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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
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Posted - 2015.05.26 12:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:I sometimes wonder why I share stuff
1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same.
2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU.
3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores.
4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that.
5) The CoD argument is utterly trite
6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic.
6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine.
Well for instance... how would you balance the power of a suit that has a spare high or low slot? Right now i can make apex suits that are functionally superior to an adv suit but only costs me 20k isk.
for example, the power of a caldari assault suit comes from its short shield delays and high shield recharge. the low pg of cal suits isnt an issue when complex shield regulators cost only 3 pg and all shield rechargers and energizers cost zero pg. all i add is a cpu mod and i have a fit that only differs from my proto build by 100 hp, 0.10 shield recharge hp/s, and the cardiac regulator i would use. i get a proto ARR on this apex suit too.
so im predicting that the use of proto powercores will actually be very limited since the real limiting factor of suits has jusr been removed. the use of fitting mods will go up because the a 5k isk cpu mod is alot more appealing than a 81k isk powercore. wait a few months add youll see it in the data |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
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Posted - 2015.05.26 12:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Dear Players, Quote:* STD Power Core
* APEX Power Core
* ADV Power Core
* PRO Power Core Discuss Hi, let's not forget: * Militia Power Core * Militia Power Core Blueprint (from militia suit BPOs) * STD Power Core Blueprint (from STD suit BPOs) Agreed!
will there be APEX powercores? |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
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Posted - 2015.05.26 14:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:
will there be APEX powercores?
What does the picture say?
lol ok. cool.
here's another question... did you reduce the fitting on APEX suits today and why? |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
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Posted - 2015.05.27 00:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Finally, the best way to exploit ISK gains in FW is to rapidly lose multiple LAV BPOs with BPO fittings.
Please reduce the total ISK value of all of these below 1000 ISK so that JLAVs are not going to be a profitable means of destroying tanks.
I love watching tank drivers rage, but this one hits my insanity limit.
Hard.
My favorite way to troll suicide jeeps... Sitting in my tank behind a wall of proxy explosives. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
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Posted - 2015.05.27 00:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
There's an issue I have with the pricing of proto power cores. They aren't competitively priced.
A std power core + a complex fitting mod is cheaper than an advanced power core and offers similar benefits. But an adv power core is cheap enough that the costs are worth the gains in freeing up an additional slot.
But a proto power core priced at 81k isk? No. I can take an advance core, add a complex fitting mod and most likely fit a proto primary weapon with complex modules for a total suit cost of 81k isk or less.
No that's not a problem currently because there's no working market supply/demand, but this clearly doesn't scale. And I thought all designs were to suit the larger overall design. This doesn't.
That probably why when I logged on today, all my apex suits suddenly had less fitting on them. Because I can literally make a suit for 20k isk that stands toe to toe with 200k proto suits.
Why is any of this a problem? Because Rattati just changed how the reward systems work in FW and PC. If I can make proto suits for dirt cheap, then where does the isk come from that we are supposed to get when we win matches? If the whole enemy team runs 20k isk suits then the payout is crap for beating them.
What happens next? Do we run pubs to make our isk? Do PC corps become massively wealthy again because they can fight at top performance without suffering real losses? Where'd the isk sink go in this? |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
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Posted - 2015.05.27 00:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Finally, the best way to exploit ISK gains in FW is to rapidly lose multiple LAV BPOs with BPO fittings.
Please reduce the total ISK value of all of these below 1000 ISK so that JLAVs are not going to be a profitable means of destroying tanks.
I love watching tank drivers rage, but this one hits my insanity limit.
Hard. My favorite way to troll suicide jeeps... Sitting in my tank behind a wall of proxy explosives. I just gained 20k ISK by blowing up on your proxies. See the problem?
What problem? All that happened is depending on which proxies I used, you made more isk than it cost me. Sounds like free isk to me and it doesn't hurt my wallet. If it doesn't hurt my wallet then it doesn't matter.
As long as I don't die, I can resupply as many times as I want, for free. So that's more free isk if you want it lol
EDIT: never mind. I misread your post lol. Yea you're making isk killing yourself. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
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Posted - 2015.05.27 11:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings.
