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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 189 post(s) |
Shadowswipe
WarRavens
21
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Posted - 2013.03.14 18:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
How do you stop a corporation from using dummy corps to start a battle and then while in the battle, intentionally losing all their clones to the defender to minimize the cost, and keeping a sought after district from being taken by a rival corp that can't get the battle setup before the dummy corp? If a dummy corp intentionally attacks a district for 20mil, 5 million will be given to the defenders for a net loss of 15mil. Which I assume is far less expensive than losing the district and whatever buildings might be in it. |
Shadowswipe
WarRavens
21
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Posted - 2013.03.15 21:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Whats to stop a corp making a dummy corp to attack a bottleneck time and time again and auto losing. If you want to lock one district, it would cost a net 9 million a day to lock one district. Which if it is the right planet, it would be protecting other planets through attrition and the real enemy wouldn't be able to launch an attack, because the dummy corp gets an hour to re-queue up a fight. Thus delaying death through using a 1 man corp that dies 100 times a day.
What if the attacking force losses, other corps can queue an assault? Or does the hour to start another fight only happen if you win?
Maybe a queue system for attackers, once an attacker loses a fight, the next attacker in the queue gets the option to attack and so on. Or maybe a silent bid system where corps put forth extra funds that no one can see, whoever puts forth the highest silent amount gets the right to attack that district. The bid system could be isk or clones, any clones used in the bid get lost as a "side" conflict on who gets to attack. Only losing the difference of the side bid verse the second highest bidder. |
Shadowswipe
WarRavens
22
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Posted - 2013.03.15 21:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:Shadowswipe wrote:Or maybe a silent bid system where corps put forth extra funds that no one can see, whoever puts forth the highest silent amount gets the right to attack that district. The bid system could be isk or clones, any clones used in the bid get lost as a "side" conflict on who gets to attack. Only losing the difference of the side bid verse the second highest bidder. That actually sounds pretty balanced. It introduces a small advantage for the defender (by making attacking more of an economic investment), but also guarantees the defender can't game the system to cowardly ends. You're going to get attacked either way, but it ensures that the person who wants the attack most pays the dearest price.
Hell, if you made a skill for it, it would reduce the total isk needed to outbid someone else that doesn't have the skill. "Political Ties" or something... lol |
Shadowswipe
WarRavens
22
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Posted - 2013.03.15 21:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Shadowswipe wrote:Whats to stop a corp making a dummy corp to attack a bottleneck time and time again and auto losing. If you want to lock one district, it would cost a net 9 million a day to lock one district. Which if it is the right planet, it would be protecting other planets through attrition and the real enemy wouldn't be able to launch an attack, because the dummy corp gets an hour to re-queue up a fight. Thus delaying death through using a 1 man corp that dies 100 times a day.
What if the attacking force losses, other corps can queue an assault? Or does the hour to start another fight only happen if you win?
Maybe a queue system for attackers, once an attacker loses a fight, the next attacker in the queue gets the option to attack and so on. Or maybe a silent bid system where corps put forth extra funds that no one can see, whoever puts forth the highest silent amount gets the right to attack that district. The bid system could be isk or clones, any clones used in the bid get lost as a "side" conflict on who gets to attack. Only losing the difference of the side bid verse the second highest bidder. A dummy corp attacking just to lose will be instantly down 20M isk. How long can anyone keep up throwing 20M isk around every day just to keep a district locked?
20 million for the starter pack. 5 million if you kill all 100 clones and let none get wasted in the MCC. The final 6 mil comes from the district producing at max cap 60 extra clones, cause if it lost the fight, it would lose those clones and the dummy corp is preventing the district from losing. Total net lose. 20 - 5 - 6 = 9. |
Shadowswipe
WarRavens
22
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Posted - 2013.03.15 21:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Shadowswipe wrote:Django Quik wrote:Shadowswipe wrote:Whats to stop a corp making a dummy corp to attack a bottleneck time and time again and auto losing. If you want to lock one district, it would cost a net 9 million a day to lock one district. Which if it is the right planet, it would be protecting other planets through attrition and the real enemy wouldn't be able to launch an attack, because the dummy corp gets an hour to re-queue up a fight. Thus delaying death through using a 1 man corp that dies 100 times a day.
What if the attacking force losses, other corps can queue an assault? Or does the hour to start another fight only happen if you win?
