I use AR's primarily, and AR's are fine. Its not a bad thing that AR's are no longer unbeatable, its ok for other weapons to be as good. Just get use to it, and it will be eventually be just fine. I actually find AR's more fun now, and I have been doing much better than before.

I use AR's primarily, and AR's are fine. Its not a bad thing that AR's are no longer unbeatable, its ok for other weapons to be as good. Just get use to it, and it will be eventually be just fine. I actually find AR's more fun now, and I have been doing much better than before.

Actually Heavies are supposed to win a 1v1 match (to my knowledge), it should be the case that multiple people have to band together to take one heavy down not the other way around.
Of course there are things like maneuverability that might allow a single person to outsmart bull. .. i mean, a heavy in 1v1. But if you have an open field and a heavy on one side and 2-4 not heavies on the other side (all with equal equipment levels), then the heavy should win by mowing the group down in a matter of seconds.
Thats the most enjoyable part about encountering heavies. Distracting them without getting yourself killed, so that another player can flank him from the side / behind and deal massive damage.

About AR themself:
I have seen people playing perfectly fine without AR's. There are too many different weapon types to say "This one and single type of weapon is THE ONE TYPE of weapon the whole game is centered around"

And to be slightly trolling at the end:
You want to play "every other game?" You are free to play CoD.

Edit:
*shivering at the thought that quick scoping is THE WAY to play sniper*

to me ARs are not balanced at all did you not read the print where CCP said that recoil increased with the more damage you took? that was said a long time ago. Sure some of you think ARs are "balanced" but they only seem that way cuz they decreased the map sizes and made them more "COD" like. im fearing when they increase map sizes even more than the way they were b4, weapons like mass drivers and laser rifles and of course snipers will be the go to

I also doing better than before with AR (Exile AR). This make me wonder about raise of complains on AR.

I also don't agree with OP that we should have one weapon which is good in all situations. Each weapon should have their strengths and weakness. It looks so better when battlefield is filled with ARs, LRs, MDs, HMGs and shotguns. It's much better than ARs everywhere.

they were always beatable, Marton's laser rifles killed the crap out of me, Blondie's HMG wrecked me, Sleepy's snipers gave me a hard time. people just need to practice more

they were always beatable, Marton's laser rifles killed the crap out of me, Blondie's HMG wrecked me, Sleepy's snipers gave me a hard time. people just need to practice more

I read all the patch notes. I've used ARs from Replication as my 'MAIN' weapon. All the variants, etc... ARs are better and more balanced. The maps are actually bigger on some, and you can be outranged wielding an AR, so your map size issue is mute.

Snipers will always be a factor on large, flat maps... Mass Drivers are best if you have them in narrow corridors. In the open, dodging Mass Driver Charges is easy... haven't been killed by a Mass Driver this build yet while in the open. Conversly, if I hug walls and use cover, I haven't been sniped. Still wield my trusty AR, and still get Positive KDR... and can even hit at range... Just can't empty an entire clip on that one single point.

Tactical ARs were hit hardest by the recoil, I agree, but they now can't be abused by modded controllers. And still do a fair amount of damage. Now, hoever, the increase headshot modifier is your best friend with the tactical. Tap their head, they go down fast. Beofre you could triple tap they're leg and kill them with a tactical in a scarce few seconds.

no the maps are alot smaller im sorry, they shrunk every map to make the ARs work better with their nerf. and MDs are the new weapons of choice i just spec in my first few this morning and they are beast at killing any and everything including vehicles, you havnt seen them used by good players just wait

well if the heavies were intended to win every 1v1 then why dont we all just play heavies? that sounds like the best way to play this game right? im sorry but i dont think they were intended to 1v1 and 1v4 by themselve thats too easy

G-Slick,

My personal opinion is as follows and is by no means fact.

1.) Close Support is MY job along with all my Logi Brothers. The Heavy Dropsuit was designed to wade into a group of unfriendly players and deliver judgment upon them. An assault dropsuit should not be able to drop a Heavy at Mid-Range in a one vs. one fight unless there are some other gameplay aspects that weigh into the encounter (such as flanking, elevation, and fit.). It's my personal average that a Heavy should be able to get the drop on and take around 3 people if they are good. 4-5 if they have support. If a Heavy wades into a group of people looking at him and proceeds to walk into open ground he will not survive. He may get 2 kills but he won't get the third unless the enemies he's attacking can't aim for kitten.

2.) Laser Rifle's were good against everything at long range. Assault Rifles and Sniper Rifles were it's only competition but that's not what the nerf was about. Like i said in another post, the Assault Rifle was the easiest weapon to use with no recoil and ungodly accuracy. It's the Jack of all trades weapon but it bested everything it came up against save a rare few. And against those rare few, it was easy to turn the tables by entering the range at which they could not.

3.) Hill Snipers exist in every game, and if they don't move they get shot. That is still the case with every weapon and i STILL do it with my Assault rifle with the only difference being that i have to get closer now, and that may require me to go a bit out of my way. I once fired 3 Mass Driver payloads at a Hill Sniper in rapid succession and all three landed while he was trying to shoot at me, and they killed him before he had a chance to get up and move to a new location. Hill Snipers will pay for not moving one way or another. The range at which an Assault Rifle could hit a Sniper was insane. no other weapon could compare.

4.)They are not god weapons. They are difficult to aim, useless in some situations, have bullet travel time, and CAN GET YOU KILLED IF YOU KITTEN UP! Before, Mass Drivers had 4 shots to a clip in standard versions and it required ALL 4 shots to hit in order to kill somebody. A one on one fight with a Mass Driver user was over if they missed once and the only way to use them effectively was in large groups. The only thing the bigger clipsize did was make them more viable as a weapon when alone. It's hardly a God Weapon.

I agree Completely that CCP messed up on the AR nerf. They needed a kick, but with the current damage and way sights work it's all just a mess. It's my personal belief that:

-They decrease the damage on Basic Assault Rifles, while giving them more kick and giving less kick as you move up.

-They slightly increase Damage on Burst Rifles while slightly lowering Kick

-Don't think anyone cares about Breach Variants

-Remove Kick from Tactical Rifles, while giving them a slightly lower rate of fire.

