Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 189 post(s) |
R F Gyro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
318
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:38:00 -
[391] - Quote
If you move 100 clones to attack a district on a planet 2 jumps away, but only 60 survive the travel, then you lose the battle, what happens? You are supposed to lose a minimum of 100 clones.
Do you only lose the 60 surviving ones?
Or does the attacker need to send enough clones to ensure that at least 100 arrive safely?
Sorry if this has been answered already. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
210
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:39:00 -
[392] - Quote
Excellent!
Thanks for shooting down the sidetrack on 1 clone rushing. It was a waste of thought.
The core issue I'm concerned about is still exponential growth: the only thing that matters is controlling a lot of districts. These generate more clones, allowing you to attack and defend more. This leads to the whole thing being a numbers game.
There needs to be massive value in controlling key planets, something that excellent small groups can do. A specific resource, or an empire wide boost prehaps. E.g. empire wide clone deployment speed boosting district, empire wide clone storage boost etc. Prehaps only as little as 5% per district, and rentable.
In addition to the previous, empires need to have a diminishing returns from controlling lots of stuff. Prehaps skillpoint modulated for director char.
I'm not giving this much thought as you can spot, keep shooting them down and taking them over. As is, the equal district system promotes exponential growth and numbers over strategic control. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
210
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:41:00 -
[393] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:If you move 100 clones to attack a district on a planet 2 jumps away, but only 60 survive the travel, then you lose the battle, what happens? You are supposed to lose a minimum of 100 clones.
Do you only lose the 60 surviving ones?
Or does the attacker need to send enough clones to ensure that at least 100 arrive safely?
Sorry if this has been answered already.
The 100 are lost: some to casuality from travel. |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
1790
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:41:00 -
[394] - Quote
Hey guys sorry about the slacking in response to the thread. I am back in the office and will be responding to posts now. Since I am so far behind though I am probably going to work backwards from this point, so sorry if I miss your question. |
|
dust badger
BetaMax. CRONOS.
289
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:42:00 -
[395] - Quote
it states if you loose you get no isk
But what about loot ?
|
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
420
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:42:00 -
[396] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:If you move 100 clones to attack a district on a planet 2 jumps away, but only 60 survive the travel, then you lose the battle, what happens? You are supposed to lose a minimum of 100 clones.
Do you only lose the 60 surviving ones?
Or does the attacker need to send enough clones to ensure that at least 100 arrive safely?
Sorry if this has been answered already. I think this was answered already (sorry, can't be bothered to look through the thread for the quote ).
You just need to move 100 clones, no matter how many make it to the fight. So you can show up to a district with only 20 clones for example. If you lose you would actually have lost 100 in total (80 by the move and 20 in the match). |
R F Gyro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
318
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:43:00 -
[397] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:PRO will lose Are you suggesting that PRO won't be able to field any teams that are capable of beating any other corp? That sounds unlikely.
They may need a few starts to make it happen, but eventually they'll win a couple, and once their ball starts rolling their size will become more and more of a factor.
|
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
210
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:44:00 -
[398] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:trollsroyce wrote:You see, if there was accumulative value in keeping planets long, small groups would have their place in holding very valuable ones. Now the corps with more players grow exponentially and there is no reason to care about which planets you own - just use the clone numbers and player number advantage to spam attack weaklings. There are only about 250 districts to start with, so I don't see how a corp like PRO will hold many districts. They will take one to start with (if they're quick enough that is, 250 other corps might take all the districts before them). After that 3 things can happen. 1. PRO doesn't attack anyone and nobody attacks them. Very unlikely. 2. PRO attacks someone with their 100 clones (that's all they have to begin with). The defender also have 100 clones. PRO will lose. They don't get the district and they lost all of their clones, so their own district is practically up for grabs. 3. PRO doesn't attack anyone, but is being attacked themself. Both sides have again 100 clones each. PRO will lose the match and the district as well. If 2 or 3 happens PRO is left without districts and will have to attack someone buying a pack of 100 clones. They will not win any attack they make, so they will have to take out more than 40 of the defender's clones (or more than 60 if the defender has the SI that produces 60 clones each day) because when they lose the defender will produce 40 clones more for the attack from PRO the next day. If they only take out 30 clones the defender will have 10 clones more than in the first match. In a 16 vs 16 battle I can see a lot of corps winning over PRO without losing more than 40 clones. How will PRO ever get any districts then?