Maybe a queue system for attackers, once an attacker loses a fight, the next attacker in the queue gets the option to attack and so on. Or maybe a silent bid system where corps put forth extra funds that no one can see, whoever puts forth the highest silent amount gets the right to attack that district. The bid system could be isk or clones, any clones used in the bid get lost as a "side" conflict on who gets to attack. Only losing the difference of the side bid verse the second highest bidder. A dummy corp attacking just to lose will be instantly down 20M isk. How long can anyone keep up throwing 20M isk around every day just to keep a district locked? 20 million for the starter pack. 5 million if you kill all 100 clones and let none get wasted in the MCC. The final 6 mil comes from the district producing at max cap 60 extra clones, cause if it lost the fight, it would lose those clones and the dummy corp is preventing the district from losing. Total net lose. 20 - 5 - 6 = 9. EDIT: Note this scenario could be used to protect a money farm located behind the district being locked and/or delay while reinforcements showed up. And then they target another district on the planet instead for the same price because there aren't any real "bottlenecks" as such in the way you're thinking. Or someone else attacks one of your other districts. Or you realise that you didn't have your full clone count for the district yet and that 6 million you're earning back doesn't count. Or you realise that there's no efficient method of transferring that money between Corps so while your Alliance as a whole isn't losing money, the "defender" Corp is.
Ok, there are some bottlenecks, so a planet with 5 districts would lose 45 mil isk a day, but could be protecting a 25 district planet, so the costs could be worth it. Also, a big corp could make 45 million in a day easy through instant battle matches..
As for transferring funds, its easy. Give 20 million to a corp mate through the give money from the corp menu, and then have that guy leave and join the other corp. Once he is there, he gives the money through donate, and heads back to the main corp to get more money for the next day.
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Shadowswipe
WarRavens
22
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Posted - 2013.03.15 21:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Shadowswipe wrote:
Ok, there are some bottlenecks, so a planet with 5 districts would lose 45 mil isk a day, but could be protecting a 25 district planet, so the costs could be worth it. Also, a big corp could make 45 million in a day easy through instant battle matches..
As for transferring funds, its easy. Give 20 million to a corp mate through the give money from the corp menu, and then have that guy leave and join the other corp. Once he is there, he gives the money through donate, and heads back to the main corp to get more money for the next day.
If a corp has no district, it can buy 100 clones and attack absolutely anywhere it wants, thus circumventing any potential bottlenecks.
Except if its another decent sized corp that doesn't feel right about making a dummy corp and moving members. They are stuck going through the bottleneck. I for one will never leave my corp. But I would pay isk to another corp to cause havoc on the back lines of said corp. But I would prefer to do the dirty work myself. |
Shadowswipe
WarRavens
22
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Posted - 2013.03.15 21:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Shadowswipe wrote:20 million for the starter pack. 5 million if you kill all 100 clones and let none get wasted in the MCC. The final 6 mil comes from the district producing at max cap 60 extra clones, cause if it lost the fight, it would lose those clones and the dummy corp is preventing the district from losing. Total net lose. 20 - 5 - 6 = 9.
EDIT: Note this scenario could be used to protect a money farm located behind the district being locked and/or delay while reinforcements showed up. In fact it's actually a 7 million net lost isn't it? 5 million from winning + 6 million from the production of 60 clones + 2 million due to 20% of the attacker's clones being transferred to the defender = 13 million.
Nope, the 20% is only for the close left in the MCC when it dies. So 20% of 0 since you want full mitigation, you want to lose all 100 on the field and not in the MCC.
Django:
As for the first few weeks or months, I don't care about short term, I am a Duster for life. It could also happen on a small scale though, where one strong isk corp denies a large corp that one last district to complete a planet and move on. Instead they stuck trying to kill a small corp they could easily take out if not for a the loophole of attackers right to launch another attack back to back to back. Theoretically, a bunch of small corps could work together to do this to a large corp and the large corp could never fight back. Unless the small corps run out of money, but 9 mil, like I said before, is nothing for a decent corp to pull down in a day if they really wanted to. |
Shadowswipe
WarRavens
22
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Posted - 2013.03.15 23:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
What happens if PSN goes down during a combat window, but not DUST 514?
I could see this happening and messing up lots of plans and timing. Maybe some get in before PSN goes down, but not kicked out of game, and get to attack a district without the defenders being able to log in to put up a fight. |
Shadowswipe
WarRavens
22
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Posted - 2013.03.15 23:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Shadowswipe wrote:What happens if PSN goes down during a combat window, but not DUST 514?
I could see this happening and messing up lots of plans and timing. Maybe some get in before PSN goes down, but not kicked out of game, and get to attack a district without the defenders being able to log in to put up a fight. Yeah, this could be an issue. Also how about extended downtimes too?
Extended down times hopefully will fit into the 2 hours they have blocked out for. Their words, too lazy to find it in this monster 30+ page thread. :)
If it goes over 2 hours... who knows. |
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