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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 16 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22	Posted - 2015.05.26 05:43:00 - [1] - Quote Dear Players, Discuss "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 05:53:00 - [2] - Quote This looks absolutely great ! Something worth discussing: Do you want a core for every role, or have -strictly- 3 cores with all possible interactions "baked in"?? In other words: do you envision such a thing as "Basic Assault Core" and "Advanced Medium Frame Core"?? Consider that Assaults, Logis, Sentinels and Commandos all need to continue to have their own suits due to slot layout. Therefore having cores to match might be redundant. It might actually be more elegant to code the cores to react accordingly regardless of what suit they are installed into. Essentially, have only 3 cores. Stuff to think about. I would also suggest that for Officer Suits: allow them to be prefitted with their own core to solve whatever issues they cause. Know what cannot be known.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22	Posted - 2015.05.26 05:56:00 - [3] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: This looks absolutely great ! Something worth discussing: Do you want a core for every role, or have -strictly- 3 cores with all possible interactions "baked in"?? In other words: do you envision such a thing as "Basic Assault Core" and "Advanced Medium Frame Core"?? Consider that Assaults, Logis, Sentinels and Commandos all need to continue to have their own suits due to slot layout. Therefore having cores to match might be redundant. It might actually be more elegant to code the cores to react accordingly regardless of what suit they are installed into. Essentially, have only 3 cores. Stuff to think about. I would also suggest that for Officer Suits: allow them to be prefitted with their own core to solve whatever issues they cause. My dream, which I am currently running massive calculations on, is whether I can get away with a single Power Core per Size, and use Fitting bonuses to differentiate between Assault and Logistics etc. My preliminary results lead to yes. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

One Eyed King Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 05:59:00 - [4] - Quote This looks simple and effective. Simple is good. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:04:00 - [5] - Quote Therefore we would have 9 cores total, 3 for each size. It would be GREAT to have the whole thing solved via Fitting Bonuses, truly ! It would even be an excuse to tweak some of the other role bonuses that need looking at (logis, commandos, etc). If however you just want to get started without fixing up EVERY role's fitting and other bonuses, you could also hardcode what each "medium" core does in a logi suit, an assault suit, and a medium frame, etc. It would be acceptable considering how much less work would be involved, while you take your time planning all the role bonuses. Know what cannot be known.
Diesel Heat seeker UKheadhunters 18	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:07:00 - [6] - Quote Agreed that it would be great. Also what about customizing skins When all the red dots are away, all the blueberries can come out and play...
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:09:00 - [7] - Quote I support Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:10:00 - [8] - Quote My plan is to see if I can roll out the first part of this, for Commandos and Logistics, and hit 3 birds with one stone. That would remove slot progression, and define the true PG/CPU per layer. When I am able to get a Power Core module in (needs a client update), then phase 2 is the replacement of dropsuits with Power Cores. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:15:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My plan is to see if I can roll out the first part of this, for Commandos and Logistics, and hit 3 birds with one stone. That would remove slot progression, and define the true PG/CPU per layer. When I am able to get a Power Core module in (needs a client update), then phase 2 is the replacement of dropsuits with Power Cores. Sounds like you've got it all figured out and want to do it the right way first, even if it's the hard way. Next question is, how much do we need to raise for you to get the next client update :D !? I'M ALL IN ! Know what cannot be known.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 285	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:24:00 - [10] - Quote The slot count idea is the corner nail in the coffin. Having this setup on vehicles made the tiers worthless. Running basic/adv is pointless, they feel like junk. Further pushing veterans into a pro or no stance. If power cores can change slot count, its the game changer we need. Tiericide = last step into vanilla lobby shooter world. Lore and fancy names won't save it. "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~

Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:30:00 - [11] - Quote I do not see how flattening slot progression will push pros to use proto only. The more SP I got, the more I ended up doing just as well with my advanced and basic suits. Nowadays I only run with my Republic Tiger (apex) suit, which has gimped CPU/PG but all possible slots. This allows me to use and make my fits a lot more creatively. In tiercide, Proto doesn't get better, it stays the same. Basic and Advanced get more options to let you choose what you do with your limited PG/CPU. Know what cannot be known.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:33:00 - [12] - Quote Devadander wrote: The slot count idea is the corner nail in the coffin. Having this setup on vehicles made the tiers worthless. Running basic/adv is pointless, they feel like junk. Further pushing veterans into a pro or no stance. If power cores can change slot count, its the game changer we need. Tiericide = last step into vanilla lobby shooter world. Lore and fancy names won't save it. What? This is literally the opposite of what you're describing. This would make Basic and Advanced suits more powerful while leaving Proto suits at the same level they're at now. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 285	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:05:00 - [13] - Quote Skill HAV and you will understand. You guys are thinking this will make your suits op. So not the case. Maybe ratty will be nicer to suits than vehicles... Yup, all tiers have same awesome slot count. To keep you from packing a std hav with pro mods, the pg/CPU is not forgiving. You will fill those extra slots with pg CPU mods and be one module cooler for double the idk. Your std will be as std as ever, your adv sure won't feel adv, and pro will still hand you your waste processing unit. Veterans with max skills will fit well above average suits of the tier you are trying to grind as a NP. Thus, the stdstomp is born. I run adv 90% of the time and will just go pro 100%. All the time. My best gear. In every mode. I can afford it. A lot of them cannot. Veterans are all for this.... I wonder why? Because it makes the game better? Because it enhances npe? More memory for other assets? Lolno. Because they see the opportunity to fit an officer weapon on a std suit, with above adv strength. Killing a pro with a std is currently a mark of skill. All I'm sayin dude. You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:07:00 - [14] - Quote Damnit Rattati, saw your comment pop up on the Biomassed blog and then had to get out of bed to come over and respond to this. Overall as I expected, and support. For the Red and Black "BPO skins for ISK" what do you mean exactly by that? Will they come pre-equipped with a skin? Or are you saying we will just be able to purchase a Red or Black BPO for ISK and place it on those suits? I assume that existing BPO suits would simply be converted to BPO power cores for that tier? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:08:00 - [15] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Devadander wrote: The slot count idea is the corner nail in the coffin. Having this setup on vehicles made the tiers worthless. Running basic/adv is pointless, they feel like junk. Further pushing veterans into a pro or no stance. If power cores can change slot count, its the game changer we need. Tiericide = last step into vanilla lobby shooter world. Lore and fancy names won't save it. What? This is literally the opposite of what you're describing. This would make Basic and Advanced suits more powerful while leaving Proto suits at the same level they're at now. Some people seem to think that slot count is the only thing that makes Proto suits powerful. Cause, ya know, those APEX suits make Proto totally pointless right now /sarcasm As you said Pseudogenesis, all this really does is bring the bottom up and keep Proto exactly where it is. I think it will do wonders for the overall experience by decreasing the power gap between tiers in a responsible manner. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 285	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:10:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My plan is to see if I can roll out the first part of this, for Commandos and Logistics, and hit 3 birds with one stone. That would remove slot progression, and define the true PG/CPU per layer. When I am able to get a Power Core module in (needs a client update), then phase 2 is the replacement of dropsuits with Power Cores. And please don't get it twisted, I LOVE the core idea! To me this speaks of seeing a pilot suit finally. Maybe a cal heavy weapon anti infantry. Calling it the research facility and not the lag facility. I just hate what tiericide did to the HAV and want to save us all from having it happen to suits. Up with cores! Down with tiericide! "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:13:00 - [17] - Quote Devadander wrote: You will fill those extra slots with pg CPU mods and be one module cooler for double the idk. Except PG and CPU mods have additional costs now, so I mean sure you could put a proto CPU mod on a standard suit, but its going to suck a ton of PG that your suit doesn't have. So you fit a proto PG mod to counteract that issue, which is now sucking the CPU that you gained from the CPU mod. I mean you' throwing a shitfit about the numbers when you dont have the numbers yet. So your argument is completely invalid at this point until you have more information. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 285	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:14:00 - [18] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: Devadander wrote: The slot count idea is the corner nail in the coffin. Having this setup on vehicles made the tiers worthless. Running basic/adv is pointless, they feel like junk. Further pushing veterans into a pro or no stance. If power cores can change slot count, its the game changer we need. Tiericide = last step into vanilla lobby shooter world. Lore and fancy names won't save it. What? This is literally the opposite of what you're describing. This would make Basic and Advanced suits more powerful while leaving Proto suits at the same level they're at now. Some people seem to think that slot count is the only thing that makes Proto suits powerful. Cause, ya know, those APEX suits make Proto totally pointless right now /sarcasm As you said Pseudogenesis, all this really does is bring the bottom up and keep Proto exactly where it is. I think it will do wonders for the overall experience by decreasing the power gap between tiers in a responsible manner. A properly fit rasetsu with skills feels like cheating at 47k a pop.... "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Avallo Kantor 803	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:14:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, [img]http://puu.sh/i0Qfj/5f3d7dc537.png[/img] Discuss This is amazing. Its like a dream. You are amazing for being able to implement this, sir. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:18:00 - [20] - Quote Impressive as it is, 81,000 ISK for the Proto Core is ridiculous. Choo choo chooooo, lets all fck a blender. Dench's Thrift Shop* <-- WIP

Devadander Woodgrain Atari 285	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:19:00 - [21] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Devadander wrote: You will fill those extra slots with pg CPU mods and be one module cooler for double the idk. Except PG and CPU mods have additional costs now, so I mean sure you could put a proto CPU mod on a standard suit, but its going to suck a ton of PG that your suit doesn't have. So you fit a proto PG mod to counteract that issue, which is now sucking the CPU that you gained from the CPU mod. I mean you' throwing a shitfit about the numbers when you dont have the numbers yet. So your argument is completely invalid at this point until you have more information. I do indeed have a model for basing my argument. 30 mil into HAV. I am more than sure suits will get away with more than HAV does, but still. Well that backfired because we had no std adv pro hav before...... "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Avallo Kantor 803	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:22:00 - [22] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: Impressive as it is, 81,000 ISK for the Proto Core is ridiculous. Can I ask why? In the example given 81k was the cost of the same Proto Suit, and the powercore makes the BPO suit function exactly as that did. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:22:00 - [23] - Quote So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Avallo Kantor 803	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:24:00 - [24] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? He listed it as a BPO, so it will not cost ISK (unless they have it as a 1 time purchase, but you'd still probably start with all of them as a newbie) "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:26:00 - [25] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: Impressive as it is, 81,000 ISK for the Proto Core is ridiculous. Can I ask why? In the example given 81k was the cost of the same Proto Suit, and the powercore makes the BPO suit function exactly as that did. Because what Proto suit cost 81k ISK? None. Its substantially more than it is currently, for only a minor change to the suits. Unless I've misinterpreted something I cannot see the logic in making it that expensive, before modules are even fitted, unless its a forceful attempt to stop even the mega-rich running Proto 24/7 ha. Choo choo chooooo, lets all fck a blender. Dench's Thrift Shop* <-- WIP
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:28:00 - [26] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? He listed it as a BPO, so it will not cost ISK (unless they have it as a 1 time purchase, but you'd still probably start with all of them as a newbie) Eh times a changing... (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 285	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:28:00 - [27] - Quote shrugs Just feels like next step is " well, its all close enough, let's just have one suit class " Enter CoD... "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:36:00 - [28] - Quote My only issue trying to figure out what color you're going to make the suits. Can we just keep it to Factional Colors when naked? Also, once again, I'm sleepy. What do you mean BPO? Are your replacing suits with infinite ones and only having Power cores as the main thing you use in place of the suit? If so, then I don't like the idea of not paying for your dropsuit If not, then Zzzzzzzzzzzz Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Avallo Kantor 803	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:37:00 - [29] - Quote Sorry Nocturnal, and Denchlad 7, I seem to have caused some confusion. The idea with the 81k was just an example he gave, not the final in game price. Basically the only thing to keep in mind is that the cost of the Proto-suit and the proto-powercore is the SAME. No costs are changing in how much a suit costs. That also applies to you Nocturnal, the suit itself will be just a BPO, but the Powercore still costs ISK, and without said powercore you just have a very nice looking useless suit. So this isn't really making the game any more CoD like, it is just offloading the memory requirements of having so many suits into just having the much cheaper modules. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:37:00 - [30] - Quote Devadander wrote: shrugs Just feels like next step is " well, its all close enough, let's just have one suit class " Enter CoD... Slippery slope fallacy doesn't do much to improve the quality of discourse here. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.

Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:41:00 - [31] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Sorry Nocturnal, and Denchlad 7, I seem to have caused some confusion. The idea with the 81k was just an example he gave, not the final in game price. Basically the only thing to keep in mind is that the cost of the Proto-suit and the proto-powercore is the SAME. No costs are changing in how much a suit costs. That also applies to you Nocturnal, the suit itself will be just a BPO, but the Powercore still costs ISK, and without said powercore you just have a very nice looking useless suit. So this isn't really making the game any more CoD like, it is just offloading the memory requirements of having so many suits into just having the much cheaper modules. I fully understood what he meant when Aero made the thread on your idea. Its just I fully believe that the suits should still cost isk, everything else I'm fine with. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 594	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:41:00 - [32] - Quote As I said in GD about this, you have my full support ! Btw: Why 81k for the proto suit? Shouldn't that be arround 52k (which is already a lot of ISK) ? Fix the game before trying to add anything else. (Hint: hit detection, lags, glitches,.. you've got some work :) )
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 287	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:42:00 - [33] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Devadander wrote: shrugs Just feels like next step is " well, its all close enough, let's just have one suit class " Enter CoD... Slippery slope fallacy doesn't do much to improve the quality of discourse here. And esoteric rhetoric impresses me not. "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:44:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: This looks absolutely great ! Something worth discussing: Do you want a core for every role, or have -strictly- 3 cores with all possible interactions "baked in"?? In other words: do you envision such a thing as "Basic Assault Core" and "Advanced Medium Frame Core"?? Consider that Assaults, Logis, Sentinels and Commandos all need to continue to have their own suits due to slot layout. Therefore having cores to match might be redundant. It might actually be more elegant to code the cores to react accordingly regardless of what suit they are installed into. Essentially, have only 3 cores. Stuff to think about. I would also suggest that for Officer Suits: allow them to be prefitted with their own core to solve whatever issues they cause. My dream, which I am currently running massive calculations on, is whether I can get away with a single Power Core per Size, and use Fitting bonuses to differentiate between Assault and Logistics etc. My preliminary results lead to yes. Can you clarify this point? Do you mean, for example, fitting the STD core on a Minmatar scout will grant +1 to PG, and fitting the same core on a Minmatar assault will grant -26 to CPU and -1 to PG? That's assuming you want to keep the existing CPU/PG values (I hope you do because at this point I think you should do everything you can to keep everything else the same). Anyway, is my basic example of being able to add / subtract available CPU/PG based on the suit it fits into correct?
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 287	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:47:00 - [35] - Quote On the constructive side. The graphic says red for adv, um, commando? "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 615	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:57:00 - [36] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: Impressive as it is, 81,000 ISK for the Proto Core is ridiculous. Can I ask why? In the example given 81k was the cost of the same Proto Suit, and the powercore makes the BPO suit function exactly as that did. because you're flattening the progression (basic has more slots) without flattening the ISK ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 920	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:02:00 - [37] - Quote Looking great! +1000 On the subject of APEX cores, I hope they will be prefitted (BPO) cores and not a "loose" core which you can put on another suite? I.e like the rest of the equipment on the APEX suites. I also like the fact that the APEX Power cores are in between STD and ADV. This will separate them enough with the rest of the BPO suites to justify their purchase.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:12:00 - [38] - Quote Just like to point out that since Aero's post that started all this, Rattati has been holed up in his lair of dreams cooking this up. A lot of tech evaluation has been done by him and the team. I'd even describe his mood as giddy. CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 287	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:15:00 - [39] - Quote What's really eating me now is wondering about all my assets. Will I get balac cores in place of my balacs? Do we have to purchase the bpo suits? If we already have pro, do we have to buy this skin? If cores cost more/less, do we get adjusted assets to reflect? shivers will it just be a mass asset refund like in the past? Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:17:00 - [40] - Quote Devadander wrote: What's really eating me now is wondering about all my assets. Will I get balac cores in place of my balacs? Do we have to purchase the bpo suits? If we already have pro, do we have to buy this skin? If cores cost more/less, do we get adjusted assets to reflect? shivers will it just be a mass asset refund like in the past? I think your concerns will be covered in a way that you keep your assets with no downsides. One of the aims of this idea (originally at least) is to adjust things without changing the overall setup - e.g. everything should still cost the same etc. I for one think we should stay well away from another asset refund because there is already too much ISK in the game.

Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:30:00 - [41] - Quote Da comrade, is very good. "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 920	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:31:00 - [42] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Devadander wrote: What's really eating me now is wondering about all my assets. Will I get balac cores in place of my balacs? Do we have to purchase the bpo suits? If we already have pro, do we have to buy this skin? If cores cost more/less, do we get adjusted assets to reflect? shivers will it just be a mass asset refund like in the past? I think your concerns will be covered in a way that you keep your assets with no downsides. One of the aims of this idea (originally at least) is to adjust things without changing the overall setup - e.g. everything should still cost the same etc. I for one think we should stay well away from another asset refund because there is already too much ISK in the game. I think if the Officer suites will have power cores they will most likely be pre-fitted like the APEX. Many officer suites have unique slot layouts, so I guess they will be exempt from the Tiericide.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:37:00 - [43] - Quote Sorry but teiricide is a tool to increase variety. Making suit 1 equally appealing to suit 2 instead of suit 1 always being better than suits 2 through 24 because of superior stats. EvE online had a problem with cruisers and frigates in this manner a tear 1 combat cruiser had half the slots of a tier 3 cruiser. Yes the two ships had different roles but because of a forced teiricide rule the tier one was not even allowed to be buffed past tier 1 requirements to even begin to compete against tier 3 or 4 cruisers. EvE destroyed these tiers and now all cruisers are viable in their own roles and equally valued. This is not codifying the game. It's eveifYing it more as your skills which reduce specific weapon and module fittings are now going to more heavily weighed in overall scheme of th8ngs. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 318	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:41:00 - [44] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Devadander wrote: What's really eating me now is wondering about all my assets. Will I get balac cores in place of my balacs? Do we have to purchase the bpo suits? If we already have pro, do we have to buy this skin? If cores cost more/less, do we get adjusted assets to reflect? shivers will it just be a mass asset refund like in the past? I think your concerns will be covered in a way that you keep your assets with no downsides. One of the aims of this idea (originally at least) is to adjust things without changing the overall setup - e.g. everything should still cost the same etc. I for one think we should stay well away from another asset refund because there is already too much ISK in the game. So much ISK that people are fighting their asses of in matches, oh wait no, no they aren't. Thor's Emporium
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:49:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: This looks absolutely great ! Something worth discussing: Do you want a core for every role, or have -strictly- 3 cores with all possible interactions "baked in"?? In other words: do you envision such a thing as "Basic Assault Core" and "Advanced Medium Frame Core"?? Consider that Assaults, Logis, Sentinels and Commandos all need to continue to have their own suits due to slot layout. Therefore having cores to match might be redundant. It might actually be more elegant to code the cores to react accordingly regardless of what suit they are installed into. Essentially, have only 3 cores. Stuff to think about. I would also suggest that for Officer Suits: allow them to be prefitted with their own core to solve whatever issues they cause. My dream, which I am currently running massive calculations on, is whether I can get away with a single Power Core per Size, and use Fitting bonuses to differentiate between Assault and Logistics etc. My preliminary results lead to yes. I don't understand this statement. Could you elaborate? "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:54:00 - [46] - Quote My question is concerning how you plan to balance fits and/or do you plan to buff cpu and PG accordingly? I am under the impression that PG/CPU is balanced according to the tier of modules a player ought to fit at basic/adv/proto. For example: I buy an adv power core for my ADV logi and the fit is identical to the 7 slots I have now. I'm short fitting space to fill the remaining two slots. With max skills, i have my all of my fits filled at the maximum of thier PG and CPU capacities. I simply dont have room for two more slots, without sacrificing my adv modules with basic ones that frankly dont cut it. Suggestion: Perhaps buff the standard and adv power cores of each race so that they can fit two more low tier modules to fill in the extra, unused space? So Basic can fit two more basic level modules, advanced 1 basic and one advanced? Proto gets the additional PG/CPU for another Proto module, so that can still be powerful with tiers, even if they keep the same fitting slots. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:23:00 - [47] - Quote I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:25:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. You have two 6's there. Hides from Rattati's wrath "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:26:00 - [49] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. You have two 6's there. Hides from Rattati's wrath Real life LOL "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:28:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. You have two 6's there. Hides from Rattati's wrath Real life LOL On a more serious note, the forums have always been like that. If you don't spell out your idea/suggestion in extreme detail and look at every loose end, people will get hung up on the most unimportant thing and completely derail the thread. It's a sad truth, and having the ability to predict thread derailment is a great asset here. "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:34:00 - [51] - Quote So I can see Basic suits/Assaults using the same powercore (with the [role core] applying its skill bonuses to the suit and maybe modifying some inherent stats) and I can see the same thing happening with heavies/sentinels and lights/scouts. I still think that logistics and commando's would need their own unique dropsuits though, because of slot layout differences. Overall though, this looks like good stuff. Is any of this stuff tenatively applicable to weapons? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:38:00 - [52] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: So I can see Basic suits/Assaults using the same powercore (with the [role core] applying its skill bonuses to the suit and maybe modifying some inherent stats) and I can see the same thing happening with heavies/sentinels and lights/scouts. I still think that logistics and commando's would need their own unique dropsuits though, because of slot layout differences. Overall though, this looks like good stuff. Is any of this stuff tenatively applicable to weapons? You can still do it Assault = 10 slots = 250/50, however fitting bonuses make it more like 300/60 Logistics = 13 slots = 250/50, fitting bonuses on equipment managed to fit the equivalent of 400/70 extreme random example "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:49:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff Don't worry, all the reasonable people like this idea. Cat Merc wrote: You have two 6's there. Hides from Rattati's wrath Rattati's Wrath sounds like an amusement park ride Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:51:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: So I can see Basic suits/Assaults using the same powercore (with the [role core] applying its skill bonuses to the suit and maybe modifying some inherent stats) and I can see the same thing happening with heavies/sentinels and lights/scouts. I still think that logistics and commando's would need their own unique dropsuits though, because of slot layout differences. Overall though, this looks like good stuff. Is any of this stuff tenatively applicable to weapons? You can still do it Assault = 10 slots = 250/50, however fitting bonuses make it more like 300/60 Logistics = 13 slots = 250/50, fitting bonuses on equipment managed to fit the equivalent of 400/70 extreme random example Oh nonono, I thought you had meant for Assaults and Logi's to use the same suit somehow. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 10:01:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff Had to quote it, its too good a line not to. I've posted my own my fair share of forum nastiness. About medium slot and fitting bonuses, though you'd like to know that Dust did have this system in place. Basic and assaults were identical, the only difference was is the suit bonuses. Alot of people used proto basic suits, depending on whether or not the assault bonus was worth it. In those old slayer logi days, they werent. Now if the all have the same number of slots, then there might be in increase in basic suits usagge. A halfway house between having an less SP intensive proto suit, or a more SP intensive proto suit with role bonuses. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
SponkSponkSponk WarRavens 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 10:54:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, Quote: * STD Power Core * APEX Power Core * ADV Power Core * PRO Power Core Discuss Hi, let's not forget: * Militia Power Core * Militia Power Core Blueprint (from militia suit BPOs) * STD Power Core Blueprint (from STD suit BPOs) Dust/Eve transfers
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 11:10:00 - [57] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff Don't worry, all the reasonable people like this idea. For real. I literally think people are just defending the concept of having hardcore advantages over other players through power-levels/tiers just so they can artificially stomp. God forbid we ever put everyone on a one-to-one basis and have things chalked up to actual player skill and fitting. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 11:58:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. It tickles me when you verbally choke a b*tch through the internet. This is all pretty much what the reasonable people have extrapolated (and said) about the intent for the tiericide thing. Just paint a huge bullseye on your ass and invite them to press their lips to it. except that guy. he nasty. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 885	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:08:00 - [59] - Quote So, are we doing away with basic frames? I think we should. Make light, medium and heavy power core skills, standard, advanced and prototype (9 cores), 3 skill branches. Remove basic frame skill branches and allow people to skill directly into the specialised suit. Link basic frame skins to the power core branch (all four races at level 1, 3 and 5) and assault skins to the racial assault branch. So, for example, you could put 1 point into dropsuit command, one point into Caldari assault, and 5 points into medium power cores. This would allow you to use a Caldari assault dropsuit, with a prototype power core, but with only Caldari assault bonuses at level one. You could fit it with any of the 3 basic frame skins or the standard assault skin. How does that sound?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:09:00 - [60] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: For real. I literally think people are just defending the concept of having hardcore advantages over other players through power-levels/tiers just so they can artificially stomp. God forbid we ever put everyone on a one-to-one basis and have things chalked up to actual player skill and fitting. Wait wait wait. You mean that makig new players want to ragequit within thirty minutes of finishing eatig 20GB of their monthly bandwidth is BAD??!?!?!?!?!??! WHO COULD HAVE KNOWN THIS??? Oh wait, everyone. Carry on. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:10:00 - [61] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. You have two 6's there. Hides from Rattati's wrath Real life LOL On a more serious note, the forums have always been like that. If you don't spell out your idea/suggestion in extreme detail and look at every loose end, people will get hung up on the most unimportant thing and completely derail the thread. It's a sad truth, and having the ability to predict thread derailment is a great asset here. Good job grabbing that before someone else made a 5-line post about it. On the gear cost idea, my main opposition to CCP Z's stated model last year was that we would keep the power creep while removing the cost entirely from suits. If the suit is a single piece of hardware that can't function without the power core, I'm sure all the really hardcore lore obsessors who say that suit cost needs to stay could be headed off by some kind of in-game blurb about the WarBarge producing the suits from the blueprint being dirt cheap. I love this model and look forward to it making it less frustrating for new players to get started. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:11:00 - [62] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, Quote: * STD Power Core * APEX Power Core * ADV Power Core * PRO Power Core Discuss Hi, let's not forget: * Militia Power Core * Militia Power Core Blueprint (from militia suit BPOs) * STD Power Core Blueprint (from STD suit BPOs) Agreed! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:13:00 - [63] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, Quote: * STD Power Core * APEX Power Core * ADV Power Core * PRO Power Core Discuss Hi, let's not forget: * Militia Power Core * Militia Power Core Blueprint (from militia suit BPOs) * STD Power Core Blueprint (from STD suit BPOs) Agreed! So my Raven Assault C-1 would basically become a STD Core Blueprint with a SKIN? Sweet. As a minor detail, could we keep white and black for ADV tier? Amarr and Gallente Assault especially look badass as hell with that color scheme. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:22:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. Well for instance... how would you balance the power of a suit that has a spare high or low slot? Right now i can make apex suits that are functionally superior to an adv suit but only costs me 20k isk. for example, the power of a caldari assault suit comes from its short shield delays and high shield recharge. the low pg of cal suits isnt an issue when complex shield regulators cost only 3 pg and all shield rechargers and energizers cost zero pg. all i add is a cpu mod and i have a fit that only differs from my proto build by 100 hp, 0.10 shield recharge hp/s, and the cardiac regulator i would use. i get a proto ARR on this apex suit too. so im predicting that the use of proto powercores will actually be very limited since the real limiting factor of suits has jusr been removed. the use of fitting mods will go up because the a 5k isk cpu mod is alot more appealing than a 81k isk powercore. wait a few months add youll see it in the data
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 466	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:23:00 - [65] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff Don't worry, all the reasonable people like this idea. Confirm. Rattati, could you please increase hard limit on how much items you can buy on market at once, with that Power Cores? Buying stacks of 100 was always tiresome, and now when several different suit will be the same item(S/A/P Power Core) people will fell a sleep while trying to buy 10-15k of those. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:23:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, Quote: * STD Power Core * APEX Power Core * ADV Power Core * PRO Power Core Discuss Hi, let's not forget: * Militia Power Core * Militia Power Core Blueprint (from militia suit BPOs) * STD Power Core Blueprint (from STD suit BPOs) Agreed! will there be APEX powercores?
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:29:00 - [67] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff Don't worry, all the reasonable people like this idea. Confirm. Rattati, could you please increase hard limit on how much items you can buy on market at once, with that Power Cores? Buying stacks of 100 was always tiresome, and now when several different suit will be the same item(S/A/P Power Core) people will fell a sleep while trying to buy 10-15k of those. I think part of the issue is how Python handles inventory. Back in the Closed Beta, some friend's of mine found a way to get ISK from EVE to Dust while we were still on Singularity, and gave everyone in BetaMax. 1 billion ISK. Not long after CCP nothin showed up in IRC freaking out because everyone was stacking thousands upon thousands of vehicles and suits and it was making the much smaller database of the test server go crazy. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 370	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:58:00 - [68] - Quote A lot of details to be worked out, but all-in-all a very promising change. :) Questions: 1a: Can we get a hard confirm that Specializations (i.e. Assault vs Logi) have different slots? 1b: Can we get a hard confirm that Races (i.e. Cal Assault vs Amarr Assault) have different slots? 2: Stating the obvious, but getting it out there anyway: We'll need to reevaluate CPU/PG mods. Do you have any early thoughts on this, or are you happy with them in the new system? 3: Will APEX suits get more slots? As it stands, extra slots on STD suit means you can costlessly buff it to near ADV with BPO CPU/PG mods. If APEX are getting more slots, will they be Yellow or empty?

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:58:00 - [69] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, Quote: * STD Power Core * APEX Power Core * ADV Power Core * PRO Power Core Discuss Hi, let's not forget: * Militia Power Core * Militia Power Core Blueprint (from militia suit BPOs) * STD Power Core Blueprint (from STD suit BPOs) Agreed! will there be APEX powercores? What does the picture say? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 13:08:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: What does the picture say? It had to be done. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 13:20:00 - [71] - Quote First Thought: \o/ Second Thought: Skinned units would definitely standout in a battlefield full of Gray, Red, or Black units. I like it. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 13:25:00 - [72] - Quote I think it's been said: Reasonable people agree with this. As a secondary topic on the user experience side of this: I feel like 'powercores' are not an intuitive entity to interact with. Ask 10 people that don't know the forums what a powercore is - I don't think they'll guess right. Are you opposed to baking the powercores into the suits as a prefit item? That way this change becomes transparent to the players. Buy an advanced Amarr Assault suit, receive a medium suit called "Amarr Assault A/1" that has an advanced medium powercore prefit. This prefit powerfore can be hidden or visible. I think I prefer hidden for the user experience advantage - but if anyone finds a problem with that I wouldn't mind. I'm assuming here that all cool BPOs will become skin modules in the future, so you'll have a standard suit BPO to save ISK and a cool skin to put on your pro and advanced suits. That means hidden powercores cause no losses in vet-experience, but new players have one less concept to learn during the first two weeks. Also, will you do the same to vehicles? I assume they have the same memory-consumption problem. Next up, tier- and skin-modules for weapons?
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 13:59:00 - [73] - Quote I do not understand how people do not understand how tiericide works. Can you muthaducks tie your own shoes or do they have to be velcro? Tiericide flattens power creep, while keeping progression and advancement tied to player investment. Or do i have to simplify it more? Old players are still god mode becaufitting knowledge and dust-mechanical knowledge. Newbros get a fighting chance due to have the same, albeit gimped, layouts. Sometimes I THINK you're r-tarded, most times I KNOW you're r-tarded. I less than three you DUST forums.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 14:00:00 - [74] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: will there be APEX powercores? What does the picture say? lol ok. cool. here's another question... did you reduce the fitting on APEX suits today and why?
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 14:02:00 - [75] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: will there be APEX powercores? What does the picture say? lol ok. cool. here's another question... did you reduce the fitting on APEX suits today and why? Because people where stacking lots of complex modules and a proto weapon because fitting modules allowed them to do so like youve explained earlier in this thread? Sometimes I THINK you're r-tarded, most times I KNOW you're r-tarded. I less than three you DUST forums.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5	Posted - 2015.05.26 14:17:00 - [76] - Quote This is amazing. Keep up the great work Rattati! Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 14:42:00 - [77] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? This is CCP Z's fanfest proposal for 'you are your dropsuit' with the skill progression removed. PSN: RationalSpark
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 828	Posted - 2015.05.26 14:47:00 - [78] - Quote I bought an APEX 'Ratesu' that comes prefit with a bolt pistol. Do I get a Bolt Pistol BPO? Pretty please?