Thanks for the 250 district clarification. I missed that one, and this changes the picture. The core issue with exponential growth, because of planet equality and just general interest to capture more, is still there. Diminishing returns?
Exponential growth leads to the only solution being numbers, and clickfest, if all planets are equal. This is with small amount of planets as well as big amount, though small keeps it capped to skill levels in keeping clones more. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
210
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:45:00 -
[399] - Quote
dust badger wrote:it states if you loose you get no isk
But what about loot ?
Salvage should go to the winner, the one left on field. It's generated from the items equipped with a twist of adding stuff, from what I read quickly. |
dust badger
BetaMax. CRONOS.
289
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:48:00 -
[400] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:dust badger wrote:it states if you loose you get no isk
But what about loot ?
Salvage should go to the winner, the one left on field. It's generated from the items equipped with a twist of adding stuff, from what I read quickly.
yeah i thought it would just wanted clarification hopefully FoxFour will get to it |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
1791
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:50:00 -
[401] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:R F Gyro wrote:If you move 100 clones to attack a district on a planet 2 jumps away, but only 60 survive the travel, then you lose the battle, what happens? You are supposed to lose a minimum of 100 clones.
Do you only lose the 60 surviving ones?
Or does the attacker need to send enough clones to ensure that at least 100 arrive safely?
Sorry if this has been answered already. The 100 are lost: some to casuality from travel.
If you send 100, 60 make it to the planet, then you lose the battle you lose all 60. In the end our goal of ensuring a minimum of 100 clones lost is met, so we will not enforce 100 clones making it to the planet. |
|
5Y5T3M 3RR0R
The Southern Legion
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:54:00 -
[402] - Quote
What I just want to confirm is:
If I get one spy into another corp he could pull in 5 other guys for my side and because of friendly fire make it essentially 22 vs 10 and any kills they got on my 'commandos' would come out of their pocket?
This is going to be a murder fest :) |
Axirts
Misfits of Mayhem
31
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:55:00 -
[403] - Quote
Tried to read the whole thread and I didn't see it here or the wiki pages but I may have just missed it:
Conquest will be in the next build. Will we be notified long before the update or will it be more of a "Extended server downtime, oh also expect to download this giant update." |
R F Gyro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
318
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:57:00 -
[404] - Quote
Here's a question for the leaders of the larger corps with a global (RL multi-timezone) presence...
Will you set your districts to always defend at the time your corp is strongest, or will you spread them out?
If you spread them out then you'll often be fighting without your strongest team. If you always set them to the same time, your strongest team will risk burnout and the other timezones risk withering away as they feel they aren't contributing.
|
R F Gyro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
318
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:57:00 -
[405] - Quote
5Y5T3M 3RR0R wrote:What I just want to confirm is:
If I get one spy into another corp he could pull in 5 other guys for my side and because of friendly fire make it essentially 22 vs 10 and any kills they got on my 'commandos' would come out of their pocket?
This is going to be a murder fest :) Welcome to New Eden |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
1791
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:57:00 -
[406] - Quote
dust badger wrote:trollsroyce wrote:dust badger wrote:it states if you loose you get no isk
But what about loot ?
Salvage should go to the winner, the one left on field. It's generated from the items equipped with a twist of adding stuff, from what I read quickly. yeah i thought it would just wanted clarification hopefully FoxFour will get to it
ISK goes to the winning side based on the total number of clones killed in the match. Loot goes to both sides. Side A gets stuff from side B, side B gets stuff from side A.
We discussed this a lot internally, which one of the two rewards should only go to the winner, and we ended up with ISK going to the winner. We really want one of the two to go to the loser as incentive to show up and fight even if they know they are going to lose. |
|
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
210
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:59:00 -
[407] - Quote
5Y5T3M 3RR0R wrote:What I just want to confirm is:
If I get one spy into another corp he could pull in 5 other guys for my side and because of friendly fire make it essentially 22 vs 10 and any kills they got on my 'commandos' would come out of their pocket?
