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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 189 post(s) |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
668
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:16:00 -
[241] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:I'm very confused (nothing new for me) and probably won't really understand things until we get to try it, but what would be the actual mechanics of attacking and defending? So lets say Tritan wants to attack a district owned by STB, STB gets a message they are being attacked and they get to set a time for the battle? Do they have a fixed time window?
The way this is sounding is, all you need is 16 awesome players and you're golden, that would be a real shame.
IMO the attack/defend system should work like this. Corp A attacks district owned by Corp B. Corp B now has 1 hour to muster its best defense. Both corps can pull in anyone willing to fight for them through squad mechanic. Any members of corp and the corp's alliance can join the battle individually. This gives corporations incentives to make allies and have their back watched at all times and to recruit from all parts of the globe.
Defenders have advantage of knowing terrain and having preset installations.
Attackers should have the advantage of timing the attack. The defending corp sets a reinforcement timer - attacks only happen when this timer runs out (and there is a 1 hour window until the next reinforcement stage happens). When you attack, the attack is set for the window that happens at least 24 hours from when you "attack". So basically, you attack, then the next day there is the actual battle to give you time to organize a defense (your own players, ringers, etc). Attackers will know when the window is and can plan accordingly - so if the window is too inconvenience, you pick a different target. This leaves the problem I foresaw where all one really needs is 16 good players more or less. Time window for actual battles should be much shorter than 24 hours. I understand CCP wanting to give small corps a chance, but this system, as is, makes numbers mean nothing.
Bigger corps can hold more districts because they can defend simultaneous attacks. It will scale to the size of your corp. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
1679
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:18:00 -
[242] - Quote
I am heading out to get some food. I shall return to the keyboard in a while and continue answering questions. Take care guys and keep the discussion going. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
668
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:18:00 -
[243] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:The defenders get access to all of the clones on their district. Whether they choose to use them all up is up to them If a defender chooses to hold some clones back and loses then what happens? The attacker wins the district but what happens to the reserved clones?
The defender loses at least 100 clones regardless of how many they consumed. The remaining stay at the district and the attacker can launch another attack if they wish. |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3166
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:19:00 -
[244] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:1) The ownership condition for attackers is depleting the enemy clones that the district contains? Yes. Although that may take multiple battles. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:2) Is there a limit to how many clones defenders can bring to one battle? Is it automatically the amount of clones the defenders have stored on the district? The defenders get access to all of the clones on their district. Whether they choose to use them all up is up to them. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:3) If you attack a district, win the battle, but didn't successfully gain control of it, do you get any sort of priority on the net window of attack? I ask because you could do like 90% of the work to take a district, and some other corp swoops in and defeats the defenders, and takes the district that would otherwise be yours. There is an exclusivity period for 1 hour after the battle start time to schedule a follow up attack during which the defender cannot move more clones in and other corps cannot attack it.
Thank you There is possible gameplay problem with this system. It prioritizes clone count over depletion over MCC destruction since MCC destruction only does 100 clone loss, while a clone count depletion has the potential to completely win a district, or to least make the enemy take a bigger clone loss. I fear Skirmish will become a glorified Ambush battle.
There needs to be more game modes or objectives associated with planetary conquest or else it will only be a glorified team-deathmatch. Here are possible ways to add complexity and variety to the actual battles: Attacking/defending clone storage to destroy clone supply. Attacking/defending to steal clones by the hundreds. |
Heinrich Jagerblitzen
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
142
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:20:00 -
[245] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Would it be possible to implement a way for one to abandon our district if we only own 1 district and take our 100 clones back to roam space?
Awww, have a little pride, Kain! Your enemies will think you lack confidence in your men.
I mean I know there's a lot of chest-puffing going on in Imperfects but you're not THAT terrible. |
Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
97
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:20:00 -
[246] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:iceyburnz wrote:The Elephant in the room map question:-
Will this be released with a fully implimented - terrain unique to each planet - dynamic/procedurally generated maps
Or will it be ashland, line harvest, manus peak, skim junction, and the wards with the same old fishbowl terrain and randomly generated structues (what we sort of have now) with the SI as a central feature.
Not full unique, we don't have the art resources to make that many levels. We do go to some crazy crazy lengths though, see stars in EVE skybox actually lining up with where they will be. So while not ready to give away all the information, I am sure you can make some assumptions for now. :P Thought: Why not crowd-source the map building? Allow players to submit alternative maps, do a review and playtest in a special "map beta" mode, and then you decide where the new map goes (so players aren't creating maps for their own districts).