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:02:00 - [79] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? This is CCP Z's fanfest proposal for 'you are your dropsuit' with the skill progression removed. no "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:13:00 - [80] - Quote Rattati, I am so excited you seem to have this working and even looking better than I thought by not having a ton of power cores as well. Very exciting time in Dust. Some questions 1) Are we actually sticking with the power core name? 2) Can power cores affect other base stats besides CPU/PG? 3) Could a power core be unlocked from the same skill as another but apply a different bonus? This meaning the class racial bonus applies to the core rather than the suit and can thus be swapped with a variant type with a different skill bonus? One step at a time I know, just having fun thinking long term. 4) Officer power cores? Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:25:00 - [81] - Quote 1) no idea 2) they can, but not slots 3) not sure, not even sure I understand the question :) 4) yes, but not critical "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Avallo Kantor 808	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:29:00 - [82] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 1) no idea 2) they can, but not slots 3) not sure, not even sure I understand the question :) 4) yes, but not critical By 4, I believe Aero is talking about the idea of moving the bonus of a suit to the powercore, for instance having an Amarr Assault powercore that has the 5% laser heat reduction attached to the powercore and not the suit. (So the bonus a suit gets is tied to a powercore) Then you could add additional powercores such as Amarr Assault who, for example, gets +5% to ASCR RoF instead of the heat build up for example. Basically, it would allow you to have multiple 'B-type" suit bonuses without the need to add new classes to the game. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:34:00 - [83] - Quote So what I meant by question 3 is changing the racial bonus of the suits. Take a Minmatar Assault for example which has a role bonus to clip size of projectile weapons but isn't as useful for mass drivers. Or all the logis which get a role bonus to a specific piece of equipment which is very limiting. What I'm suggesting is if the role bonus could change based on what power core you have fitted to accommodate a wider variety of play styles. So like a Assault Type-2 Power Core. This would also play into question 2 of changing some base stats to make the variant more interesting. It would be analogous to how in EVE you have your ship classes (Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers, etc) but each race had more than just one type of frigate and so on and they have different bonuses per level of the same skill. Again, more longterm but I believe it's an interesting avenue to explore. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:35:00 - [84] - Quote As stated before, this proposal is good for the game insofar as it gives us improved performance or allows the devs to bring in other assets/mechanics. Will it improve the NPE? Perhaps yes and definitely no. It might be a little easier for peeps to wrap their heads around, but then again when you think about fitting concepts and what you need to know about the game's systems to effectively fit a dropsuit, this change will make very little difference at all. While it flattens Dust's power curve, it will make max-cored vets on average relatively more powerful: For those who were already running proto/officer 24/7 not much will change, other than their weak prey becoming trivially less weak. For those vets who were running STD/ADV in pubs, this will level them up to their proto brothers a bit, and give them a net gain on newer players since vets have more PG/CPU/use it more efficiently and get more performance out of each module. - Will it change player retention? Hopefully, but at this point the only way i can see that happening is if we get a performance improvement out of it. Does it increase immersion/bring us closer to New Eden? No, it takes us a little farther away from New Eden. There is no BPO in EVE that allows you to build and lose ships at no cost. What are these dropsuits made out of? Woven from the wishes of RMT game designers, perhaps? So far as i can see, there is nothing about the EVE model that makes it unworkable for DUST - ISK can stand in as a proxy for the entire BPO-BPC-minerals-manufacture cycle with a net gain in immersion at no cost to DUST. Will this change stomping? No. Is this an attractive, aesthetic idea? Absolutely. What effect will implementing this idea pay us for the devtime invested? Consider Dust's primary needs in order of importance: Retention, Performance, Known Bugs, Connection to New Eden, Missing/Incomplete Systems, Missing/Incomplete Content. Which of those needs will the power core idea address? Performance and Content only, imo. In terms of my personal playstyle, power cores are a net gain. In terms of my investment in New Eden, magic bpo dropsuits are a net loss. In terms of the player experience in Dust, power cores are valuable if they improve performance/content. How much, in terms of in-match frames per second, menu loading times & new assets, will implementing power cores bring to Dust? PSN: RationalSpark
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:38:00 - [85] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 1) no idea 2) they can, but not slots 3) not sure, not even sure I understand the question :) 4) yes, but not critical By 4, I believe Aero is talking about the idea of moving the bonus of a suit to the powercore, for instance having an Amarr Assault powercore that has the 5% laser heat reduction attached to the powercore and not the suit. (So the bonus a suit gets is tied to a powercore) Then you could add additional powercores such as Amarr Assault who, for example, gets +5% to ASCR RoF instead of the heat build up for example. Basically, it would allow you to have multiple 'B-type" suit bonuses without the need to add new classes to the game. This is exactly what I mean. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:41:00 - [86] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: As stated before, this proposal is good for the game insofar as it gives us improved performance or allows the devs to bring in other assets/mechanics. Will it improve the NPE? Perhaps yes and definitely no. It might be a little easier for peeps to wrap their heads around, but then again when you think about fitting concepts and what you need to know about the game's systems to effectively fit a dropsuit, this change will make very little difference at all. While it flattens Dust's power curve, it will make max-cored vets on average relatively more powerful: For those who were already running proto/officer 24/7 not much will change, other than their weak prey becoming trivially less weak. For those vets who were running STD/ADV in pubs, this will level them up to their proto brothers a bit, and give them a net gain on newer players since vets have more PG/CPU/use it more efficiently and get more performance out of each module. - Will it change player retention? Hopefully, but at this point the only way i can see that happening is if we get a performance improvement out of it. Does it increase immersion/bring us closer to New Eden? No, it takes us a little farther away from New Eden. There is no BPO in EVE that allows you to build and lose ships at no cost. What are these dropsuits made out of? Woven from the wishes of RMT game designers, perhaps? So far as i can see, there is nothing about the EVE model that makes it unworkable for DUST - ISK can stand in as a proxy for the entire BPO-BPC-minerals-manufacture cycle with a net gain in immersion at no cost to DUST. Will this change stomping? No. Is this an attractive, aesthetic idea? Absolutely. What effect will implementing this idea pay us for the devtime invested? Consider Dust's primary needs in order of importance: Retention, Performance, Known Bugs, Connection to New Eden, Missing/Incomplete Systems, Missing/Incomplete Content. Which of those needs will the power core idea address? Performance and Content only, imo. In terms of my personal playstyle, power cores are a net gain. In terms of my investment in New Eden, magic bpo dropsuits are a net loss. In terms of the player experience in Dust, power cores are valuable if they improve performance/content. How much, in terms of in-match frames per second, menu loading times & new assets, will implementing power cores bring to Dust? OK, they cost one ISK because they are mass manufactured and the power comes from the modules that are expensive. Now they are no longer BPO's. Does it change anything in the economy? No. Does it no longer violate New Eden's rule of no BPO's. Yes. Then it must be better, right? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:42:00 - [87] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? This is CCP Z's fanfest proposal for 'you are your dropsuit' with the skill progression removed. no If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck..... Maybe your 'No.' stands on a technicality, but this current proposal is much closer to what Z proposed that what we've had, so.... No. PSN: RationalSpark
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 628	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:47:00 - [88] - Quote My only concern is that you lay out a proper course of what you will do with the BPO dropsuits players have already purchased. My prefered course of action would be that each dropsuit BPO gets converted into a power core BPO and a skin BPO. I love everything else about this proposal and support it.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:48:00 - [89] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? This is CCP Z's fanfest proposal for 'you are your dropsuit' with the skill progression removed. no If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck..... Maybe your 'No.' stands on a technicality, but this current proposal is much closer to what Z proposed that what we've had, so.... No. How is skill progression removed in this proposal? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:52:00 - [90] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: In terms of my personal playstyle, power cores are a net gain. In terms of my investment in New Eden, magic bpo dropsuits are a net loss. In terms of the player experience in Dust, power cores are valuable if they improve performance/content. How much, in terms of in-match frames per second, menu loading times & new assets, will implementing power cores bring to Dust? OK, they cost one ISK because they are mass manufactured and the power comes from the modules that are expensive. Now they are no longer BPO's. Does it change anything in the economy? No. Does it no longer violate New Eden's rule of no BPO's. Yes. Then it must be better, right? The real question is do we someday want players in New Eden manufacturing Dust assets from in-game resources? When i say immersion-breaking that's really what i'm getting at - the idea that someday we will be integrated with EVE. In which case the 1 ISK dropsuit doesn't make much sense, except in an arbitrary technical 'letter of the law' sense. Why not design Dust in a way that is consistent with the universe it's embedded in? PSN: RationalSpark

Devadander Woodgrain Atari 287	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:52:00 - [91] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: My only concern is that you lay out a proper course of what you will do with the BPO dropsuits players have already purchased. My prefered course of action would be that each dropsuit BPO gets converted into a power core BPO and a skin BPO. I love everything else about this proposal and support it. Yes, some of us have multiples of the same BPO. Hoping those survive into the tradable era. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:53:00 - [92] - Quote Why is it so hard for people to accept the idea of Dropsuits being extremely cheap to manufacture with negligible costs, just a regular old suit, but having no practical use until attached to a power core with substantially higher costs? This allowing us to ignore the base suit costs all together in our transaction history due to bring so small? This is still New Eden. If you die you lose stuff. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:57:00 - [93] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? This is CCP Z's fanfest proposal for 'you are your dropsuit' with the skill progression removed. no If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck..... Maybe your 'No.' stands on a technicality, but this current proposal is much closer to what Z proposed that what we've had, so.... No. How is skill progression removed in this proposal? What if meant was that in Z's original FF proposal, movement through the suit trees was necessary for unlocking weapons/equipment, which was really the thing that players reacted most strongly to. That is not the case with the current power core proposal, thankfully. But the removal of the dropsuit as something actually manufactured in New Eden is much closer to what Z proposed. At any rate i don't want to derail the thread. If this gets us performance improvements, i'm for it, the death of a little piece of my New Eden soul not withstanding. o7 PSN: RationalSpark
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 16:02:00 - [94] - Quote Just a thought- perhaps std and adv power cores need to be slightly cheaper than std and adv suits are now, because there will be more slots available, and therefore higher fitting costs. Aloha snackbar
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 16:05:00 - [95] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: In terms of my personal playstyle, power cores are a net gain. In terms of my investment in New Eden, magic bpo dropsuits are a net loss. In terms of the player experience in Dust, power cores are valuable if they improve performance/content. How much, in terms of in-match frames per second, menu loading times & new assets, will implementing power cores bring to Dust? OK, they cost one ISK because they are mass manufactured and the power comes from the modules that are expensive. Now they are no longer BPO's. Does it change anything in the economy? No. Does it no longer violate New Eden's rule of no BPO's. Yes. Then it must be better, right? The real question is do we someday want players in New Eden manufacturing Dust assets from in-game resources? When i say immersion-breaking that's really what i'm getting at - the idea that someday we will be integrated with EVE. In which case the 1 ISK dropsuit doesn't make much sense, except in an arbitrary technical 'letter of the law' sense. Why not design Dust in a way that is consistent with the universe it's embedded in? Players manufacture power cores instead of suits? Look, I'm heavy into the lore and am part of an Amarr exclusive RP corp for crying out loud, but even I know gameplay and function always comes before lore and any inconsistencies can always be retconned or cleverly adjusted. For instance: The current dropsuits we are using now are malfunctioning and the costs of maintaining a factory to produce these suits as they are currently is becoming too high to remain profitable. A team of engineers is tasked with addressing this problem (I vote Aero and Avallo) and come up with the solution to centralize to suits power in a small core that directs the power to the rest of the suit. As a result of a more centralized system bugs with sir operation are easier to address and factories can be slimmed down by working on small cores opposed to whole suits, and suit production can then be outsourced to a smaller less high tech factory reducing the costs drastically. I came up with that on the spot, I'm sure something better can be established with more thought. But it goes to serve my point how easy it is to address the lore when key new gameplay elements are introduced. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 16:08:00 - [96] - Quote Vrain wrote: What i meant was that in Z's original FF proposal, movement through the suit trees was necessary for unlocking weapons/equipment, which was really the thing that players reacted most strongly to. That is not the case with the current power core proposal, thankfully. But the removal of the dropsuit as something actually manufactured in New Eden is much closer to what Z proposed. At any rate i don't want to derail the thread. If this gets us performance improvements, i'm for it, the death of a little piece of my New Eden soul not withstanding. o7 Z removed dropsuits from being a produced asset without anything to replace it. Power cores replace it. Not even remotely the same idea as Z. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 287	Posted - 2015.05.26 16:08:00 - [97] - Quote Love the skins, love the cores, don't care for tiericide... But I will htfu. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 16:13:00 - [98] - Quote Devadander wrote: Love the skins, love the cores, don't care for tiericide... But I will htfu. Hehe, well Rattati just said slots aren't adjustable with cores so tiericide was needed for everything else to work. I'll admit performance increase was a Trojan horse (albeit a very beneficial one) for tiericide when I made the other thread. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
PLAYSTTION Corrosive Synergy No Context 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 16:18:00 - [99] - Quote Would this be removing basic frame suits? I think their should be 5 power cores. 1 per level on the suit. that way the skill changes more and level 2 and 4 gets you things. Would the proto skin be what it is now? Advanced skin be the role colour? Basic suit skin the basic frame frame colour? Would everybody have the empty BPO of every suit and need to skill the power core to use it? Gassault Galogi Galsent Galmando Galscout `Open Beta Vet - 43 mil sp Director of Corrosive Synergy`
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 16:35:00 - [100] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: OK, they cost one ISK because they are mass manufactured and the power comes from the modules that are expensive. Now they are no longer BPO's. Does it change anything in the economy? No. Does it no longer violate New Eden's rule of no BPO's. Yes. Then it must be better, right? Well, it wasn't so much a rule of 'no BPO's so much as 'no BPO without -SOME- kind of cost'. You can get a BPO and make endless amounts of ships but you still had to buy and/or accumulate the materials to manufacture that endless amount of ships. Point in case: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Myrmidon_Blueprint And I -really- hate it when people bring up the Rookie ship as a legitimate argument because it isn't one. I'm just saying CCP Rattati wrote: How is skill progression removed in this proposal? Lol... Probably means slot-progression... Which was always a terrible mechanic from start to finish... You got the win because of an artificial gain in power that you spent more ISK on whereas if we both had the same power-level gear, I would have won through skill and a better fit. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!

Avallo Kantor 808	Posted - 2015.05.26 17:09:00 - [101] - Quote Eve Pilots also don't need to pay for their pods. They get those for free. Same concept. The pod, like the suit i the power core module, is basically just the thing you slot in the important bits. (slot a pod into a real ship, or slot a powercore into the useless suit) Either way it is the same concept, there is some essential lore-important item that is 'free' because it is pretty pointless to assign a cost to it. The real meat of what makes the game tick is in the items you actually pay for. (Ships / powercores) Also, I -really- don't see why we are even having this argument. Nothing changes, and we still lose all our ISK assets when we die. The value of losing a suit does not change by a single ISK Cent, and it doesn't even change the number of things you have to buy. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 17:15:00 - [102] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: So what I meant by question 3 is changing the racial bonus of the suits. Take a Minmatar Assault for example which has a role bonus to clip size of projectile weapons but isn't as useful for mass drivers. Or all the logis which get a role bonus to a specific piece of equipment which is very limiting. What I'm suggesting is if the role bonus could change based on what power core you have fitted to accommodate a wider variety of play styles. So like a Assault Type-2 Power Core. This would also play into question 2 of changing some base stats to make the variant more interesting. It would be analogous to how in EVE you have your ship classes (Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers, etc) but each race had more than just one type of frigate and so on and they have different bonuses per level of the same skill. Again, more longterm but I believe it's an interesting avenue to explore. The idea is to keep roles attached to the suits. There will still be a Caldari Assault Suit and an Amarr Logistics Suit, etc.. The cores themselves will just be Light: (Mlt) Basic Adv Proto Medium: (Mlt) Basic Adv Proto Heavy: (Mlt) Basic Adv Proto Potentially only 12 cores, + any unique cores that come "prefit" on officer suits. If we move the bonuses from suits to cores, we will save on a couple of suits, but the number of cores will drastically increase. You'll need a core for EVERY RACE and EVERY ROLE. I'm not against it, but it's just something you have to think about. I like the idea of having fewer cores. Since the suits are tied to slot layout, it seems natural that they should also dictate role bonus. Thoughts? Know what cannot be known.
Al the destroyer 0uter.Heaven 362	Posted - 2015.05.26 17:16:00 - [103] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: My only concern is that you lay out a proper course of what you will do with the BPO dropsuits players have already purchased. My prefered course of action would be that each dropsuit BPO gets converted into a power core BPO and a skin BPO. I love everything else about this proposal and support it. This^^^ I do love the power core idea. I'm a little worried about my BPO dropsuits but overall can't wait for my fittings to be uncluttered could you plz explain what is going to happen with my BPO droosuits
Aiwha Bait Demonic Cowboys 158	Posted - 2015.05.26 17:36:00 - [104] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, [img]http://puu.sh/i0Qfj/5f3d7dc537.png[/img] Discuss Oh my sweet Rattati, that price jump between ADV and Proto power core is ridiculously high. D: I try to play this game, I just suck at it. Writer for Biomassed
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 17:42:00 - [105] - Quote Aiwha Bait wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, [img]http://puu.sh/i0Qfj/5f3d7dc537.png[/img] Discuss Oh my sweet Rattati, that price jump between ADV and Proto power core is ridiculously high. D: seems like random numbers to get the point across, not the actual numbers that will be used. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 17:46:00 - [106] - Quote I don't like the price hike for the suits at pro. other'n that, golden. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 17:58:00 - [107] - Quote I still don't like APEX suits being superior to standard suits. It's a bit pay-to-win. Before APEX suits, Dust had a very fair microtransaction model. Aloha snackbar
Avallo Kantor 810	Posted - 2015.05.26 18:09:00 - [108] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I still don't like APEX suits being superior to standard suits. It's a bit pay-to-win. Before APEX suits, Dust had a very fair microtransaction model. They are still inferior to both ADV and Proto suits, both of which can be obtained purely via ISK. It's not really pay to win if you can't use it to be competitive. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Al the destroyer 0uter.Heaven 362	Posted - 2015.05.26 18:22:00 - [109] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I still don't like APEX suits being superior to standard suits. It's a bit pay-to-win. Before APEX suits, Dust had a very fair microtransaction model. Let's stay on topic I'm sure there are other threads discussing PTW
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 18:26:00 - [110] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I still don't like APEX suits being superior to standard suits. It's a bit pay-to-win. Before APEX suits, Dust had a very fair microtransaction model. They are still inferior to both ADV and Proto suits, both of which can be obtained purely via ISK. It's not really pay to win if you can't use it to be competitive. I believe he's referring to how Apex Cores sit somewhere between basic and advanced in the model outline (the picture in OP). If Apex become suits that are still prefit with modules that must ALL be filled + prefit Apex Core, then I suppose it's OK for the core to be unique and sit somewhere beyond basic. If, however, Apex is replaced by a SKIN + Core that can be applied liberally, then I would want that Core to be of basic power, not more. This is JUST my opinion, though. Know what cannot be known.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.26 18:28:00 - [111] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? This is CCP Z's fanfest proposal for 'you are your dropsuit' with the skill progression removed. CCP Z's model basically Wowified the various suits into their own classes with branching progression as you climbed their tree however unlike eve or dust 514 the things you could fit where pre determined by the tree skill unlocks instead of full freedom we currently enjoy. Suits would have become BPOs in this model as they're supposed to be player representation and should have more attachment value than currently expressed than eve online's ships even. There are merits and there are bad things about the model. Bad things is removing the freedom to make bad mistakes. Bad things is now you have to pit one role against another role as a whole when it comes to balancing this becomes an intricate headache of a larger magnitude requiring a deep control of the entire picture something to which CCP Rattati would be needing reinforcements to accomplish in a very smooth manner. Good things are the BPO suits; yes it seems uneve like but considering how often a player dies in dust 514 its a bit disheartening psychologically to have everything die every time. Cores piggybacks this idea into not only accomplishing a sense of attachment but retains the eve demanded costs of risks and risk evaluations. Bottom line - funner than eve but retains eve like characteristics thus ergo Dust 514 goal met. Another good thing I would like to see brought in is the tree training; not as a mandatory thing but as a recommendation and optional way of developing your role and various kinds of subroles players come up with. A training regiment; you will still be able to frakenstien your suits but the idea of the training tree is to help explain to new players as to why this role fit is synergized. Like due to this suit having large amount of low slots and semi natural high speed armor plate tanking may be viable option significantly raising hp without using more useful precious high slots for more utilitarian things to also help survive such as more advanced sensors. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Avallo Kantor 811	Posted - 2015.05.26 19:16:00 - [112] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Another good thing I would like to see brought in is the tree training; not as a mandatory thing in what CCP Z would suggest; but as a recommendation and optional way of developing your role and various kinds of subroles players come up with. A training regiment, if you will. Players will still be able to frakenstien your suits but the idea of the training tree is to help explain to new players as to why this role fit is synergized. Like due to this suit having large amount of low slots and semi natural high speed armor plate tanking may be viable option significantly raising hp without using more useful precious high slots for more utilitarian things to also help survive such as more advanced sensors. Then I would lace it with rewards, and active goals (kill 100 players as an assault caldari suit; assist in 50 kills with mass driver ect ect) Free BPOs free skins free isk and free aur gear for previewing more powerful things. Wouldn't this be easier by having some sort of persistant missions, rather like what was done with the recent triathlon challenge? Think of a second mission panel with missions that don't expire, and do the things you describe. Perhaps with missions that only appear after other missions have been completed, etc? [Sorry, don't mean to derail the thread] "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.26 19:45:00 - [113] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Another good thing I would like to see brought in is the tree training; not as a mandatory thing in what CCP Z would suggest; but as a recommendation and optional way of developing your role and various kinds of subroles players come up with. A training regiment, if you will. Players will still be able to frakenstien your suits but the idea of the training tree is to help explain to new players as to why this role fit is synergized. Like due to this suit having large amount of low slots and semi natural high speed armor plate tanking may be viable option significantly raising hp without using more useful precious high slots for more utilitarian things to also help survive such as more advanced sensors. Then I would lace it with rewards, and active goals (kill 100 players as an assault caldari suit; assist in 50 kills with mass driver ect ect) Free BPOs free skins free isk and free aur gear for previewing more powerful things. Wouldn't this be easier by having some sort of persistant missions, rather like what was done with the recent triathlon challenge? Think of a second mission panel with missions that don't expire, and do the things you describe. Perhaps with missions that only appear after other missions have been completed, etc? [Sorry, don't mean to derail the thread] easier does not mean proper; a proper feature would have this place as an easily cataloged, editable, and extendable format. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
RedBleach LeSanglant Molon Labe. RUST415 826	Posted - 2015.05.26 20:40:00 - [114] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My plan is to see if I can roll out the first part of this, for Commandos and Logistics, and hit 3 birds with one stone. That would remove slot progression, and define the true PG/CPU per layer. When I am able to get a Power Core module in (needs a client update), then phase 2 is the replacement of dropsuits with Power Cores. Kinda love you a little bit right now :) Thank you for looking into this. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 689	Posted - 2015.05.26 21:01:00 - [115] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: In terms of my personal playstyle, power cores are a net gain. In terms of my investment in New Eden, magic bpo dropsuits are a net loss. In terms of the player experience in Dust, power cores are valuable if they improve performance/content. How much, in terms of in-match frames per second, menu loading times & new assets, will implementing power cores bring to Dust? OK, they cost one ISK because they are mass manufactured and the power comes from the modules that are expensive. Now they are no longer BPO's. Does it change anything in the economy? No. Does it no longer violate New Eden's rule of no BPO's. Yes. Then it must be better, right? The real question is do we someday want players in New Eden manufacturing Dust assets from in-game resources? When i say immersion-breaking that's really what i'm getting at - the idea that someday we will be integrated with EVE. In which case the 1 ISK dropsuit doesn't make much sense, except in an arbitrary technical 'letter of the law' sense. Why not design Dust in a way that is consistent with the universe it's embedded in? I want you to do something: Do some research of what 1 ISK is supposed to be worth in New Eden. Hint: You could buy Google with 1 ISK, from what I last read. 1 ISK is not peanuts. That's why the BPO makes sense - 1 ISK is nothing to immortals, meaning that our employers are likely to just throw the suits at us for free, as the complicated parts are in the power core. At the same time, even a BPO (i.e. a suit that is so cheap that you don't even calculate its value) suit might be 0.01 ISK, which would still be an insane amount of money for any non-immortal. Enough to buy your own ******* island or something like that. Always keep in mind the scale. Just look at your real clothes. A shirt is ten bucks, maybe. The material for the shirt is maybe one buck. And then there's two cents or so that go to the person who made your shirt. Ten bucks is nothing for you and for two bucks, you'd buy t-shirts in bulk. The two cents for assembling the shirt are so cheap that you'd consider them a rounding error. You'd throw those two cents away if they didn't fit into your wallet. The price of the shirt stems entirely from the material and the shipping. The assembly never factors into it. And that's exactly how BPO dropsuits work. The price of the dropsuit is so neglegible that it's nothing to an immortal. Meanwhile, the person who assembled your t-shirt actually considers two cents per shirt to be real pay. Similar to how 1 ISK could buy you Greece. Note: I took these numbers out of thin air and based them on past exploitation scandals. I have no idea if they are actually that bad, or even worse.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 21:06:00 - [116] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Eve Pilots also don't need to pay for their pods. They get those for free. Same concept. The pod, like the suit i the power core module, is basically just the thing you slot in the important bits. (slot a pod into a real ship, or slot a powercore into the useless suit) Either way it is the same concept, there is some essential lore-important item that is 'free' because it is pretty pointless to assign a cost to it. The real meat of what makes the game tick is in the items you actually pay for. (Ships / powercores) Also, I -really- don't see why we are even having this argument. Nothing changes, and we still lose all our ISK assets when we die. The value of losing a suit does not change by a single ISK Cent, and it doesn't even change the number of things you have to buy. The dropsuit is like the ship. If you want to compare the pod to anything, compare it to the clone inside the dropsuit, which is also free. The premise is that Ship BPO's in Eve Online still have a material debt. You still have to go and procure all the minerals to construct the ship itself and nothing is exempt from that. There is loss and value to everything. T2 ships have higher, risk-intensive material costs (exploration procured) and T3 are even -more- risk intensive (wormhole space). The only way you could ever compare a Dropsuit BPO to that of a Ship BPO is if someone is out there mining for steel/tungsten/aluminum whatever to put the things together - that isn't the case, so it needs an ISK cost. And it's not so much that hyper-traditionalists like myself WANT players to suffer debt and the inability to fund their war efforts... It's just that we want them to consider what they're losing and legitimately question whether or not it was worth it in retrospect. We want players to actually -feel- the impact of losing that suit because The Endless Cycle entails Buying Gear, Fighting in battle for pay/losing gear, and then buying gear to continue the cycle. That's why it's called The Endless Cycle. If you take out the ISK factor than it's not so much a cycle as a rail-roaded money making simulator. This isn't even to say that I'm against BPOs - I'm not - I'm just against their power. A rookie ship in Eve (being free) can't go out and topple empires. It's impossible due to the game's design. A BPO Dropsuit can, provided the player is skillful enough, because the fitting disparity isn't enough to give the person who's paying ISK such a competitive edge that the BPO is fundamentally useless. There is nothing more frustrating than running Prototype/Specialist/Experimental/Officer gear and getting blown up be RE's on an APEX suit, or two-shotted by a Shotgunner APEX. It's really undermining the effort, time, and skill progression I went through for that amount of power when this dude isn't losing anything. He shelled out real-life money and now never has to suffer the feeling of risk because if he dies he can just come right back and continue making a profit. Is my gear better than his? Technically, yes, but he is just as capable of killing me as anyone else. That isn't the case in Eve which has guaranteed advantages toward certain dependent conditions to form a true rock/paper/scissors element. In Dust's case, it's not so much Rock/Paper/Scissors because they're all capable of beating one another, just with minor variations in how long it takes. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.26 21:08:00 - [117] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: In terms of my personal playstyle, power cores are a net gain. In terms of my investment in New Eden, magic bpo dropsuits are a net loss. In terms of the player experience in Dust, power cores are valuable if they improve performance/content. How much, in terms of in-match frames per second, menu loading times & new assets, will implementing power cores bring to Dust? OK, they cost one ISK because they are mass manufactured and the power comes from the modules that are expensive. Now they are no longer BPO's. Does it change anything in the economy? No. Does it no longer violate New Eden's rule of no BPO's. Yes. Then it must be better, right? The real question is do we someday want players in New Eden manufacturing Dust assets from in-game resources? When i say immersion-breaking that's really what i'm getting at - the idea that someday we will be integrated with EVE. In which case the 1 ISK dropsuit doesn't make much sense, except in an arbitrary technical 'letter of the law' sense. Why not design Dust in a way that is consistent with the universe it's embedded in? I want you to do something: Do some research of what 1 ISK is supposed to be worth in New Eden. Hint: You could buy Google with 1 ISK, from what I last read. 1 ISK is not peanuts. That's why the BPO makes sense - 1 ISK is nothing to immortals, meaning that our employers are likely to just throw the suits at us for free, as the complicated parts are in the power core. At the same time, even a BPO (i.e. a suit that is so cheap that you don't even calculate its value) suit might be 0.01 ISK, which would still be an insane amount of money for any non-immortal. Enough to buy your own ******* island or something like that. Always keep in mind the scale. Just look at your real clothes. A shirt is ten bucks, maybe. The material for the shirt is maybe one buck. And then there's two cents or so that go to the person who made your shirt. Ten bucks is nothing for you and for two bucks, you'd buy t-shirts in bulk. The two cents for assembling the shirt are so cheap that you'd consider them a rounding error. You'd throw those two cents away if they didn't fit into your wallet. The price of the shirt stems entirely from the material and the shipping. The assembly never factors into it. And that's exactly how BPO dropsuits work. The price of the dropsuit is so neglegible that it's nothing to an immortal. Meanwhile, the person who assembled your t-shirt actually considers two cents per shirt to be real pay. Similar to how 1 ISK could buy you Greece. Note: I took these numbers out of thin air and based them on past exploitation scandals. I have no idea if they are actually that bad, or even worse. Dust 514 isk is valued different than eve online isk. Eve online isk is about 12,000 isk to retire a family in a comfortable middle class life to give some form of measure. Dust 514 isk about 1/10th ratio so 120,000 isk to retire a family. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 21:09:00 - [118] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I still don't like APEX suits being superior to standard suits. It's a bit pay-to-win. Before APEX suits, Dust had a very fair microtransaction model. They are still inferior to both ADV and Proto suits, both of which can be obtained purely via ISK. It's not really pay to win if you can't use it to be competitive. So, how would you like it if you were attacked in PC, with the new "keep what you kill" system, and the enemy team is all using apex suits? You can only lose ISK. Aloha snackbar
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 689	Posted - 2015.05.26 21:19:00 - [119] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dust 514 isk is valued different than eve online isk. Eve online isk is about 12,000 isk to retire a family in a comfortable middle class life to give some form of measure. Dust 514 isk about 1/10th ratio so 120,000 isk to retire a family. Looks like I had a bad source. I still think 1 ISK to retire a family is more fun. It would mean that any mercenary could retire at any time with a hidden shelf full of weapons, each worth more than the collective income of all of the people in his city. But they don't do that, because why sip a drink on your private island when you can get murdered fifteen times a day and start drag racing across explosions? And don't forget hunting down Thale's snipers. That's the best thing in life.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.26 21:20:00 - [120] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dust 514 isk is valued different than eve online isk. Eve online isk is about 12,000 isk to retire a family in a comfortable middle class life to give some form of measure. Dust 514 isk about 1/10th ratio so 120,000 isk to retire a family. Looks like I had a bad source. I still think 1 ISK to retire a family is more fun. It would mean that any mercenary could retire at any time with a hidden shelf full of weapons, each worth more than the collective income of all of the people in his city. But they don't do that, because why sip a drink on your private island when you can get murdered fifteen times a day and start drag racing across explosions? And don't forget hunting down Thale's snipers. That's the best thing in life. 1 isk would likely feed you for a week to month depending what kind of food you buy or where you buy it from. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked

Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 21:35:00 - [121] - Quote So with this change can you remove the proto status that apex suits get when hovered over by the crosshair? I've been tricked many times because of this. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 22:46:00 - [122] - Quote It seems to me that that particular behavior would naturally stop, considering the Apex Core != prototype Core. With suits only defining role, the game will have to use the Cores to determine whether it shows you MLT, BASIC, ADV or PROTO on the hud. Know what cannot be known.
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars 411	Posted - 2015.05.26 23:01:00 - [123] - Quote So we get a few ISK power cores and 1 BPO suit of each basic light/medium/heavy and assault, logi, sentinel, commando, scout suit? And those BPO suits have the same number of module slots as current proto suits? Im just wondering how I can physically tell if I am using a basic medium suit or an assault suit with a power core In the fitting screen.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge No Context 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 23:02:00 - [124] - Quote Looks great, thanks for the hard work and sharing of info. Please pay no mind the those who can't get out of their own way. It made me very frustrated just reading the thread today... Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 23:23:00 - [125] - Quote Alright, my problems with the plan are based on my understanding of how the database is organized and how the dropsuits are rendered. As far as I personally am concerned, performance is of paramount concern, above any and all other concerns. But as far as my understanding goes: 1: Each individual dropsuit stat block currently has it's own unique to the database model, complete with animations and everything. So a quafe C-1 and and a standard assault C-1 are the same thing with different skins, but the system treats each one as a separate entity rather than requiring identical models and different textures. 2: there are over 160 dropsuits in the database as individual entities. 3: the system only needs 3 frames for each race, 1 logi, 1 assault, 1 scout, 1 commando and 1 sentinel because there are no "UNIQUE" dropsuit models. The only changes are the SKINS 4: Each dropsuit model is preloaded into the memory of each PS3 in play, meaning there are a potential 160 COMPLETELY different dropsuits preloaded between 960 potential UNIQUE fittings between 32 characters. This seems like unnecessary database bloat to me. Rather than having three dropsuits for each class I propose 1 racial frame for each of the three sizes, which is a total of 12 1 assault for each race (4) 1 Logi for each race (4) 1 Scout for each race (4) 1 commando for each race (4) 1 sentinel for each race (4) for a total of 32 total discrete dropsuits. Each dropsuit retains the prototype layout. The progression is in the power cores. one power core for each "Tier" which defines a dropsuit as having X PG/CPU for each class or size of dropsuit, depending on what's feasible and causes the least headaches. Render the SKINs for the different tiers as ISK purchases when you achieve the appropriate skill or something. This completely reduces the pre-loading to the minimum possibnle level and is likely to maximize the gains in memory. APEX/BPOs discussed in next post. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 23:29:00 - [126] - Quote Continuing the above, and to butcher certain potential exploits involving APEX which have an assigned ISK value of 57,000 in the SDE: All BPOs are turned into STD CORE BPOs of the appropriate suit class and a BPO of the suit class as well as the texture SKIN. This is also to minimize the memory drain just in case the DEV team needs it in the future to bring us cool things. APEX suits should render 1 appropriate STD core BPO, and BPOs for all equipped modules/weapons as well as an APEX SKIN. This reduces the ISK value of the APEX from 57,000 ISK to 1,000. This chops the potential suicide exploits for FW reimbursement to maybe 400 ISK/suit plus mods. I am of the opinion that if you're going to attack a problem, attack it until it is no longer a problem. Reducing the pre-load RAM allotment of the PS3s by as much as possible now might cause some framerate improvements here, but also can create a buffer for future development. There's no point in adding cores if you intend to keep tiers. None. This post was brought to you by the baffling explanations of Iron Wolf Saber, and dear God I hope he was just explaining poorly. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 23:31:00 - [127] - Quote Finally, the best way to exploit ISK gains in FW is to rapidly lose multiple LAV BPOs with BPO fittings. Please reduce the total ISK value of all of these below 1000 ISK so that JLAVs are not going to be a profitable means of destroying tanks. I love watching tank drivers rage, but this one hits my insanity limit. Hard. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 4	Posted - 2015.05.26 23:46:00 - [128] - Quote It is a great idea that has potential to help. * It moves the huge jump in power in going to a Basic-Advanced-Prototype suit from Slots, PG, and CPU to simply CPU. I know that it got to me when I started running an Advanced Suit every once in a while during open beta that I had to completely rethink my fit. New players might not have all the CPU/PG skills so advancing a suit meant that I had to swap out modules. This is part of the allure of the game. However, it is complicated as hell. I have played EVE and was very, very familiar with the fitting concept and the notion of getting more slots and PG/CPU drove me up the wall because it had me creating completely different combinations. With this change, an Advanced 'Suit' would simply have PG/CPU so the player would be less likely to have to change out their suit's composition besides just getting better modules. If they wanted to, they still could but they wouldn't have to. * It gives a boost to the basic and advanced suits. Not a huge benefit but it helps. * It desperately helps the absolutely terrible scaling of certain roles, especially Logistics. Basic Logistics have: Amarr: 2H 2L 2 E, Sidearm Caldari: 2H 1L 2E Gallente: 1H 2L 3E Minmatar: 2H 2L 3E Caldari is the clear loser here. 2 Equipment and only 1 Low. Amarr and Minmatar are the winners. At Prototype: Amarr: 3H 4L 3 E, Sidearm Caldari: 5H 4L 3E Gallente: 3H 5L 4E Minmatar: 4H 4L 4E Less cut and dry. Caldari have 1 more Low for 1 less Equipment over the Gallente, Minmatar are 4/4/4 showing off their dual nature, though Amarr is kind of hosed for that Sidearm. Still, now any balance concern over slot layout doesn't have to apply to the different tiers because there won't be different tiers. * I disagree with the concerns that the game has to apply to everything in EVE. "Everything should have a cost like it does in EVE." They share the same universe but they are totally different genres. Hearthstone does not have to be exactly the same as World of Warcraft, DUST 514 does not have to be exactly the same as EVE. It isn't like it is Magic the Gathering and Magic the Gathering: Online. * I am worried about the notion of a single Power Core for same roles. Specifically, Caldari Assault and Caldari Logistics. The Caldari Logistics uses most of their PG/CPU not on Equipment but powering that 5/4 Loadout. If the same Power Core is used and they get the same PG/CPU but Assault gets X% reduction on Modules/Weapons and Logistics gets Y% reduction on Equipment, there is basically no way that the Caldari Logistics is going to be able to be created. Hell, that is already the case; that extra slot is usually used for more CPU because of the mind-numbing PG/CPU of Shield Modules (different issue). * I would agree that it is similar to Z's proposal; "your suit is 'prototype' but what is most important are the modules." It doesn't have the "I have to go Logistics if I want to use a Mass Driver" bit. That doesn't mean it is a bad idea. Being similar to something bad but having a significant difference is not necessarily a negative. "[Bad German Guy] was a politician, [Other person] is a politician; conclusive proof!" * As I have stated before, I like this idea even if it does exactly nothing to help the performance issues of the wheezing, hacking machine we call "DUST 514 (PS3)." If it does help, cool. If not, we still got the implementation of a good idea. Just because you still might get from some bacteria on your hand doesn't mean you shouldn't wash your hands after taking a dump; at the very least, your hands won't smell like s***. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:19:00 - [129] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Finally, the best way to exploit ISK gains in FW is to rapidly lose multiple LAV BPOs with BPO fittings. Please reduce the total ISK value of all of these below 1000 ISK so that JLAVs are not going to be a profitable means of destroying tanks. I love watching tank drivers rage, but this one hits my insanity limit. Hard. My favorite way to troll suicide jeeps... Sitting in my tank behind a wall of proxy explosives.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:25:00 - [130] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Finally, the best way to exploit ISK gains in FW is to rapidly lose multiple LAV BPOs with BPO fittings. Please reduce the total ISK value of all of these below 1000 ISK so that JLAVs are not going to be a profitable means of destroying tanks. I love watching tank drivers rage, but this one hits my insanity limit. Hard. My favorite way to troll suicide jeeps... Sitting in my tank behind a wall of proxy explosives. I just gained 20k ISK by blowing up on your proxies. See the problem? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:38:00 - [131] - Quote There's an issue I have with the pricing of proto power cores. They aren't competitively priced. A std power core + a complex fitting mod is cheaper than an advanced power core and offers similar benefits. But an adv power core is cheap enough that the costs are worth the gains in freeing up an additional slot. But a proto power core priced at 81k isk? No. I can take an advance core, add a complex fitting mod and most likely fit a proto primary weapon with complex modules for a total suit cost of 81k isk or less. No that's not a problem currently because there's no working market supply/demand, but this clearly doesn't scale. And I thought all designs were to suit the larger overall design. This doesn't. That probably why when I logged on today, all my apex suits suddenly had less fitting on them. Because I can literally make a suit for 20k isk that stands toe to toe with 200k proto suits. Why is any of this a problem? Because Rattati just changed how the reward systems work in FW and PC. If I can make proto suits for dirt cheap, then where does the isk come from that we are supposed to get when we win matches? If the whole enemy team runs 20k isk suits then the payout is crap for beating them. What happens next? Do we run pubs to make our isk? Do PC corps become massively wealthy again because they can fight at top performance without suffering real losses? Where'd the isk sink go in this?
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:41:00 - [132] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CF-P-iJUIAAkhM7.jpg:large "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:43:00 - [133] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Finally, the best way to exploit ISK gains in FW is to rapidly lose multiple LAV BPOs with BPO fittings. Please reduce the total ISK value of all of these below 1000 ISK so that JLAVs are not going to be a profitable means of destroying tanks. I love watching tank drivers rage, but this one hits my insanity limit. Hard. My favorite way to troll suicide jeeps... Sitting in my tank behind a wall of proxy explosives. I just gained 20k ISK by blowing up on your proxies. See the problem? What problem? All that happened is depending on which proxies I used, you made more isk than it cost me. Sounds like free isk to me and it doesn't hurt my wallet. If it doesn't hurt my wallet then it doesn't matter. As long as I don't die, I can resupply as many times as I want, for free. So that's more free isk if you want it lol EDIT: never mind. I misread your post lol. Yea you're making isk killing yourself.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:53:00 - [134] - Quote He who laughs last, think slowest. He who laugh first, is likely guilty. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:58:00 - [135] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CF-P-iJUIAAkhM7.jpg:large Pack it up boys, Pokey wins the thread. Sometimes I THINK you're r-tarded, most times I KNOW you're r-tarded. I less than three you DUST forums.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 01:03:00 - [136] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CF-P-iJUIAAkhM7.jpg:large Pack it up boys, Pokey wins the thread. I'm pretty sure masochism is actually the answer. And an irrepressible urge to see just how deep the rabbit hole of idiocy actually goes. I have yet to find the bottom. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2015.05.27 01:06:00 - [137] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CF-P-iJUIAAkhM7.jpg:large Pack it up boys, Pokey wins the thread. I'm pretty sure masochism is actually the answer. And an irrepressible urge to see just how deep the rabbit hole of idiocy actually goes. I have yet to find the bottom. Spoiler alert: there is no bottom, just linked, looped points in space-time as to appear never ending. Sometimes I THINK you're r-tarded, most times I KNOW you're r-tarded. I less than three you DUST forums.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.27 01:07:00 - [138] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CF-P-iJUIAAkhM7.jpg:large Pack it up boys, Pokey wins the thread. I'm pretty sure masochism is actually the answer. And an irrepressible urge to see just how deep the rabbit hole of idiocy actually goes. I have yet to find the bottom. Rattati's Meta-Bittervet Status: Confirmed. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 322	Posted - 2015.05.27 01:07:00 - [139] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sole Fenychs wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: In terms of my personal playstyle, power cores are a net gain. In terms of my investment in New Eden, magic bpo dropsuits are a net loss. In terms of the player experience in Dust, power cores are valuable if they improve performance/content. How much, in terms of in-match frames per second, menu loading times & new assets, will implementing power cores bring to Dust? OK, they cost one ISK because they are mass manufactured and the power comes from the modules that are expensive. Now they are no longer BPO's. Does it change anything in the economy? No. Does it no longer violate New Eden's rule of no BPO's. Yes. Then it must be better, right? The real question is do we someday want players in New Eden manufacturing Dust assets from in-game resources? When i say immersion-breaking that's really what i'm getting at - the idea that someday we will be integrated with EVE. In which case the 1 ISK dropsuit doesn't make much sense, except in an arbitrary technical 'letter of the law' sense. Why not design Dust in a way that is consistent with the universe it's embedded in? I want you to do something: Do some research of what 1 ISK is supposed to be worth in New Eden. Hint: You could buy Google with 1 ISK, from what I last read. 1 ISK is not peanuts. That's why the BPO makes sense - 1 ISK is nothing to immortals, meaning that our employers are likely to just throw the suits at us for free, as the complicated parts are in the power core. At the same time, even a BPO (i.e. a suit that is so cheap that you don't even calculate its value) suit might be 0.01 ISK, which would still be an insane amount of money for any non-immortal. Enough to buy your own ******* island or something like that. Always keep in mind the scale. Just look at your real clothes. A shirt is ten bucks, maybe. The material for the shirt is maybe one buck. And then there's two cents or so that go to the person who made your shirt. Ten bucks is nothing for you and for two bucks, you'd buy t-shirts in bulk. The two cents for assembling the shirt are so cheap that you'd consider them a rounding error. You'd throw those two cents away if they didn't fit into your wallet. The price of the shirt stems entirely from the material and the shipping. The assembly never factors into it. And that's exactly how BPO dropsuits work. The price of the dropsuit is so neglegible that it's nothing to an immortal. Meanwhile, the person who assembled your t-shirt actually considers two cents per shirt to be real pay. Similar to how 1 ISK could buy you Greece. Note: I took these numbers out of thin air and based them on past exploitation scandals. I have no idea if they are actually that bad, or even worse. Dust 514 isk is valued different than eve online isk. Eve online isk is about 12,000 isk to retire a family in a comfortable middle class life to give some form of measure. Dust 514 isk about 1/10th ratio so 120,000 isk to retire a family. You've got it backwards. It's about 12-15 Eve ISK for 1 Dust ISK. It's much harder to earn ISK in Dust. I guess all that scaled down technology and people less willing to die thousands of times, from what I've read it's painful. Thor's Emporium
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 01:57:00 - [140] - Quote thor424 wrote: ou've got it backwards. It's about 12-15 Eve ISK for 1 Dust ISK. It's much harder to earn ISK in Dust. I guess all that scaled down technology and people less willing to die thousands of times, from what I've read it's painful. No dust isk is less valued than eve isk. Eve isk 125-1k isk buys a luxury LAV equivalent we spend nearly 10x of that for a combat version. Just because you are immortal doesn't mean you get paid as same as the captains. Cost of running a fleet equivalent for a capsuleer. 1 capsuleer battleship crewed with 2,000 crew averages the effectiveness of 20 fully manned naval battleships. Average crew per naval battleship 12,000 crewmen to include officers, NCOs, and enlisted patrons. All whom require wage, food, administration, morale, medical, and finally insurance for end of life and retirement. Capsuleer ships have no need for Officers, nor NCOs most senior position would be chief of a specified system. What a company saves in NOT hiring an entire battle fleet a portion of it goes to paying the suicidal crew while the contracting corp and capsuleer split the rest of the savings. Dust 514 immortal soldiers are equated to about 50 soldiers give or take. Special Forces. We're cost savings due to the fact we're 100% always spun up but most of our spun up costs are sustained by our own actions and thus we pay for most of it most of the time. Logistics of moving entire battlillions their equipment, training, naval escort, makes use very finetely cheaper than mortal soldiers but not in the order and magnitude of isk saved for our naval equivalents Also because we are hired a band at a time of 16 immortal soldiers the contract is then split up. Then also considering planet side based industry is much cheaper to deploy and employ vs the space born operations plopping a new SI down is cheaper than buying a new cruiser as the stuff self assembled and is mostly prefabbed. Then clean up costs. Oh the cleanup costs. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 02:02:00 - [141] - Quote Suits before cores and skins Small MLT Small NEO STD Small STD Small NEO ADV Small ADV Small NEO PRO Small PRO +Variants of all colors and sizes Scout NEO MLT (model physics sounds actor and more) Scout MLT Scout NEO STD Scout STD Scout NEO ADV Scout ADV Scout NEO PRO Scout PRO +Variants, Colored, Officers After Skins and Cores Small Suit (model physics sounds actor and more) Scout Suit Officer Scout Suits MLT Small Core (no need for model physics sounds ect ect) STD Small Core NEO ADV Small Core ADV Small Core NEO PRO Small Core PRO Small Core Variant Skins (baked into the suits above) CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Haerr The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2	Posted - 2015.05.27 08:40:00 - [142] - Quote ^ Can you do the same thing for vehicles and weapons?

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.27 09:59:00 - [143] - Quote Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 10:27:00 - [144] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! I have been thinking and the more I think about it the more I am going have to say that I think this fear is unfounded; the apex of player ability; is to have the knowledge; and skill in this game to be able to run and run effectively at isk costs and fitting; trading off proper modules for gains and advantages and this scenario would actually justify the use of CPU and PG modules as they're no longer not paying their slot consumption weight barely but being able to enjoy it further out for higher grade modules elsewhere. A second or third fitting module would simply make it a std slot layout with full adv-proto mix. Even if a highly skilled veteran where to make an unusual glass house fit to get a performance not normally seen at that 'tier' a lesser skilled player can attempt to mimic the setup using weaker gear but having access to the same slots can empower the player to achieve semi-relatable performance instead of a gulf of impossibility. There are ways to balance this fear out though; you can simply adjust the fitting modules; make officers/experimental harder to fit so that only prototype suits would fancy fitting them; adding additional module fitting skills to modules that do not currently enjoy them and much more. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5	Posted - 2015.05.27 10:46:00 - [145] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! I have been thinking and the more I think about it the more I am going have to say that I think this fear is unfounded; the apex of player ability; is to have the knowledge; and skill in this game to be able to run and run effectively at isk costs and fitting; trading off proper modules for gains and advantages and this scenario would actually justify the use of CPU and PG modules as they're no longer not paying their slot consumption weight barely but being able to enjoy it further out for higher grade modules elsewhere. A second or third fitting module would simply make it a std slot layout with full adv-proto mix. Even if a highly skilled veteran where to make an unusual glass house fit to get a performance not normally seen at that 'tier' a lesser skilled player can attempt to mimic the setup using weaker gear but having access to the same slots can empower the player to achieve semi-relatable performance instead of a gulf of impossibility. There are ways to balance this fear out though; you can simply adjust the fitting modules; make officers/experimental harder to fit so that only prototype suits would fancy fitting them; adding additional module fitting skills to modules that do not currently enjoy them and much more. I'd have to agree with IWS sentiment here as well. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 10:48:00 - [146] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! transfer the PG/CPU function entirely to the cores and phase out the STD and ADV suits. Make three tiers of core per suit class, (9 total ISK cores) for heavy, medium and light. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 10:50:00 - [147] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! I have been thinking and the more I think about it the more I am going have to say that I think this fear is unfounded; the apex of player ability; is to have the knowledge; and skill in this game to be able to run and run effectively at isk costs and fitting; trading off proper modules for gains and advantages and this scenario would actually justify the use of CPU and PG modules as they're no longer not paying their slot consumption weight barely but being able to enjoy it further out for higher grade modules elsewhere. A second or third fitting module would simply make it a std slot layout with full adv-proto mix. Even if a highly skilled veteran where to make an unusual glass house fit to get a performance not normally seen at that 'tier' a lesser skilled player can attempt to mimic the setup using weaker gear but having access to the same slots can empower the player to achieve semi-relatable performance instead of a gulf of impossibility. There are ways to balance this fear out though; you can simply adjust the fitting modules; make officers/experimental harder to fit so that only prototype suits would fancy fitting them; adding additional module fitting skills to modules that do not currently enjoy them and much more. I'd have to agree with IWS sentiment here as well. As strange as it is to say this... I acually understood what he was going for \o/ And I agree. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.27 10:51:00 - [148] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! I have been thinking and the more I think about it the more I am going have to say that I think this fear is unfounded; the apex of player ability; is to have the knowledge; and skill in this game to be able to run and run effectively at isk costs and fitting; trading off proper modules for gains and advantages and this scenario would actually justify the use of CPU and PG modules as they're no longer not paying their slot consumption weight barely but being able to enjoy it further out for higher grade modules elsewhere. A second or third fitting module would simply make it a std slot layout with full adv-proto mix. Even if a highly skilled veteran where to make an unusual glass house fit to get a performance not normally seen at that 'tier' a lesser skilled player can attempt to mimic the setup using weaker gear but having access to the same slots can empower the player to achieve semi-relatable performance instead of a gulf of impossibility. There are ways to balance this fear out though; you can simply adjust the fitting modules; make officers/experimental harder to fit so that only prototype suits would fancy fitting them; adding additional module fitting skills to modules that do not currently enjoy them and much more. I'd have to agree with IWS sentiment here as well. It's not enough to have sentiment, I did the numbers. To prevent stacking, I need to crush the bonus given by capacity upgrades. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.27 10:52:00 - [149] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! transfer the PG/CPU function entirely to the cores and phase out the STD and ADV suits. Make three tiers of core per suit class, (9 total ISK cores) for heavy, medium and light. a STD core plus 4 pg upgrades and 4 cpu upgrades is much higher than a proto core, if I use std and pro dropsuit values and 4 and 8 slots comparatively "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:03:00 - [150] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: a STD core plus 4 pg upgrades and 4 cpu upgrades is much higher than a proto core, if I use std and pro dropsuit values and 4 and 8 slots comparatively ...but what does it matter if you have all that PG/CPU, if you have no slots left... I really am asking, I feel like I am missing something here? Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:12:00 - [151] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! transfer the PG/CPU function entirely to the cores and phase out the STD and ADV suits. Make three tiers of core per suit class, (9 total ISK cores) for heavy, medium and light. a STD core plus 4 pg upgrades and 4 cpu upgrades is much higher than a proto core, if I use std and pro dropsuit values and 4 and 8 slots comparatively if a suit with std core had 5 highs and 5 lows and 4 and 4 are fitted with the cpu and pg upgrades you just effectively made a 1H 1L suit that can fit anything which isnt that much better than a pro core fitted suit that can fit multiple proto and experimentals. Slot weight CCP Rattati please factor that in that any slot consumed by the fitting module is effectively lost. Two MLT modules in many cases are better than one proto module sadly in a large variety of cases this is why in general fitting modules are not popular on the simple grounds that they eat an entire slot of that is better off spent putting a far weaker module into it rather than upgrading another; this perception of fitting modules being a problem is only present in a few cases where the functionality of a higher module (proto only weapon variant) or the opportunity provided by a proto (vehicle hardeners timers having overlap) had been the only issues so far concerning having too many of a proto module. Most infantry modules cannot suffer this. Also if I remember the consideration in making CPU and PG modules more % based a stacking penalty can be easily applied in thoery if its that much of a concern. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:16:00 - [152] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! transfer the PG/CPU function entirely to the cores and phase out the STD and ADV suits. Make three tiers of core per suit class, (9 total ISK cores) for heavy, medium and light. a STD core plus 4 pg upgrades and 4 cpu upgrades is much higher than a proto core, if I use std and pro dropsuit values and 4 and 8 slots comparatively Maybe so, but then you have nothing fitted in your 4 high and 4 low slots. Sure you can fit high end weapons and equipment with that kind of setup but that's kinda the point of fitting modules. As you upgrade the core you eliminate some of those fitting upgrades for actual HP mods, profile dampeners, precision enhances, damage mods, etc. You are making a significant sacrifice by only using a fitting bonus mod in those slots. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:20:00 - [153] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! transfer the PG/CPU function entirely to the cores and phase out the STD and ADV suits. Make three tiers of core per suit class, (9 total ISK cores) for heavy, medium and light. a STD core plus 4 pg upgrades and 4 cpu upgrades is much higher than a proto core, if I use std and pro dropsuit values and 4 and 8 slots comparatively he finally gets it lol. this is why you cant justify the 81k isk price of a proto powercore lol it also breaks your new reward system for PC as you can run way cheaper suits that still perform competitively. now ill say im against you method of fixing the situation, because youre limiting our ability to fit our dropsuits creatively. youre making our sandbox smaller. be more creative in your solutions, because this problem was what I was worried about before. Because we have adv and proto versions we feel the need to tie player progression and power to "better" suits. There shouldnt be any "better suit" or "better powercore." Go make a thread in eve and ask what the "best" ship is... theyll tell you that there is no "best" ship. Everything has a design, purpose, or role that is filled. The powercore attempts to solve a hardware issue without changing the overall meta of the game and without too much effort. but now youre seeing thats not going to happen. You need to be looking elsewhere for your player progression. You could have simply made one suit like youre doing, but instead of using a powercore simply make one standard PG/CPU design for each suit, - use the two fitting skills to increase PG/CPU to allow the suit fit adv modules - suit role bonuses to decrease fitting cost of role base gear/weapons - add fitting optimization skills for modules and equipment, so that when all fitting skills (combined with the above) are at level 5, you can fit proto gear/weapons on the suits then you wouldnt need to tinker with fitting mods overpowering "proto cores" or needing to adjust the costs of modules. This is true tiercide. theres no isk exploits, and player progression is clear: Train your skills if you want to become more powerful. It eliminates the "isk advantage" between new players and older players while the "SP advantage" is negated through the use of AUR and LP gear. Does this require you to do work? yes. Is it a better overall solution in terms of game design? yes. Are you going to do it? probably not lol
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:20:00 - [154] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! transfer the PG/CPU function entirely to the cores and phase out the STD and ADV suits. Make three tiers of core per suit class, (9 total ISK cores) for heavy, medium and light. a STD core plus 4 pg upgrades and 4 cpu upgrades is much higher than a proto core, if I use std and pro dropsuit values and 4 and 8 slots comparatively Maybe so, but then you have nothing fitted in your 4 high and 4 low slots. Sure you can fit high end weapons and equipment with that kind of setup but that's kinda the point of fitting modules. As you upgrade the core you eliminate some of those fitting upgrades for actual HP mods, profile dampeners, precision enhances, damage mods, etc. You are making a significant sacrifice by only using a fitting bonus mod in those slots. And, honestly... Couldn't one just fit high end weapons/nades on a std core suit anyway, without even needing fitting mods, by simply leaving those high and low slots empty anyway? O.o Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:22:00 - [155] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: a STD core plus 4 pg upgrades and 4 cpu upgrades is much higher than a proto core, if I use std and pro dropsuit values and 4 and 8 slots comparatively ...but what does it matter if you have all that PG/CPU, if you have no slots left... I really am asking, I feel like I am missing something here? why in God's name would I fit that when i can generally rock a much better overall fit by maxing my cores? I can already fit proto guns to suits, or fit rockin' tank with just fitting skills A fitting mod may be benefricial, but each additional mod one takes should be considered a step closer to gimping your fit. 4 mods each sounds strong on paper, but the costs outweigh the benefit. If I, for instance, on my minmatar sentinel, for whatever reason put two PG/CPU mods in the highs and lows, I'll have one mod to choose for damage mods, or shields, and no lows for speed, plates or recovery. What do I get in return? Gank in the form of beefier weapons. This is honestly a bad choice for me, because I completely sacrifice all survivability and a significant potential chunk of DPS. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:23:00 - [156] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! transfer the PG/CPU function entirely to the cores and phase out the STD and ADV suits. Make three tiers of core per suit class, (9 total ISK cores) for heavy, medium and light. a STD core plus 4 pg upgrades and 4 cpu upgrades is much higher than a proto core, if I use std and pro dropsuit values and 4 and 8 slots comparatively Maybe so, but then you have nothing fitted in your 4 high and 4 low slots. Sure you can fit high end weapons and equipment with that kind of setup but that's kinda the point of fitting modules. As you upgrade the core you eliminate some of those fitting upgrades for actual HP mods, profile dampeners, precision enhances, damage mods, etc. You are making a significant sacrifice by only using a fitting bonus mod in those slots. that depends. if youre specializing, then no youre not sacrificing anything. if im sniping then ill only need to fit the a proto sniper rifle and then some damage mods. if im a tanker, i dont need anything and i might bring to proto proxy explosives and grenades you cant be jack of all trades but you can be competitive at something at least
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:25:00 - [157] - Quote most of my pilot suits are either empty or mobility based scouts point is that such gimmick suits are severly weak in something if they fit that many cpu or PG or they're going to be out of one or the other with the steeper cost in each other's resources. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:29:00 - [158] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: most of my pilot suits are either empty or mobility based scouts point is that such gimmick suits are severly weak in something if they fit that many cpu or PG or they're going to be out of one or the other with the steeper cost in each other's resources. i use the proxies to defend against suicide jeeps
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:30:00 - [159] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: most of my pilot suits are either empty or mobility based scouts point is that such gimmick suits are severly weak in something if they fit that many cpu or PG or they're going to be out of one or the other with the steeper cost in each other's resources. i use the proxies to defend against suicide jeeps I should fit a hack suit around you. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:31:00 - [160] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: most of my pilot suits are either empty or mobility based scouts point is that such gimmick suits are severly weak in something if they fit that many cpu or PG or they're going to be out of one or the other with the steeper cost in each other's resources. i use the proxies to defend against suicide jeeps And you can put proto proxies on your standard suit without using all your slots for fitting mods... without using any of your slots for fitting mods, even, if all you really want is the ability to drop proxies... in that case the the PG/CPU wouldn't be your first limiting factor, it'd be your suit's bandwidth, surely? Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:32:00 - [161] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: most of my pilot suits are either empty or mobility based scouts point is that such gimmick suits are severly weak in something if they fit that many cpu or PG or they're going to be out of one or the other with the steeper cost in each other's resources. I mean sniper fit? good luck shoving all those damage slot into the high slots with cpu mods sharing the same slot rack. PG issues can be absolved by not even fitting the lows at all. cpu mods are low slots. you must not use them lol 1 complex cpu mod is enough to fit a a proto sniper rifle and if you use the LP variant then you can also fit damage mods pretty easily as well. and you only need to fit two damage mods as stacking penalties dont make extras beyond that worth it
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:33:00 - [162] - Quote Deathwind, how does utilizing all of your fitting slots for PG/CPU mods benefit you? Sure, you can fit a proto gun. Just like I can with maxed cores and Standard mods in every other slot. this multiple PG/CPU thing is net benefit of zero WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:35:00 - [163] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: most of my pilot suits are either empty or mobility based scouts point is that such gimmick suits are severly weak in something if they fit that many cpu or PG or they're going to be out of one or the other with the steeper cost in each other's resources. I mean sniper fit? good luck shoving all those damage slot into the high slots with cpu mods sharing the same slot rack. PG issues can be absolved by not even fitting the lows at all. cpu mods are low slots. you must not use them lol 1 complex cpu mod is enough to fit a a proto sniper rifle and if you use the LP variant then you can also fit damage mods pretty easily as well. and you only need to fit two damage mods as stacking penalties dont make extras beyond that worth it No because the slot consumption is too high; I get more suit performance from fitting a weaker module than trying to get one module to proto. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:40:00 - [164] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: most of my pilot suits are either empty or mobility based scouts point is that such gimmick suits are severly weak in something if they fit that many cpu or PG or they're going to be out of one or the other with the steeper cost in each other's resources. I mean sniper fit? good luck shoving all those damage slot into the high slots with cpu mods sharing the same slot rack. PG issues can be absolved by not even fitting the lows at all. cpu mods are low slots. you must not use them lol 1 complex cpu mod is enough to fit a a proto sniper rifle and if you use the LP variant then you can also fit damage mods pretty easily as well. and you only need to fit two damage mods as stacking penalties dont make extras beyond that worth it The issue wasn't with people fitting ONE cpu mod, though. Using for example one CPU mod to make a specific fitting that you couldn't otherwise is what they are intended to be used for. The premise we were questioning was needing to limit the number of fitting mods that could be used, because somehow it would make sense to use MANY (as in, all or even most slots) on a std cored suit and this would outperform a proto cored suit? No relation to your sniper fit at all. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 893	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:47:00 - [165] - Quote I find it hard to believe that fitting a standard power core and a load of CPU and PG mods would make an overpowered suit. As has been pointed out, you are using up the mod slots with PG/CPU upgrades. I thought this was an important part of tiercide. So for example, my proto Amarr assault can fit full proto (Carthum version) except for a high slot and equipment, that are advanced. So even if, theoretically, I could fit an advanced or standard power core instead, and use a PG mod and a CPU mod, and fit the rest of the suit out in full proto, I will only have upgraded my equipment and one module. At the cost of two modules. I'd rather keep my mods and keep my downgraded equipment and high slot.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5	Posted - 2015.05.27 12:10:00 - [166] - Quote CCP Rattati, I used an APEX suit to run a simulation. (I have max fitting skills.) I have an amarr apex assault suit with 3 complex PG and 3 complex CPU mods. It ends up with 538 CPU ( 436 CPU with mod cost), 98 PG (71 PG with mod cost) with 0 H and 2 L slot 1 LW, 1 Sidearm, 1 Grenade, and 1 Equipment (6 total slots). versus An unfit proto amarr assault at 484 CPU and 97 PG with 3 H and 5 Low slots 1 LW, 1 Sidearm, 1 Grenade, and 1 equipment (12 total slots). You are right in that you can make a lower end suit have more fitting with fitting upgrades but you end up with a suit with less overall slots and in many cases less actual CPU and PG. I'd also say the slots themselves are the most valuable asset on the suit, which you end up with less of. Also creating this 0 H, 2 L slot suit was done at a cost of 31,590 ISK for all of the fitting modules. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.27 12:30:00 - [167] - Quote My main worry was that it could be exploited, not necessarily in terms of "same as proto", but maybe comparably good as ADV for the price of STD. Keep it going, I can always increase the ISK cost of them to fight stacking. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 12:34:00 - [168] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My main worry was that it could be exploited, not necessarily in terms of "same as proto", but maybe comparably good as ADV for the price of STD. Keep it going, I can always increase the ISK cost of them to fight stacking. There is a much higher possibility that players can run proto effective fits at adv core or std core through fitting skills taking effect. Or players achieving all they want in a fit even at std than using fitting modules at odd angle of exploit. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 12:40:00 - [169] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My main worry was that it could be exploited, not necessarily in terms of "same as proto", but maybe comparably good as ADV for the price of STD. Keep it going, I can always increase the ISK cost of them to fight stacking. Eh, honestly IMHO you're better off ith the full ADV, sure you can ghetto a fit, but odds are you won't pull it off unless you're just about maxed out on the skills WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 12:50:00 - [170] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My main worry was that it could be exploited, not necessarily in terms of "same as proto", but maybe comparably good as ADV for the price of STD. Keep it going, I can always increase the ISK cost of them to fight stacking. you still arnt understanding that to get a std suit to the pg and cpu of an adv or proto suit, you have to lock slots away So in effect you will NEVER achieve the same as an adv or proto suit this way Prime League champion SGL Sidearm champion Fanfest '14 All star champion

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 12:57:00 - [171] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! transfer the PG/CPU function entirely to the cores and phase out the STD and ADV suits. Make three tiers of core per suit class, (9 total ISK cores) for heavy, medium and light. a STD core plus 4 pg upgrades and 4 cpu upgrades is much higher than a proto core, if I use std and pro dropsuit values and 4 and 8 slots comparatively Thinking about it this problem must already have been solved by the Eve Online developers. They way their fitting system is set up - tiercide included - they must have come up to a solution to the same issue. I know this isn't Eve and I don't intend to copy it - I stopped playing it myself for a reason - but if they have a solution we might be able to save ourselves some trial-and-error.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 927	Posted - 2015.05.27 12:58:00 - [172] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! I have been thinking and the more I think about it the more I am going have to say that I think this fear is unfounded; the apex of player ability; is to have the knowledge; and skill in this game to be able to run and run effectively at isk costs and fitting; trading off proper modules for gains and advantages and this scenario would actually justify the use of CPU and PG modules as they're no longer not paying their slot consumption weight barely but being able to enjoy it further out for higher grade modules elsewhere. A second or third fitting module would simply make it a std slot layout with full adv-proto mix. Even if a highly skilled veteran where to make an unusual glass house fit to get a performance not normally seen at that 'tier' a lesser skilled player can attempt to mimic the setup using weaker gear but having access to the same slots can empower the player to achieve semi-relatable performance instead of a gulf of impossibility. There are ways to balance this fear out though; you can simply adjust the fitting modules; make officers/experimental harder to fit so that only prototype suits would fancy fitting them; adding additional module fitting skills to modules that do not currently enjoy them and much more. I'd have to agree with IWS sentiment here as well. It's not enough to have sentiment, I did the numbers. To prevent stacking, I need to crush the bonus given by capacity upgrades. Then go for it. Tiericide (and all the benefits it will bring) is more important in my eyes than keeping PG and CPU upgrades as they are today. I would say adjust the ISK price (personal opinion), since in the new world of power cores they carry all the cost, right? Below is just an example of the top of my head: 1 STD power core + 2 Complex PG + 2 Complex CPU = 1 PRO core. If the cost of these 5 components is equal to a PRO core its pointless to fit since you will be more efficient equipping a PRO core instead (free up 4 slots).
Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 370	Posted - 2015.05.27 13:08:00 - [173] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! CCP Rattati wrote: My main worry was that it could be exploited, not necessarily in terms of "same as proto", but maybe comparably good as ADV for the price of STD. Keep it going, I can always increase the ISK cost of them to fight stacking. If the problem is on STD reaching ADV level, what about limiting the amount of allowable CPU/PG upgades per tier? STD = 1 CPU and PG ADV = 2 CPU and PG PRO = 3 CPU and PG Standard can't get above it's level, and ADV and PRO can still burn slots for more fitting power.
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 289	Posted - 2015.05.27 14:00:00 - [174] - Quote does this power core malarkey make possible more roles per frame size now, 1 extra medium and heavy and 2 light? Dust 514 hurts Go Fabulous or go home
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 692	Posted - 2015.05.27 14:18:00 - [175] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: does this power core malarkey make possible more roles per frame size now, 1 extra medium, heavy and 2 light? What would you want those roles to be? Jihad master, Pilot, Brick and Grenadier?
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 289	Posted - 2015.05.27 14:24:00 - [176] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: does this power core malarkey make possible more roles per frame size now, 1 extra medium, heavy and 2 light? What would you want those roles to be? Jihad master, Pilot, Brick and Grenadier? anything, im sure ccp could come up with interesting concepts so we have 3 or more roles per frame size Dust 514 hurts Go Fabulous or go home
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.27 15:16:00 - [177] - Quote If a dude wants to sacrifice slots to fit a prototype weapon on a standard core suit, let him. Glass cannon is emergent gameplay too! (Seriously. Dude will be dead before he can make use of that expensive gun.) (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 824	Posted - 2015.05.27 16:22:00 - [178] - Quote Devadander wrote: Skill HAV and you will understand. You guys are thinking this will make your suits op. So not the case. Maybe ratty will be nicer to suits than vehicles... Yup, all tiers have same awesome slot count. To keep you from packing a std hav with pro mods, the pg/CPU is not forgiving. You will fill those extra slots with pg CPU mods and be one module cooler for double the idk. Your std will be as std as ever, your adv sure won't feel adv, and pro will still hand you your waste processing unit. Veterans with max skills will fit well above average suits of the tier you are trying to grind as a NP. Thus, the stdstomp is born. I run adv 90% of the time and will just go pro 100%. All the time. My best gear. In every mode. I can afford it. A lot of them cannot. Veterans are all for this.... I wonder why? Because it makes the game better? Because it enhances npe? More memory for other assets? Lolno. Because they see the opportunity to fit an officer weapon on a std suit, with above adv strength. Killing a pro with a std is currently a mark of skill. All I'm sayin dude. You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. As I understand it (and I could be wrong here, im not a tanker at all), the vehicle tree has few, if any, fitting skills. That's the difference here. High-skilled players, or new bros who focus on core skills, will be bale to get a lot of bang for their buck when fitting STD and ADV fits. Assault players will especially be able to punch well above their weight because of that role's singular focus on weapon fitting reductions. If vehicle skill trees mirrored the infantry trees like for like it would make such a difference I think. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 16:45:00 - [179] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alright, my problems with the plan are based on my understanding of how the database is organized and how the dropsuits are rendered. As far as I personally am concerned, performance is of paramount concern, above any and all other concerns. But as far as my understanding goes: 1: Each individual dropsuit stat block currently has it's own unique to the database model, complete with animations and everything. So a quafe C-1 and and a standard assault C-1 are the same thing with different skins, but the system treats each one as a separate entity rather than requiring identical models and different textures. 2: there are over 160 dropsuits in the database as individual entities. 3: the system only needs 3 frames for each race, 1 logi, 1 assault, 1 scout, 1 commando and 1 sentinel because there are no "UNIQUE" dropsuit models. The only changes are the SKINS 4: Each dropsuit model is preloaded into the memory of each PS3 in play, meaning there are a potential 160 COMPLETELY different dropsuits preloaded between 960 potential UNIQUE fittings between 32 characters. This seems like unnecessary database bloat to me. Rather than having three dropsuits for each class I propose 1 racial frame for each of the three sizes, which is a total of 12 1 assault for each race (4) 1 Logi for each race (4) 1 Scout for each race (4) 1 commando for each race (4) 1 sentinel for each race (4) for a total of 32 discrete dropsuits. Each dropsuit retains the prototype layout. The progression is in the power cores. one power core for each "Tier" which defines a dropsuit as having X PG/CPU for each class or size of dropsuit, depending on what's feasible and causes the least headaches. Render the SKINs for the different tiers as ISK purchases when you achieve the appropriate skill or something. This completely reduces the pre-loading to the minimum possibnle level and is likely to maximize the gains in memory. APEX/BPOs discussed in next post. applying this idea to weapons (creating a second SKIN slot in each dropsuit for the weapon) will allow similar reduction in weapon models. Ignore me, I got confused when IWS tried to explain how the process would work. I'll try not to translate IWS-ese without an adult present in the future. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Skhazi Robotika Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.05.27 17:33:00 - [180] - Quote So.. The skins. The proto black skin is only usable with a proto core or is it like I said in the other thread, usable in any type of core once you have the proto skill unlocked Hmmm the green M&N..

Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 18:58:00 - [181] - Quote As long my PG+CPU skills are still applied to this concept im happy. Plus it would make basic BPO suits and their attached skins more interesting. Cause ya know at the moment there is no need for a basic BPO suit if you have a apex suit instead. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:40:00 - [182] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: I think it's been said: Reasonable people agree with this. As a secondary topic on the user experience side of this: I feel like 'powercores' are not an intuitive entity to interact with. Ask 10 people that don't know the forums what a powercore is - I don't think they'll guess right. Are you opposed to baking the powercores into the suits as a prefit item? That way this change becomes transparent to the players. Buy an advanced Amarr Assault suit, receive a medium suit called "Amarr Assault A/1" that has an advanced medium powercore prefit. This prefit powerfore can be hidden or visible. I think I prefer hidden for the user experience advantage - but if anyone finds a problem with that I wouldn't mind. I'm assuming here that all cool BPOs will become skin modules in the future, so you'll have a standard suit BPO to save ISK and a cool skin to put on your pro and advanced suits. That means hidden powercores cause no losses in vet-experience, but new players have one less concept to learn during the first two weeks. Also, will you do the same to vehicles? I assume they have the same memory-consumption problem. Next up, tier- and skin-modules for weapons? First I like to say that the best way to address the issue of players not knowing what is a CORE module is by implementing an effective tutorial system into the UI so newbros can understand them and veterans won't be jarred by it. Secondly, I do not think the concept of the CORE module would ever work properly with vehicles mainly because vehicles are an entirely different beast altogether especially when you compare LAVs to HAVs to Dropships and then you have to account for AV players as well. Vehicles are not like suits. Suits don't go around bumping into other suits with REs strapped to their chests, they don't fly around (except as a result of an RE detonation), and they don't carry other suits on their shoulders. People often use ISK cost as some sort of basis for balancing vehicles to AV but that is generally a mistake because vehicle-vs-AV balance was never meant to work like that. If a full squad of MLT AV players gang up on a PRO HAV and succeed with destroying it, then that is balanced so long as A) the PRO HAV is operated by a stupid driver and B) the MLT AV squad knows what they are doing because they are veterans. But let's turn that around. Let's say that the MLT AV squad is full of incompetent blueberries while the PRO HAV is driven by a skilled veteran who knows what he is doing. the MLT squad gets slaughtered by the PRO player rides into the sunset laughing with 6 kills added to his KDR. Balanced. Let's change it up some more. Let's say the AV squad is running with PRO gear this time and encounter a MLT HAV. If the PRO AV squad knows what they are doing while the MLT HAV driver is stupid, the squad gets a nice squishy kill. Balanced. Turn the tables now. Let's say it's the MLT HAV driver who is the veteran and the PRO AV squad is full of idiots. He somehow gets out alive driving into the sunset once again with 2-3 kills added to his KDR while the PRO AV squad is left behind rekt having a bad day because of him. Balanced. As you can see, player skill has to play a role in this as well. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
SponkSponkSponk WarRavens 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 21:00:00 - [183] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My main worry was that it could be exploited, not necessarily in terms of "same as proto", but maybe comparably good as ADV for the price of STD. ADV suit is 8k, STD suit is 2k, is this really an issue? If everyone runs X fitting mods in the new era, a PRO power core will free up those slots. ....so that's exactly the same situation as it is now: PRO suits have more effective slots than other tiers. Dust/Eve transfers
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 23:08:00 - [184] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: I think it's been said: Reasonable people agree with this. As a secondary topic on the user experience side of this: I feel like 'powercores' are not an intuitive entity to interact with. Ask 10 people that don't know the forums what a powercore is - I don't think they'll guess right. Are you opposed to baking the powercores into the suits as a prefit item? That way this change becomes transparent to the players. Buy an advanced Amarr Assault suit, receive a medium suit called "Amarr Assault A/1" that has an advanced medium powercore prefit. This prefit powerfore can be hidden or visible. I think I prefer hidden for the user experience advantage - but if anyone finds a problem with that I wouldn't mind. I'm assuming here that all cool BPOs will become skin modules in the future, so you'll have a standard suit BPO to save ISK and a cool skin to put on your pro and advanced suits. That means hidden powercores cause no losses in vet-experience, but new players have one less concept to learn during the first two weeks. Also, will you do the same to vehicles? I assume they have the same memory-consumption problem. Next up, tier- and skin-modules for weapons? First I like to say that the best way to address the issue of players not knowing what is a CORE module is by implementing an effective tutorial system into the UI so newbros can understand them and veterans won't be jarred by it. Secondly, I do not think the concept of the CORE module would ever work properly with vehicles mainly because vehicles are an entirely different beast altogether especially when you compare LAVs to HAVs to Dropships and then you have to account for AV players as well. Vehicles are not like suits. Suits don't go around bumping into other suits with REs strapped to their chests, they don't fly around (except as a result of an RE detonation), and they don't carry other suits on their shoulders. People often use ISK cost as some sort of basis for balancing vehicles to AV but that is generally a mistake because vehicle-vs-AV balance was never meant to work like that. If a full squad of MLT AV players gang up on a PRO HAV and succeed with destroying it, then that is balanced so long as A) the PRO HAV is operated by a stupid driver and B) the MLT AV squad knows what they are doing because they are veterans. But let's turn that around. Let's say that the MLT AV squad is full of incompetent blueberries while the PRO HAV is driven by a skilled veteran who knows what he is doing. the MLT squad gets slaughtered by the PRO player rides into the sunset laughing with 6 kills added to his KDR. Balanced. Let's change it up some more. Let's say the AV squad is running with PRO gear this time and encounter a MLT HAV. If the PRO AV squad knows what they are doing while the MLT HAV driver is stupid, the squad gets a nice squishy kill. Balanced. Turn the tables now. Let's say it's the MLT HAV driver who is the veteran and the PRO AV squad is full of idiots. He somehow gets out alive driving into the sunset once again with 2-3 kills added to his KDR while the PRO AV squad is left behind rekt having a bad day because of him. Balanced. As you can see, player skill has to play a role in this as well. EDIT: One more change... Let's say both the AV squad and the HAV driver are matched in tier. PRO-vs-PRO. It's now down to who make a fatal mistake first. Kind of off topic but i can't say I agree with anything you wrote. Balance is not a squad of AV vs one tanker. Militia AV should be equivalent to militia guns. Harder to kill byt feasible on a one vs one scenerio. The instant a tank is worth two infantry is the instant balance gets tossed out the window. Overlord of Broman
Ace Ravager Horizons' Edge No Context 60	Posted - 2015.05.28 03:14:00 - [185] - Quote Just do me a favor and lower the price of the final power core its scares me Come here for someOfficer Stuff
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.28 04:09:00 - [186] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? This is CCP Z's fanfest proposal for 'you are your dropsuit' with the skill progression removed. Sort of, if you mean by tiericide of the suits. But... Not really, because the tier still exists in the CORE module when you look at the CPU/PG progression. Not only that, but the plan that Rattati is looking into does NOT force you to skill into a whole role you don't need to a weapon you want. Z's plan does exactly that... force you. You don't see that with this one now. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.28 09:45:00 - [187] - Quote One player should always equal another player regardless of what weapon they're using or what suit they're in or what platform they're loaded into. From there you add the variations of skill of the players, gear quality, and gear variety. When you're done the value of one player should still be the value of any other player. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.28 11:59:00 - [188] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Kind of off topic but i can't say I agree with anything you wrote. Balance is not a squad of AV vs one tanker. Militia AV should be equivalent to militia guns. Harder to kill byt feasible on a one vs one scenerio. The instant a tank is worth two infantry is the instant balance gets tossed out the window. pay attention to what he said. Maken compared extremes On opposite end of the spectrum. He never said at any point that an HAV should inherently require a squad to kill. He used a variable example of a squad versus a tank comparing idiots in avaction at extremes of gear disparity. He did not address a competent AV versus a competent tanker in a 1v1 situation with comparable gear at all. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 15:21:00 - [189] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Kind of off topic but i can't say I agree with anything you wrote. Balance is not a squad of AV vs one tanker. Militia AV should be equivalent to militia guns. Harder to kill byt feasible on a one vs one scenerio. The instant a tank is worth two infantry is the instant balance gets tossed out the window. pay attention to what he said. Maken compared extremes On opposite end of the spectrum. He never said at any point that an HAV should inherently require a squad to kill. He used a variable example of a squad versus a tank comparing idiots in avaction at extremes of gear disparity. He did not address a competent AV versus a competent tanker in a 1v1 situation with comparable gear at all. It was pretty clear from his post he was implying multiple AV users to 1 vehicle. This can easily be demonstrated by his last update straight up saying a full AV squad vs a single HAV driver comes down to fatal mistake when equally skilled. Maken Tosch wrote: EDIT: One more change... Let's say both the AV squad and the HAV driver are matched in tier. PRO-vs-PRO. It's now down to who make a fatal mistake first. Overlord of Broman
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.28 18:08:00 - [190] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Kind of off topic but i can't say I agree with anything you wrote. Balance is not a squad of AV vs one tanker. Militia AV should be equivalent to militia guns. Harder to kill byt feasible on a one vs one scenerio. The instant a tank is worth two infantry is the instant balance gets tossed out the window. pay attention to what he said. Maken compared extremes On opposite end of the spectrum. He never said at any point that an HAV should inherently require a squad to kill. He used a variable example of a squad versus a tank comparing idiots in avaction at extremes of gear disparity. He did not address a competent AV versus a competent tanker in a 1v1 situation with comparable gear at all. It was pretty clear from his post he was implying multiple AV users to 1 vehicle. This can easily be demonstrated by his last update straight up saying a full AV squad vs a single HAV driver comes down to fatal mistake when equally skilled. Maken Tosch wrote: EDIT: One more change... Let's say both the AV squad and the HAV driver are matched in tier. PRO-vs-PRO. It's now down to who make a fatal mistake first. You are right about the last part, but just so you know the point of my post (which I made very clear) is that player skill needs to be a major factor in this. Sure, the number of AVers may play a part in this as well, but the number has minimal impact if there is a major disparity in player skill between the driver and the AVer. I have died several times to a couple of semi-decent AVers while I was in a HAV. But then again, that HAV wasn't mine (I hacked it from an enemy) and I was a **** driver because I don't use tanks (no SP invested) and LAVs are all I skilled into and even then I don't use those anymore. So no surprise when I died to AVers. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6	Posted - 2015.05.28 19:00:00 - [191] - Quote I am in favor of this plan. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.05.28 22:10:00 - [192] - Quote One of the allures of BPOs is that they cost no money to run. I thoroughly enjoy having a selection of suits with the GêP symbol next to them. Is it possible when our BPOs are converted to the new system, to get a BPO standard power core, in order to continue having those beautiful GêP symbols next to my loadouts? Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.05.28 22:14:00 - [193] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: One player should always equal another player regardless of what weapon they're using or what suit they're in or what platform they're loaded into. From there you add the variations of skill of the players, gear quality, and gear variety. When you're done the value of one player should still be the value of any other player. Absolutely false. 2 players working together should be better than 3 or more players doing their own thing. Teamwork should make players greater than the sum of their parts. Case in point, a heavy with a login supporting can stifle an entire 6-man squad given the right positioning. This is a good thing. Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.29 05:28:00 - [194] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: One player should always equal another player regardless of what weapon they're using or what suit they're in or what platform they're loaded into. From there you add the variations of skill of the players, gear quality, and gear variety. When you're done the value of one player should still be the value of any other player. Absolutely false. 2 players working together should be better than 3 or more players doing their own thing. Teamwork should make players greater than the sum of their parts. Case in point, a heavy with a logi supporting can stifle an uncoordinated 6-man push given the right positioning. This is a good thing. Sorry but the value of 2 players should be 2 players valued. I did not say that 2 players should equal 2 players. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3	Posted - 2015.05.29 06:36:00 - [195] - Quote It's finally happening. Cheers Rattati! EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet". My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.29 07:48:00 - [196] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: It was pretty clear from his post he was implying multiple AV users to 1 vehicle. This can easily be demonstrated by his last update straight up saying a full AV squad vs a single HAV driver comes down to fatal mistake when equally skilled. This is what is commonly known as "being deliberately obtuse." I have no respect for an opinion based on what you want him to Mean versus what he actually SAID. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.05.29 12:20:00 - [197] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My main worry was that it could be exploited, not necessarily in terms of "same as proto", but maybe comparably good as ADV for the price of STD. Keep it going, I can always increase the ISK cost of them to fight stacking. Ratatti you should keep in mind that to push a STD suit to ADV it would require 1 complex PG module and 1 complex PG module. Both modules and the STD suit combined costs more then going stright to the market and buying a ADV suit. You can do that with a Apex suit right now but then you pay more ISK for fitting modules then for the ADV suit itself. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.05.29 16:48:00 - [198] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My main worry was that it could be exploited, not necessarily in terms of "same as proto", but maybe comparably good as ADV for the price of STD. Keep it going, I can always increase the ISK cost of them to fight stacking. Wouldnt all of the suits proportionally go up in capapbility? Std becaomes nearly as good as current ADV, and ADV beomces nearly as good as current Proto, and full proto (given disparity between it and the regular suits) stays the same. Sure you can plug in a couple CPU mods, but your giving up tank, regen, speed that a suit of a higher tier can comfortably fit. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 17:06:00 - [199] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: My main worry was that it could be exploited, not necessarily in terms of "same as proto", but maybe comparably good as ADV for the price of STD. Keep it going, I can always increase the ISK cost of them to fight stacking. Wouldnt all of the suits proportionally go up in capapbility? Std becaomes nearly as good as current ADV, and ADV beomces nearly as good as current Proto, and full proto (given disparity between it and the regular suits) stays the same. Sure you can plug in a couple CPU mods, but your giving up tank, regen, speed that a suit of a higher tier can comfortably fit. That's the point of tiercide (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.29 17:42:00 - [200] - Quote Re: CCP Rattati wrote: My main worry was that it could be exploited, not necessarily in terms of "same as proto", but maybe comparably good as ADV for the price of STD. Keep it going, I can always increase the ISK cost of them to fight stacking. Bright Cloud wrote: Ratatti you should keep in mind that to push a STD suit to ADV it would require 1 complex PG module and 1 complex PG module. Both modules and the STD suit combined costs more then going stright to the market and buying a ADV suit. You can do that with a Apex suit right now but then you pay more ISK for fitting modules then for the ADV suit itself. This is a really good point. What's the point of running STD once you got skilled into ADV? (Which is a small amount of SP) Tesfa Alem wrote: Wouldnt all of the suits proportionally go up in capapbility? Std becaomes nearly as good as current ADV, and ADV beomces nearly as good as current Proto, and full proto (given disparity between it and the regular suits) stays the same. Sure you can plug in a couple CPU mods, but your giving up tank, regen, speed that a suit of a higher tier can comfortably fit. Right, and I would guess ADV power creeps further than at STD on suits with comparable slot layouts because x% of a larger number is a larger increase. That's exacerbated further with core skills too. Personally I'm still a little concerned that the suits with more slots will see higher power creep than suits with less (my example being six slots for scouts and eight for assaults)

