Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.05.26 16:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
OK, they cost one ISK because they are mass manufactured and the power comes from the modules that are expensive. Now they are no longer BPO's. Does it change anything in the economy? No. Does it no longer violate New Eden's rule of no BPO's. Yes. Then it must be better, right?
Well, it wasn't so much a rule of 'no BPO's so much as 'no BPO without -SOME- kind of cost'. You can get a BPO and make endless amounts of ships but you still had to buy and/or accumulate the materials to manufacture that endless amount of ships.
Point in case: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Myrmidon_Blueprint
And I -really- hate it when people bring up the Rookie ship as a legitimate argument because it isn't one.
I'm just saying
CCP Rattati wrote:
How is skill progression removed in this proposal?
Lol... Probably means slot-progression... Which was always a terrible mechanic from start to finish... You got the win because of an artificial gain in power that you spent more ISK on whereas if we both had the same power-level gear, I would have won through skill and a better fit.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.05.26 21:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:Eve Pilots also don't need to pay for their pods. They get those for free.
Same concept. The pod, like the suit i the power core module, is basically just the thing you slot in the important bits. (slot a pod into a real ship, or slot a powercore into the useless suit)
Either way it is the same concept, there is some essential lore-important item that is 'free' because it is pretty pointless to assign a cost to it. The real meat of what makes the game tick is in the items you actually pay for. (Ships / powercores)
Also, I -really- don't see why we are even having this argument. Nothing changes, and we still lose all our ISK assets when we die. The value of losing a suit does not change by a single ISK Cent, and it doesn't even change the number of things you have to buy.
The dropsuit is like the ship. If you want to compare the pod to anything, compare it to the clone inside the dropsuit, which is also free.
The premise is that Ship BPO's in Eve Online still have a material debt. You still have to go and procure all the minerals to construct the ship itself and nothing is exempt from that. There is loss and value to everything. T2 ships have higher, risk-intensive material costs (exploration procured) and T3 are even -more- risk intensive (wormhole space). The only way you could ever compare a Dropsuit BPO to that of a Ship BPO is if someone is out there mining for steel/tungsten/aluminum whatever to put the things together - that isn't the case, so it needs an ISK cost.
And it's not so much that hyper-traditionalists like myself WANT players to suffer debt and the inability to fund their war efforts... It's just that we want them to consider what they're losing and legitimately question whether or not it was worth it in retrospect. We want players to actually -feel- the impact of losing that suit because The Endless Cycle entails Buying Gear, Fighting in battle for pay/losing gear, and then buying gear to continue the cycle. That's why it's called The Endless Cycle. If you take out the ISK factor than it's not so much a cycle as a rail-roaded money making simulator.
This isn't even to say that I'm against BPOs - I'm not - I'm just against their power. A rookie ship in Eve (being free) can't go out and topple empires. It's impossible due to the game's design. A BPO Dropsuit can, provided the player is skillful enough, because the fitting disparity isn't enough to give the person who's paying ISK such a competitive edge that the BPO is fundamentally useless.
There is nothing more frustrating than running Prototype/Specialist/Experimental/Officer gear and getting blown up be RE's on an APEX suit, or two-shotted by a Shotgunner APEX. It's really undermining the effort, time, and skill progression I went through for that amount of power when this dude isn't losing anything. He shelled out real-life money and now never has to suffer the feeling of risk because if he dies he can just come right back and continue making a profit. Is my gear better than his? Technically, yes, but he is just as capable of killing me as anyone else. That isn't the case in Eve which has guaranteed advantages toward certain dependent conditions to form a true rock/paper/scissors element.
In Dust's case, it's not so much Rock/Paper/Scissors because they're all capable of beating one another, just with minor variations in how long it takes.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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