This would obviously require a lot of work just to set up, but I imagine it would require less work than creating however many thousands of unique maps.
Just a thought. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
419
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:21:00 -
[247] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: There is possible gameplay problem with this system. It prioritizes clone count over depletion over MCC destruction since MCC destruction only does 100 clone loss, while a clone count depletion has the potential to completely win a district, or to least make the enemy take a bigger clone loss. I fear Skirmish will become a glorified Ambush battle.
There needs to be more game modes or objectives associated with planetary conquest or else it will only be a glorified team-deathmatch. Here are possible ways to add complexity and variety to the actual battles: Attacking/defending clone storage to destroy clone supply. Attacking/defending to steal clones by the hundreds.
The attackers would still need to focus on the objectives to win the match, because if they lose on MCC destruction they lose all the clones they brought.
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Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
264
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:21:00 -
[248] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:
I should clarify 3. No you cannot cancel the attack. Think carefully about how many clones you want to attack with.
You can however move clones from district A (which you own) to district X (which someone else owns) and then move clones from district B (which you also own) to district A. Once another district attacks district A though you cannot move more clones to it.
This is alot like the rules of Diplomacy. Which kind of begs the question of reinforcements...How will allies factor in to all this? I love diplomacy. It has been a big inspiration for this design.
Based off this then, may I suggest an alteration to the 'one attacker' design, which would be "The first attacker or the next attacker in that reinforcement period with the highest number of arriving clones by a 10% margin (or something)" becomes the preeminent attacker.
This could enable allied supporting actions effectively.
Defender has district X. Attacker A attacks with 450 clones but is 2 districts away so they arrive in system with 270 clones. Ally B in same system as district X sees attacker and sends 273 clones from its lab upgraded district.
This action 'blocks' Attacker A, who then returns home with his 270 clones. But the risk is that ally B was forced to be vulnerable for that period. |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
239
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:22:00 -
[249] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:I think owning all, or most of the districts, should allow you to name the planet. Makes it a bit more of an achievement. And no one can re-name it until they take the majority of districts. Would be great fun.
The Chest beating will commence |
Heinrich Jagerblitzen
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
142
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:23:00 -
[250] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:I am heading out to get some food. I shall return to the keyboard in a while and continue answering questions. Take care guys and keep the discussion going.
CCP really needs a special assistant that just fetches food for developers on important news/patch release days. Also, old school chamber pots under the desk at the office. This is SPACE FUTURE, why should we let the needs of just one fleshy body stand in the way of PROGRESS???
o7 |
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
91
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:23:00 -
[251] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:Oh I do trust them, let make that clear and they are so pumped up for this I can't begin to tell you. But the lack of roles is a worry. I just want the Dust corps to have the kind of internal compartmentalisation mechanic that Eve corps take for granted. But then I'm an Eve player and as we all know, we're completely paranoid. My apologies, I didn't look at your corp. That's a mighty big herd of cats you have to wrangle and I imagine you have an equally big team of directors for the job.
Cats with big teeth and bigger guns.
No need to apologise. But there are bigger corps than us so I can imagine their CEO's have the same concerns as I.
I'm not the CEO by the way. I'm the clone merc/brother of Dennie Fleetfoot, the Director of Operations, in charge of the day to day running of the corp.
Any other Dust corp managers with Eve toons beginning to understand how schizophrenics feel by the way?
I'm not saying I'm jumping at small noises yet but it can't be far off...
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Karl Koekwaus
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:23:00 -
[252] - Quote
In regards to possible EVE tie ins with the 3 buildings:
Cargo Hub - 100,000,000 ISK - Increases the maximum number of clones by 50%.
On Planet: The Corp or Alliance (maybe even base it on standings) who owns the POCO above the planet can store more PI products in the POCO 75Km3 instead of 37.5K and the Spaceport and other planetary storage is increased as well. If the district is lost, the POCO and storage facilities go into an Overloaded state, not accepting any more goods until enough space is made available. If the POCO is lost, good in space are lost, storage facilities will enter a Overloaded state.
