DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] Limited Tiericide and Power Cores

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

Sticky:[Feedback] Limited Tiericide and Power Cores

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 16 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22	Posted - 2015.05.26 05:43:00 - [1] - Quote Dear Players, Discuss "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22	Posted - 2015.05.26 05:56:00 - [2] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: This looks absolutely great ! Something worth discussing: Do you want a core for every role, or have -strictly- 3 cores with all possible interactions "baked in"?? In other words: do you envision such a thing as "Basic Assault Core" and "Advanced Medium Frame Core"?? Consider that Assaults, Logis, Sentinels and Commandos all need to continue to have their own suits due to slot layout. Therefore having cores to match might be redundant. It might actually be more elegant to code the cores to react accordingly regardless of what suit they are installed into. Essentially, have only 3 cores. Stuff to think about. I would also suggest that for Officer Suits: allow them to be prefitted with their own core to solve whatever issues they cause. My dream, which I am currently running massive calculations on, is whether I can get away with a single Power Core per Size, and use Fitting bonuses to differentiate between Assault and Logistics etc. My preliminary results lead to yes. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:10:00 - [3] - Quote My plan is to see if I can roll out the first part of this, for Commandos and Logistics, and hit 3 birds with one stone. That would remove slot progression, and define the true PG/CPU per layer. When I am able to get a Power Core module in (needs a client update), then phase 2 is the replacement of dropsuits with Power Cores. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:23:00 - [4] - Quote I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:26:00 - [5] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. You have two 6's there. Hides from Rattati's wrath Real life LOL "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 09:38:00 - [6] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: So I can see Basic suits/Assaults using the same powercore (with the [role core] applying its skill bonuses to the suit and maybe modifying some inherent stats) and I can see the same thing happening with heavies/sentinels and lights/scouts. I still think that logistics and commando's would need their own unique dropsuits though, because of slot layout differences. Overall though, this looks like good stuff. Is any of this stuff tenatively applicable to weapons? You can still do it Assault = 10 slots = 250/50, however fitting bonuses make it more like 300/60 Logistics = 13 slots = 250/50, fitting bonuses on equipment managed to fit the equivalent of 400/70 extreme random example "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:11:00 - [7] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, Quote: * STD Power Core * APEX Power Core * ADV Power Core * PRO Power Core Discuss Hi, let's not forget: * Militia Power Core * Militia Power Core Blueprint (from militia suit BPOs) * STD Power Core Blueprint (from STD suit BPOs) Agreed! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:58:00 - [8] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, Quote: * STD Power Core * APEX Power Core * ADV Power Core * PRO Power Core Discuss Hi, let's not forget: * Militia Power Core * Militia Power Core Blueprint (from militia suit BPOs) * STD Power Core Blueprint (from STD suit BPOs) Agreed! will there be APEX powercores? What does the picture say? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:02:00 - [9] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? This is CCP Z's fanfest proposal for 'you are your dropsuit' with the skill progression removed. no "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:25:00 - [10] - Quote 1) no idea 2) they can, but not slots 3) not sure, not even sure I understand the question :) 4) yes, but not critical "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:41:00 - [11] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: As stated before, this proposal is good for the game insofar as it gives us improved performance or allows the devs to bring in other assets/mechanics. Will it improve the NPE? Perhaps yes and definitely no. It might be a little easier for peeps to wrap their heads around, but then again when you think about fitting concepts and what you need to know about the game's systems to effectively fit a dropsuit, this change will make very little difference at all. While it flattens Dust's power curve, it will make max-cored vets on average relatively more powerful: For those who were already running proto/officer 24/7 not much will change, other than their weak prey becoming trivially less weak. For those vets who were running STD/ADV in pubs, this will level them up to their proto brothers a bit, and give them a net gain on newer players since vets have more PG/CPU/use it more efficiently and get more performance out of each module. - Will it change player retention? Hopefully, but at this point the only way i can see that happening is if we get a performance improvement out of it. Does it increase immersion/bring us closer to New Eden? No, it takes us a little farther away from New Eden. There is no BPO in EVE that allows you to build and lose ships at no cost. What are these dropsuits made out of? Woven from the wishes of RMT game designers, perhaps? So far as i can see, there is nothing about the EVE model that makes it unworkable for DUST - ISK can stand in as a proxy for the entire BPO-BPC-minerals-manufacture cycle with a net gain in immersion at no cost to DUST. Will this change stomping? No. Is this an attractive, aesthetic idea? Absolutely. What effect will implementing this idea pay us for the devtime invested? Consider Dust's primary needs in order of importance: Retention, Performance, Known Bugs, Connection to New Eden, Missing/Incomplete Systems, Missing/Incomplete Content. Which of those needs will the power core idea address? Performance and Content only, imo. In terms of my personal playstyle, power cores are a net gain. In terms of my investment in New Eden, magic bpo dropsuits are a net loss. In terms of the player experience in Dust, power cores are valuable if they improve performance/content. How much, in terms of in-match frames per second, menu loading times & new assets, will implementing power cores bring to Dust? OK, they cost one ISK because they are mass manufactured and the power comes from the modules that are expensive. Now they are no longer BPO's. Does it change anything in the economy? No. Does it no longer violate New Eden's rule of no BPO's. Yes. Then it must be better, right? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 15:48:00 - [12] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? This is CCP Z's fanfest proposal for 'you are your dropsuit' with the skill progression removed. no If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck..... Maybe your 'No.' stands on a technicality, but this current proposal is much closer to what Z proposed that what we've had, so.... No. How is skill progression removed in this proposal? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.27 09:59:00 - [13] - Quote Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.27 10:51:00 - [14] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! I have been thinking and the more I think about it the more I am going have to say that I think this fear is unfounded; the apex of player ability; is to have the knowledge; and skill in this game to be able to run and run effectively at isk costs and fitting; trading off proper modules for gains and advantages and this scenario would actually justify the use of CPU and PG modules as they're no longer not paying their slot consumption weight barely but being able to enjoy it further out for higher grade modules elsewhere. A second or third fitting module would simply make it a std slot layout with full adv-proto mix. Even if a highly skilled veteran where to make an unusual glass house fit to get a performance not normally seen at that 'tier' a lesser skilled player can attempt to mimic the setup using weaker gear but having access to the same slots can empower the player to achieve semi-relatable performance instead of a gulf of impossibility. There are ways to balance this fear out though; you can simply adjust the fitting modules; make officers/experimental harder to fit so that only prototype suits would fancy fitting them; adding additional module fitting skills to modules that do not currently enjoy them and much more. I'd have to agree with IWS sentiment here as well. It's not enough to have sentiment, I did the numbers. To prevent stacking, I need to crush the bonus given by capacity upgrades. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.27 10:52:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! transfer the PG/CPU function entirely to the cores and phase out the STD and ADV suits. Make three tiers of core per suit class, (9 total ISK cores) for heavy, medium and light. a STD core plus 4 pg upgrades and 4 cpu upgrades is much higher than a proto core, if I use std and pro dropsuit values and 4 and 8 slots comparatively "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.27 12:30:00 - [16] - Quote My main worry was that it could be exploited, not necessarily in terms of "same as proto", but maybe comparably good as ADV for the price of STD. Keep it going, I can always increase the ISK cost of them to fight stacking. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"