DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] Limited Tiericide and Power Cores

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Alright, my problems with the plan are based on my understanding of how the database is organized and how the dropsuits are rendered. As far as I personally am concerned, performance is of paramount concern, above any and all other concerns. But as far as my understanding goes:

1: Each individual dropsuit stat block currently has it's own unique to the database model, complete with animations and everything. So a quafe C-1 and and a standard assault C-1 are the same thing with different skins, but the system treats each one as a separate entity rather than requiring identical models and different textures.

2: there are over 160 dropsuits in the database as individual entities.

3: the system only needs 3 frames for each race, 1 logi, 1 assault, 1 scout, 1 commando and 1 sentinel because there are no "UNIQUE" dropsuit models. The only changes are the SKINS

4: Each dropsuit model is preloaded into the memory of each PS3 in play, meaning there are a potential 160 COMPLETELY different dropsuits preloaded between 960 potential UNIQUE fittings between 32 characters. This seems like unnecessary database bloat to me.

Rather than having three dropsuits for each class I propose

1 racial frame for each of the three sizes, which is a total of 12

1 assault for each race (4)

1 Logi for each race (4)

1 Scout for each race (4)

1 commando for each race (4)

1 sentinel for each race (4)

for a total of 32 discrete dropsuits.

Each dropsuit retains the prototype layout.

The progression is in the power cores.

one power core for each "Tier" which defines a dropsuit as having X PG/CPU for each class or size of dropsuit, depending on what's feasible and causes the least headaches.

Render the SKINs for the different tiers as ISK purchases when you achieve the appropriate skill or something.

This completely reduces the pre-loading to the minimum possibnle level and is likely to maximize the gains in memory.

APEX/BPOs discussed in next post.

applying this idea to weapons (creating a second SKIN slot in each dropsuit for the weapon) will allow similar reduction in weapon models.

WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 16 post(s)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 11:58:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff 1) How on earth can the 81k be a point of consternation. It's a figurative number that's the same in the first and second line of the example, meant to show that the ISK burn is the same. 2) Why would the dropsuit need to cost anything, when the ISK burn has been moved to the Power Core? That's the core principle that you don't lose the suit, just fit it for the occasion without managing tons of different dropsuit types that all have the same PG/CPU. 3) There will be no refund of any ISK. Advanced and Prototype suits get refunded with Adv and Pro Powercores. 4) SKINs, could be simply purchased by ISK, still be BPO's and unlocked by the same skill as the Powercore/Dropsuit, so there would be progression and persistence in that. 5) The CoD argument is utterly trite 6) Sizes would each have it's own Power Core progression, but Logis/Assault and Basic could be all the same Powercore. Basic would be the normal, but Assault Dropsuits grant fitting bonuses so eventually, with the combat skills, would become a better Assault than Basic. 6) Balancing would then happen much more on the PG/CPU cost of Gear side, adjusted to fit faction doctrine. It tickles me when you verbally choke a b*tch through the internet. This is all pretty much what the reasonable people have extrapolated (and said) about the intent for the tiericide thing. Just paint a huge bullseye on your ass and invite them to press their lips to it. except that guy. he nasty. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 12:09:00 - [2] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: For real. I literally think people are just defending the concept of having hardcore advantages over other players through power-levels/tiers just so they can artificially stomp. God forbid we ever put everyone on a one-to-one basis and have things chalked up to actual player skill and fitting. Wait wait wait. You mean that makig new players want to ragequit within thirty minutes of finishing eatig 20GB of their monthly bandwidth is BAD??!?!?!?!?!??! WHO COULD HAVE KNOWN THIS??? Oh wait, everyone. Carry on. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 17:46:00 - [3] - Quote I don't like the price hike for the suits at pro. other'n that, golden. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 23:23:00 - [4] - Quote Alright, my problems with the plan are based on my understanding of how the database is organized and how the dropsuits are rendered. As far as I personally am concerned, performance is of paramount concern, above any and all other concerns. But as far as my understanding goes: 1: Each individual dropsuit stat block currently has it's own unique to the database model, complete with animations and everything. So a quafe C-1 and and a standard assault C-1 are the same thing with different skins, but the system treats each one as a separate entity rather than requiring identical models and different textures. 2: there are over 160 dropsuits in the database as individual entities. 3: the system only needs 3 frames for each race, 1 logi, 1 assault, 1 scout, 1 commando and 1 sentinel because there are no "UNIQUE" dropsuit models. The only changes are the SKINS 4: Each dropsuit model is preloaded into the memory of each PS3 in play, meaning there are a potential 160 COMPLETELY different dropsuits preloaded between 960 potential UNIQUE fittings between 32 characters. This seems like unnecessary database bloat to me. Rather than having three dropsuits for each class I propose 1 racial frame for each of the three sizes, which is a total of 12 1 assault for each race (4) 1 Logi for each race (4) 1 Scout for each race (4) 1 commando for each race (4) 1 sentinel for each race (4) for a total of 32 total discrete dropsuits. Each dropsuit retains the prototype layout. The progression is in the power cores. one power core for each "Tier" which defines a dropsuit as having X PG/CPU for each class or size of dropsuit, depending on what's feasible and causes the least headaches. Render the SKINs for the different tiers as ISK purchases when you achieve the appropriate skill or something. This completely reduces the pre-loading to the minimum possibnle level and is likely to maximize the gains in memory. APEX/BPOs discussed in next post. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 23:29:00 - [5] - Quote Continuing the above, and to butcher certain potential exploits involving APEX which have an assigned ISK value of 57,000 in the SDE: All BPOs are turned into STD CORE BPOs of the appropriate suit class and a BPO of the suit class as well as the texture SKIN. This is also to minimize the memory drain just in case the DEV team needs it in the future to bring us cool things. APEX suits should render 1 appropriate STD core BPO, and BPOs for all equipped modules/weapons as well as an APEX SKIN. This reduces the ISK value of the APEX from 57,000 ISK to 1,000. This chops the potential suicide exploits for FW reimbursement to maybe 400 ISK/suit plus mods. I am of the opinion that if you're going to attack a problem, attack it until it is no longer a problem. Reducing the pre-load RAM allotment of the PS3s by as much as possible now might cause some framerate improvements here, but also can create a buffer for future development. There's no point in adding cores if you intend to keep tiers. None. This post was brought to you by the baffling explanations of Iron Wolf Saber, and dear God I hope he was just explaining poorly. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.26 23:31:00 - [6] - Quote Finally, the best way to exploit ISK gains in FW is to rapidly lose multiple LAV BPOs with BPO fittings. Please reduce the total ISK value of all of these below 1000 ISK so that JLAVs are not going to be a profitable means of destroying tanks. I love watching tank drivers rage, but this one hits my insanity limit. Hard. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:25:00 - [7] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Finally, the best way to exploit ISK gains in FW is to rapidly lose multiple LAV BPOs with BPO fittings. Please reduce the total ISK value of all of these below 1000 ISK so that JLAVs are not going to be a profitable means of destroying tanks. I love watching tank drivers rage, but this one hits my insanity limit. Hard. My favorite way to troll suicide jeeps... Sitting in my tank behind a wall of proxy explosives. I just gained 20k ISK by blowing up on your proxies. See the problem? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:53:00 - [8] - Quote He who laughs last, think slowest. He who laugh first, is likely guilty. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 01:03:00 - [9] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I sometimes wonder why I share stuff https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CF-P-iJUIAAkhM7.jpg:large Pack it up boys, Pokey wins the thread. I'm pretty sure masochism is actually the answer. And an irrepressible urge to see just how deep the rabbit hole of idiocy actually goes. I have yet to find the bottom. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 10:48:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Fixed slot progression will require, I don't see a way around it, a limit of 1 PG and CPU upgrade per fitting, or make them to ISK expensive to stack. Either that or make sure that having an 8 slot std dropsuit (instead of 4 before) does not get you above Proto fittings. Think about it! transfer the PG/CPU function entirely to the cores and phase out the STD and ADV suits. Make three tiers of core per suit class, (9 total ISK cores) for heavy, medium and light. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:22:00 - [11] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: a STD core plus 4 pg upgrades and 4 cpu upgrades is much higher than a proto core, if I use std and pro dropsuit values and 4 and 8 slots comparatively ...but what does it matter if you have all that PG/CPU, if you have no slots left... I really am asking, I feel like I am missing something here? why in God's name would I fit that when i can generally rock a much better overall fit by maxing my cores? I can already fit proto guns to suits, or fit rockin' tank with just fitting skills A fitting mod may be benefricial, but each additional mod one takes should be considered a step closer to gimping your fit. 4 mods each sounds strong on paper, but the costs outweigh the benefit. If I, for instance, on my minmatar sentinel, for whatever reason put two PG/CPU mods in the highs and lows, I'll have one mod to choose for damage mods, or shields, and no lows for speed, plates or recovery. What do I get in return? Gank in the form of beefier weapons. This is honestly a bad choice for me, because I completely sacrifice all survivability and a significant potential chunk of DPS. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 11:33:00 - [12] - Quote Deathwind, how does utilizing all of your fitting slots for PG/CPU mods benefit you? Sure, you can fit a proto gun. Just like I can with maxed cores and Standard mods in every other slot. this multiple PG/CPU thing is net benefit of zero WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 12:40:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My main worry was that it could be exploited, not necessarily in terms of "same as proto", but maybe comparably good as ADV for the price of STD. Keep it going, I can always increase the ISK cost of them to fight stacking. Eh, honestly IMHO you're better off ith the full ADV, sure you can ghetto a fit, but odds are you won't pull it off unless you're just about maxed out on the skills WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.27 16:45:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alright, my problems with the plan are based on my understanding of how the database is organized and how the dropsuits are rendered. As far as I personally am concerned, performance is of paramount concern, above any and all other concerns. But as far as my understanding goes: 1: Each individual dropsuit stat block currently has it's own unique to the database model, complete with animations and everything. So a quafe C-1 and and a standard assault C-1 are the same thing with different skins, but the system treats each one as a separate entity rather than requiring identical models and different textures. 2: there are over 160 dropsuits in the database as individual entities. 3: the system only needs 3 frames for each race, 1 logi, 1 assault, 1 scout, 1 commando and 1 sentinel because there are no "UNIQUE" dropsuit models. The only changes are the SKINS 4: Each dropsuit model is preloaded into the memory of each PS3 in play, meaning there are a potential 160 COMPLETELY different dropsuits preloaded between 960 potential UNIQUE fittings between 32 characters. This seems like unnecessary database bloat to me. Rather than having three dropsuits for each class I propose 1 racial frame for each of the three sizes, which is a total of 12 1 assault for each race (4) 1 Logi for each race (4) 1 Scout for each race (4) 1 commando for each race (4) 1 sentinel for each race (4) for a total of 32 discrete dropsuits. Each dropsuit retains the prototype layout. The progression is in the power cores. one power core for each "Tier" which defines a dropsuit as having X PG/CPU for each class or size of dropsuit, depending on what's feasible and causes the least headaches. Render the SKINs for the different tiers as ISK purchases when you achieve the appropriate skill or something. This completely reduces the pre-loading to the minimum possibnle level and is likely to maximize the gains in memory. APEX/BPOs discussed in next post. applying this idea to weapons (creating a second SKIN slot in each dropsuit for the weapon) will allow similar reduction in weapon models. Ignore me, I got confused when IWS tried to explain how the process would work. I'll try not to translate IWS-ese without an adult present in the future. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.28 11:59:00 - [15] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Kind of off topic but i can't say I agree with anything you wrote. Balance is not a squad of AV vs one tanker. Militia AV should be equivalent to militia guns. Harder to kill byt feasible on a one vs one scenerio. The instant a tank is worth two infantry is the instant balance gets tossed out the window. pay attention to what he said. Maken compared extremes On opposite end of the spectrum. He never said at any point that an HAV should inherently require a squad to kill. He used a variable example of a squad versus a tank comparing idiots in avaction at extremes of gear disparity. He did not address a competent AV versus a competent tanker in a 1v1 situation with comparable gear at all. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.05.29 07:48:00 - [16] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: It was pretty clear from his post he was implying multiple AV users to 1 vehicle. This can easily be demonstrated by his last update straight up saying a full AV squad vs a single HAV driver comes down to fatal mistake when equally skilled. This is what is commonly known as "being deliberately obtuse." I have no respect for an opinion based on what you want him to Mean versus what he actually SAID. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.06 07:59:00 - [17] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: Just like to point out that since Aero's post that started all this, Rattati has been holed up in his lair of dreams cooking this up. A lot of tech evaluation has been done by him and the team. I'd even describe his mood as giddy. After all the changes I've seen in game from the beginning I am more than a little concerned when talking about overhauling suits especially when I look at how badly some well intentioned changes have been implemented. I am glad this offers many options to reduce the load on the outdated hardware but it seems more than likely this is going to break something. Something always breaks. Just run with it and cackle madly while revelling in the insanity. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.11 07:52:00 - [18] - Quote Lenz Hong wrote: This can be, by any chance, expanded to be used in Weapons, Equipment and Vehicles? Either the weapon modules using the power from the Weapons or the weapon modules forcing the Weapon to use more resources from the Dropsuit? This kind of mechanic would actually be best applied if we ever manage to implement rigs in the game. I expect it will have to wait for a port. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.13 00:25:00 - [19] - Quote bear90211 wrote: I'm not reading this crap. Until you FORMAT IT CORRECTLY! WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.