DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] Limited Tiericide and Power Cores

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Pseudogenesis wrote:

Devadander wrote:

The slot count idea is the corner nail in the coffin. Having this setup on vehicles made the tiers worthless.

Running basic/adv is pointless, they feel like junk. Further pushing veterans into a pro or no stance.
If power cores can change slot count, its the game changer we need.

Tiericide = last step into vanilla lobby shooter world. Ugh

Lore and fancy names won't save it.

What? This is literally the opposite of what you're describing. This would make Basic and Advanced suits more powerful while leaving Proto suits at the same level they're at now.

Some people seem to think that slot count is the only thing that makes Proto suits powerful. Cause, ya know, those APEX suits make Proto totally pointless right now Roll

/sarcasm

As you said Pseudogenesis, all this really does is bring the bottom up and keep Proto exactly where it is. I think it will do wonders for the overall experience by decreasing the power gap between tiers in a responsible manner.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 16 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22	Posted - 2015.05.26 05:43:00 - [1] - Quote Dear Players, Discuss "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 05:53:00 - [2] - Quote This looks absolutely great ! Something worth discussing: Do you want a core for every role, or have -strictly- 3 cores with all possible interactions "baked in"?? In other words: do you envision such a thing as "Basic Assault Core" and "Advanced Medium Frame Core"?? Consider that Assaults, Logis, Sentinels and Commandos all need to continue to have their own suits due to slot layout. Therefore having cores to match might be redundant. It might actually be more elegant to code the cores to react accordingly regardless of what suit they are installed into. Essentially, have only 3 cores. Stuff to think about. I would also suggest that for Officer Suits: allow them to be prefitted with their own core to solve whatever issues they cause. Know what cannot be known.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22	Posted - 2015.05.26 05:56:00 - [3] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: This looks absolutely great ! Something worth discussing: Do you want a core for every role, or have -strictly- 3 cores with all possible interactions "baked in"?? In other words: do you envision such a thing as "Basic Assault Core" and "Advanced Medium Frame Core"?? Consider that Assaults, Logis, Sentinels and Commandos all need to continue to have their own suits due to slot layout. Therefore having cores to match might be redundant. It might actually be more elegant to code the cores to react accordingly regardless of what suit they are installed into. Essentially, have only 3 cores. Stuff to think about. I would also suggest that for Officer Suits: allow them to be prefitted with their own core to solve whatever issues they cause. My dream, which I am currently running massive calculations on, is whether I can get away with a single Power Core per Size, and use Fitting bonuses to differentiate between Assault and Logistics etc. My preliminary results lead to yes. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

One Eyed King Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 05:59:00 - [4] - Quote This looks simple and effective. Simple is good. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:04:00 - [5] - Quote Therefore we would have 9 cores total, 3 for each size. It would be GREAT to have the whole thing solved via Fitting Bonuses, truly ! It would even be an excuse to tweak some of the other role bonuses that need looking at (logis, commandos, etc). If however you just want to get started without fixing up EVERY role's fitting and other bonuses, you could also hardcode what each "medium" core does in a logi suit, an assault suit, and a medium frame, etc. It would be acceptable considering how much less work would be involved, while you take your time planning all the role bonuses. Know what cannot be known.
Diesel Heat seeker UKheadhunters 18	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:07:00 - [6] - Quote Agreed that it would be great. Also what about customizing skins When all the red dots are away, all the blueberries can come out and play...
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:09:00 - [7] - Quote I support Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:10:00 - [8] - Quote My plan is to see if I can roll out the first part of this, for Commandos and Logistics, and hit 3 birds with one stone. That would remove slot progression, and define the true PG/CPU per layer. When I am able to get a Power Core module in (needs a client update), then phase 2 is the replacement of dropsuits with Power Cores. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:15:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My plan is to see if I can roll out the first part of this, for Commandos and Logistics, and hit 3 birds with one stone. That would remove slot progression, and define the true PG/CPU per layer. When I am able to get a Power Core module in (needs a client update), then phase 2 is the replacement of dropsuits with Power Cores. Sounds like you've got it all figured out and want to do it the right way first, even if it's the hard way. Next question is, how much do we need to raise for you to get the next client update :D !? I'M ALL IN ! Know what cannot be known.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 285	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:24:00 - [10] - Quote The slot count idea is the corner nail in the coffin. Having this setup on vehicles made the tiers worthless. Running basic/adv is pointless, they feel like junk. Further pushing veterans into a pro or no stance. If power cores can change slot count, its the game changer we need. Tiericide = last step into vanilla lobby shooter world. Lore and fancy names won't save it. "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~

Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:30:00 - [11] - Quote I do not see how flattening slot progression will push pros to use proto only. The more SP I got, the more I ended up doing just as well with my advanced and basic suits. Nowadays I only run with my Republic Tiger (apex) suit, which has gimped CPU/PG but all possible slots. This allows me to use and make my fits a lot more creatively. In tiercide, Proto doesn't get better, it stays the same. Basic and Advanced get more options to let you choose what you do with your limited PG/CPU. Know what cannot be known.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:33:00 - [12] - Quote Devadander wrote: The slot count idea is the corner nail in the coffin. Having this setup on vehicles made the tiers worthless. Running basic/adv is pointless, they feel like junk. Further pushing veterans into a pro or no stance. If power cores can change slot count, its the game changer we need. Tiericide = last step into vanilla lobby shooter world. Lore and fancy names won't save it. What? This is literally the opposite of what you're describing. This would make Basic and Advanced suits more powerful while leaving Proto suits at the same level they're at now. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 285	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:05:00 - [13] - Quote Skill HAV and you will understand. You guys are thinking this will make your suits op. So not the case. Maybe ratty will be nicer to suits than vehicles... Yup, all tiers have same awesome slot count. To keep you from packing a std hav with pro mods, the pg/CPU is not forgiving. You will fill those extra slots with pg CPU mods and be one module cooler for double the idk. Your std will be as std as ever, your adv sure won't feel adv, and pro will still hand you your waste processing unit. Veterans with max skills will fit well above average suits of the tier you are trying to grind as a NP. Thus, the stdstomp is born. I run adv 90% of the time and will just go pro 100%. All the time. My best gear. In every mode. I can afford it. A lot of them cannot. Veterans are all for this.... I wonder why? Because it makes the game better? Because it enhances npe? More memory for other assets? Lolno. Because they see the opportunity to fit an officer weapon on a std suit, with above adv strength. Killing a pro with a std is currently a mark of skill. All I'm sayin dude. You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:07:00 - [14] - Quote Damnit Rattati, saw your comment pop up on the Biomassed blog and then had to get out of bed to come over and respond to this. Overall as I expected, and support. For the Red and Black "BPO skins for ISK" what do you mean exactly by that? Will they come pre-equipped with a skin? Or are you saying we will just be able to purchase a Red or Black BPO for ISK and place it on those suits? I assume that existing BPO suits would simply be converted to BPO power cores for that tier? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:08:00 - [15] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Devadander wrote: The slot count idea is the corner nail in the coffin. Having this setup on vehicles made the tiers worthless. Running basic/adv is pointless, they feel like junk. Further pushing veterans into a pro or no stance. If power cores can change slot count, its the game changer we need. Tiericide = last step into vanilla lobby shooter world. Lore and fancy names won't save it. What? This is literally the opposite of what you're describing. This would make Basic and Advanced suits more powerful while leaving Proto suits at the same level they're at now. Some people seem to think that slot count is the only thing that makes Proto suits powerful. Cause, ya know, those APEX suits make Proto totally pointless right now /sarcasm As you said Pseudogenesis, all this really does is bring the bottom up and keep Proto exactly where it is. I think it will do wonders for the overall experience by decreasing the power gap between tiers in a responsible manner. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 285	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:10:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My plan is to see if I can roll out the first part of this, for Commandos and Logistics, and hit 3 birds with one stone. That would remove slot progression, and define the true PG/CPU per layer. When I am able to get a Power Core module in (needs a client update), then phase 2 is the replacement of dropsuits with Power Cores. And please don't get it twisted, I LOVE the core idea! To me this speaks of seeing a pilot suit finally. Maybe a cal heavy weapon anti infantry. Calling it the research facility and not the lag facility. I just hate what tiericide did to the HAV and want to save us all from having it happen to suits. Up with cores! Down with tiericide! "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:13:00 - [17] - Quote Devadander wrote: You will fill those extra slots with pg CPU mods and be one module cooler for double the idk. Except PG and CPU mods have additional costs now, so I mean sure you could put a proto CPU mod on a standard suit, but its going to suck a ton of PG that your suit doesn't have. So you fit a proto PG mod to counteract that issue, which is now sucking the CPU that you gained from the CPU mod. I mean you' throwing a shitfit about the numbers when you dont have the numbers yet. So your argument is completely invalid at this point until you have more information. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 285	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:14:00 - [18] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: Devadander wrote: The slot count idea is the corner nail in the coffin. Having this setup on vehicles made the tiers worthless. Running basic/adv is pointless, they feel like junk. Further pushing veterans into a pro or no stance. If power cores can change slot count, its the game changer we need. Tiericide = last step into vanilla lobby shooter world. Lore and fancy names won't save it. What? This is literally the opposite of what you're describing. This would make Basic and Advanced suits more powerful while leaving Proto suits at the same level they're at now. Some people seem to think that slot count is the only thing that makes Proto suits powerful. Cause, ya know, those APEX suits make Proto totally pointless right now /sarcasm As you said Pseudogenesis, all this really does is bring the bottom up and keep Proto exactly where it is. I think it will do wonders for the overall experience by decreasing the power gap between tiers in a responsible manner. A properly fit rasetsu with skills feels like cheating at 47k a pop.... "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Avallo Kantor 803	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:14:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, [img]http://puu.sh/i0Qfj/5f3d7dc537.png[/img] Discuss This is amazing. Its like a dream. You are amazing for being able to implement this, sir. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:18:00 - [20] - Quote Impressive as it is, 81,000 ISK for the Proto Core is ridiculous. Choo choo chooooo, lets all fck a blender. Dench's Thrift Shop* <-- WIP