No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:51:00 - [201] - Quote Something that just occurred to me. Recently our starter suits were updated and the Logistics starter was given a second equipment slot so that people could run as an actual support and see what it was like. Is the Logi starter fit going to be given the same slots as a proto Logi, basically giving everyone a free (non-racial bonus) Logistics suit, or is it going to be removed or what?
RedBleach LeSanglant Molon Labe. RUST415 830	Posted - 2015.05.30 01:37:00 - [202] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: Something that just occurred to me. Recently our starter suits were updated and the Logistics starter was given a second equipment slot so that people could run as an actual support and see what it was like. Is the Logi starter fit going to be given the same slots as a proto Logi, basically giving everyone a free (non-racial bonus) Logistics suit, or is it going to be removed or what? I've been wondering that as well. I wonder if they will have STD fitting space and only what is currently populated modules will be populated on the Starter fits to show NewBros that they can be upgraded. Maybe the fittings will be locked and unalterable? Maybe they will have low fitting space... I don't know, but I wonder about it too. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
Templar XIII Vherokior Combat Logistics 195	Posted - 2015.05.30 20:44:00 - [203] - Quote I like the idea, but it could even go further: GåÆ give the suits the Officer slot layout and have the core distribute CPU/PG as well as GåÆ have the core block existing slots from being fittable... [1] slot blocking could be done for STD to PRO cores to lock only officer slots from them if general tiericide is to be implemented, or [2] slot blocking via power cores could be used to NOT do tiericide, thereby block slots from officer down to STD to uphold the slot progression we have atm. Example [1]: Frames officer core would have the second light weapon slot unblocked from fitting, where STD, ADV and PRO Caldari medium cores would have this slot blocked...the Caldari medium assault suit in itself does sport the second light weapon slot by default, its use and fittability is solely dependent on used core. Following the approach of cores blocking existing slots, not adding slots previously non-existent in suits might be easier to implement. Thanks. Pardon my english, Iam no native to this language.
Skhazi Robotika Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.05.31 16:39:00 - [204] - Quote Templar XIII wrote: GåÆ have the PowerCore at the same time block (like a jig) a suit's existing slots selectively from being fittable... I like this This way it would be similar to how it is right now, right? Hmmm the green M&N..
castba Rogue Instincts New Eden's Heros 921	Posted - 2015.05.31 17:49:00 - [205] - Quote I do not understand the cost progression. 3k, 9k, 81k? Why so non-linear? "When everything is OP, nothing is" - CCP Ratatti
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 31	Posted - 2015.05.31 17:54:00 - [206] - Quote castba wrote: I do not understand the cost progression. 3k, 9k, 81k? Why so non-linear? Rattati said in that thread that 81k isn't going to be the actual cost, it was just a number he threw up there so that people would know that the cost between a proto suit and a proto power core wouldn't change. A lot of people misunderstood, though. I hope he edits the original post to clarify sometime.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.05.31 18:30:00 - [207] - Quote I would like to know what CCP is going to do with the spare resources that are becoming avaible with this? Ya know i would like to see Heavy+Light Aircrafts. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Templar XIII Vherokior Combat Logistics 196	Posted - 2015.06.01 17:27:00 - [208] - Quote Skhazi Robotika wrote: Templar XIII wrote: GåÆ have the PowerCore at the same time block (like a jig) a suit's existing slots selectively from being fittable... I like this This way it would be similar to how it is right now, right? Yeah, this way you can do PowerCores with only 3 suits per race and gender and still decide wether you want to do Tiericide or keep the old slot progression model we have atm. PowerCores never necessitated Tiericide.
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 34	Posted - 2015.06.01 20:14:00 - [209] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Rattati, I am so excited you seem to have this working and even looking better than I thought by not having a ton of power cores as well. Very exciting time in Dust. Some questions 1) Are we actually sticking with the power core name? 2) Can power cores affect other base stats besides CPU/PG? 3) Could a power core be unlocked from the same skill as another but apply a different bonus? This meaning the class racial bonus applies to the core rather than the suit and can thus be swapped with a variant type with a different skill bonus? One step at a time I know, just having fun thinking long term. 4) Officer power cores? CCP Rattati wrote: 1) no idea 2) they can, but not slots 3) not sure, not even sure I understand the question :) 4) yes, but not critical Power cores can't affect the slots, guys.
Templar XIII Vherokior Combat Logistics 197	Posted - 2015.06.01 20:39:00 - [210] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Rattati, I am so excited you seem to have this working and even looking better than I thought by not having a ton of power cores as well. Very exciting time in Dust. Some questions 2) Can power cores affect other base stats besides CPU/PG? [quote=CCP Rattati]1) no idea 2) they can, but not slots Power cores can't affect the slots, guys. The question stays, whether adding slots (modules fitting into slots belonging to PowerCore, not the suit) and modifying existing ones (i.e. make LW a HW weapon slot) was meant (for quite comprehensible reasons, considering the mixed layers to calculate module efficacies and such from, and the performance costs it brings with it) or if simple blocking existing slots was meant as well. The latter one on the other hand (simple, jig-like, visual block from fitting screen view - what cannot be seen, cannot be fitted) sounds quite doable to me.

Void Echo Helix Order 2	Posted - 2015.06.02 02:58:00 - [211] - Quote Instead of giving ISK for BPO dropsy it's why not convert them into skins? Iv been playing since closed beta and the skinweave dropsuits remind me of how long I've actually been playing. Closed Beta Vet. Founder of Helix Order. For the Federation, For Freedom, *Till all are Free*.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.06.02 06:00:00 - [212] - Quote I have a question for you, Rattati. Is it possible to convert the current BPOs into something like a bundle depending on what type of BPO it is? Here is an example... APEX 'Tiger' Scout BPO Converted into the following Bundle: 1x Prototype Minmatar Scout Basic Suit BPO 1x Standard 'Tiger' Scout Power Core BPO - Includes prefitted standard modules 1x 'Tiger' Scout MN SKIN BPO Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.02 14:17:00 - [213] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I have a question for you, Rattati. Is it possible to convert the current BPOs into something like a bundle depending on what type of BPO it is? Here is an example... APEX 'Tiger' Scout BPO Converted into the following Bundle: 1x Prototype Minmatar Scout Basic Suit BPO 1x Standard 'Tiger' Scout Power Core BPO - Includes prefitted standard modules 1x 'Tiger' Scout MN SKIN BPO I think the apex suit either stay as they are or option 2 is the most likely one. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
P14GU3 UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 1	Posted - 2015.06.02 22:17:00 - [214] - Quote Why are the advanced suits red when the basic and proto are gray/black (neutral colors?) Seems like the basic should be white, the adv gray, and the proto black. Leave colors like red/green/blue for skins please. Other than that, keep up the good work ratman. 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 40	Posted - 2015.06.02 23:03:00 - [215] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Why are the advanced suits red when the basic and proto are gray/black (neutral colors?) Seems like the basic should be white, the adv gray, and the proto black. Leave colors like red/green/blue for skins please. Other than that, keep up the good work ratman. I've got to agree with this. Red is way too vibrant of a color, and it'd be easy to be spotted in most terrain. It's like being punished for using Advanced.
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 893	Posted - 2015.06.06 01:02:00 - [216] - Quote I have a question on the whole powercore as it regards PG/CPU. Your initial post has some CPU/PG numbers for Std/Adv/Pro. Are we going to have individual powercores for each race or is it going to be a set powercore across the board? The reason I'm asking is because when it comes to the PG/CPU fittings on the suits, a Caldari and an Amarr has WAY different fitting costs because of the slot layout. If they have the same PG/CPU powercore, one of them is invariably going to get the short end of the stick. Either Amarrs are going to be gimped in fitting their lows or Caldari are going to be gimped in fitting their highs if my thought process is correct, yes? Maybe I'm just not understanding the concept but this has been nagging at me the entire time reading this thread (and yes, I read every post). Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6	Posted - 2015.06.06 01:06:00 - [217] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: I have a question on the whole powercore as it regards PG/CPU. Your initial post has some CPU/PG numbers for Std/Adv/Pro. Are we going to have individual powercores for each race or is it going to be a set powercore across the board? The reason I'm asking is because when it comes to the PG/CPU fittings on the suits, a Caldari and an Amarr has WAY different fitting costs because of the slot layout. If they have the same PG/CPU powercore, one of them is invariably going to get the short end of the stick. Either Amarrs are going to be gimped in fitting their lows or Caldari are going to be gimped in fitting their highs if my thought process is correct, yes? Maybe I'm just not understanding the concept but this has been nagging at me the entire time reading this thread (and yes, I read every post). The PG/CPU of suits will not be standardized, they will continue to have their own % of each. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
DJINN Jecture Templar of the Glowing Blade 403	Posted - 2015.06.06 03:10:00 - [218] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Just like to point out that since Aero's post that started all this, Rattati has been holed up in his lair of dreams cooking this up. A lot of tech evaluation has been done by him and the team. I'd even describe his mood as giddy. After all the changes I've seen in game from the beginning I am more than a little concerned when talking about overhauling suits especially when I look at how badly some well intentioned changes have been implemented. I am glad this offers many options to reduce the load on the outdated hardware but it seems more than likely this is going to break something. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.06 07:59:00 - [219] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: Just like to point out that since Aero's post that started all this, Rattati has been holed up in his lair of dreams cooking this up. A lot of tech evaluation has been done by him and the team. I'd even describe his mood as giddy. After all the changes I've seen in game from the beginning I am more than a little concerned when talking about overhauling suits especially when I look at how badly some well intentioned changes have been implemented. I am glad this offers many options to reduce the load on the outdated hardware but it seems more than likely this is going to break something. Something always breaks. Just run with it and cackle madly while revelling in the insanity. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.06.06 08:01:00 - [220] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: Just like to point out that since Aero's post that started all this, Rattati has been holed up in his lair of dreams cooking this up. A lot of tech evaluation has been done by him and the team. I'd even describe his mood as giddy. After all the changes I've seen in game from the beginning I am more than a little concerned when talking about overhauling suits especially when I look at how badly some well intentioned changes have been implemented. I am glad this offers many options to reduce the load on the outdated hardware but it seems more than likely this is going to break something. I would not be surprised, but at the same time I believe taking the risk is better than not trying in the first place. With your expectation set, should we not be less upset if and when something does go wrong in the attempts to add game variety or hardware efficiency, extending the life of the game? Personally I think we need to do things that either brings players back or keeps new ones (or better, both). Let's embrace it, warts and all.

deezy dabest 2	Posted - 2015.06.07 07:05:00 - [221] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, [img]http://puu.sh/i0Qfj/5f3d7dc537.png[/img] Discuss This is amazing. Its like a dream. You are amazing for being able to implement this, sir. Speaking of dreams, CCP Rattati wrote: My dream, which I am currently running massive calculations on, is whether I can get away with a single Power Core per Size, and use Fitting bonuses to differentiate between Assault and Logistics etc. My preliminary results lead to yes. Would this mean it is possible to add 'type-b" Fitting bonus powercores for certain roles? As a rough example, a Logistics powercore with a 'type-b' fitting bonus of having a reduced racial equipment benefit but a slight buff to the repair tool? This sort of thing was originally on the outer edges of what I would hope the idea could do, but now that it seems possible, how interested are you in this concept? What it sounds like to me is that each suit would receive a fitting bonus that would then apply to all cores. For example if the base pg/cpu of the core is 250/40 then the logi suit would get an X% bonus per skill level to bring it up to the appropriate numbers. I do feel like this is going to make ADV suits far more efficient for top tier players but only after a significant investment in the weapons used and the core skills. Just as an example the fitting optimization on your sidearm could not be the difference between being able to stack an ADV core or have to go to a proto core. It really provides a small SP sink which I feel like is much needed. I feel like the APEX suits should receive some sort of weaker power core and then receive a native fitting bonus to racial weapons instead of just making it a low / mid level core. This would help in keeping their racial identity but may be a bit out of the realm of what is possible.
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2	Posted - 2015.06.08 15:21:00 - [222] - Quote Has anyone suggested the power cores simply adding a fixed +X% CPU and +Y%PG, then relying on the frame's base CPU/PG to make the differences? Example: Prototype Light Power Core- 240% CPU 300% PG Scout A-1, 128 CPU 64PG; 308CPU, 192PG(Obviously i need to rethink the PG %, but you get the idea) Scout M-1, 163 CPU 54PG; 391CPU 162PG Scout C-1, 170 CPU, 48 PG; 408CPU 144PG Scout G-1, 135 CPU, 59 PG; 324CPU, 177 PG This way we have much less coding to do with each core, while still achieving the same results. Also this makes it much easier to fix something like the Caldari Logi having such a profound lack of CPU, because then we just buff the frame, rather than think of whether to fix the core bonuses, or to make the frame have a differing CPU/PG. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
Fluffy Exterminatus Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 42	Posted - 2015.06.09 12:02:00 - [223] - Quote Will starter fits have same slots but with prefitted gear? Will prefitted gear like on starter fits,apex or hellmar ako be fitted on applying their powercore? The black of proto and some apex are best skins in game. If they are for isk will they be useable all suits? If only 1 medium will logi and assault skins still be available? You are going to have to change the name Apex to bottom of the man pile(South Park) because they will be... bad FOTM Min recon starter fit oh wait no one got those CCP Rattati - Grand Dragon Wizard of the Gaylente Agenda Touched by his noodly appendage
Lenz Hong THE ANGELS CALL 27	Posted - 2015.06.11 04:21:00 - [224] - Quote This can be, by any chance, expanded to be used in Weapons, Equipment and Vehicles? Either the weapon modules using the power from the Weapons or the weapon modules forcing the Weapon to use more resources from the Dropsuit?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.11 07:52:00 - [225] - Quote Lenz Hong wrote: This can be, by any chance, expanded to be used in Weapons, Equipment and Vehicles? Either the weapon modules using the power from the Weapons or the weapon modules forcing the Weapon to use more resources from the Dropsuit? This kind of mechanic would actually be best applied if we ever manage to implement rigs in the game. I expect it will have to wait for a port. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Racro 01 Arifistan Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 559	Posted - 2015.06.12 08:24:00 - [226] - Quote Devadander wrote: Skill HAV and you will understand. You guys are thinking this will make your suits op. So not the case. Maybe ratty will be nicer to suits than vehicles... Yup, all tiers have same awesome slot count. To keep you from packing a std hav with pro mods, the pg/CPU is not forgiving. You will fill those extra slots with pg CPU mods and be one module cooler for double the idk. Your std will be as std as ever, your adv sure won't feel adv, and pro will still hand you your waste processing unit. Veterans with max skills will fit well above average suits of the tier you are trying to grind as a NP. Thus, the stdstomp is born. I run adv 90% of the time and will just go pro 100%. All the time. My best gear. In every mode. I can afford it. A lot of them cannot. Veterans are all for this.... I wonder why? Because it makes the game better? Because it enhances npe? More memory for other assets? Lolno. Because they see the opportunity to fit an officer weapon on a std suit, with above adv strength. Killing a pro with a std is currently a mark of skill. All I'm sayin dude. You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. why would you even gimp your tank with fitting mods??? just to fit a high level turret?? std HAV fits well with either STD or ADV lvl mods. dirt cheap 120k isk fit HAV can stomp over a proto squad of infantry when fitted and piloted right. hell you can take on proto fit tanks if your good enough. the reason why tankers got ADV/PRO level hulls was SO that it was/is a viable role at all times. its expensive when compared to running infantry. but why use 1 proto fit 1mill isk tank when I could throw out 10 std fits that can stomp a proto squad. IF I really want I could use the proto fit. but hey. the std fit I run is preety neat and a pain to remove. there should be no reason any tank should be gimping itself with fitting modules....UNLESS you want to fit higher tiered mods. vet's are all for tiericide because it allows the STD/ADV suits to fight more on par with proto gear and OPENS UP ALOT MORE options for std and adv suits than they have now.. WHY the ** would you put an officer weapon on a std/adv suit anyway. honestly why? Elite Gallenten Soldier**
bear90211 Nyain San 233	Posted - 2015.06.12 23:59:00 - [227] - Quote Probably not going to get a reply at all to this, and it was probably already thought of, but have only 12 total 'suit frames' they are completely barren par say and only have a Core slot,but when that slot is fitted it makes the suit frame have the preset amount of slots for the level of core, so there is one frame a race per size (Light, Medium, Heavy) so 12 frames that have no fitting cost that are preset BPO. Figuring in the cores, would you even want to keep Militia? I am thinking that STD should be instantly available instead of just MLT to reduce the extra say hundred and twenty items. So, also figuring that your remove AURUM bought suits (CORES) you would only have 3 cores a role, or 24 (LIGHT) 36 (MEDIUM) 36 (HEAVY) making a vastly reduced list of only 96 cores, and 12 frames, but those frames are free. Tallying in AURUM figuring that there is only one type of aurum bought core at the ADV/PRO level for role specific cores, that would make 32 (LIGHT), 52 (MEDIUM), 52 (HEAVY) making 136 cores and 12 frames. both of these numbers are higher than what you want, but that seems like a good solution for all the number crunching. I realize that BPOs will become SKINS eventually, but say APEX suits are unique and require a CORE slot specific to themselves, and to save room on your PS3 the two would have to share the same color scheme and name, only adding 16. NEXT is the case of OFFICER suits, these are also unique but should remain as a 'suit' or frame par say because people can't just buy them from the market place by pressing X and holding their joystick right. so really AURUM and MILITIA causes a problem, APEX should be combined between the AUR/LP versions, and OFFICER suits should remain as suits. hence the 'modified' in their name. 108 Cores. 12 BPO frames. and X amount of Officer Frames. This also calls for the entire elimination of MLT and switching MLT BPO's to basic BPO's over time, or an AURUM reimbursement of the MLT BPO's and the creation of basic BPO's in their place, this applies to ALL suits, weapons, modules and equipment. My sig is suuper old.. now i rip faces with my HMG. looking for logies yo.btw #tacos
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.13 00:25:00 - [228] - Quote bear90211 wrote: I'm not reading this crap. Until you FORMAT IT CORRECTLY! WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 76	Posted - 2015.06.13 01:49:00 - [229] - Quote Can vehicles and weapon's follow this same path? Could make weapon customisation a thing. (I know this was probably asked already, but I wanted to ask the CCP DEV's this as well). When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 791	Posted - 2015.06.13 02:33:00 - [230] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, [img]http://puu.sh/i0Qfj/5f3d7dc537.png[/img] Discuss More colors plz.

Lady MDK Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 385	Posted - 2015.06.17 21:14:00 - [231] - Quote Question to Mr rattati... Has anyone worked out exactly how much memory this (the power cores idea) would save and what could be done with said free memory afterwards? If you are going to put the effort in might as well have an idea what the benefits will be from a technical standpoint. Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following. I don't care so neither should you :)


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