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Anyanka Shadowmane
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
80
   |
Posted - 2012.12.21 04:43:00 -
[211] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Reading around... a lot of the comments are based on G-slick simply being an imperfect speaking out loud. Anyone else find this a tad bit... uncivilized? ^_^
I aim for them as much as the next guy on this forum but the jelly on the imperfects is unfounded. So what they can beat a bunch of beta testers. Beta Testers aren't exactly suppose to be a elite group of players. Bring the ego trips down a bit and take another gander at the AR because as much as I like the changes they still need tweaking. And not a single comment has been said on how to improve what's there besides more scope choices.
I want a ton of things for AR. I want to be able to make it a deployable weapon, we're suppose to be in the future, if my gun takes up CPU then it has a computer - so let me see it.
I did say I think the TacAR needs slightly less recoil... I think it should be able to get a couple of shots off at extreme range that are close enough together that they'd both be head shots before the recoil drags your gun off target.
In fairness, it may well have been lost in amongst the rest of the thread. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 04:48:00 -
[212] - Quote
I would separate the TAR nerf from the general AR nerf.
AR's are, in my opinion so far 2 days into this build, still the main weapon for most situations and which everyone's gonna be training.
TAR, on the other hand, ARE hit too heavily. Why and how?
This is first time that kind of recoil and kick is implemented, it is now in game for testing.
Very true you prolly can hit a target consistently (lucky and bad streaks barred) about once a second. Which is kinda low amount.
Now, remember the description on TAR's: single fired LOW DAMAGE shots.
Wouldn't it sound like it's time to up the damage on TAR shots?
If you are going to get only few hits, they should be useful. Please remember TAR takes skill more than before to use, that justifies the damage increase (which shouldn't be granted on light basis.
PS: I'm actually going to separate this as a topic of it's own, please discuss on TAR damage buff here:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=438618#post438618 |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 04:51:00 -
[213] - Quote
Regis Mk V wrote:How could you suck with the AR but say it needs a nerf or like the nerf it received. In any FPS a weapon that needs a nerf is a weapon that any and all players could use with little to no effort. Something like SMG's in the new COD but that wasn't the case in Dust with the AR's because there were still people who could not use them properly...
ARs were competitive against SMGs and Shotguns in CQC. They're still not bad.
ARs were only arguably competing against Scrambler Pistols for mid-range (and those got a nerf too). They now have to compete with Mass Drivers, but they still have the edge.
ARs were competitive against Laser Rifles and Sniper Rifles at long range. Now you have to be more careful about using your AR at longer ranges.
Before, the AR was basically king of the battlefield. Now it fits the "jack of all trades, master of none" role that makes sense for this kind of weapon in a videogame. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
479
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 04:55:00 -
[214] - Quote
Gotta laugh at people who constantly bring the "in real life" argument to gaming, lets make this game more like real life infantry can just tag stuff while guns, missiles and jets from over the horizon destroy it all, it would be heaps fun. |
Selinate deux
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 05:03:00 -
[215] - Quote
So I just used the tac AR for the first time, just the advanced model.
There's not a single problem with it, and especially not a problem with the recoil. The damage is better at range than a regular AR, and the accuracy is much better. Decent at medium range too.
I really don't see a problem with it. If you're trying to use it like a sniper rifle... maybe you should use a sniper rifle instead? |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
132
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 05:10:00 -
[216] - Quote
G-SLicK wrote:Umbat Boki wrote:[quote=KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf]I use AR's primarily, and AR's are fine. Its not a bad thing that AR's are no longer unbeatable, its ok for other weapons to be as good. Just get use to it, and it will be eventually be just fine. I actually find AR's more fun now, and I have been doing much better than before. I also doing better than before with AR (Exile AR). This make me wonder about raise of complains on AR. I also don't agree with OP that we should have one weapon which is good in all situations. Each weapon should have their strengths and weakness. It looks so better when battlefield is filled with ARs, LRs, MDs, HMGs and shotguns. It's much better than ARs everywhere.
your doing better with the exile because there isnt much of a difference from that and a proto duvolle.
Proto Duvolle was massively overpowered. Good thing it is now nerfed. I always thought the idea was to keep the gap between standard and proto weapons a modest one is to provide some balance in the game, so that ppl cant steam roll the opposing team purely because they have proto gear.
Rearding the argument that AR is supposed to be a center piece weapon in each FPS - I don't think it makes any sense. What most ppl want to see is diversity of both weapons and play styles. Last build we had everyone run with AR except for a bunch of eccentric lunatics who tried other weapons just for fun or to be different. |
xprotoman23
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1452
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 05:16:00 -
[217] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Imperfect fool wrote:
When recoil gets added to assault rifles n00bs wont stand a chance and we will dominate like never before.
.
Either this or some variation of it as i sayd to one of them that recoil will screw them over badly. Just funny that they all come in here now and want their old AR back. Im glad that the money that they have spend on cronus x/modded controllers is now wasted. What people dont realise is that the Imperfects dont want to balance the game. They just want to protect their investment on hardware. For a example a cronus x (device that allows you to programm any controller) can be used to implement a rapid fire feature like with modded controllers. Both are quite expensive you can say it cost them around 60-99$ each. So with the handling of the AR's that we have now they cant insta kill you from 160m away with a TAC AR and modded hardware. And i say it again to all imperfects who where so stupid to get such dumb things to cheat on a online game. ---------->>>>>WASTED MONEY<<<<<----------
I don't know what's worse your little rant or that other kids QQing about modded controllers. |
StrafeN AnD HeadShotN
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
67
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 06:01:00 -
[218] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Imperfect fool wrote:
When recoil gets added to assault rifles n00bs wont stand a chance and we will dominate like never before.
.
Either this or some variation of it as i sayd to one of them that recoil will screw them over badly. Just funny that they all come in here now and want their old AR back. Im glad that the money that they have spend on cronus x/modded controllers is now wasted. What people dont realise is that the Imperfects dont want to balance the game. They just want to protect their investment on hardware. For a example a cronus x (device that allows you to programm any controller) can be used to implement a rapid fire feature like with modded controllers. Both are quite expensive you can say it cost them around 60-99$ each. So with the handling of the AR's that we have now they cant insta kill you from 160m away with a TAC AR and modded hardware. And i say it again to all imperfects who where so stupid to get such dumb things to cheat on a online game. ---------->>>>>WASTED MONEY<<<<<----------
Reported for trolling,
Honestly people are trying to have a good conversation and then you go off on rant. Attempting to de-rail the thread because you have nothing better to do |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2282
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 06:10:00 -
[219] - Quote
Regis Mk V wrote:All of the people who are "happy" with the AR nerf never fired a weapon before. The reason why AR's are supposed to be stable platforms is because they excel in all ranges except extremely long distance that belongs to SR's. The recoil for the AR's is completely over exaggerated.
what recoil?
i can still keep my aim on a target when hitting L1 easy, the only problem i have atm is the thick ass ironsights and ive never been a fan of ironsights in any fps |
Ribbons Reborns
Doomheim
68
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 06:32:00 -
[220] - Quote
I think the recoil on ARs is perfect and I've always used them. Can't spray n' pray anymore, you actually have to burst fire your shots. Sure, the ironsight isn't that great and at long ranges it's challenging but I can work with it just fine.
Tried out the Codewish the other day and its definitely a lot more challenging to use now. You have to time your shots, especially with good strafing enemies. Also, tried out the CreoDron Breach today and it's still pretty crappy lol. The RoF seems a bit faster but still lacks overall performance compared to other ARs.
All in all, I think CCP got it right. I still think the breach needs some kind of buff though 
P.S. - Lazors are fun too.  |
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 07:36:00 -
[221] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:G-SLicK wrote:Umbat Boki wrote:[quote=KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf]I use AR's primarily, and AR's are fine. Its not a bad thing that AR's are no longer unbeatable, its ok for other weapons to be as good. Just get use to it, and it will be eventually be just fine. I actually find AR's more fun now, and I have been doing much better than before. I also doing better than before with AR (Exile AR). This make me wonder about raise of complains on AR. I also don't agree with OP that we should have one weapon which is good in all situations. Each weapon should have their strengths and weakness. It looks so better when battlefield is filled with ARs, LRs, MDs, HMGs and shotguns. It's much better than ARs everywhere. your doing better with the exile because there isnt much of a difference from that and a proto duvolle. Proto Duvolle was massively overpowered. Good thing it is now nerfed. I always thought the idea was to keep the gap between standard and proto weapons a modest one is to provide some balance in the game, so that ppl cant steam roll the opposing team purely because they have proto gear. Rearding the argument that AR is supposed to be a center piece weapon in each FPS - I don't think it makes any sense. What most ppl want to see is diversity of both weapons and play styles. Last build we had everyone run with AR except for a bunch of eccentric lunatics who tried other weapons just for fun or to be different.
There really isn't much of a difference between the two guns and I think that's garbage.
There is a reason why the duvolle is a prototype and cost 12x more than the Assault Rifle. When you die, that's a lot of ISK that you lost. They had the setup perfect before....now, it doesn't make any sense. Sure, you're making the proto and standard guns the same gun but that blows the entire concept of having a prototype weapon. |
Salazar Skye-fire
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
85
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 13:16:00 -
[222] - Quote
xprotoman23 wrote:Berserker007 wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Your entire post is terrible.
- Heavies should always beat AR users in a 1v1 fight, as long as they aren't extremely stupid. The weakness with heavies is that they don't have equipment and can't be where they're needed as quickly as other suits. Yes, they shouldn't attack a squad in win, but an AR user beating a heavy 1v1 is a joke.
- Exactly: ARs should be a generalist weapon. However, unlike what you think, they shouldn't be perfect at everything. If you think you can get through armor faster than a MD, you're joking.
- How exactly was this ruined? The only difference now is the sniper has a chance to kill you if you run out in the open in front of them while shooting like an idiot.
- MDs needed a bigger clip- but perhaps only a 1 round increase. If you would use more than ARs (and by the sound of it, you used them because they were OP at the time) you would know this.
Learn to play- as I learned how to effectively use non-OP weapons last build. not sure where to start with the fail of this post .. 1). CCP in early blogs even said heavies can be taken on 1v1 (by scounts in cqb; and AR's at range); so yeah, your whole belief is negated. And as others said, if heavies should win 1v1, then we'd all run heavy suits. 2). AR's weren't perfect at everything ;but yet an AR in games and real world is a jack of all trades weapon. However if you wanted range on your AR, you needed up to upgrade your SS skill (which most good players do); that or run with a TAR. If liked to be sneaky, you had shotties; or if wanted to cause havoc you have MD's. 3). MD dont really need a bigger clip; i just used them for the first two times. Combined went 23-2; so yeah, im pretty sure people can survive on using a 6 round grenade launcher that inhibits your enemy from aiming; as if clip runs out; its called secondary. With the new patch, we are all adapting and still doing just as well as before; it is just tedious in the sense, that the main gun used by a good portion of the community got altered in more then one way. It would of been easier and possibly better to do one thing at a time instead of several; as most other weapons when altered had one thing changed about them at a time (in a negative fashion). As other AR's users might say, recoil is perfectly fine; its the loss the the "scope" that had changed gameplay (and not for the better). That and i'd say all around those who have skilled deep into weapons may be against the scaling of damage; as there isn't a big point to run better weapons anymore based on damage. The only real point to skill into some weapons are for the passive bonuses said skilling gives you The loss of a proper sight has completely altered gameplay with an assault rifle. I love how the noobs call things balanced, because the AR's no longer have a proper sight. I guarantee if CCP was to give AR's the camera back noobs would start bitching about the AR again.
and yet you seem to ***** about everything, sitting on top of the world and tears-a-flowin' like a lil girl all the time. if i was you id ***** only bout lack of challenge against that so-called "godlike" betaboards. |
Salazar Skye-fire
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
85
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 13:19:00 -
[223] - Quote
xprotoman23 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:xprotoman23 wrote:The loss of a proper sight has completely altered gameplay with an assault rifle. I love how the noobs call things balanced, because the AR's no longer have a proper sight. I guarantee if CCP was to give AR's the camera back noobs would start bitching about the AR again. I'm looking forward to OPTIONAL scopes, when they introduce (hopefully later this build rather than waiting for the next) weapon customisation. I don't even use ARs, and I'm looking forward to the renewal of tears about them when it hits. "optional scopes" and "weapon customization" don't work for games that already have so many variables that alter weapon performance. CCP should keep things simple and offer the camera sights we already have along with ironsights. This game already offers enough customization we don't need more. Rather than adding customization CCP should focus on increasing the player count.
KITTEH SIMPLE!!! theres COD for that.
weapon customization CAN be factored in with everything else easily. a sight on a gun vs one without can just be a slight increase in gun characteristics or just the precision of its user. |
Makuta Miserix
Better Hide R Die
33
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 14:53:00 -
[224] - Quote
G-SLicK wrote:Umbat Boki wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I use AR's primarily, and AR's are fine. Its not a bad thing that AR's are no longer unbeatable, its ok for other weapons to be as good. Just get use to it, and it will be eventually be just fine. I actually find AR's more fun now, and I have been doing much better than before. I also doing better than before with AR (Exile AR). This make me wonder about raise of complains on AR. I also don't agree with OP that we should have one weapon which is good in all situations. Each weapon should have their strengths and weakness. It looks so better when battlefield is filled with ARs, LRs, MDs, HMGs and shotguns. It's much better than ARs everywhere. your doing better with the exile because there isnt much of a difference from that and a proto duvolle. this is the way i see it ARs may have needed a small recoil but not a nerf hammer LRs owned ARs at range MD are now hard to kill so maybe they should have left the ARs alone and just added recoil to see how we could play against all the other weapons.
Actually, the Exile AR is identical to the basic AR.
Meta level is the same, damage is the same, ROF is the same, ect. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1060
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 15:35:00 -
[225] - Quote
The real life argument is not valid otherwise we would be aible to kill each other on the game with 2-3 shots. And dont forget about the request that a dropsuit should be aible to hold its ground when a LAV drives at full speed at them. That request came aswell from the imperfects. Sorry but i cant take any argument from them serious because of the silly things they demanded in the past. The other reason why they demand the old AR back is because they have now to invest some skillpoints into something else as just AR's, assault dropsuits and light weapon sharpshooter. They wanted a easy mode game and now that it is more competetive they cry. I didnt made a 12 pages long rant when missile launchers got nerfed and simply adapted to the new situation. Why is it so hard for them to accept this and move on? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 16:24:00 -
[226] - Quote
Makuta Miserix wrote:Actually, the Exile AR is identical to the basic AR.
Meta level is the same, damage is the same, ROF is the same, ect.
I think he was exaggerating the proto weapon nerf (which people are still claiming to be an "AR nerf" when it's not). |
Kain Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
895
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 16:52:00 -
[227] - Quote
I need to mess around with the AR more to have a final opinion. Currently I don't mind the iron sights, but I think the front post could have been made narrower. I think adding recoil was fine, but I think it was a mistake to add recoil and change the sights at the same time.
If CCP could add a camera and iron sight variation of each rifle in a hot fix we could all get a better opinion of the changes. Too many changes at once IMO. |
Baracka Flocka Flame
SyNergy Gaming
334
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 17:06:00 -
[228] - Quote
lol @ this thread. classic QQ. |
xprotoman23
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1452
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 17:31:00 -
[229] - Quote
Salazar Skye-fire wrote:xprotoman23 wrote:Berserker007 wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Your entire post is terrible.
- Heavies should always beat AR users in a 1v1 fight, as long as they aren't extremely stupid. The weakness with heavies is that they don't have equipment and can't be where they're needed as quickly as other suits. Yes, they shouldn't attack a squad in win, but an AR user beating a heavy 1v1 is a joke.
- Exactly: ARs should be a generalist weapon. However, unlike what you think, they shouldn't be perfect at everything. If you think you can get through armor faster than a MD, you're joking.
- How exactly was this ruined? The only difference now is the sniper has a chance to kill you if you run out in the open in front of them while shooting like an idiot.
- MDs needed a bigger clip- but perhaps only a 1 round increase. If you would use more than ARs (and by the sound of it, you used them because they were OP at the time) you would know this.
Learn to play- as I learned how to effectively use non-OP weapons last build. not sure where to start with the fail of this post .. 1). CCP in early blogs even said heavies can be taken on 1v1 (by scounts in cqb; and AR's at range); so yeah, your whole belief is negated. And as others said, if heavies should win 1v1, then we'd all run heavy suits. 2). AR's weren't perfect at everything ;but yet an AR in games and real world is a jack of all trades weapon. However if you wanted range on your AR, you needed up to upgrade your SS skill (which most good players do); that or run with a TAR. If liked to be sneaky, you had shotties; or if wanted to cause havoc you have MD's. 3). MD dont really need a bigger clip; i just used them for the first two times. Combined went 23-2; so yeah, im pretty sure people can survive on using a 6 round grenade launcher that inhibits your enemy from aiming; as if clip runs out; its called secondary. With the new patch, we are all adapting and still doing just as well as before; it is just tedious in the sense, that the main gun used by a good portion of the community got altered in more then one way. It would of been easier and possibly better to do one thing at a time instead of several; as most other weapons when altered had one thing changed about them at a time (in a negative fashion). As other AR's users might say, recoil is perfectly fine; its the loss the the "scope" that had changed gameplay (and not for the better). That and i'd say all around those who have skilled deep into weapons may be against the scaling of damage; as there isn't a big point to run better weapons anymore based on damage. The only real point to skill into some weapons are for the passive bonuses said skilling gives you The loss of a proper sight has completely altered gameplay with an assault rifle. I love how the noobs call things balanced, because the AR's no longer have a proper sight. I guarantee if CCP was to give AR's the camera back noobs would start bitching about the AR again. and yet you seem to ***** about everything, sitting on top of the world and tears-a-flowin' like a lil girl all the time. if i was you id ***** only bout lack of challenge against that so-called "godlike" betaboards.
wut |
steadyhand amarr
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
338
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 17:36:00 -
[230] - Quote
Tbh now im used im happy with the ar in fact I'm doing far better with than normall because no one else can use the dam thing :-P I'm going to call op and up post new year as it takes time to see how the changes everyting :-) |
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Cyn Bruin
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
651
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Posted - 2012.12.21 18:20:00 -
[231] - Quote
The only two things I hate about the AR adjustments are Iron Sights and Damage differential between Lower tier and Higher tier weapons.
Noone has given hard statistical facts to back up the damage reduction and balancing so here goes (for those that find FACTS useful).
Prototype ARs
Duvolle - Damage 34.1 - RoF 750 - Acc 57.2
Allotek - Damage 31.4 - RoF 937.5 - Acc 59
Creodron - Damage 46 - RoF 400 - Acc 58.3
Advanced AR
Gek-38 - Damage 32.5 - RoF 750 - Acc 56.6
Militia or Free ARs
"Exile" AR - Damage 31 - RoF 750 - Acc 56
Milita AR - Damage 31 - RoF 750 - Acc 56
So as you can see by the numbers I just now copied off the game a Prototype AR which costs 55k - 77k isk is only doing 3.1 more damage than a FREE AR that you can buy or was given to you by CCP.
Something about spending SP to get the best weapons in class and have those weapons only do 3 more damage seems wrong to me. Anyone else that doesn't have an agenda and is a free thinker think this is balanced correctly?
I agree ARs needed recoil, it makes sense, I have absolutely NO issues with that. I do have an issue with IRON SIGHTS of course, as I have stated in numerous other posts, this is a Futuristic Shooter not a CoD/MoH WWII FPS.
I have and am using almost every type of weapon out there. Those that have seen me in game through the kill feed see I run ARs, Shotguns, Mass Drivers, Forge Gun, Sniper Rifle etc. I havent used a Laser YET, but plan on it soon.
The only reason you're seeing this large a QQfest is because more than 50% of the community uses ARs.
In the end everything will be nerfed and "rebalanced" just hoping its not 3 months until its done (next build). Give me decent futuristic scopes, whatever they may be and I'll be happy. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 19:19:00 -
[232] - Quote
Cyn Bruin wrote: So as you can see by the numbers I just now copied off the game a Prototype AR which costs 55k - 77k isk is only doing 3.1 more damage than a FREE AR that you can buy or was given to you by CCP.
3.1 damage per shot.
750 RPM
750 / 60 = 12.5
12.5 x 3.1 = 38.75
38.75 additional damage per second.
Effectively gives you the equivalent of more than an extra bullet every second with no additional ammo cost.
I'm not saying that's the scale of difference that SHOULD exist between weapon tiers, but it's not as small a change as you're making it sound by saying "3.1 damage" either. I think I'd prefer a change back to the Codex weapon scaling, personally, even though I mostly run Militia gear and this has technically been a buff for me.
Also, while you haven't clearly stated it, you're implying what a few others HAVE stated - that this is a nerf to ARs. It's not. It's a nerf to the upper tiers of weaponry. ALL weapons are being given similar treatment. ALL weapons gain less from their high-tier variants. When compared with other weapons of the same grade, ARs have become no weaker than they were before due to this change. They have been specifically nerfed in other ways, and some weapons have been buffed, but this change itself is NOT a nerf to ARs. |
semperfi1999
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
317
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 19:36:00 -
[233] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Imperfect fool wrote:
When recoil gets added to assault rifles n00bs wont stand a chance and we will dominate like never before.
.
Either this or some variation of it as i sayd to one of them that recoil will screw them over badly. Just funny that they all come in here now and want their old AR back. Im glad that the money that they have spend on cronus x/modded controllers is now wasted. What people dont realise is that the Imperfects dont want to balance the game. They just want to protect their investment on hardware. For a example a cronus x (device that allows you to programm any controller) can be used to implement a rapid fire feature like with modded controllers. Both are quite expensive you can say it cost them around 60-99$ each. So with the handling of the AR's that we have now they cant insta kill you from 160m away with a TAC AR and modded hardware. And i say it again to all imperfects who where so stupid to get such dumb things to cheat on a online game. ---------->>>>>WASTED MONEY<<<<<----------
I will tell you this is dumb if you think alot/most/many imperfects were using modded controllers. From talking to others in imperfects most of the imperfects spend too much money on girls/booze to have throw away money to buy a modded controller. And the few imperfects that dont do this arent the ones I would ever expect to have purchased a modded controller (nor do those players actually use the TAR anyway).
Just to get it through your thick skull noone wants the ARs back exactly how they were last build (at least no imperfects that I know of). We did want recoil added and other than the TARs crazy recoil amounts I think it was done fairly well maybe a little tweaking can be done but it was not done badly. The nerf all light weapons got among standard/adv/proto is dumb but everyone has to deal with that. Then they also got rid of the ability to actually ADS the AR in its effective ranges. This is the biggest problem. If CCP wants to make custimization for weapons go ahead but it should all come out at the same time so that we can choose our sights and not have to wade through the filth that is the iron sights.
I am sorry you hate the imperfects Dark.......but that doesnt make the argument any less valid unless you just like to argue using the ad hominem fallacy. |
semperfi1999
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
317
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 19:49:00 -
[234] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Makuta Miserix wrote:Actually, the Exile AR is identical to the basic AR.
Meta level is the same, damage is the same, ROF is the same, ect. I think he was exaggerating the proto weapon nerf (which people are still claiming to be an "AR nerf" when it's not).
Obviously you have not been reading. The proto weapon nerf is not called an AR only nerf in any of the posts I have read. Your obviously reading your bias into the post when you do not agree with them. I dont agree with the proto/adv weapon nerfs period for any weapon as now the massive cost just does not really fly. Why buy a duvolle that only does a measly amount of additional damage and (although supposed to be more accurate and have longer range in ADS) cannot effectively be used in ADS due to the iron sights. |
Selinate deux
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 19:55:00 -
[235] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Makuta Miserix wrote:Actually, the Exile AR is identical to the basic AR.
Meta level is the same, damage is the same, ROF is the same, ect. I think he was exaggerating the proto weapon nerf (which people are still claiming to be an "AR nerf" when it's not). Obviously you have not been reading. The proto weapon nerf is not called an AR only nerf in any of the posts I have read.
Well ****, the OP was so incoherent, you can't blame anyone for not really knowing WTF is wrong here. OP just said something about AR's then went on about the rest. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 20:01:00 -
[236] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Makuta Miserix wrote:Actually, the Exile AR is identical to the basic AR.
Meta level is the same, damage is the same, ROF is the same, ect. I think he was exaggerating the proto weapon nerf (which people are still claiming to be an "AR nerf" when it's not). Obviously you have not been reading. The proto weapon nerf is not called an AR only nerf in any of the posts I have read. Your obviously reading your bias into the post when you do not agree with them. I dont agree with the proto/adv weapon nerfs period for any weapon as now the massive cost just does not really fly. Why buy a duvolle that only does a measly amount of additional damage and (although supposed to be more accurate and have longer range in ADS) cannot effectively be used in ADS due to the iron sights.
At the time, it hadn't been said in this thread, but was being discussed as such in several other threads. That's why I mentioned it, but didn't make it the focal point of my post.
Also, maybe YOU need to read more, because further in this thread, someone has implied (not directly stated) that the proto weapon nerf was a nerf to ARs, and I've emphasised that it isn't along with a response to another element of that post. And once again, the comment was an aside from the primary topic I was addressing in the post. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
2046
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 20:04:00 -
[237] - Quote
Thread still going 
not bad G-Slick |
Goat of Dover
Shadow Company HQ
161
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 20:10:00 -
[238] - Quote
Goat of Dover wrote:
Next I want to compare damage from AR tier to AR tier, then AR to MD. The difference in the AR tier to tier is in the DPS over time not shot to shot. Yes people say oh it deals 341 a second. Yes this is true, but like you stated you miss with a good bit of them due to kick movement a being hit yourself. So lets say you land 5 to 6 out of 10 shots, 170 damage per second on the lowest tier rifle with no mods and without weaponry buff. Go up a tier 7 out of 10 shots you are now doing due to kick reduction. The DPS is now increased to 224 damage in one second, that is almost a complex shield mod difference there. this is all without weaponry and damage mods.
Next lets do MD to AR. Yes there is a MD that can do 378 damage in one shot, but this is the breach variant. It fires slower and the radius is reduced severely and so is the splash damage. Lets just compare the standards to start no point in getting to many numbers in there. The standard compare at MD 225 a sec on a direct hit, the AR at the chances and hit probability I gave you earlier is 170 a sec. This is with a direct hit. Now switch to splash and the numbers go to MD 115 to AR 170 still. On the prototype end, you have the MD doing 270 on a direct hit and 138 on splash. With the AR doing again with they chances and hit probability from earlier 224 a sec. Throw in the MD weakness to shields and their ability to do damage to multiple tangos at once. Then in CQC with less cover they are better. Put distance like say Bravo to Charlie on the four point and It is the AR all day. This is written up as a 1v1 and with no damage buffs from anywhere.
I wrote this up in one of the first pages using G slicks hit proportions due to movement and kick. The math is on. It also compares MD to AR because that was one of his complaints in the beginning.
The numbers are.
Standard AR with hit chance of 5 to 6 rounds out of 10 - 170 per second
Duvolle AR with increased hit chance due to skills 7 out of 10 round - 224 per second
Standard MD direct hit - 225 - splash - 115 per second
Freedom MD direct hit - 270 - splash - 138 per second
That is a difference of 54 damage a second at the duvolle level, this again is without any damage buffs straight from the numbers given by weapon description. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 20:17:00 -
[239] - Quote
<--- AR user says:
AR's are fine now, they were OP before, STFU and HTFU.
All they need to do is to remove this silly Iron sight that blocks your target so much that in its intended range (medium) you can't even see your target.
Infact, I would say add MOAR recoil, I can unload a full 60 bullets clip and still stay accurate at medium range.
If your idea was to make us burst fire CCP, you failed. |
Goat of Dover
Shadow Company HQ
161
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 20:21:00 -
[240] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:<--- AR user says:
AR's are fine now, they were OP before, STFU and HTFU.
All they need to do is to remove this silly Iron sight that blocks your target so much that in its intended range (medium) you can't even see your target.
Infact, I would say add MOAR recoil, I can unload a full 60 bullets clip and still stay accurate at medium range.
If your idea was to make us burst fire CCP, you failed.
I agree the kick is tiny compared to like BF3, but that can be covered up by futuristic mumbo jumbo. The real kick comes in when you flinch from being shot. So yes you can unload a full clip into one spot at medium range but try and do that while being shot.
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