In Space: Corps owning the POCO and district in a non station system have a kind of Corp Hangars which they can use to base out of. Items stored in this hangar while the district is lost, will remain planetside and can't be retrieved unless a new POCO is anchored. If this POCO has a different owner than the corp who wants to retrieve the goods, they'll have to pay export taxes according to the value of the goods stored and the export taxes set by the new owners.
Surface Research Lab - 100,000,000 ISK - Decreases the attrition of moving clones by 50%.
On Planet: Scanning Planets for Material Hotspots gets a boost for the Corp or Alliance (or base it on standings) members of 25%, making the perfect exploitation of planetary resources easier. Advanced PI production plants require 25% less CPU/PG to deploy.
In Space: Aside from the Planetary benefit, POS research times get a boost of 10%. This bonus is for all kinds of research so ME/PE/Invention and RE, due to the ability to unload some work to planetary labs, due to the nature of much of the research, it's not really effective to do so, as only basic jobs can be offloaded planetary due to atmospheric conditions adversely affecting research.
Production Facility - 100,000,000 ISK - Increase clone generation rate by 50%.
On planet: PI production gets a 25% cycle time bonus. This will cause material Hotspots to deplete faster.
In Space:
Gives POCO's 3 Production lines, these function the same as Equipment Assembly Arrays with some added bonuses. Production lines in the POCO get a 25% Production time bonus for Tech 1 Products and a 35% bonus for Tech 2 products (Compared to a standard POS equipment assembly array). This is because moon materials can be processed on the surface of planets, making it more efficient to build Tech 2 parts on planets and using a space elevator to freighter them up for further assembly in the final goods. If the POCO is destroyed the same rules as building items using a POS apply.
Since Districts are a lowsec and lower thing, giving some massive bonuses to PI when owning more than 3 districts and Production should spur more interesting gameplay for POCO shooters and Industrialists alike since the capturing of a POCO now gives more than just some PI Tax. It also gives Incentives for EVE pilots to try and be there to support their local Ground Soldiers.
It would be more awesome for Dust Corp Directors to put up Sell orders for the Clones in POCO's so EVE pilots can buy and traffic them into other systems selling them in stations to Dust corps who use them for invasions. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
655
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:24:00 -
[253] - Quote
Goric Rumis wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:iceyburnz wrote:The Elephant in the room map question:-
Will this be released with a fully implimented - terrain unique to each planet - dynamic/procedurally generated maps
Or will it be ashland, line harvest, manus peak, skim junction, and the wards with the same old fishbowl terrain and randomly generated structues (what we sort of have now) with the SI as a central feature.
Not full unique, we don't have the art resources to make that many levels. We do go to some crazy crazy lengths though, see stars in EVE skybox actually lining up with where they will be. So while not ready to give away all the information, I am sure you can make some assumptions for now. :P Thought: Why not crowd-source the map building? Allow players to submit alternative maps, do a review and playtest in a special "map beta" mode, and then you decide where the new map goes (so players aren't creating maps for their own districts). This would obviously require a lot of work just to set up, but I imagine it would require less work than creating however many thousands of unique maps. Just a thought. hmm just the terrain maybe, and then allow CCP to play around with the design to fit SI into the map. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries
1030
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:24:00 -
[254] - Quote
So the defender is limited to the clone count at the start of the timer, but what of the attacker?
As I read it, they can keep calling in follow on attacks from different districts until they whittle the defenders down to nothing. That means an attacker can almost be assured of a victory if they are willing to commit enough resources and a small corp can always be kicked back into space, correct? |
Heinrich Jagerblitzen
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
142
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:25:00 -
[255] - Quote
EnIgMa99 wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:I think owning all, or most of the districts, should allow you to name the planet. Makes it a bit more of an achievement. And no one can re-name it until they take the majority of districts. Would be great fun. The Chest beating will commence
And the TTP will be incredibly short. Surely you know this, Foxy. |
D3LTA SUP3RMAN
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
244
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:32:00 -
[256] - Quote
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:EnIgMa99 wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:I think owning all, or most of the districts, should allow you to name the planet. Makes it a bit more of an achievement. And no one can re-name it until they take the majority of districts. Would be great fun. The Chest beating will commence And the TTP will be incredibly short. Surely you know this, Foxy.
Damn that corp title looks good under your name Heinrich : )
My question is that of the corp wallet. I tried to find it but because i'm on my phone i could have missed a page or so. Will we be able to purchase the clones and such from our EVE corp wallets or just our DUST corp wallet?
