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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 189 post(s) |
Jack Sharkey42
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
45
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:54:00 -
[271] - Quote
Does anyone have a feeling that this sort of invasion process is going to turn into a huge sniper fest? |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
670
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:55:00 -
[272] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:The defenders get access to all of the clones on their district. Whether they choose to use them all up is up to them If a defender chooses to hold some clones back and loses then what happens? The attacker wins the district but what happens to the reserved clones? The defender loses at least 100 clones regardless of how many they consumed. The remaining stay at the district and the attacker can launch another attack if they wish. When you say they can launch another attack, does that battle commence immediately or does it take place again 24 hours later? Edit- Also with the squad count going up to 6 will the WP requirement for PS/OB still remain 2500 or will it be increased?
The following day at around the same time. |
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Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
354
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:57:00 -
[273] - Quote
I know others have shot down the dummy corp idea for holding a district indefinitely given the isk cost but once EVE isk can come into play that can easily be overcome at current isk rates.
So again there needs to be some safeguard beyond ISK to prevent dummycorp to attack valuable districts, if done properly keep the dummy corps to hold no districts, buy 100 clones attack most lucrative districts and keep them perputally engaged in combat 20million isk is nothing to make that happen. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
922
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:58:00 -
[274] - Quote
Jack Sharkey42 wrote:Does anyone have a feeling that this sort of invasion process is going to turn into a huge sniper fest?
Nope |
Jack Sharkey42
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
45
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:59:00 -
[275] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote:I know others have shot down the dummy corp idea for holding a district indefinitely given the isk cost but once EVE isk can come into play that can easily be overcome at current isk rates.
So again there needs to be some safeguard beyond ISK to prevent dummycorp to attack valuable districts, if done properly keep the dummy corps to hold no districts, buy 100 clones attack most lucrative districts and keep them perputally engaged in combat 20million isk is nothing to make that happen.
1984 anyone? :D |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
264
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:00:00 -
[276] - Quote
Success will be just as much about efficiency as it will be skill. Right now, current income levels means that if you are REALLY good you could make 1 million isk each hour you play. BUT if you are that good you really should be out in district fights. So lets say you can make 600kisk/ hour after losses. Thats about 6 clones in losses (opportunity cost of selling clone).
To sustain losses of 300 clone fights where you consistently lose you would be effectively paying 75 million isk+ per battle after other losses. Not to mention, the defender gets loot and isk from biomass. Then also, when you lose, that district that sent clones now has fewer clones so it must be considered for defensive purposes.
Sustained battles lasting weeks would be incredibly expensive and I doubt that any corp has the funds to cover something like it quite yet. |
knight of 6
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
96
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:05:00 -
[277] - Quote
about OB's... if in a battle determining the ownership of a district will the WP amount be reduced or removed(count down timer ect)?
when in eve there is no limits to the amount of fire power one can bring to a fight. it would seem a shame to limit (more than necessary) the amount of support that a corp can bring in, in dust. also it would promote capsuleer-merc interaction. and produce some interesting situations.
just a thought i'll reserve my judgement for the release. |
Nomed Deeps
The Exemplars
96
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:05:00 -
[278] - Quote
Could those actually getting answered please ask the following question:
- What's the ETA on alliance UI being available from the DUST side?
I tried twice myself without answer. |
BursegSardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
62
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:07:00 -
[279] - Quote
Jack Sharkey42 wrote:Does anyone have a feeling that this sort of invasion process is going to turn into a huge sniper fest?
lol Defense: sniper fest Offense: tank spam
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knight of 6
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
96
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:09:00 -
[280] - Quote
BursegSardaukar wrote:Jack Sharkey42 wrote:Does anyone have a feeling that this sort of invasion process is going to turn into a huge sniper fest? lol Defense: sniper fest Offense: tank spam winner: lone scout hacking objectives. tankers don't leave their tanks snipers don't move period. |
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Jack Sharkey42
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
46
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:13:00 -
[281] - Quote
knight of 6 wrote:BursegSardaukar wrote:Jack Sharkey42 wrote:Does anyone have a feeling that this sort of invasion process is going to turn into a huge sniper fest? lol Defense: sniper fest Offense: tank spam winner: lone scout hacking objectives. tankers don't leave their tanks snipers don't move period.
Actually I think tank spam might just win that one lol |
VINGTHOR LYNN
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:16:00 -
[282] - Quote
So far so good, and thank you for all the hard work!
Naturally there is still a lot of work ahead but of all the things that are still to come I mostly wonder about the very etheric link between EVE and DUST.
To the question about about FW you indicate "new system is coming for factional warfare". On the other hand to the question about the new PC and EVE link you answer that : "We will be posting a dev blog about that later on".