This is going to be a murder fest :)
Don't need a dev to confirm this, it follows from the mechanics and is wholly accepted in New Eden. It won't make sense burning spies over districts, though. Possibly over lots of them by the insurgence stirring like you mentioned, but still probably not worth it. Doing the social engineering for what you describe would take you near to doing the engineering to kill a corporation from the inside: getting 5 on your side will have nasty internal struggles started, and soon more will follow or just quit. |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
1792
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:59:00 -
[408] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:5Y5T3M 3RR0R wrote:What I just want to confirm is:
If I get one spy into another corp he could pull in 5 other guys for my side and because of friendly fire make it essentially 22 vs 10 and any kills they got on my 'commandos' would come out of their pocket?
This is going to be a murder fest :) Welcome to New Eden
Not included in the release with this feature, but something we want to do is create a new role that allows people to kick other people from matches. So without giving people full director roles you can select people you trust and let them sort of help control matches.
For this release though, yes that is very much a possibility. |
|
dust badger
BetaMax. CRONOS.
289
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:00:00 -
[409] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:dust badger wrote:trollsroyce wrote:dust badger wrote:it states if you loose you get no isk
But what about loot ?
Salvage should go to the winner, the one left on field. It's generated from the items equipped with a twist of adding stuff, from what I read quickly. yeah i thought it would just wanted clarification hopefully FoxFour will get to it ISK goes to the winning side based on the total number of clones killed in the match. Loot goes to both sides. Side A gets stuff from side B, side B gets stuff from side A. We discussed this a lot internally, which one of the two rewards should only go to the winner, and we ended up with ISK going to the winner. We really want one of the two to go to the loser as incentive to show up and fight even if they know they are going to lose.
Cheers man |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
1792
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:00:00 -
[410] - Quote
Axirts wrote:Tried to read the whole thread and I didn't see it here or the wiki pages but I may have just missed it:
Conquest will be in the next build. Will we be notified long before the update or will it be more of a "Extended server downtime, oh also expect to download this giant update."
Trust me, you will know. We will be making a very large fuss about this release, talking about it at Fanfest, and it will involve an extended downtime. So long as you follow dev blogs, the forums, twitter, or Facebook you will know. |
|
|
R F Gyro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
318
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:00:00 -
[411] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:If you send 100, 60 make it to the planet, then you lose the battle you lose all 60. In the end our goal of ensuring a minimum of 100 clones lost is met, so we will not enforce 100 clones making it to the planet. Thanks for the clarification.
I can see the corps with better KDRs specialising in long range attacks: only 20 clones arrive safely to fight the 100+ defenders, but that is enough to do the job. Larger corps with lower KDRs would specialise in short range attacks. Room for everyone.
|
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
210
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:01:00 -
[412] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:dust badger wrote:trollsroyce wrote:dust badger wrote:it states if you loose you get no isk
But what about loot ?
Salvage should go to the winner, the one left on field. It's generated from the items equipped with a twist of adding stuff, from what I read quickly. yeah i thought it would just wanted clarification hopefully FoxFour will get to it ISK goes to the winning side based on the total number of clones killed in the match. Loot goes to both sides. Side A gets stuff from side B, side B gets stuff from side A. We discussed this a lot internally, which one of the two rewards should only go to the winner, and we ended up with ISK going to the winner. We really want one of the two to go to the loser as incentive to show up and fight even if they know they are going to lose.
The salvage dev blog along with current suggests that it's all added in a pool and divided to players standing on field to me; good clarification and thanks for that :)
(makes more BPO fits) |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion
27
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:03:00 -
[413] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys sorry about the slacking in response to the thread. I am back in the office and will be responding to posts now. Since I am so far behind though I am probably going to work backwards from this point, so sorry if I miss your question.
Please don't miss mine, then :) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=618829#post618829 |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
210
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:04:00 -
[414] - Quote
Can I get short clarification on the worth of specific planets, or how to combat exponential growth?