Thoughts?

this ^^^
I have seen you play this build your good, very good.
and I'm sorry but yea TAR need recoil otherwise someone who has a fast index finger (Because its not like shooting a real SA rifle) can have a STD AR that does the damage of a ADV etc.

get used to the changes man

Another "my dust is no longer generic AR fest" thread? sure, go ahead. seems it is too hard to actually try to learn the game... or god forbid try different weapons or variants.

i have tried plenty of weapons man i have been playing this game longer than you have ARs were fine every build till now. When you people got into the game you thought it needed a nerf. and now im using MDs and burst u happy?

Just because someone could kill you with a different weapon does not mean that weapon was as good as the 1 you used, player skill plays a large part.
Go get a calculator, do do DPS stats, and damage per magazine stats with the AR and other weapons. I did the math for the mass driver compared to the AR, and the AR beat the mass driver by a lot, plus the mass driver takes more skill to use because of the arc; the MD magazine size buff was warranted.
Before the AR could encroach upon the laser rifle's long range niche because of its similar range, but now it takes skill for AR users need skill to pull off long range kills.

There is a reason why ARs were used so much before; they were good at close, medium, and long range (with sharpshooter skills). Its a good thing that they aren't so perfect anymore. Just because its an FPS doesn't mean it should be a generic AR-fest.

listen i agree ARs could use a small recoil but they didnt have to add, recoil, damage nerf, iron sights only all at the same time

ARs are way better now. I feel rewarded for actually being a good AR user when i see now how i get a lot more killed by players that just full-auto while running at me at 35m distance..... Stop being mad.

And the damage nerf is for every weapon in the game. You're whining just like HMG user are whining.... Both weapons are now as fine as ever.

LR being the king at long range against AR ? Where's the big surprise ?
When the tac rifle will actually be fixed you'll a kind of counter, but never as effective as the LR.. Lower RoF (around half the current Rof) Lower recoil as the current one is just crazy making it useless at long range (isnt that the whole point of the weapon ? long range ? ).

MDs are slightly annoying at short range that i agree with. Jumping around firing at the ground shouldnt be rewarded. But at mid-long range. MD requires skill.

Anyway, take it like a man.

Actually The Southern Legion has some of the best MD users on the Asia Servers in it.. and they're up there on US and EU servers too... you CAN dodge MD blasts in the open due to the travel time. You CAN avoid the Lion's share of the AoE damage pretty easily. I manage that, and keep my AR trained on them usually either forcing them to take cover, or killing them.

I don't see where you got that the maps are smaller. They didn;t reduce the size of the maps... they moved some of the objectives closer together. The 'combative area' is smaller, the maps are either same size or even slightly bigger in some cases.

you people dont seem to realize that MDs will kill any AR now, they do way more damage, they have range similar to a sniper, they are easier to use than ARs. i mean every time i hit you with splash your aim gets knocked off center. ARs did need a recoil but not nerf to be worst than all the other weapons

Big assumption thinking you've been in the game longer? Replication? Pre-Replication? Could be a renamed older player... or an alt of said older player.

Have you been living in a closet for the last few builds?

When CCP change things they do it to the extreme. Just look what happened to misile turrets, massive nerf then they have rebalanced them again this build.

AR wont stay like this forever, new sights will come with probably a cost, damage values will change and recoil is fine no need to change.

Ar's just need recoil. They were too easy to use before compared to other non instant hit weapons and such.

OK before you read this i would like to apologize for my rude behavior in this post. I didnt mean to seem QQ im just fearing the death of this game.
................
I will explain for all you fags who will post i am just QQing.

no have you played the ambush maps yet? i have been playing ambush all day and they have shrunk the maps, to the point where im surprised people still snipe on ambush

ARs should be the main weapon of choice with all other weapons branched out with their different roles

You're really overdoing the hyperbole.
Do you know how much damage a AR can do from just 1 full second of firing? Standard basic AR does 387.5 damage per second.
You're seriously saying using a weapon whose shots travel in an arc that you must predict where it will land is actually easier than just bullets instantly hitting where you point your gun?
You're seriously saying ARs are worse than any other weapon? Even the nova knife which is basically an inferior closer range shotgun that you have to charge?
You seriously just compared the range of a mass driver to a sniper rifle.

Beginning your post with such obvious disingenuousness proves that you are QQing. Even if you have something unpleasant to say, you can still say it politely.

where have you been? i have tested and realized that the MDs have about a 130m range and on direct impact can do 200+ damage and it only needs three shots of splash to kill common ARs. one of the proto MDs do 350+ direct damage i think. and AR do not do that much damage in one second your lost.

Hi G-SLicK,

I see what you are saying, but I'm afraid I disagree about a number of points.

I agree that ARs should be one of the central weapons in a game, they should, in my opinion be the best medium range light weapon going, but that's all. I don't think you can say as you can't say how people should play the game.

#1. A Heavy, face to face, 1v1 should take out anyone else. An AR user should have to either out match the heavy in terms of equipment, or (preferably) out play them by using the terrain, their maneuverability and by ganging up on them.

#2. I agree, laser rifles have a different niche to ARs, and a good user should be able to take down most things at range.

#3. Snipers camping a single point are frustrating, often for both teams. I think a slight change in the map designs so that the crest of the hills is inside the red zone would help. This would better allow sniper hunters to sneak up on them and would hopefully discourage them from sticking in one point for the whole game. Otherwise, I agree that the TacAR should be one of the weapons that is usable to hunt them down. I think that it needs some recoil in place though, two shots in close succession should still hit the target except perhaps at extreme ranges, which shout be enough to drop most snipers if you headshot them, but any more than that should go astray. The TacAR shouldn't be close to matching the rpm of a normal AR no matter how quick your trigger finger is.

#4. I've not really seen many mass drivers yet, so can't comment on them.

TL:DR? I agree with OP about a couPle of points, but generally think that the new ARs are better that before.

34.1 Damage per shot

750.0 RPM

750 / 60 = 12.5 Shots per second

12.5 x 34.1 = 426.25 Damage PER SECOND

Mathematically proven.

Do you know the chances of actually hitting anyone with a mass driver at that range? You have to predict where the arc will end, and account for moving targets, the mass driver rounds are really slow.

A STANDARD basic AR (not advanced or prototype), that's right, a STANDARD AR can do 387.5 damage in ONE SECOND. That is more menacing than a prototype MD doing 350.
200+ round damage from an MD is not impressive compared to that, especially considering the extra difficulty of actually landing a direct hit.

ok? but this is dust buddy wrong subject. count in movement and people missing alot, plus MDs able to knock ARs aim off.....your not doing 426.25 damage PER SECOND

i thank you for your post, i do agree ARs are not supposed to be OP, BUT they should over nerf things like they hae done, they needed to add recoil and thats it

Tell me what other FPS shooter doesn't have ARs for main weapons.

Why has nobody answered one of the easiest questions from the OP?


Doom, Strife, Heretic, Hexen, Red Faction, Thief, Dishonored, that Star Trek: Voyager FPS I forget the name of...

There are quite a few games that don't have ARs as a "main" weapon. Some of which don't even have ARs (or any equivalent), and some of which have something that fits the functionality, but isn't a "main" weapon in any sense.

I'd list some of the survival-style mods for Fallout 3 as well, but it's arguably more RPG than shooter (it kind of works both ways), and I don't know if you'd count mods.

no the maps are alot smaller im sorry, they shrunk every map to make the ARs work better with their nerf. and MDs are the new weapons of choice i just spec in my first few this morning and they are beast at killing any and everything including vehicles, you havnt seen them used by good players just wait

im fearing when they increase map sizes even more than the way they were b4, weapons like mass drivers and laser rifles and of course snipers will be the go to

This something that worries me too...

at 130 dont even try firing a shot from an AR and please with a mass driver i almost killed and heavy with an HMG and deathfromafar from Teamplayers at the same time when they tried to team fire me. i hate you who ever was in my squad for taking my heavy kill, i got deathfromafar tho

ok im sorry i put "main" and i actually meant other online FPS i apologize

Doom, Strife, Heretic, Hexen, Red Faction, that Star Trek: Voyager FPS I forget the name of...

There are quite a few games that don't have ARs as a "main" weapon. Some of which don't even have ARs (or any equivalent), and some of which have something that fits the functionality, but isn't a "main" weapon in any sense.

Can't wait for the snipers to suffer the "skill bat" as well.

Its not a nerf, its called Balance. Somthing that was actually needed with AR's

Doom, Strife, Heretic, Hexen, Red Faction, that Star Trek: Voyager FPS I forget the name of...

There are quite a few games that don't have ARs as a "main" weapon. Some of which don't even have ARs (or any equivalent), and some of which have something that fits the functionality, but isn't a "main" weapon in any sense.

TAR is extinct now like the creodron

Any weapon in this game is good if you know how to use it and build your tactics around it.

tactic for the TAC rifle is: use long range do not to get melted by lazers and not to get in smg range to shoot people. You cant shoot people at the same ranges casue of the recoil. No creative person will ever use the gun in its current state.

FTFY.

Everyone in the post got tired of me and G-slick killing them. I don't care about normalized damage whatever. Why make the weapon impossible to use at range? especially when me and g-slick along with like 4 other people were the ONLY people to use this gun?!?!?!?! Want a nerf? Just decrease the fire rate. Like if it has to have recoil it can't have that much. The gun is extinct and no one will ever use it again.

My issue was it was being used like a standard AR which is not were it is supposed to stand on the boards as far as weapon roles go. The problem was it was better than the standard, because it even had range and damage on the AR with almost the same possible rate of fire.

I like the ARs now, makes 1v1s easier since so many ppl cant aim and relied on their gear. Dropped 2 heavies 1v2 yesterday with a gek, AR seems just fine to me.

redfaction had an AR, infact it had several variants. freakin ALL THE RED FACTIONS HAD AR'S what the h3ll?

decrease it to the credron fire rate or only slightly higher lessen the recoil a bit and i think you will have a good rifle. depending on your dude it takes 10-15 shots to take someone down i.e. no damage mods tanked out assault dudes. Recoil is dumb after 5th shot.

ok im sorry i put "main" and i actually meant other online FPS i apologize

ok tell me how would you use it?

edit: my bad your right you guys won the tournament in the game and compete against all other corps with a high margin of success.

its a gun you can only use at range that you cant use at range.

I love how you guys don't complain as CCP balances everything else, but the second they take a look at your precious weapon (which lets face it, is all you guys ever use), you're all up in arms and telling us all how terrible the change was.

What is it you tell us noobs?

Get good?

Get good.

Added bold to the part of my post where I already answered that question.

If you call ANY non-explosive weapon (except the railgun) a "main" weapon in Red Faction, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

Seems someone is a bit mad. I did just beat an imperfect in a match for K/D, was only barely edged out for WP, and I pretty much only use militia equivalent gear most of the time unlike you guys whom I see in full proto. Does that make you even madder?

Seems someone is a bit mad. I did just beat an imperfect in a match for K/D, was only barely edged out for WP, and I pretty much only use militia equivalent gear most of the time unlike you guys whom I see in full proto. Does that make you even madder?

I'd just use it at mid range. I might try to sneak around the enemy and get within mid range of them and then blast them quickly for a few shots. The recoil on AR's really isn't that bad at all, I've barely even noticed it.

this dude is so fail hard. Fallout is not a competitive online shooter. I hope you enjoy your iron sights you asked for.

Precision rifle enjoy your fail

Quick somebody call dust bloggers!

This moment of epicness must not be left out of the history books!

Doom, Strife, Heretic, Hexen, Red Faction, Thief, Dishonored, that Star Trek: Voyager FPS I forget the name of...

Precision rifle enjoy your fail

You mean this precision rifle? "The Precision Rifle can easily put down the toughest of foes with only a few shots from its EXPLOSIVE ROUNDS."

Enjoy your fail.

EDIT: Fixed quote code eating itself...

AR nerf. AR are supposed to be a central weapon.

Then the change in dmg values from standard/adv/proto is just bad and makes it worthless to use proto duvolle.

I mean its bad enough to be what the hell?

its cool when you get a kdr that is half as mine then we will talk until then you don't know how to play the game.

if you have ever played the game? It doesn't blow holes in walls, it doesn't have splash damage it is not a repeating rocket launcher. it just has bullets that hurt you real bad. In all seriousness It was that gun and the rail gun were the guns i used to clean up in redfaction. a game you never played because it doesn't have assault rifles

edit: you are also not very good at videogames so your opinion is null and void. please go back to star trek voyager.

they were always beatable, Marton's laser rifles killed the crap out of me, Blondie's HMG wrecked me, Sleepy's snipers gave me a hard time. people just need to practice more

In EVE this kind of rage at a nerf of the flavor of the month just don't happen any more.

We've realized and accepted that what you flew last year isn't going to be what you fly this year, and that is what makes the game fun. CCP has even said that they do the nerfs in the extreme to change up the landscape, and then later gradually boost the thing until it's balanced.

Adapt or die.

One day, a Buddhist monk saw an old guy fall into the river. The current was strong and there was a lot of rocks and big roots, surely he would get battered, entangled and drown. The monk was convinced he had just witnessed the death of a man.

After what seemed like a like an eternity, the old man crawled up the bank way down. The monk ran down and helped the old man, and asked; how did you survive? I was sure you would get tangled and drown.

Easily, the old man said, I just let the river take me where it wanted.

And the monk was enlightened.

In EVE this kind of rage at a nerf of the flavor of the month just don't happen any more.

We've realized and accepted that what you flew last year isn't going to be what you fly this year, and that is what makes the game fun. CCP has even said that they do the nerfs in the extreme to change up the landscape, and then later gradually boost the thing until it's balanced.

Adapt or die.

One day, a Buddhist monk saw an old guy fall into the river. The current was strong and there was a lot of rocks and big roots, surely he would get battered, entangled and drown. The monk was convinced he had just witnessed the death of a man.

After what seemed like a like an eternity, the old man crawled up the bank way down. The monk ran down and helped the old man, and asked; how did you survive? I was sure you would get tangled and drown.

Easily, the old man said, I just let the river take me where it wanted.

And the monk was enlightened.

to me ARs are not balanced at all did you not read the print where CCP said that recoil increased with the more damage you took? that was said a long time ago. Sure some of you think ARs are "balanced" but they only seem that way cuz they decreased the map sizes and made them more "COD" like. im fearing when they increase map sizes even more than the way they were b4, weapons like mass drivers and laser rifles and of course snipers will be the go to

...a big post that I wanted to comment on, but didn't want to start my post with a huge quote

OK before you read this i would like to apologize for my rude behavior in this post. I didnt mean to seem QQ im just fearing the death of this game.

AR nerf. AR are supposed to be a central weapon plain and simple. Tell me what other FPS shooter doesn't have ARs for main weapons. They are the primary weapon of choice any new player will look to they did not deserve a nerf. There has been around 4 or 5 builds since the beginning and in every last build ARs were fine but now you people think they were OP because you don't know how to play. ARs should be the main weapon of choice with all other weapons branched out with their different roles.
I will explain for all you fags who will post i am just QQing.

#1. I don't know how many times i have seen heavies try to 1v1 me or take on a full squad by himself. thats just not right you need a few people helping you take them on. of course you are gonna die to great AR players your an easy slow target. We have fantastic heavies in our corp and they were very hard to take out 1v1 and i often died because they knew how to play that class. Average heavies are supposed to stay close to their squad to provide close support not 1v5 and expect to win. Learn how to use them and you wont die often.

#2. Lasers where great against AR. If you were a good laser user you knew to keep your distance because you had the upper hand against AR user at range. Don't rush someone with a laser you will never win.

#3. Snipers wtf are you camping the whole game for? of course i hunted you down with my TAR because you were so f****** annoying camping in one place the WHOLE game. Learn to move around the map and keep people guessing and you wont die often to my AR. Sleepy Zan is the one sniper i respect, why? because he actually runs side by side with my AR and steals my kills with his quick scoping sniper rifle.

By the way, i use a TAR user who used the basic Sony Dualshock 3 controller. One of the few who could actually manually fire a TAR faster than a regular AR. Those took skill to use and be good at. but now they get recoil after every bullet shot?

#4. Mass drivers didn't need the increase in clip, now they are god weapons.

Like really CCP can you really please quit it with the nerf HAMMER just chill bro. Learn to add and subtract one thing at a time. For instance, you should have added ONLY recoil for us to test out for these first few weeks, then added the ability to choose between iron sights and regular scope. Don't change 3 or more features and expect for it to be balanced. ARs are horrible now and i feel sorry for the new players who are going to come in and see every using mass drivers.

Also why make all AR damage similar? wtf is the point in putting points into proto gear when free crap is just as better. I wonder what the recoil would be like if i didn't spec into AR and didnt have to skills to decrease kick dispersion.

I really want to love this build but the AR nerf is killing it for me. like i said in the other post, im gonna use every OP weapon till it breaks and everyone calls for a nerf till we all start doing 1hp damage. I want to see how many time CCP can nerf something b4 they think this game is fit for open beta.

ok im done. but for once just post your opinions about all of this and how you think this game should be. mayb we can salvage this game, and not how the random azz system works in this game but into the fun precise shooter we all want it to be.

I agree that the TacAR has been slightly over nerfed and needs either higher damage, lower recoil or a combination of the two, but I think it is much closer to balanced now than it was before the nerf.
I initially preferred the standard AR before the nerf, but that is because it was incredibly good at all ranges and much easier to use. After playing with the new iron sighted AR I think that it is a far more balanced weapon. I've not really used the burst or the breach variants yet, so can't really comment, but I think the standard AR is about right.

I agree with you about SMGs and Sniper Rifles, I've not tried lasers or mass drivers yet, but lasers seem okay to me ATM, though I think you're right about the mass driver ammo.