I am very curious about that link because this is what inspires many of us to form EVE/Dust alliances or even discuss unofficial coalitions with the militia pilots. So I will try to make another poke at that link:
Will there be any link between PC and FW? Or to put it in another way: if a DUST corp is a member of the militia will it be able to benefit from FW militia gains as well get clones by conquering a district in FW space in a PC battle |
Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
93
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:17:00 -
[283] - Quote
Another major concern is now forming in my mind. Both for the smaller corps and those that have no established links to Eve corps.
The placement of district seeding is going to be crucially important. A Dust corp with a link to a big Eve one can effectively remove any chance of their opponent using OB by blockading a planet and destroying ships that come near a district to give ground support. OB's are an important asset and to not even be even able to use them is going to put a lot of corp off even trying to set up a ground presence.
This problem will mean that it will be absolutely impossible for a small corp to establish anything by itself. They would have to join an alliance.
Those just wanting a carve a niche for themselves are going to find it next to impossible.
I'm not saying that the sandbox should be altered but the game is difficult enough for players not used to it without making it even more difficult
Is there any thinking as to changes in mechanics to stop the larger player blocs from just dominating Dust on day one, because that could lead to some real problems in trying to get players used to COD and it's shortened skill queue into Dust and staying here. |
Klivve Cussler
Ransoms Incorporated
57
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:17:00 -
[284] - Quote
So we have, what, six maps that have been going into and out of circulation? three installation hubs, so that's 18 different terrain combinations, plus mood-ing to increase the variation, plus vegetation will be in by then, so that's... an ok start. Implement a water level variation and about have about double the current maps, and that's better.
Question 1: Is this the beginning of the installation system descibed in the "Seeding the Universe" talk at fanfest last year? If so, are these considered the big hubs, or are they medium or small installations and will look more appropriately-sized when we get the bigger maps?
Question 2: Given that the "you'll be able to see starships in orbit over your district in the next build" is still valid, is there any chance we'll be able to see ALL the ships on-grid above the district, so we can watch the low-sec pirates blow our orbital support ships out of space?
Proposal 1: Can our corps charge a fee for Eve PI installations in our districts? This would allow a little bit of cross-game transactions, without too badly affecting either economy. It also would promote one corporation to do PI and own the planet to avoid the fees. The corp holding the majority of districts on the planet could potentially gain control of the customs office, as well.
Proposal 2: Structure construction times. Give each structure a period of time when it is under construction. Say a week. If you have a battle during that week, the structure is rendered under construction, with cranes and scaffolding, giving more variation and immersion
Proposal 3: This is a cheap, cheap one, but it would go a long way to adding immersion: Merc Quarters in a district: All you'd need is a window. Render a specific view of that district depending on the structure present (so ever MQ would have the same window in the same district). All mercs to select what district they live in. If the district falls, make them choose another. Mercs with no districts have no window (are on a station). Have the window closed during a battle within that district. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3168
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:32:00 -
[285] - Quote
When you win a planetary conquest battle. do you personally get money, or does only your corp wallet get the money? |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium
369
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:35:00 -
[286] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:When you win a planetary conquest battle. do you personally get money, or does only your corp wallet get the money?
"ISK reward is split amongst team members based on time spent in the match even if the player leaves the match; a minimum of 60 seconds must be spent in the match to qualify."
+ salvage based on a percentage of what the other team lost. |
LXicon
VENGEANCE FOR HIRE
60
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:40:00 -
[287] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:When you win a planetary conquest battle. do you personally get money, or does only your corp wallet get the money? "ISK reward is split amongst team members based on time spent in the match even if the player leaves the match; a minimum of 60 seconds must be spent in the match to qualify." + salvage based on a percentage of what the other team lost. the corp will get ISK for selling excess clones produced on it's districts that it doesn't need for attacking or defending. |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
441
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:53:00 -
[288] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote:I know others have shot down the dummy corp idea for holding a district indefinitely given the isk cost but once EVE isk can come into play that can easily be overcome at current isk rates.
So again there needs to be some safeguard beyond ISK to prevent dummycorp to attack valuable districts, if done properly keep the dummy corps to hold no districts, buy 100 clones attack most lucrative districts and keep them perputally engaged in combat 20million isk is nothing to make that happen.
Ya a big corp collecting taxes from the members that just run pub matches can support a dummy corp. pretty well. But I guess this is a legitimate tactic and can see how this can be abused.