Devadander Woodgrain Atari 285	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:19:00 - [21] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Devadander wrote: You will fill those extra slots with pg CPU mods and be one module cooler for double the idk. Except PG and CPU mods have additional costs now, so I mean sure you could put a proto CPU mod on a standard suit, but its going to suck a ton of PG that your suit doesn't have. So you fit a proto PG mod to counteract that issue, which is now sucking the CPU that you gained from the CPU mod. I mean you' throwing a shitfit about the numbers when you dont have the numbers yet. So your argument is completely invalid at this point until you have more information. I do indeed have a model for basing my argument. 30 mil into HAV. I am more than sure suits will get away with more than HAV does, but still. Well that backfired because we had no std adv pro hav before...... "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Avallo Kantor 803	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:22:00 - [22] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: Impressive as it is, 81,000 ISK for the Proto Core is ridiculous. Can I ask why? In the example given 81k was the cost of the same Proto Suit, and the powercore makes the BPO suit function exactly as that did. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:22:00 - [23] - Quote So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Avallo Kantor 803	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:24:00 - [24] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? He listed it as a BPO, so it will not cost ISK (unless they have it as a 1 time purchase, but you'd still probably start with all of them as a newbie) "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:26:00 - [25] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: Impressive as it is, 81,000 ISK for the Proto Core is ridiculous. Can I ask why? In the example given 81k was the cost of the same Proto Suit, and the powercore makes the BPO suit function exactly as that did. Because what Proto suit cost 81k ISK? None. Its substantially more than it is currently, for only a minor change to the suits. Unless I've misinterpreted something I cannot see the logic in making it that expensive, before modules are even fitted, unless its a forceful attempt to stop even the mega-rich running Proto 24/7 ha. Choo choo chooooo, lets all fck a blender. Dench's Thrift Shop* <-- WIP
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:28:00 - [26] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So does the dropsuit still cost isk or not? He listed it as a BPO, so it will not cost ISK (unless they have it as a 1 time purchase, but you'd still probably start with all of them as a newbie) Eh times a changing... (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 285	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:28:00 - [27] - Quote shrugs Just feels like next step is " well, its all close enough, let's just have one suit class " Enter CoD... "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:36:00 - [28] - Quote My only issue trying to figure out what color you're going to make the suits. Can we just keep it to Factional Colors when naked? Also, once again, I'm sleepy. What do you mean BPO? Are your replacing suits with infinite ones and only having Power cores as the main thing you use in place of the suit? If so, then I don't like the idea of not paying for your dropsuit If not, then Zzzzzzzzzzzz Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Avallo Kantor 803	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:37:00 - [29] - Quote Sorry Nocturnal, and Denchlad 7, I seem to have caused some confusion. The idea with the 81k was just an example he gave, not the final in game price. Basically the only thing to keep in mind is that the cost of the Proto-suit and the proto-powercore is the SAME. No costs are changing in how much a suit costs. That also applies to you Nocturnal, the suit itself will be just a BPO, but the Powercore still costs ISK, and without said powercore you just have a very nice looking useless suit. So this isn't really making the game any more CoD like, it is just offloading the memory requirements of having so many suits into just having the much cheaper modules. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:37:00 - [30] - Quote Devadander wrote: shrugs Just feels like next step is " well, its all close enough, let's just have one suit class " Enter CoD... Slippery slope fallacy doesn't do much to improve the quality of discourse here. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.



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