Think about it! transfer the PG/CPU function entirely to the cores and phase out the STD and ADV suits. Make three tiers of core per suit class, (9 total ISK cores) for heavy, medium and light. a STD core plus 4 pg upgrades and 4 cpu upgrades is much higher than a proto core, if I use std and pro dropsuit values and 4 and 8 slots comparatively
he finally gets it lol.
this is why you cant justify the 81k isk price of a proto powercore lol
it also breaks your new reward system for PC as you can run way cheaper suits that still perform competitively.
now ill say im against you method of fixing the situation, because youre limiting our ability to fit our dropsuits creatively. youre making our sandbox smaller.
be more creative in your solutions, because this problem was what I was worried about before. Because we have adv and proto versions we feel the need to tie player progression and power to "better" suits. There shouldnt be any "better suit" or "better powercore."
Go make a thread in eve and ask what the "best" ship is... theyll tell you that there is no "best" ship. Everything has a design, purpose, or role that is filled.
The powercore attempts to solve a hardware issue without changing the overall meta of the game and without too much effort. but now youre seeing thats not going to happen.
You need to be looking elsewhere for your player progression. You could have simply made one suit like youre doing, but instead of using a powercore simply make one standard PG/CPU design for each suit,
- use the two fitting skills to increase PG/CPU to allow the suit fit adv modules
- suit role bonuses to decrease fitting cost of role base gear/weapons
- add fitting optimization skills for modules and equipment, so that when all fitting skills (combined with the above) are at level 5, you can fit proto gear/weapons on the suits
then you wouldnt need to tinker with fitting mods overpowering "proto cores" or needing to adjust the costs of modules.
This is true tiercide. theres no isk exploits, and player progression is clear: Train your skills if you want to become more powerful. It eliminates the "isk advantage" between new players and older players while the "SP advantage" is negated through the use of AUR and LP gear.
Does this require you to do work? yes. Is it a better overall solution in terms of game design? yes.
Are you going to do it? probably not lol |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
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Posted - 2015.05.27 11:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings.
Think about it! transfer the PG/CPU function entirely to the cores and phase out the STD and ADV suits. Make three tiers of core per suit class, (9 total ISK cores) for heavy, medium and light. a STD core plus 4 pg upgrades and 4 cpu upgrades is much higher than a proto core, if I use std and pro dropsuit values and 4 and 8 slots comparatively Maybe so, but then you have nothing fitted in your 4 high and 4 low slots. Sure you can fit high end weapons and equipment with that kind of setup but that's kinda the point of fitting modules. As you upgrade the core you eliminate some of those fitting upgrades for actual HP mods, profile dampeners, precision enhances, damage mods, etc. You are making a significant sacrifice by only using a fitting bonus mod in those slots.
that depends. if youre specializing, then no youre not sacrificing anything.
if im sniping then ill only need to fit the a proto sniper rifle and then some damage mods.
if im a tanker, i dont need anything and i might bring to proto proxy explosives and grenades
you cant be jack of all trades but you can be competitive at something at least |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1
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Posted - 2015.05.27 11:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:most of my pilot suits are either empty or mobility based scouts
point is that such gimmick suits are severly weak in something if they fit that many cpu or PG or they're going to be out of one or the other with the steeper cost in each other's resources.
i use the proxies to defend against suicide jeeps |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1
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Posted - 2015.05.27 11:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:most of my pilot suits are either empty or mobility based scouts
point is that such gimmick suits are severly weak in something if they fit that many cpu or PG or they're going to be out of one or the other with the steeper cost in each other's resources.
I mean sniper fit? good luck shoving all those damage slot into the high slots with cpu mods sharing the same slot rack. PG issues can be absolved by not even fitting the lows at all.
cpu mods are low slots. you must not use them lol
1 complex cpu mod is enough to fit a a proto sniper rifle and if you use the LP variant then you can also fit damage mods pretty easily as well. and you only need to fit two damage mods as stacking penalties dont make extras beyond that worth it |
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