Whats stopping you having multi dummy corp. since you cant own space to buy mercs, one simply makes a dozen corps and launders money into them to have them hold hi value places? |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
264
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Posted - 2013.03.14 22:03:00 -
[289] - Quote
Belzeebub Santana wrote:Gunner Nightingale wrote:I know others have shot down the dummy corp idea for holding a district indefinitely given the isk cost but once EVE isk can come into play that can easily be overcome at current isk rates.
So again there needs to be some safeguard beyond ISK to prevent dummycorp to attack valuable districts, if done properly keep the dummy corps to hold no districts, buy 100 clones attack most lucrative districts and keep them perputally engaged in combat 20million isk is nothing to make that happen. Ya a big corp collecting taxes from the members that just run pub matches can support a dummy corp. pretty well. But I guess this is a legitimate tactic and can see how this can be abused. Whats stopping you having multi dummy corp. since you cant own space to buy mercs, one simply makes a dozen corps and launders money into them to have them hold hi value places?
You can't transfer money from corp to corp yet. How would this happen. As soon as people move they have an employment history you can see in eve. You will be able to see the shell network system pretty quickly. |
BursegSardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
63
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Posted - 2013.03.14 22:18:00 -
[290] - Quote
Jack Sharkey42 wrote:knight of 6 wrote:BursegSardaukar wrote:Jack Sharkey42 wrote:Does anyone have a feeling that this sort of invasion process is going to turn into a huge sniper fest? lol Defense: sniper fest Offense: tank spam winner: lone scout hacking objectives. tankers don't leave their tanks snipers don't move period. Actually I think tank spam might just win that one lol
The attackers should actually avoid taking ALL the objectives - their goal (to claim the district) is to deplete all the clones on it. This means their goal should be to win by clone destruction. They need to keep the points from being hacked from the get-go, or cap 51% of the points and hold them just so they don't lose their MCC. |
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Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
419
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Posted - 2013.03.14 22:20:00 -
[291] - Quote
BursegSardaukar wrote:
The attackers should actually avoid taking ALL the objectives - their goal (to claim the district) is to deplete all the clones on it. This means their goal should be to win by clone destruction. They need to keep the points from being hacked from the get-go, or cap 51% of the points and hold them just so they don't lose their MCC.
The problem is that the defenders will go hide when they've lost 100 clones unless they're absolutely certain they'll win the match. |
Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
347
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Posted - 2013.03.14 22:24:00 -
[292] - Quote
So I read most of this thread, and my only question is, what if you send the 100 clones to a district, but due to degradation, only 20, 30, whatever, make it? do you still take the unoccupied district/fight with only 20 clones? or is there a failsafe in place to prevent fewer than 100 clones from arriving (like, an error telling you you must send 300 clones to a district x jumps away) or... what? alternately, if you send 100 clones to attack a neighboring district, and it leaves 40 clones at your main base, what happens if someone attacks your main base? you don't have the 100 clones to muster. this is the only confusion for me.
other than that, as far as this "mad dash for districts" goes, on the first day, it will be one district per corp, since the minimum amount of clones you can send is 100, and if you take an unclaimed district, that is all you will have for at least one day. thus meaning it will take a week or so for any one corp to claim an entire planet uncontested. longer if someone else moves in. |
Average Joe81
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2013.03.14 22:27:00 -
[293] - Quote
What of Eve's current planetary installation system?
And also besides that, at the end of the blog it says corps will have to form armies and navies so does that mean that we are going to get boats or will we just be swimming around in a big ocean? |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
210
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Posted - 2013.03.14 22:28:00 -
[294] - Quote
WARNING AND DOOMSAY:
The described mechanic favors exponential growth! As the ISK making through clones is not dependant on resource rarity and consumption, this can be cracked down to "attack spam 10000 districs, snowball effect and insert rapton of ISK in New Eden".
This is purely a numbers game by spam attacking, setting tedious timezones as defense and just using all manhours in district flipping.
Nullsec sov passive ISK is relying on the moon minerals as industry materials, and by bottlenecks favors defending precious ones. As explained in blog, the system is cracked and won by exponential attack growth and hence by numbers.
NOOOOoooo!
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Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
99
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Posted - 2013.03.14 22:30:00 -
[295] - Quote
BursegSardaukar wrote:Jack Sharkey42 wrote:knight of 6 wrote:BursegSardaukar wrote:Jack Sharkey42 wrote:Does anyone have a feeling that this sort of invasion process is going to turn into a huge sniper fest? lol Defense: sniper fest Offense: tank spam winner: lone scout hacking objectives. tankers don't leave their tanks snipers don't move period. Actually I think tank spam might just win that one lol The attackers should actually avoid taking ALL the objectives - their goal (to claim the district) is to deplete all the clones on it. This means their goal should be to win by clone destruction. They need to keep the points from being hacked from the get-go, or cap 51% of the points and hold them just so they don't lose their MCC. It allows us to play a variety of goals. Maybe the attacker's objective isn't to deplete clones at all, but to stop production (e.g., you're hired by another corp to help stifle your target's clone production so they can't transfer the additional clones to defend another district). Even then, you want to maximize the number of clones you kill, but it won't be top priority.