I don't understand what you mean about an autowin suit? I don't think anyone's said that. As you say, if a heavy can trap you with nowhere to go, they kill you. The only way you beat them is by using your speed and better knowledge of the terrain. This is what people are saying. Face to face, with no cover. A heavy should win. But if you're in a position where you've let a heavy corner you face to face with no cover, you deserve to be ganked!

I'm actually finding the AR 'nerf' so much better...

They still have the range, the damage, and rate of fire capabilities, they just handle differently with the recoil. So you only burst fire, not unload full clips, or (as you said) fire the TAR -faster- thatn the ordinary AR... which was not it's intended purpose, and was easily exploitable by people who did use the modded controllers.

ARs are now balanced. And tbh, as an AR user myself, they feel sooo much better and more badass.

The only problem I have with the regular AR at this time is the lack of an ADS sight that allows users to take advantage of the effective range the AR has....well that and I dont agree with the nerf in dmgs for all standard/adv/proto weapons.

Well if that is the case regarding the heavy suits then I guess I dont understand. Mainly because this is a stupid example....it would be like saying tanks should ALWAYS win against an AV user because tanks can kill in 1-2 shots and can absorb way more shots from the AV. The problem is always is not the case on the battlefield.......8 times out of 10 I can take on a heavy 1 v 1 and win.

What are you talking about.... aside from the bigness problem of the IS, the other main problem is that I can't see what I am hitting because of the opponents name.

Your entire post is terrible.

1. Heavies should always beat AR users in a 1v1 fight, as long as they aren't extremely stupid. The weakness with heavies is that they don't have equipment and can't be where they're needed as quickly as other suits. Yes, they shouldn't attack a squad in win, but an AR user beating a heavy 1v1 is a joke.
2. Exactly: ARs should be a generalist weapon. However, unlike what you think, they shouldn't be perfect at everything. If you think you can get through armor faster than a MD, you're joking.
3. How exactly was this ruined? The only difference now is the sniper has a chance to kill you if you run out in the open in front of them while shooting like an idiot.
4. MDs needed a bigger clip- but perhaps only a 1 round increase. If you would use more than ARs (and by the sound of it, you used them because they were OP at the time) you would know this.

Learn to play- as I learned how to effectively use non-OP weapons last build.

they were always beatable, Marton's laser rifles killed the crap out of me, Blondie's HMG wrecked me, Sleepy's snipers gave me a hard time. people just need to practice more

1). CCP in early blogs even said heavies can be taken on 1v1 (by scounts in cqb; and AR's at range); so yeah, your whole belief is negated. And as others said, if heavies should win 1v1, then we'd all run heavy suits.

If you look at the iron sight there are three dots on the sights that are lined up. When you fire your AR the bullets are actually going to where that dot is pointing. THis mean to shoot someones head with the AR you have to actually put this dot over the head of the target but in doing this you completely cover the enemy with your sight.

I Can take out a heavy 1v1.
Random AR scrubs shouldn't always beat heavies.
Why would anyone play as a heavy if anything can beat them no problem?

not sure where to start with the fail of this post ..

1). CCP in early blogs even said heavies can be taken on 1v1 (by scounts in cqb; and AR's at range); so yeah, your whole belief is negated. And as others said, if heavies should win 1v1, then we'd all run heavy suits.

2). AR's weren't perfect at everything ;but yet an AR in games and real world is a jack of all trades weapon. However if you wanted range on your AR, you needed up to upgrade your SS skill (which most good players do); that or run with a TAR. If liked to be sneaky, you had shotties; or if wanted to cause havoc you have MD's.

3). MD dont really need a bigger clip; i just used them for the first two times. Combined went 23-2; so yeah, im pretty sure people can survive on using a 6 round grenade launcher that inhibits your enemy from aiming; as if clip runs out; its called secondary.


With the new patch, we are all adapting and still doing just as well as before; it is just tedious in the sense, that the main gun used by a good portion of the community got altered in more then one way. It would of been easier and possibly better to do one thing at a time instead of several; as most other weapons when altered had one thing changed about them at a time (in a negative fashion).

As other AR's users might say, recoil is perfectly fine; its the loss the the "scope" that had changed gameplay (and not for the better). That and i'd say all around those who have skilled deep into weapons may be against the scaling of damage; as there isn't a big point to run better weapons anymore based on damage. The only real point to skill into some weapons are for the passive bonuses said skilling gives you

That's not how iron sights work- at least not this kind.
When both parts of the sight are lined up correctly, the part where the bullets will go is slightly above the "dot", not in the middle of it.
At least that's how it's supposed to work.

The loss of a proper sight has completely altered gameplay with an assault rifle. I love how the noobs call things balanced, because the AR's no longer have a proper sight. I guarantee if CCP was to give AR's the camera back noobs would start bitching about the AR again.

I'm looking forward to OPTIONAL scopes, when they introduce (hopefully later this build rather than waiting for the next) weapon customisation.

I don't even use ARs, and I'm looking forward to the renewal of tears about them when it hits.

I think Assault Rifles should be repossessed. They cause a lot of murder. Derp derp. I heard the president say it!

I think Assault Rifles should be repossessed. They cause a lot of murder. Derp derp. I heard the president say it!

This really is a stupid post in poor taste.

"optional scopes" and "weapon customization" don't work for games that already have so many variables that alter weapon performance.

CCP should keep things simple and offer the camera sights we already have along with ironsights.

This game already offers enough customization we don't need more. Rather than adding customization CCP should focus on increasing the player count.

naw, the president said only criminals should be able to obtain guns

Obeezy said that? Man that's not cool of him. Immma redact my vote!

TV never lies man. Obama isn't even black - he paints himself everyday.

The loss of a proper sight has completely altered gameplay with an assault rifle. I love how the noobs call things balanced, because the AR's no longer have a proper sight. I guarantee if CCP was to give AR's the camera back noobs would start bitching about the AR again.

A lot smaller ? Or with a better design ?
Cause if you dare compare new magnus peak to a COD map, then you'd better stop right here. Those three objectives have 150-200m distance between each other.

Ashland ? It's action packed. short range infantry oriented (ABC) while still having room for long range weapon. It's still bigger than a COD map.

Plateus ? Kind of the middle ground map.

Any COD map from MW2 (last i dare play) is still way smaller than any of those. And with a lot more of camping positions...
Beside what you're saying makes no sense. According to you : If we, poor fools, dont notice the AR nerf it's because maps were shrunk. Then, how comes you get mow down by lasers and MD ? If the map are so much COD like ?

Honestly, i still take down most infantry at 40-50 meters without problem. And short range MD tend to taste my shotgun when they annoy me....

Mass driver isn't really good at long range, isn't it?

I love how you guys don't complain as CCP balances everything else, but the second they take a look at your precious weapon (which lets face it, is all you guys ever use), you're all up in arms and telling us all how terrible the change was.

What is it you tell us noobs?

Get good?

Get good.

if you know how to aim a mass driver you can be a beast trust me it feels awesome going 23-1 with a mass driver because i can hit and kill people at 100+m and also kill anyone who comes into 1-100m of me. but i still dont think that is how its supposed to be

Okay Slick I would like to actually compare the situation change as far as combat and weapons go and put in my suggestions. Not trolling ignore the fools and lets talk logic here.

The skirmish maps have not shrunk(cannot speak for the ambush don't play it often). They have also added much more objects by adding instillation in new places to force corners and cover. By doing this they have played to both sides. You now are generally closer to the MD user than before so it is a lot more dangerous than before. They have also helped out the AR user by applying the cover everywhere and allowing for new elevation points for tactical advantage. The disadvantage is now people have to use cover wisely to hide for a MD.

Next I want to compare damage from AR tier to AR tier, then AR to MD. The difference in the AR tier to tier is in the DPS over time not shot to shot. Yes people say oh it deals 341 a second. Yes this is true, but like you stated you miss with a good bit of them due to kick movement a being hit yourself. So lets say you land 5 to 6 out of 10 shots, 170 damage per second on the lowest tier rifle with no mods and without weaponry buff. Go up a tier 7 out of 10 shots you are now doing due to kick reduction. The DPS is now increased to 224 damage in one second, that is almost a complex shield mod difference there. this is all without weaponry and damage mods.

Next lets do MD to AR. Yes there is a MD that can do 378 damage in one shot, but this is the breach variant. It fires slower and the radius is reduced severely and so is the splash damage. Lets just compare the standards to start no point in getting to many numbers in there. The standard compare at MD 225 a sec on a direct hit, the AR at the chances and hit probability I gave you earlier is 170 a sec. This is with a direct hit. Now switch to splash and the numbers go to MD 115 to AR 170 still. On the prototype end, you have the MD doing 270 on a direct hit and 138 on splash. With the AR doing again with they chances and hit probability from earlier 224 a sec. Throw in the MD weakness to shields and their ability to do damage to multiple tangos at once. Then in CQC with less cover they are better. Put distance like say Bravo to Charlie on the four point and It is the AR all day. This is written up as a 1v1 and with no damage buffs from anywhere.

So really it seems they both have an advantage in different areas of the field. The main issue we have is now with the new IS on the AR most feel like they have to be with in 15M to kill someone. Practice some get a little bit away and you will see how good the AR is still. Yes the MD is more deadly now because you are closer to it. Yes the AR IS is different but plays better into the CQC that they have forced on us than it did with a scope. TAR needs a damage buff a major damage buff by like around 200%. So it hurts real nice like on the business end, but doesn't really allow it to play CQC well. So it is more of a suppressor weapon as opposed to a breach weapon since we already have that. The AR gets put the dot on them and pull the trigger advantage here I am sorry it takes more skill to get a good hit with the MD than it does with the AR. The issue I see is the radius on the MD at operation lv 5 is 6m with a freedom that cover a big area. So maybe a small nerf on that would be good, and I mean small not chop 2m off each one so it is a precision gun that takes time to get there and the bullet can be easily dodged. The AR no idea for making it better in CQC i kinda like it the way it is now really never really like to scope to begin with(sorry always used IS even in battlefield at long ranges still IS it).

What do you think. I think skill is the biggest factor and numbers of course we all know what zerg swarming can do.

Edit* sorry forgot this earlier. When the maps get bigger they are going to be so big people are going to be begging for a dropship to come and pick them up so they don't have to truck it(by foot or actual truck LOL). So range will not be a factor from hot spot to hot spot. Atleast this is the way I am seeing it in the future.

G-slick you're such a beast on the field - I fear very little besides you and 2 others. Never seem to be able to kill you guys. But I think I see a problem with your thinking. CCP is a company - and your a hardcore gamer. The idea of the balance wasn't just fixing game mechanics - but a lot of what CCP is doing is developing a game that will last - thus their also trying to be attractive to gamers. And what's commonly known as unattractive to the FPS crowd is a single weapon that can do all in high end games. That was the AR - the do all weapon. Not do all because it can do everything well enough like an AR should - it did everything the best. That needed fixing pretty badly if CCP wants to advertise how depth there creative system is. A person shouldn't need to dedicate too much time learning a weapon that's only point and fire.

yes but how many times do i need to say this? i understand that the ARs needed recoil but they didnt need to be nerf in 3 different areas at the same time

They only got nerfed in 1 way- recoil. 1 "nerf" was only because people whined they wanted ironsights, no matter how much they suck or how little sense it makes to have them. Not sure what that 3rd nerf you made up is.

G , i agree with you; i think people havent really taken into account the AR was hit on 3 different levels all at once; where no other weapon through any build has been hit as such. Yes classes have been altered along w/ a weapon; but never a sole weapon has been affected in 3 game altering ways at one single time.

The point being, there is a problem with it; yet there wont be a change for several weeks (or at all); and if a change does come, it is hard to tell what is the needed change.

Along with what G said; by nerfing damage (not just to AR's), it has reduced the reasoning to skill up weapons (or least buy the higher tier weapons), as the basic/militia gear really now IS about on par with proto weapons; the only difference is the suits & modules used.

A lot of AR users managed not to notice that every other weapon's Prototype versions had their damage values reduced, and think their high-tier ARs have been given a damage nerf when they've just seen the same change as everything else in the entire game.

and if YOU haven't noticed; we have been saying it was an AR nerf b/c the topic at hand was AR's; but we do know the nerf was across board as i've been saying in LOTS of topics now. The new damage scheme no longer makes proto weapons as effective and as worthwhile as they were before; as the same abillities can be achieved by basic/adv gear

I'm actually finding the AR 'nerf' so much better...

They still have the range, the damage, and rate of fire capabilities, they just handle differently with the recoil. So you only burst fire, not unload full clips, or (as you said) fire the TAR -faster- thatn the ordinary AR... which was not it's intended purpose, and was easily exploitable by people who did use the modded controllers.

ARs are now balanced. And tbh, as an AR user myself, they feel sooo much better and more badass.

A lot of AR users managed not to notice that every other weapon's Prototype versions had their damage values reduced, and think their high-tier ARs have been given a damage nerf when they've just seen the same change as everything else in the entire game.

"optional scopes" and "weapon customization" don't work for games that already have so many variables that alter weapon performance. CCP should keep things simple and offer the camera sights we already have along with ironsights.

This game already offers enough customization we don't need more. Rather than adding customization CCP should focus on increasing the player count.

They are "focusing on player count" by making us ALL play with iron sights....you guys sound like a bunch of sissys complaining sbout the iron sights BUT YOU'RE SO GOOD RIGHT....FPS GODS RIGHT?Then why does it phase you at all....cuz yer fkn exploit mod controller using bitches...Dont try to act like yer some fuking self rightous expert on FPS shooter games you fkn hack....WHHAAAA MY CREO WHAAA MY TAC WHHA IRON SIGHTS....fuckin grow up you winey *****.....What game doesnt have muzzle rise these days for a gun that does more damage or slowere ROF....WOW this is fking hilarious.....dont see you guys talking all the **** about a 25 million dollar corp match now do I? scrub

They are "focusing on player count" by making us ALL play with iron sights....you guys sound like a bunch of sissys complaining sbout the iron sights BUT YOU'RE SO GOOD RIGHT....FPS GODS RIGHT?Then why does it phase you at all....cuz yer fkn exploit mod controller using bitches...Dont try to act like yer some fuking self rightous expert on FPS shooter games you fkn hack....WHHAAAA MY CREO WHAAA MY TAC WHHA IRON SIGHTS....fuckin grow up you winey *****.....What game doesnt have muzzle rise these days for a gun that does more damage or slowere ROF....WOW this is fking hilarious.....dont see you guys talking all the **** about a 25 million dollar corp match now do I? scrub

Lol umad?

Lol umad?

Lol, most of you should be seriously embarrassed by this thread.

Nonfactor forum trash posting incompetent troll responses.

Where's CCP's thoughts on all this and there reasonings - we can say whatever we like and it could be true or supported by biased opinions, it really doesn't matter if CCP had a plan all along for what they've done and we don't understand it.

and I had no idea about AR proto nerf.

...
Nonfactor forum trash posting incompetent troll responses.
...

I got one more thing to say before i leave this QQ whine ***** fest thread..
if you WERE so bad ass with the TACS before and you didnt use modded controlers and they have scopes now...... then ....
whats the problem?

STFU,HTFU AND ADAPT OR DIE

Lol, most of you should be seriously embarrassed by this thread.

Nonfactor forum trash posting incompetent troll responses.

Mid level (at best) players talking themselves up and raging at Imperfects indirectly for reasons that have nothing to do with AR.

Having played with and against G-slick he is a way better player than most anyone in this thread.

Take Away Message - You're bad and you should practice more at both forum and this videogame.

Keep posting.

Lol you should be seriously embarrassed by this thread.

Nonfactor forum/Imperfect trash posting incompetent troll responses.

Mediocre (at best) player talking himself up and raging at others indirectly for reasons that have nothing to do with AR.

Having played with and against G-slick he is a somewhat better player than most anyone in this thread, although using Proto all the time does help.

Take Away Message - You're bad and you should practice more at both forum and this videogame.

Please stop posting.

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Nonfactor forum trash posting incompetent troll responses.
...

No, I FTFY. You idiots are trolling your own thread and then perpetuating the trolling by continuing to respond to the trolls, and being blatantly hypocritical in the process of bitching about the trolls. And at least the trolling from others is funny.

You're just whining about the AR. It's perfectly fine and rebalanced with the other weapons now. Before, it was just put dot on target, wait for target to die, since the thing had no recoil at all. Not that it really matters much, since this is a beta.

So quit whining about having to use skill with an AR now.

I'm a Mid level (at best) players talking themselves up and raging at Imperfects indirectly for reasons that have nothing to do with AR.

Lol, do you even play this game?

You have 18 likes and live in an NPC corp...

No, I FTFY. You idiots are trolling your own thread and then perpetuating the trolling by continuing to respond to the trolls, and being blatantly hypocritical in the process of bitching about the trolls. And at least the trolling from others is funny.

You're just whining about the AR. It's perfectly fine and rebalanced with the other weapons now. Before, it was just put dot on target, wait for target to die, since the thing had no recoil at all. Not that it really matters much, since this is a beta.

So quit whining about having to use skill with an AR now.

Lol, do you even play this game?

You have 18 likes and live in an NPC corp...

Case in point. Thanks for helping others understand what I was saying.

Given you said

"""Seems someone is a bit mad. I did just beat an imperfect in a match for K/D, was only barely edged out for WP, and I pretty much only use militia equivalent gear most of the time unlike you guys whom I see in full proto. Does that make you even madder?"""

Forum scrub comedy gold.

right there, u just confirmed what we are saying. Having the camera wouldn't make a difference, it just allowed for clear viewing. There IS recoil now, so its no longer just told the trigger down; that is all we have been trying to say.

LOL I said that, so what? I'm not being hypocritical about my intentions or what I meant by it. I'm a casual player and I can still at least do as well as your members.

Confirming.

Serious tip -

Walk the actual walk night after night. We'll notice. Don't post about it.

They are "focusing on player count" by making us ALL play with iron sights....you guys sound like a bunch of sissys complaining sbout the iron sights BUT YOU'RE SO GOOD RIGHT....FPS GODS RIGHT?Then why does it phase you at all....cuz yer fkn exploit mod controller using bitches...Dont try to act like yer some fuking self rightous expert on FPS shooter games you fkn hack....WHHAAAA MY CREO WHAAA MY TAC WHHA IRON SIGHTS....fuckin grow up you winey *****.....What game doesnt have muzzle rise these days for a gun that does more damage or slowere ROF....WOW this is fking hilarious.....dont see you guys talking all the **** about a 25 million dollar corp match now do I? scrub


and dont ever try to put on airs like your concerned about the "new player"you guys dont give a **** about kicking the crap out of them until they quit and think this game sux while you wear you proto gear and go 8 IMPS deep into matches smashin on militia dudes/noobs...keep it real.

Online fps games were ar is not central.

Halo, ar is present but other weapons overshadow, although other rifles are popular.
Unreal, no ar at all
Doom, base weapon is a ar but htat style of shooter the base is normally weakest.
painkiller, no ar at all
Resistance, no ar at all, only battle rifles.
Call of duty games set in WWII, only ar is the stg44
Battlefield games set in WWII, only ar is the stg44

Each race needs a general purpose assault weapon. The ar is the Gallente weapon for this, other 3 races need there own for the same role. Amarr being laser rifle and/or scrambler, caldari being Gauss rifle. Minmatar will have something, I personally hope something like a sci-fi browning automatic rifle from wwii.

The scope being changed out will help once we get that option.

I think the main problem is the recoil makes the barrel rise but not return after a burst. I checked MAG, Boarderlands 2, and Killzone 3 to see if I was remembering wrong, they all had the barrel fall after firing stopped. Repeated bursts in dust keep raising the barrel, but it never lowers.

if this was changed so the barrel lowered after firing stopped it would help. The recoil and dispersion seem to be done separably, so if the gun recovered the muzzle rise after pause, but not to exact spot from dispersion it would be much better.

Online fps games were ar is not central.

Halo, ar is present but other weapons overshadow, although other rifles are popular.
Unreal, no ar at all
Doom, base weapon is a ar but htat style of shooter the base is normally weakest.
painkiller, no ar at all
Resistance, no ar at all, only battle rifles.
Call of duty games set in WWII, only ar is the stg44
Battlefield games set in WWII, only ar is the stg44

Each race needs a general purpose assault weapon. The ar is the Gallente weapon for this, other 3 races need there own for the same role. Amarr being laser rifle and/or scrambler, caldari being Gauss rifle. Minmatar will have something, I personally hope something like a sci-fi browning automatic rifle from wwii.

The scope being changed out will help once we get that option.

I think the main problem is the recoil makes the barrel rise but not return after a burst. I checked MAG, Boarderlands 2, and Killzone 3 to see if I was remembering wrong, they all had the barrel fall after firing stopped. Repeated bursts in dust keep raising the barrel, but it never lowers.

if this was changed so the barrel lowered after firing stopped it would help. The recoil and dispersion seem to be done separably, so if the gun recovered the muzzle rise after pause, but not to exact spot from dispersion it would be much better.

Right now, in game, there an imbalance issue as there is no good counter to laser range besides the burst AR.

...or a good player with the Tac AR
...or a Sniper Rifle
...or a Mass Driver in the right hands
...or effective use of cover
...or a cheap HAV
...or a decent LAV
...or a Dropship

...or a good player with the Tac AR
...or a Sniper Rifle
...or a Mass Driver in the right hands
...or effective use of cover
...or a cheap HAV
...or a decent LAV
...or a Dropship

So either vehicles or ...not in the hands of 90% of the players?

Do you want 40% of the players using MD or Sniper rifles? Would that be a fun game?

The Tac is a poor choice against laser right now.

Cover is just situational.

So either vehicles or ...not in the hands of 90% of the players?

Do you want 40% of the players using MD or Sniper rifles? Would that be a fun game?

The Tac is a poor choice against laser right now.

Cover is just situational.

Uh, how about using a laser rifle to battle the laser rifle user?

This is the real problem.

The Dust CCP devs are really really poor at communicating their goals with changes like these.

The AR was properly good at mid, ok at range and ok at CQB.

The removal of the camera sight from the AR seems to leave a big hole in the weapons.

It may be that there will be attachable scopes but it was premature to remove the camera zoom without those options in game.

Wasn't that the problem with the AR though? That it was too easy to be good at all three ranges? It was the best at mid range, as well as being competitive at short and long range.

As you say, no other weapon compared to it.
Isn't that the definition of unbalanced?

All of the people who are "happy" with the AR nerf never fired a weapon before. The reason why AR's are supposed to be stable platforms is because they excel in all ranges except extremely long distance that belongs to SR's. The recoil for the AR's is completely over exaggerated.

The AR was doing what it was supposed to do.

The assault rifle became the standard military rifle in the post-World War II era. The Soviet Union led the way with the AK-47, and other nations followed later. Combat experience during the World Wars had shown that most infantry combat took place at 200GÇô300 meters (218GÇô328 yards) distance and that the winner of any given firefight would most likely be the one with the highest rate of fire. The rifle cartridges of the day were therefore unnecessarily powerful, producing recoil and report in exchange for marginal benefit. The lower power of the intermediate cartridge meant that each soldier could fire more bullets faster and/or with less recoil and its lighter weight allowed more ammunition to be carried.

Have you ever fired a Gallente AR? Or any weapon using Blaster technology, for that matter?

Arguing that the rules of sci-fi have to match the real world equivalent even remotely - let alone accurately - is kind of missing the point.

Have you ever fired a Gallente AR? Or any weapon using Blaster technology, for that matter?

Arguing that the rules of sci-fi have to match the real world equivalent even remotely - let alone accurately - is kind of missing the point.

It was doing what it WOULD be supposed to do IN THE REAL WORLD, where gameplay and balance aren't key concerns for weapon manufacturers to take into account.

Having a weapon that's barely a half-step short of ideal for 99% of encounters is good for reality, but bad for game balance.