I consider that hp/s as the nuclear option.

However:
The situation is completely different.
Gal Logis had 3/5 slots in addition to having 5hp/s and to top it all off they had 4 equipment.

All of these combined made assaults useless.

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Yes, the totality of the assault/logi imbalance is indeed a different topic. We may be talking about just the assault suits, but why is 5hp/s unbalanced on any suit, regardless of the other factors, but a waste of time here? Taking your earlier example, the Amarr would get ~150 more HP, but the Gal would get 9 more regen. Is that not a decent tradeoff? It's basically like a complex plate in exchange for a complex rep. That's nothing to sniff at, and sounds an awful lot like buffer vs regen.

20db is not very low precision. Nobody is going to wast 4 slots for 20db precision.
cal scout at proto will be the only option to be worth running with 4 shield entenders and 2 cDampeners. std and adv will be worthless and proto only to shield tank.

Maybe.
It just doesn't feel right, I can't explain it.
It feels like the lazy option that would make a mess out of everything.

Ok, Rattati, I'll bite. What would you like from the community to convince you that removing the Amarr logi sidearm solely in the name of "normalizing" is not needed? Were all the suggestions and justifications in the initial Charlie thread insufficient?

I will give you numbers, sample fits, lore justifications, playstyle rationale, take your pick. Tell me what you want, I'll give you a counter-argument. And I will promise you that it will be 100% constructive, expletive-free, and logical/rational. In return I ask only that you do the opposite and justify why you think it so necessary it be removed. May the best argument win.

(I will start out by pre-emptively countering that your OCD and/or simplifying the (honestly not that complicated to begin with) math on slots is a fairly weak basis for making a change of this magnitude that is clearly not supported by the majority of the community.)

Caveat:
I'm not a Logi. I'm no fan of Logis (because of 2013). I've no intention of ever becoming a Logi (because of 2013).

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But if I had skilled into the Amarr Logi it would've been strictly because it has a sidearm slot. That's its defining characteristic, and that defining characteristic has never (to my knowledge) caused problems. I remember when the entirety of Nyain San ran CalLogi, then switched to GalLogi, but I can't say I've ever seen a single one of 'em running an AM Logi.

If AM Logis are saying "we want to keep the sidearm slot rather than adding an H or L slot", I say ... why not?
If AM Logis are saying "we want to keep the sidearm slot and add an H or L slot", I say ... hellsnaw.

That's what regulators are for.

Why dont you try running 2x reg, 4x shield, 1x recharge (after CPU buff)

That suit will have fantastic regen for its health pool

I've beer understood running armor on Cal suits. Shield suits brah

It is low. Thing is, either you make scanning so powerful that dampening is entirely moot, or you make dampening worthwhile, but only at the extreme - that is, it can dodge everything but at a high cost, which is what we're looking at right now.

Dampening only ever affects a single person: the person who is dampening their suit.
Scanning, even if we pretend the future removal of squad sharing is now, affects many people, simple because of communication being able to translate that data into information for your squad mates to act upon.

With extreme dampening evading all scans, period, you're looking at a cold war of damps vs scans: scans can never catch a fully dampened scout, but fully dampening requires an enormous trade-off in terms of survivability and potential EWar fitting, maybe you fit enough to evade most scans..then that 20db CalScout has value in catching those Scouts trying to run less damp-heavy.

It's swings and roundabouts: if your high slots for precision are not worthwhile..skill into Amarr.

[quote=Y-BLOCK]Changing the slot layout is all good & well when u r doing it w/transparency & with player input as u r; however, this would definately call for a dropsuit command respec.

No. This mentality is sickening. If people would pick their suits based on the role and racial fitting philosophy this respec thing would never arise. What you are asking for is just a first class flight to the next FOTM.

All Rattati is doing here is driving fittings towards their eve philosophy.

I've been minmatar assault since it was created because I preferred the idea of a speed based versatile assault suit. This is finally being realized.

You win this round, Cat. I can't form a counter argument against a nebulous uneasiness....

No. This mentality is sickening. If people would pick their suits based on the role and racial fitting philosophy this respec thing would never arise. What you are asking for is just a first class flight to the next FOTM.

All Rattati is doing here is driving fittings towards their eve philosophy.

Hope u r feeling ok from ur aforementioned sickness; but the truth of the matter is I have the choice to play this game in any way I see fit, as u have the right 2 ur opinion. Get well soom!!

Cal suits are severely lacking CPU to fit high-slot modules.
I like the slot layouts, i just hope they can having the fitting flexibility to actually use them all.

we wont. without touching cpu. a 5/2 layout running

2 complex energizers

3 complex extenders

1 complex cpu mod

1 complex regulator

proto RR

proto bolt pistol

proto av nades

youre 20 cpu short. thats with no equipment too. (and Rattati wants two equip slots lol)

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so, std and adv suits wont be able to fit full shield tanks at all and proto suits cant either.

again, these suits are broken because they dont work at all unless you fit one of two specific mods on them. it breaks our freedom and customization of fits when certain mods are mandatory. like cpu mods on cal suits

you also gimp true logis with this.... since ttk is so short and we are #1 target with a repper in our hands...

theres a reason why logi kdr is so low.... this would make it even lower....

simply giving the assault bonuses to being more efficient slayers would be enough to define it from logi slayers, who would not have those bonuses.

Please don't complain logi over K/D because you are not meant to be a slayer. Logi meant to be supporter so use you WP.

50 WP = 1 kill

Logi ratio = [ (LIFETIME WP / 50) - KILLs ] / DEATHS

Prove me wrong.....

Cal assault needs 3 lows at proto and 2 at adv because regulators.

Actually I've been making all my skill choices solely on the racial/storyline philosophy ever since beta. That's why my favorite job in most FPS's is to pilot air vehicles, but gues what I don't do in this game? I don't pilot air vehicles because there are still NO MINMATAR VEHICLES AT ALL IN THIS GAME!!!!!!!

Compared to the Amarr Heavy, the Minmatar heavy is crappy, but I'm still using the Minmatar one instead. One day they may fix that but until then I'm stuck with a crappy suit.

As for the respec, I still think that CCP should just admit the game is in a state of "development" now and give a free respec every year and offer paid AUR repsecs once every 3 months. This will not only stop people from whining about changes that are necessary, but it would also serve to point out to CCP the instant that they fubar something and everyone switches to exploit it. Then CCP will be more likely to fix/nerf such mistakes sooner rather than later and they will have definite statistics to back it up

OK this is literally going nowhere.

Can I ask you to only reply with "I like these changes" and see if there is a harmony in those answers. I seem to see a few happy Min Assaults, what about the GA STD and ADV logis who have been shafted out of slots for no reason that I can see?

My belief was that players were asking for the slots to make more sense, less duplicate options and more racial flavoring. Such as fewer 3-2, 2-3.

I also see a lot of Cals who want to keep their 2 lows to put amor plates or reps, that's really not a playstyle we would design around or cater too.

Also keep in mind that Assaults are getting a decent ehp buff and pg/cpu, so don't use the current pg/cpu as a reason to say "no I don't want 4-1.

Also keep in mind that we will be buffing dmg mods so a better use for high slots.

In the end, we cannot, with slot layout design, stop anyone from doing shield extenders and normal plates. Yes, they will have of ehp, and that is something we are trying to address in Delta with some fitting bonus/efficacy solutions.