There's also the possibility that you don't yet have enough clones to compete with your target, and you want to disable their clone production so that your total number of clones can catch up. In that case, you might be attacking with all the clones you have, and you'll want to destroy the MCC as soon as possible so that you don't lose too many and leave yourself vulnerable.
Also remember that the defender will have up to 450 clones, while you only have what you bring with you. If you lose all of your clones before you can destroy the MCC, you lose. It's a calculated risk when trying a tactic like this.
So really, there are a lot of possibilities. Yes, in general you will probably try to maximize your opponent's clone loss so you can take over the district as quickly as possible, but your opponent will be trying to prevent that. If I had a corp that was getting stomped and we hit the 100-clone minimum, I'd order everybody to sit in the MCC until it went down (if we were obviously losing anyway). |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
264
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Posted - 2013.03.14 22:36:00 -
[296] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:WARNING AND DOOMSAY:
The described mechanic favors exponential growth! As the ISK making through clones is not dependant on resource rarity and consumption, this can be cracked down to "attack spam 10000 districs, snowball effect and insert rapton of ISK in New Eden".
This is purely a numbers game by spam attacking, setting tedious timezones as defense and just using all manhours in district flipping.
Nullsec sov passive ISK is relying on the moon minerals as industry materials, and by bottlenecks favors defending precious ones. As explained in blog, the system is cracked and won by exponential attack growth and hence by numbers.
NOOOOoooo!
The more districts you own the more places you will be able to be attacked from. The way they describe it, you will be able to be attacked at 100% efficiency from all districts in your system each day, the at decent efficiency from what will probably be like 25-30% of remaining districts. Just because you have lots of money it doesn't give you a win button. If you own 10 districts that is 10 man-hours x 16 members you will be vulnerable. You will be responsible for 160 man hours of defense time FOR DEFENSE ONLY. If you want to increase your attacking logarithmically you have to also find enough attacking teams good enough to make that pace of advance worth it. |
R F Gyro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
317
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Posted - 2013.03.14 22:37:00 -
[297] - Quote
Average Joe81 wrote:What of Eve's current planetary installation system?
And also besides that, at the end of the blog it says corps will have to form armies and navies so does that mean that we are going to get boats or will we just be swimming around in a big ocean? lol - I get through 14.8 pages with no-one asking the question I was thinking, and then you pop up 2 posts from the end of the last page!
I too would like to know whether the planets we'll be fighting for will also have Eve PI happening on them.
I'm guessing there'd be no interaction between them anyway, but it is still interesting to think about. Maybe there could be some indication in the Eve PI interface that the planet has battles raging on it? |
Klivve Cussler
Ransoms Incorporated
59
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Posted - 2013.03.14 22:42:00 -
[298] - Quote
Quote:Can our corps charge a fee for Eve PI installations in our districts? This would allow a little bit of cross-game transactions, without too badly affecting either economy. It also would promote one corporation to do PI and own the planet to avoid the fees. The corp holding the majority of districts on the planet could potentially gain control of the customs office, as well.
Here's my idea on PI, since it was buried in a TL;DR. |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
264
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Posted - 2013.03.14 22:44:00 -
[299] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:Average Joe81 wrote:What of Eve's current planetary installation system?
And also besides that, at the end of the blog it says corps will have to form armies and navies so does that mean that we are going to get boats or will we just be swimming around in a big ocean? lol - I get through 14.8 pages with no-one asking the question I was thinking, and then you pop up 2 posts from the end of the last page! I too would like to know whether the planets we'll be fighting for will also have Eve PI happening on them. I'm guessing there'd be no interaction between them anyway, but it is still interesting to think about. Maybe there could be some indication in the Eve PI interface that the planet has battles raging on it?
There is no reason they won't have PI on them. What has been said before and looks like is suggested on the wiki is that PI occurring in our districts will get bonuses from our installations. Causing the owners to maybe want to support us, but if they get their bonus regardless of owner then they won't care. What we need to know is what we get out of it. This is probably news for eve players at fanfest.
As far as a navy. Your EvE pilots are the navy doof! |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
927
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Posted - 2013.03.14 22:46:00 -
[300] - Quote
I've got a serious question, Why does the losing team get salvage? In eve if you win, you salvage your own equipment as well.
Thus the name right? Salvage? |
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