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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 16 post(s)
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:41:00 - [31] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Sorry Nocturnal, and Denchlad 7, I seem to have caused some confusion. The idea with the 81k was just an example he gave, not the final in game price. Basically the only thing to keep in mind is that the cost of the Proto-suit and the proto-powercore is the SAME. No costs are changing in how much a suit costs. That also applies to you Nocturnal, the suit itself will be just a BPO, but the Powercore still costs ISK, and without said powercore you just have a very nice looking useless suit. So this isn't really making the game any more CoD like, it is just offloading the memory requirements of having so many suits into just having the much cheaper modules. I fully understood what he meant when Aero made the thread on your idea. Its just I fully believe that the suits should still cost isk, everything else I'm fine with. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 594	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:41:00 - [32] - Quote As I said in GD about this, you have my full support ! Btw: Why 81k for the proto suit? Shouldn't that be arround 52k (which is already a lot of ISK) ? Fix the game before trying to add anything else. (Hint: hit detection, lags, glitches,.. you've got some work :) )
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 287	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:42:00 - [33] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Devadander wrote: shrugs Just feels like next step is " well, its all close enough, let's just have one suit class " Enter CoD... Slippery slope fallacy doesn't do much to improve the quality of discourse here. And esoteric rhetoric impresses me not. "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:44:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: This looks absolutely great ! Something worth discussing: Do you want a core for every role, or have -strictly- 3 cores with all possible interactions "baked in"?? In other words: do you envision such a thing as "Basic Assault Core" and "Advanced Medium Frame Core"?? Consider that Assaults, Logis, Sentinels and Commandos all need to continue to have their own suits due to slot layout. Therefore having cores to match might be redundant. It might actually be more elegant to code the cores to react accordingly regardless of what suit they are installed into. Essentially, have only 3 cores. Stuff to think about. I would also suggest that for Officer Suits: allow them to be prefitted with their own core to solve whatever issues they cause. My dream, which I am currently running massive calculations on, is whether I can get away with a single Power Core per Size, and use Fitting bonuses to differentiate between Assault and Logistics etc. My preliminary results lead to yes. Can you clarify this point? Do you mean, for example, fitting the STD core on a Minmatar scout will grant +1 to PG, and fitting the same core on a Minmatar assault will grant -26 to CPU and -1 to PG? That's assuming you want to keep the existing CPU/PG values (I hope you do because at this point I think you should do everything you can to keep everything else the same). Anyway, is my basic example of being able to add / subtract available CPU/PG based on the suit it fits into correct?
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 287	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:47:00 - [35] - Quote On the constructive side. The graphic says red for adv, um, commando? "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 615	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:57:00 - [36] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: Impressive as it is, 81,000 ISK for the Proto Core is ridiculous. Can I ask why? In the example given 81k was the cost of the same Proto Suit, and the powercore makes the BPO suit function exactly as that did. because you're flattening the progression (basic has more slots) without flattening the ISK ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 920	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:02:00 - [37] - Quote Looking great! +1000 On the subject of APEX cores, I hope they will be prefitted (BPO) cores and not a "loose" core which you can put on another suite? I.e like the rest of the equipment on the APEX suites. I also like the fact that the APEX Power cores are in between STD and ADV. This will separate them enough with the rest of the BPO suites to justify their purchase.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:12:00 - [38] - Quote Just like to point out that since Aero's post that started all this, Rattati has been holed up in his lair of dreams cooking this up. A lot of tech evaluation has been done by him and the team. I'd even describe his mood as giddy. CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 287	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:15:00 - [39] - Quote What's really eating me now is wondering about all my assets. Will I get balac cores in place of my balacs? Do we have to purchase the bpo suits? If we already have pro, do we have to buy this skin? If cores cost more/less, do we get adjusted assets to reflect? shivers will it just be a mass asset refund like in the past? Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:17:00 - [40] - Quote Devadander wrote: What's really eating me now is wondering about all my assets. Will I get balac cores in place of my balacs? Do we have to purchase the bpo suits? If we already have pro, do we have to buy this skin? If cores cost more/less, do we get adjusted assets to reflect? shivers will it just be a mass asset refund like in the past? I think your concerns will be covered in a way that you keep your assets with no downsides. One of the aims of this idea (originally at least) is to adjust things without changing the overall setup - e.g. everything should still cost the same etc. I for one think we should stay well away from another asset refund because there is already too much ISK in the game.

Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:30:00 - [41] - Quote Da comrade, is very good. "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 920	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:31:00 - [42] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Devadander wrote: What's really eating me now is wondering about all my assets. Will I get balac cores in place of my balacs? Do we have to purchase the bpo suits? If we already have pro, do we have to buy this skin? If cores cost more/less, do we get adjusted assets to reflect? shivers will it just be a mass asset refund like in the past? I think your concerns will be covered in a way that you keep your assets with no downsides. One of the aims of this idea (originally at least) is to adjust things without changing the overall setup - e.g. everything should still cost the same etc. I for one think we should stay well away from another asset refund because there is already too much ISK in the game. I think if the Officer suites will have power cores they will most likely be pre-fitted like the APEX. Many officer suites have unique slot layouts, so I guess they will be exempt from the Tiericide.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:37:00 - [43] - Quote Sorry but teiricide is a tool to increase variety. Making suit 1 equally appealing to suit 2 instead of suit 1 always being better than suits 2 through 24 because of superior stats. EvE online had a problem with cruisers and frigates in this manner a tear 1 combat cruiser had half the slots of a tier 3 cruiser. Yes the two ships had different roles but because of a forced teiricide rule the tier one was not even allowed to be buffed past tier 1 requirements to even begin to compete against tier 3 or 4 cruisers. EvE destroyed these tiers and now all cruisers are viable in their own roles and equally valued. This is not codifying the game. It's eveifYing it more as your skills which reduce specific weapon and module fittings are now going to more heavily weighed in overall scheme of th8ngs. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 318	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:41:00 - [44] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Devadander wrote: What's really eating me now is wondering about all my assets. Will I get balac cores in place of my balacs? Do we have to purchase the bpo suits? If we already have pro, do we have to buy this skin? If cores cost more/less, do we get adjusted assets to reflect? shivers will it just be a mass asset refund like in the past? I think your concerns will be covered in a way that you keep your assets with no downsides. One of the aims of this idea (originally at least) is to adjust things without changing the overall setup - e.g. everything should still cost the same etc. I for one think we should stay well away from another asset refund because there is already too much ISK in the game. So much ISK that people are fighting their asses of in matches, oh wait no, no they aren't. Thor's Emporium
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:49:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: This looks absolutely great ! Something worth discussing: Do you want a core for every role, or have -strictly- 3 cores with all possible interactions "baked in"?? In other words: do you envision such a thing as "Basic Assault Core" and "Advanced Medium Frame Core"?? Consider that Assaults, Logis, Sentinels and Commandos all need to continue to have their own suits due to slot layout. Therefore having cores to match might be redundant. It might actually be more elegant to code the cores to react accordingly regardless of what suit they are installed into. Essentially, have only 3 cores. Stuff to think about. I would also suggest that for Officer Suits: allow them to be prefitted with their own core to solve whatever issues they cause. My dream, which I am currently running massive calculations on, is whether I can get away with a single Power Core per Size, and use Fitting bonuses to differentiate between Assault and Logistics etc. My preliminary results lead to yes. I don't understand this statement. Could you elaborate? "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 08:54:00 - [46] - Quote My question is concerning how you plan to balance fits and/or do you plan to buff cpu and PG accordingly? I am under the impression that PG/CPU is balanced according to the tier of modules a player ought to fit at basic/adv/proto. For example: I buy an adv power core for my ADV logi and the fit is identical to the 7 slots I have now. I'm short fitting space to fill the remaining two slots. With max skills, i have my all of my fits filled at the maximum of thier PG and CPU capacities. I simply dont have room for two more slots, without sacrificing my adv modules with basic ones that frankly dont cut it. Suggestion: Perhaps buff the standard and adv power cores of each race so that they can fit two more low tier modules to fill in the extra, unused space? So Basic can fit two more basic level modules, advanced 1 basic and one advanced? Proto gets the additional PG/CPU for another Proto module, so that can still be powerful with tiers, even if they keep the same fitting slots. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:23:00 - [47] - Quote I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:25:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. You have two 6's there. Hides from Rattati's wrath "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:26:00 - [49] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. You have two 6's there. Hides from Rattati's wrath Real life LOL "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:28:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. You have two 6's there. Hides from Rattati's wrath Real life LOL On a more serious note, the forums have always been like that. If you don't spell out your idea/suggestion in extreme detail and look at every loose end, people will get hung up on the most unimportant thing and completely derail the thread. It's a sad truth, and having the ability to predict thread derailment is a great asset here. "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:34:00 - [51] - Quote So I can see Basic suits/Assaults using the same powercore (with the [role core] applying its skill bonuses to the suit and maybe modifying some inherent stats) and I can see the same thing happening with heavies/sentinels and lights/scouts. I still think that logistics and commando's would need their own unique dropsuits though, because of slot layout differences. Overall though, this looks like good stuff. Is any of this stuff tenatively applicable to weapons? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:38:00 - [52] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: So I can see Basic suits/Assaults using the same powercore (with the [role core] applying its skill bonuses to the suit and maybe modifying some inherent stats) and I can see the same thing happening with heavies/sentinels and lights/scouts. I still think that logistics and commando's would need their own unique dropsuits though, because of slot layout differences. Overall though, this looks like good stuff. Is any of this stuff tenatively applicable to weapons? You can still do it Assault = 10 slots = 250/50, however fitting bonuses make it more like 300/60 Logistics = 13 slots = 250/50, fitting bonuses on equipment managed to fit the equivalent of 400/70 extreme random example "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:49:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff Don't worry, all the reasonable people like this idea. Cat Merc wrote: You have two 6's there. Hides from Rattati's wrath Rattati's Wrath sounds like an amusement park ride Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:51:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: So I can see Basic suits/Assaults using the same powercore (with the [role core] applying its skill bonuses to the suit and maybe modifying some inherent stats) and I can see the same thing happening with heavies/sentinels and lights/scouts. I still think that logistics and commando's would need their own unique dropsuits though, because of slot layout differences. Overall though, this looks like good stuff. Is any of this stuff tenatively applicable to weapons? You can still do it Assault = 10 slots = 250/50, however fitting bonuses make it more like 300/60 Logistics = 13 slots = 250/50, fitting bonuses on equipment managed to fit the equivalent of 400/70 extreme random example Oh nonono, I thought you had meant for Assaults and Logi's to use the same suit somehow. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 10:01:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff Had to quote it, its too good a line not to. I've posted my own my fair share of forum nastiness. About medium slot and fitting bonuses, though you'd like to know that Dust did have this system in place. Basic and assaults were identical, the only difference was is the suit bonuses. Alot of people used proto basic suits, depending on whether or not the assault bonus was worth it. In those old slayer logi days, they werent. Now if the all have the same number of slots, then there might be in increase in basic suits usagge. A halfway house between having an less SP intensive proto suit, or a more SP intensive proto suit with role bonuses. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
SponkSponkSponk WarRavens 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 10:54:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, Quote: * STD Power Core * APEX Power Core * ADV Power Core * PRO Power Core Discuss Hi, let's not forget: * Militia Power Core * Militia Power Core Blueprint (from militia suit BPOs) * STD Power Core Blueprint (from STD suit BPOs) Dust/Eve transfers
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 11:10:00 - [57] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff Don't worry, all the reasonable people like this idea. For real. I literally think people are just defending the concept of having hardcore advantages over other players through power-levels/tiers just so they can artificially stomp. God forbid we ever put everyone on a one-to-one basis and have things chalked up to actual player skill and fitting. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 11:58:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. It tickles me when you verbally choke a b*tch through the internet. This is all pretty much what the reasonable people have extrapolated (and said) about the intent for the tiericide thing. Just paint a huge bullseye on your ass and invite them to press their lips to it. except that guy. he nasty. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 885	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:08:00 - [59] - Quote So, are we doing away with basic frames? I think we should. Make light, medium and heavy power core skills, standard, advanced and prototype (9 cores), 3 skill branches. Remove basic frame skill branches and allow people to skill directly into the specialised suit. Link basic frame skins to the power core branch (all four races at level 1, 3 and 5) and assault skins to the racial assault branch. So, for example, you could put 1 point into dropsuit command, one point into Caldari assault, and 5 points into medium power cores. This would allow you to use a Caldari assault dropsuit, with a prototype power core, but with only Caldari assault bonuses at level one. You could fit it with any of the 3 basic frame skins or the standard assault skin. How does that sound?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:09:00 - [60] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: For real. I literally think people are just defending the concept of having hardcore advantages over other players through power-levels/tiers just so they can artificially stomp. God forbid we ever put everyone on a one-to-one basis and have things chalked up to actual player skill and fitting. Wait wait wait. You mean that makig new players want to ragequit within thirty minutes of finishing eatig 20GB of their monthly bandwidth is BAD??!?!?!?!?!??! WHO COULD HAVE KNOWN THIS??? Oh wait, everyone. Carry on. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.



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