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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
656
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:36:00 -
[257] - Quote
Skihids wrote:So the defender is limited to the clone count at the start of the timer, but what of the attacker?
As I read it, they can keep calling in follow on attacks from different districts until they whittle the defenders down to nothing. That means an attacker can almost be assured of a victory if they are willing to commit enough resources and a small corp can always be kicked back into space, correct? only for a set period of time, and both corps can funnel clones into that district so we're going to end up with situations like this big corp with lots of territory= more clones to throw into fights lots of territory= more attacks to beat off more attacks to beat off= less clones to be moved about to reinforce districts
this would mean that trying to win simply through attrition could be a risky strategy if the small corp got allies to attack the larger aggressor corp and prevent him from deploying his reserves |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
656
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:36:00 -
[258] - Quote
Skihids wrote:So the defender is limited to the clone count at the start of the timer, but what of the attacker?
As I read it, they can keep calling in follow on attacks from different districts until they whittle the defenders down to nothing. That means an attacker can almost be assured of a victory if they are willing to commit enough resources and a small corp can always be kicked back into space, correct? only for a set period of time, and both corps can funnel clones into that district so we're going to end up with situations like this big corp with lots of territory= more clones to throw into fights lots of territory= more attacks to beat off more attacks to beat off= less clones to be moved about to reinforce districts
this would mean that trying to win simply through attrition could be a risky strategy if the small corp got allies to attack the larger aggressor corp and prevent him from deploying his reserves |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
922
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:36:00 -
[259] - Quote
D3LTA SUP3RMAN wrote:Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:EnIgMa99 wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:I think owning all, or most of the districts, should allow you to name the planet. Makes it a bit more of an achievement. And no one can re-name it until they take the majority of districts. Would be great fun. The Chest beating will commence And the TTP will be incredibly short. Surely you know this, Foxy. Damn that corp title looks good under your name Heinrich : ) My question is that of the corp wallet. I tried to find it but because i'm on my phone i could have missed a page or so. Will we be able to purchase the clones and such from our EVE corp wallets or just our DUST corp wallet?
I suggested this but got no reply. |
Nomed Deeps
The Exemplars
96
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:36:00 -
[260] - Quote
Quote:Will we be able to purchase the clones and such from our EVE corp wallets or just our DUST corp wallet?
From what I heard, as the economies are not yet joined, everything will still be bought in DUST. |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3167
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:37:00 -
[261] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: There is possible gameplay problem with this system. It prioritizes clone count over depletion over MCC destruction since MCC destruction only does 100 clone loss, while a clone count depletion has the potential to completely win a district, or to least make the enemy take a bigger clone loss. I fear Skirmish will become a glorified Ambush battle.
There needs to be more game modes or objectives associated with planetary conquest or else it will only be a glorified team-deathmatch. Here are possible ways to add complexity and variety to the actual battles: Attacking/defending clone storage to destroy clone supply. Attacking/defending to steal clones by the hundreds.
The attackers would still need to focus on the objectives to win the match, because if they lose on MCC destruction they lose all the clones they brought.
That is a good point, though it won't really matter if the difference in skill is great enough; with the right difference, a corp can steamroll an apposing team and wipe out their clone reserves and win faster than the MCC gets destroyed.
This may not be the case when defenders can stack their clones to large numbers, but I would still like more variety in the game modes. I don't always want to just be capturing null cannons and depleting clones. We need objectives besides null cannons, and we need attack/defend modes. |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
264
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:37:00 -
[262] - Quote
Skihids wrote:So the defender is limited to the clone count at the start of the timer, but what of the attacker?
As I read it, they can keep calling in follow on attacks from different districts until they whittle the defenders down to nothing. That means an attacker can almost be assured of a victory if they are willing to commit enough resources and a small corp can always be kicked back into space, correct?
As I read this you aren't exactly correct. If they destroy the enemy MCC they get 20% of the clones left in the MCC. So if the attackers are conservative with their clones, then the defenders could possibly end up with a net gain in clones while the attacker lost some in 'attrition' from the attack. In addition, the defender will get the attacker's loot, and also the attacker still paid to get there.
So if you are mounting a very strong defense continually, it's possible to be making isk. |
LXicon
VENGEANCE FOR HIRE
59
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:41:00 -
[263] - Quote
The revenue for a corp that owns a district is derived from the number of clones they want to sell...
With all this added revenue, will the CEO and Directors get improved ways to divvy up the ISK to the corp members? Will (non-director) corp members be able to see who is getting paid by the corp? |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
419
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:41:00 -
[264] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: There is possible gameplay problem with this system. It prioritizes clone count over depletion over MCC destruction since MCC destruction only does 100 clone loss, while a clone count depletion has the potential to completely win a district, or to least make the enemy take a bigger clone loss. I fear Skirmish will become a glorified Ambush battle.
There needs to be more game modes or objectives associated with planetary conquest or else it will only be a glorified team-deathmatch. Here are possible ways to add complexity and variety to the actual battles: Attacking/defending clone storage to destroy clone supply. Attacking/defending to steal clones by the hundreds.
The attackers would still need to focus on the objectives to win the match, because if they lose on MCC destruction they lose all the clones they brought. That is a good point, though it won't really matter if the difference in skill is great enough; with the right difference, a corp can steamroll an apposing team and wipe out their clone reserves and win faster than the MCC gets destroyed. This may not be the case when defenders can stack their clones to large numbers, but I would still like more variety in the game modes. I don't always want to just be capturing null cannons and depleting clones. We need objectives besides null cannons, and we need attack/defend modes. FoxFour / Nullarbor said in IRC they want to bring Skirmish 1.0 (or maybe something similar) back. Not for this build, but in the future at least.
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Kitten Commander
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:42:00 -
[265] - Quote
Interesting to see how this turns out as alliances decide who owns what on planets and in systems.
The backstabbing will be Kittening fantastic. |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
354
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:42:00 -
[266] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:The defenders get access to all of the clones on their district. Whether they choose to use them all up is up to them If a defender chooses to hold some clones back and loses then what happens? The attacker wins the district but what happens to the reserved clones? The defender loses at least 100 clones regardless of how many they consumed. The remaining stay at the district and the attacker can launch another attack if they wish.
When you say they can launch another attack, does that battle commence immediately or does it take place again 24 hours later?
Edit- Also with the squad count going up to 6 will the WP requirement for PS/OB still remain 2500 or will it be increased? |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
922
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:43:00 -
[267] - Quote
LXicon wrote:The revenue for a corp that owns a district is derived from the number of clones they want to sell...
With all this added revenue, will the CEO and Directors get improved ways to divvy up the ISK to the corp members? Will (non-director) corp members be able to see who is getting paid by the corp?
This doesn't happen in Eve so I doubt they will do it in Dust |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
922
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:44:00 -
[268] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:The defenders get access to all of the clones on their district. Whether they choose to use them all up is up to them If a defender chooses to hold some clones back and loses then what happens? The attacker wins the district but what happens to the reserved clones? The defender loses at least 100 clones regardless of how many they consumed. The remaining stay at the district and the attacker can launch another attack if they wish. When you say they can launch another attack, does that battle commence immediately or does it take place again 24 hours later? Edit- Also with the squad count going up to 6 will the WP requirement for PS/OB still remain 2500 or will it be increased?
Shhhh!! We want more OB! |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
354
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:46:00 -
[269] - Quote
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Would it be possible to implement a way for one to abandon our district if we only own 1 district and take our 100 clones back to roam space? Awww, have a little pride, Kain! Your enemies will think you lack confidence in your men. I mean I know there's a lot of chest-puffing going on in Imperfects but you're not THAT terrible.
Fool if i was allowed to comment on the nature of these questions you'd **** yourself at the thought of what they would allows us to do. As it is like every other fool that dreams of being the next caeser, napolean, or kahn you lack the vision to see the bigger metagame.
In the battle of wits against the IMPS you arrive to the fight unarmed and outgunned in every way imaginable. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium
369
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:52:00 -
[270] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:LXicon wrote:The revenue for a corp that owns a district is derived from the number of clones they want to sell...
With all this added revenue, will the CEO and Directors get improved ways to divvy up the ISK to the corp members? Will (non-director) corp members be able to see who is getting paid by the corp? This doesn't happen in Eve so I doubt they will do it in Dust
Looks like the combatants get paid with biomass value of clones killed and loot. The corporation should keep the district earnings to help fund district upgrades and clone transportation.
CCP, will corp armories come with this build too?
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