Since the ISK generator mechanics is equal to districts, it only makes sense to try and control as many of possible, instead of strategic ones (except for locations). In EVE, you have moon minerals that make locations worth defending over others. Is there a mechanic in place to make for strategic conquest, e.g. bottleneck systems allowing access to attack a region? |
Citpaan Hacos
BetaMax. CRONOS.
25
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:08:00 -
[415] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:We will be making a very large fuss about this release, talking about it at Fanfest, and it will involve an extended downtime.
So, patch confirmed for after Fanfest! XP |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
1793
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:11:00 -
[416] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:Can I get short clarification on the worth of specific planets, or how to combat exponential growth?
Since the ISK generator mechanics is equal to districts, it only makes sense to try and control as many of possible, instead of strategic ones (except for locations). In EVE, you have moon minerals that make locations worth defending over others. Is there a mechanic in place to make for strategic conquest, e.g. bottleneck systems allowing access to attack a region?
Different planets will have different numbers of districts, some systems will be right next to other systems with temperate planets, some systems will only have 1 temperate planet and be behind 2 or more systems with no temperate planets; which means to attack you from outside the system people needed to travel more systems which means more attrition. |
|
5Y5T3M 3RR0R
The Southern Legion
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:12:00 -
[417] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:R F Gyro wrote:5Y5T3M 3RR0R wrote:What I just want to confirm is:
If I get one spy into another corp he could pull in 5 other guys for my side and because of friendly fire make it essentially 22 vs 10 and any kills they got on my 'commandos' would come out of their pocket?
This is going to be a murder fest :) Welcome to New Eden Not included in the release with this feature, but something we want to do is create a new role that allows people to kick other people from matches. So without giving people full director roles you can select people you trust and let them sort of help control matches. For this release though, yes that is very much a possibility.
I'm quite fine for that, it makes trust and loyalty a lot more important in game!!
Anyone want to employ any ex-southern Legion into their corp ??
I'm sure we have a few spare... |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
210
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:12:00 -
[418] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:If you send 100, 60 make it to the planet, then you lose the battle you lose all 60. In the end our goal of ensuring a minimum of 100 clones lost is met, so we will not enforce 100 clones making it to the planet. Thanks for the clarification. I can see the corps with better KDRs specialising in long range attacks: only 20 clones arrive safely to fight the 100+ defenders, but that is enough to do the job. Larger corps with lower KDRs would specialise in short range attacks. Room for everyone.
This is particularly awesome, as the good outfits can be hired to flip a projection district deep behind enemy lines, allowing attacks on multiple planets. A mechanic that helps combat the inevitable blob conquest by making big empires have a small weakness internally, asides from constant frontier struggles.
Still I think strategic resources are needed. Hoping the EVE link will be a PI boosting one, or even a moon mineral yield boosting one. This would make it worth defending a particular district to the last man, instead of just taking one from some weaklings to replace the lost one. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
210
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:13:00 -
[419] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Can I get short clarification on the worth of specific planets, or how to combat exponential growth?
Since the ISK generator mechanics is equal to districts, it only makes sense to try and control as many of possible, instead of strategic ones (except for locations). In EVE, you have moon minerals that make locations worth defending over others. Is there a mechanic in place to make for strategic conquest, e.g. bottleneck systems allowing access to attack a region? Different planets will have different numbers of districts, some systems will be right next to other systems with temperate planets, some systems will only have 1 temperate planet and be behind 2 or more systems with no temperate planets; which means to attack you from outside the system people needed to travel more systems which means more attrition.
Thanks! Now fingers crossed for a moon mineral yield booster structure to make some planets really coveted :) |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
260
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:13:00 -
[420] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:If you send 100, 60 make it to the planet, then you lose the battle you lose all 60. In the end our goal of ensuring a minimum of 100 clones lost is met, so we will not enforce 100 clones making it to the planet. Thanks for the clarification. I can see the corps with better KDRs specialising in long range attacks: only 20 clones arrive safely to fight the 100+ defenders, but that is enough to do the job. Larger corps with lower KDRs would specialise in short range attacks. Room for everyone.
I'm sure I read somewhere that you can take up to 300 clones for an attack. Also, you don't have to go 2 jumps for an attack. You could just attack districts on the same planet and take 100% of your clones. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |