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Gunner Nightingale
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Posted - 2013.03.14 18:48:00 -
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Icy Tiger wrote:Worth it. This will be so bad ass. Now we need an ETA.
LATERGäó |
Gunner Nightingale
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:42:00 -
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CCP Nullarbor wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:The defenders get access to all of the clones on their district. Whether they choose to use them all up is up to them If a defender chooses to hold some clones back and loses then what happens? The attacker wins the district but what happens to the reserved clones? The defender loses at least 100 clones regardless of how many they consumed. The remaining stay at the district and the attacker can launch another attack if they wish.
When you say they can launch another attack, does that battle commence immediately or does it take place again 24 hours later?
Edit- Also with the squad count going up to 6 will the WP requirement for PS/OB still remain 2500 or will it be increased? |
Gunner Nightingale
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:46:00 -
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Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Would it be possible to implement a way for one to abandon our district if we only own 1 district and take our 100 clones back to roam space? Awww, have a little pride, Kain! Your enemies will think you lack confidence in your men. I mean I know there's a lot of chest-puffing going on in Imperfects but you're not THAT terrible.
Fool if i was allowed to comment on the nature of these questions you'd **** yourself at the thought of what they would allows us to do. As it is like every other fool that dreams of being the next caeser, napolean, or kahn you lack the vision to see the bigger metagame.
In the battle of wits against the IMPS you arrive to the fight unarmed and outgunned in every way imaginable. |
Gunner Nightingale
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Posted - 2013.03.14 20:57:00 -
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I know others have shot down the dummy corp idea for holding a district indefinitely given the isk cost but once EVE isk can come into play that can easily be overcome at current isk rates.
So again there needs to be some safeguard beyond ISK to prevent dummycorp to attack valuable districts, if done properly keep the dummy corps to hold no districts, buy 100 clones attack most lucrative districts and keep them perputally engaged in combat 20million isk is nothing to make that happen. |
Gunner Nightingale
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Posted - 2013.03.15 19:23:00 -
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My main question is on ISK payout
The wiki say the biomass value of damaged clones is 50K and with a minimum 100 clone loss regardless of true clone loss means 5 Million ISK payout to winning team? Is that number correct (will fitting cost of the clones lost also be factored in or will that be apart of the salvage portion?)
Additionally
So this is the layout im trying to understand.
Currently its skirmish 2.0 correct?
Also when you face a district the attackers have x clones to use and the defenders have a max of 300-450 or less depending on how many clones are set on the district correct?
So the battle hud would show
Health from Attacker MCC and Defender MCC. The attackers would have x clones and Defenders would have Y clone(= to the number on district left up to a max of 450)
So in theory if a defender is foolish enough keep respawning we could in theory flip the district in one battle by cloning out all 450 clones before we destroy the MCC correct?
granted this would be very foolish of the defenders to allow for this.
However i think skirmish 1.0 would be perfect for allowing single attack flips while giving a strategic defense to defenders by having multiple null cannons console that have to be deactivated by attackers.
I think the win conditions could be destroy MCC/clone enemy for defenders or get cloned for attackers but make it so there is a timer limit on the match 60mins in which if the defender hasnt repelled the invasion it result in a victory for the attackers (however then it may be worth considering uping the numbers for defenders because its not hard to maintain a corp KDR of >4.5 and wipe out the clones before MCC gets wiped out.
It would obviously necessitate tweaks but it allows for single district flips but require a lot more fortification for the defense so that attrition can occur due player skill a very important aspect of flipping districts in a single attack. While corps with large player bases will still be able to control large district territories and reenforce.(assuming you allow for reenforcements despite an attack condition to protect them)
Basically large player corp can funnel a ton of clones and try to win the fight by attrition by maintaining a large clone count during real time while a small skilled corp can commit forces and try to flip a district through player skill and control. But this scenario only works in skirmish 1.0 where there isnt a constant attack on the attacker MCC by the defender MCC.
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Gunner Nightingale
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:04:00 -
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Also previously you noted that a corp that owns no districts will sell back remaining clones back to genolution at a cost of 100K ISK.
It seems they are better business men then we thought.
No in seriousness why 100K: thats the sale value of a clone generated from a district. I understand that this may serve as a check on a corp from attacking anywhere they want but they are limited already because they own no districts.
I think if you allow the resale value of clones sold back after a battle can be a bit higher under the condition that the corp doing so has no districts since thats the only condition where a sale would occur following battle as all other conditions would result in a return to district and if the district being returned to has max clones then the district will auto sell which would allow for the 100k sale price.
TL:DR: Why cant unused clones that are sold back be a higher ISK sale price for a corp that owns no districts since its a one off scenario, it also makes hiring/using merc corps more econimically feasible.
Also could you answer the first part of this and if able to comment on the second part please?
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=620517#post620517
Thanks. |
Gunner Nightingale
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Posted - 2013.03.16 00:50:00 -
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Shadowswipe wrote:Django Quik wrote:Shadowswipe wrote:What happens if PSN goes down during a combat window, but not DUST 514?
I could see this happening and messing up lots of plans and timing. Maybe some get in before PSN goes down, but not kicked out of game, and get to attack a district without the defenders being able to log in to put up a fight. Yeah, this could be an issue. Also how about extended downtimes too? Extended down times hopefully will fit into the 2 hours they have blocked out for. Their words, too lazy to find it in this monster 30+ page thread. :) If it goes over 2 hours... who knows.
Smart play for CCP is to simply disable the system during those extended periods to keep it fair
Though i rarely see downtimes go longer than 24 hours which means at most a district is vulnerable to 100 clone loss at most/day psn network is down. |
Gunner Nightingale
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Posted - 2013.03.16 14:37:00 -
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trollsroyce wrote:I don't think the constant attack is actually related to the subject of split expand. Surely it makes expansion hard. Splitting makes it easier but won't ultimately allow you to hold any more (I never claimed this). What I claim is that split expand is a fast shortcut to your maximum districts.
The reason it makes expanding easy is that the expander corp will not need to waste clones on attack.
EDIT: I'm sorry for the unclear discussion, the potential of splitting is just getting clearer while at it. Right now what I see happening is: 1) corp splits based on how many fights they can sustain merc number wise. E.g. having 64 active every day at your defense frame allows 4 districts. 2) corp takes said 4 to start with, possibly more to narrow down the chances of failure and to get 4 good starts. 3) one of the 4, the main corp, expands to the pre defended districts by yielding fights on alt corps.
Gains as opposed to going 1 corp "as supposed": GÇó fighting no show, one fight district flips as opposed to 300 clone districts with reinforcements that fight back. this for all your expansions, since they were pre taken and defended as individual corps GÇó any spare clones on the alt corps can be used to counter attack (clone wars) GÇó you can put more of your mercs in nullsec fights, providing content GÇó if one of the starts fails, hop on another instead of trying to restart with pitiful 100 clones
Losses as opposed to 1 corp: GÇó costs isk to set up GÇó is tedious to manage GÇó requires planning
The outposts mechanic could make this less tedious and public, widely used as opposed to shady try hard game. Still the issue of attack spam by making satellite 100 cloners and dropping them on distant enemies exists. You can do that by alt corps currently; outposts would be more expensive in isk, less on metagame and alt creation.
If you're a large corp with large numbers you are NOT limited from the INITIAL LAND GRAB.
It's just logistically more complicated to pull off. But it is 100% doable. In fact ive worked out the logistics to make it happen. Obviously im keeping mum on how to do it but honestly the whole catering to small vs large corp is nonsense.
It caters to small corps on the initial land grab because it puts all corps on equal footing. Large corps suffer on the initial land grab as a single entitiy. Splitting is the answer and then knowing how to stabliize that over the next few days is entirely your logistical issue but entirely doable.
Im not trolling you but im just saying you cant ask CCP to allow you to grab as much land as you want on DAY 1. But they have given you a back door to do so but with the sheer numbers a large corp has if you properly plan the DAY 1 logistics you can execute a massive land grab.
It is entirely logistically possible to make a large day 1 land grab. The tools are all in place, its just up to you to make the logistics happen. |
Gunner Nightingale
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Posted - 2013.03.16 15:22:00 -
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It isn't an exploit by any means, all the info to do this has been postulated and confirmed by foxfour that it is doable but likely to result in ISK loss, but thats the point of any sort of business model theres an initial cost and ledgers get balanced over time.
Corp splitting is part of the answer, fox four said it thats something a corp can choose to do.
How to then consolidate is entirely up to the the corp, it is doable but logistically a lot of planning and effort. I see the big picture and know it can be done,
How much it will cost is a different story. I wont even go any further ive given more than i should. Seriously this is the metagame part of the game and i shouldnt have to and wont tell anyone how to logistically accomplish this thats not my problem.
All ill say is reread the wiki and the dev posts, all the info and the postulations are there. Do the homework and crunch numbers beyond that splitting corps is not an exploit and structurally completely doable, but as everything CCP its going to be player driven they have given us the basic foundations to make it happen within the game.
/c |
Gunner Nightingale
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Posted - 2013.03.16 15:27:00 -
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Django Quik wrote:You can't just say 'I know how this exploit could work but I'm not telling any of you' and claim something needs to be fixed or addressed. I thought this was supposed to be a constructive debate?
I'm still solidly of the opinion that you will never have the opportunity to consolidate either as a single big corp or multiple small corps because your districts will rarely if ever have the peace required to expand. Your sub corps will look small and weak, making them targets. Your main corp will be the target of larger corps who want to take you out of the picture early on. Mid-sized corps that try to fly under the radar may fair okay but with the corps:districts ratio so high nobody will be safe, especially early on. Who knows what might happen after everything settles down a few months later.
Edit--That kind of the point it becomes boring if day 1 eveyone just plants a flag and peace and stability is achieved. Who the wants that? Every corp right now is planning their strategies but at the end of the day war is coming and peace and stability will have to be earned not given. I for one can't wait for the conflict to begin, damnit CCP hurry up ive got ppl on my hit list. |
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