1. War is expensive
2. Peace is boring
If an alliance is too successful, it will crumble, if only because some CEO of a sister-corp will go "The only person I can attack is my sister-corp. Yeah, I could take them. It would be fun. Game on!" These sorts of betrayals are inevitable as soon as there aren't enough "goodfights" and people get bored of growing clones for isk.
I'm not saying this is a bad thing. In fact, I think it's a very good thing, but it's also why I'm not terribly worried about people trying to game the system by splitting into multiple corps. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
215
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:17:00 -
[653] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:trollsroyce wrote:and stalling hat empire growth is one key reason why the initial clone cap is in place. multicorp bypasses it. Actually, you are wrong. The key reason for the limit on Genolution purposes is not to stall empire growth, but to prevent an organization that has a strong foundation from attacking all the way across the galaxy. Maybe they can take their members through the squads thing, but the logistical advantages of their existing infrastructure do not apply.
Splitting corps allows a big corp to attack all the way across the galaxy on multiple fronts from the get go, though. This is vastly better than getting stalled on just going 1 corp. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
425
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:21:00 -
[654] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:The first to do it grabs a region and foritfies the bottlenecks with said alt corps. Then expands safely inside the region by giving it over to main corp by selling clones before fight, which is forfeited. If planets are anything like current nullsec with bottleneck, the alt corps allows a delve-style fortress creation within weeks.
I'm just quoting this part and not the entire post 
What will you do when, and I say when because that will happen, most / all of your initial districts get attacked on day 1 / 2 / 3?
You can't keep all of your districts (or maybe any at all) when corps are attacking them again and again by buying 100 clone packs. Unless you're a supercorp that only loses 40 clones or less (or 60 with the right SI) every battle. |
Citrutex
The High and Mighty
80
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:22:00 -
[655] - Quote
How will orbital bombardment be iterated on with this new system? Would it be unreasonable to expect the party with strong orbital support to make a sizable impact on the results of the match? Will there be a planetary siege module like we saw during the last fanfest? Will we be able to siege planets without any troops on the ground? Can eve players force a 'win'?
In other words, why/how and will eve players care? |
Evicer
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:29:00 -
[656] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:trollsroyce wrote:The first to do it grabs a region and foritfies the bottlenecks with said alt corps. Then expands safely inside the region by giving it over to main corp by selling clones before fight, which is forfeited. If planets are anything like current nullsec with bottleneck, the alt corps allows a delve-style fortress creation within weeks. I'm just quoting this part and not the entire post What will you do when, and I say when because that will happen, most / all of your initial districts get attacked on day 1 / 2 / 3? You can't keep all of your districts (or maybe any at all) when corps are attacking them again and again by buying 100 clone packs. Unless you're a supercorp that only loses 40 clones or less (or 60 with the right SI) every battle.
Bendtender is right and thats why logistically as the dev stated there would be literally to much going on for 16 guys to do at once and so this multi alt corp idea really doesnt fly much.We have to remember that All the districts one corp has are All the time open season.Not to be an ass but ask H it ler and Napoleon about multiple front wars.Just sayin.
While typing this I was also imagining Local with some dude Instead of typing LFS hell be typing LFR(looking for ringers) but we all know how blue berries are.If thats how somebody wants to run there corp,well have fun with that. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
269
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:32:00 -
[657] - Quote
Trolls, what you keep describing is an alliance, not a corp. As soon as you split into more than one corp, regardless of true affiliation or using 'ringers' as back up in battles, you are putting both isk and mercs into a separate entity that will need to be constantly monitored and administered. You will have to take people you trust to do the job properly out of your main corp and give them tens of millions of isk and that person will have to log in every day without fail in order to see if an attack is coming, then be able to contact the main corp to ask for 'ringers' to help in the defense. You might be able to keep this up with 2 or 3 sub corps but any more and you'll soon run into problems.
Also, you'll have to keep in mind that any corp could lose their initial district on day 2 or 3 to another corp (no corp is invincible) and that's instantly 21.6M isk down the drain. How much isk do you want to risk throwing away? |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
215
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:53:00 -
[658] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Trolls, what you keep describing is an alliance, not a corp. As soon as you split into more than one corp, regardless of true affiliation or using 'ringers' as back up in battles, you are putting both isk and mercs into a separate entity that will need to be constantly monitored and administered. You will have to take people you trust to do the job properly out of your main corp and give them tens of millions of isk and that person will have to log in every day without fail in order to see if an attack is coming, then be able to contact the main corp to ask for 'ringers' to help in the defense. You might be able to keep this up with 2 or 3 sub corps but any more and you'll soon run into problems.
Also, you'll have to keep in mind that any corp could lose their initial district on day 2 or 3 to another corp (no corp is invincible) and that's instantly 21.6M isk down the drain. How much isk do you want to risk throwing away?
Alliance or corp is just semantics. It's a loose gathering of players.
What's the price of having a large corp's players held back by an artificial limiting factor of a clone supply, when you could bypass it by splitting into multicorp? PC as is sounds to me like a very much split promoting thing. The only way to bypass it.
Now what happens if your large corp loses the initial district over and over, never making it into a phase where you can afford to send in any other players than your A team? The rest leave. You actually ELIMINATE the risk of this by splitting, instead of "risking more". You see which one of the corps takes off best and make it your main corp eventually.
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Shadowswipe
WarRavens
21
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Posted - 2013.03.15 21:00:00 -
[659] - Quote
Whats to stop a corp making a dummy corp to attack a bottleneck time and time again and auto losing. If you want to lock one district, it would cost a net 9 million a day to lock one district. Which if it is the right planet, it would be protecting other planets through attrition and the real enemy wouldn't be able to launch an attack, because the dummy corp gets an hour to re-queue up a fight. Thus delaying death through using a 1 man corp that dies 100 times a day.
What if the attacking force losses, other corps can queue an assault? Or does the hour to start another fight only happen if you win?
Maybe a queue system for attackers, once an attacker loses a fight, the next attacker in the queue gets the option to attack and so on. Or maybe a silent bid system where corps put forth extra funds that no one can see, whoever puts forth the highest silent amount gets the right to attack that district. The bid system could be isk or clones, any clones used in the bid get lost as a "side" conflict on who gets to attack. Only losing the difference of the side bid verse the second highest bidder. |
Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
149
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Posted - 2013.03.15 21:08:00 -
[660] - Quote
Shadowswipe wrote:Or maybe a silent bid system where corps put forth extra funds that no one can see, whoever puts forth the highest silent amount gets the right to attack that district. The bid system could be isk or clones, any clones used in the bid get lost as a "side" conflict on who gets to attack. Only losing the difference of the side bid verse the second highest bidder.
That actually sounds pretty balanced.
It introduces a small advantage for the defender (by making attacking more of an economic investment), but also guarantees the defender can't game the system to cowardly ends.
You're going to get attacked either way, but it ensures that the person who wants the attack most pays the dearest price. |
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