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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 37 post(s) |
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11039
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Posted - 2014.07.16 19:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Leeroy Gannarsein wrote:Well, I'd like a 2/5 layout for Amarr Assault; I don't like that we share a layout with the Gallente Assault; makes the differences in the two suits far less pronounced.
I very much want to keep my logistics sidearm, or I would like my uplink bonus expanded to function until I switch suits, rather than until I die.
That's all for now, I think.
2/5 on Amarr Assault would pretty much kill the Gallente Assault.
You could make a faster, more regenerative and more armored suit than a Gallente Assault.
Unless you move modules from lows to highs, buff damage mods, etc', that would kill the Gallente Assault and cement the Amarr Assault as the superior armor based Assault suit.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11042
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Posted - 2014.07.16 20:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Rattati, please shift around module locations at the same time.
It might not seem like a big deal, but trust me when I say this, 5 low slots is EXTREMELY powerful when you consider just how many modules are located in low slots.
You WILL see the Amarr Assault as the #1 Assault suit on the battlefield if they get 2/5 and the modules aren't relocated.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11042
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 20:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
BTW Rattati, I'm pretty sure the UI doesn't support 6 low slots.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11043
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 20:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
I would be forced to shield tank my Gallente Assault if Amarr had 2/5, because I couldn't compete at all with armor, regenerative or not lol
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11043
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 20:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:typo in the top table, the real tables didn't have it
I had a feeling that was the case.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11043
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 21:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Cat Merc wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:typo in the top table, the real tables didn't have it I had a feeling that was the case. Thanks for pointing it out. Still 3 and 6 is awesome! 3 and 6...id love that  6 complex armor reps+3 complex shields? Hellz yeah!
6 complex armor reps to repair... what armor?
That's like having 1000hp/s with 100hp lol
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11043
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 21:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rattati, my mind is blowing up trying to figure out competitive Gal Assault configurations when Amarr Assault has 2/5 slots.
Nothing I can build is competitive, dual tank, armor tank, armor repair, whatever.
And I KNOW how to build armor suits, I have analyzed the ever living crap out of armor since Uprising 1.0 along with Arkena Wyrnspire to create the armor buff thread back before 1.4.
It's really a matter of make high slot utility modules useful, or Gallente Assault will be useless.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11043
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 21:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Come on, it'd be pretty badass!! ok fine, id actually run 1 complex plate, 5 complex reppers 41.25 hp/s 300+ armor 
Would kill that armor before you even get one rep cycle out.
3/3 plate/reps would probably be best all around.
2/4 plate/rep OR rep/plate for more situational fits.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11043
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 21:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Rattati, my mind is blowing up trying to figure out competitive Gal Assault configurations when Amarr Assault has 2/5 slots.
Nothing I can build is competitive, dual tank, armor tank, armor repair, whatever.
And I KNOW how to build armor suits, I have analyzed the ever living crap out of armor since Uprising 1.0 along with Arkena Wyrnspire to create the armor buff thread back before 1.4.
It's really a matter of make high slot utility modules useful, or Gallente Assault will be useless. Damage mod buff would fix that. Make them 3/5/7, and your problem is solved one shield extender for extra buffer and reaction time, rest are damage mods
Due to stacking penalties, it would not solve anything.
Amarr can fit one extender, one damage mod, and boom.
Almost as effective in high slots, but VASTLY superior in low slots.
We're talking an extra 9.375hp/s, 145HP, 1m/s speed, a damp, etc'.
All of these or huge bonuses, when 5% damage in comparison is... not.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11043
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 21:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Rattati, my mind is blowing up trying to figure out competitive Gal Assault configurations when Amarr Assault has 2/5 slots.
Nothing I can build is competitive, dual tank, armor tank, armor repair, whatever.
And I KNOW how to build armor suits, I have analyzed the ever living crap out of armor since Uprising 1.0 along with Arkena Wyrnspire to create the armor buff thread back before 1.4.
It's really a matter of make high slot utility modules useful, or Gallente Assault will be useless. I think we need to buff dmg mods a bit.
Unless you return them to the 10% of the old days, I don't think that would be enough.
Look above.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11044
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 21:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Move speed needs to be considered as well when comparing Amarr and Gallente. Especially considering Amarr have lower base.
We've needed more viable high shields for armor tankers for a long time, that is certainly a problem.
Starting to make me wonder if Kin Cats should, in fact, be a high slot module.... Shield tankers shouldn't really want it and Minnie suits could stack kin cats and shield regs more viably for better speed tanking.
In that case, with buffed damage mods and high slot codebreakers... There could be a place for 3/4 and 2/5.
Also, high base armor repair on Gallente assault could make them quite viable. Changing the Scout gk.0 to 1hp/s and the Assault gk.0 to 3 hp/s could make things very interesting as well.
Meh, that extra HP/s won't make a difference now.
Back when reppers were 6.25hp/s per, it would be huge, but now it's not so hot.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11046
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 21:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Moving Kincats to high would be interesting indeed but we may see some 800 armor amarrs running like minmatars. That sounds scary.
@cat Merc.
Man you're so pro gal assault and armor that you forget about the struggle which has always been minmatar. Your suit will be fine; maybe you'll have to get more creative with your fits. There's nothing which ever said gallente need to be just armor tanked. Given their slot layout they should be slightly dual tanked with a preference towards armor, much like the minmatar is towards shield.
I've messed with gk0 assault fits and can get 300 shield 500 armor at 10 hp/s and even threw in a Kincat for fun.
Lmao, the Minmatar is the second best Assault suit.
As far as Gallente, 300 shield and 500 armor at 10hp/s doesn't sound impressive when you consider the fits I can create with new Amarr.
P.S
I don't run bircked Gal Assaults.
I have tried pretty much every fit you can imagine. (Unless it's ridiculous like cardiac regs)
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11046
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 21:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
I also don't think we want to encourage dual tanking.
What would you rather people do, create interesting fits with lots of different toys like kin cats, codebreakers, cardiac regs, etc', OR just stack plates, extenders and repairers?
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11046
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 22:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Boot Booter wrote:Moving Kincats to high would be interesting indeed but we may see some 800 armor amarrs running like minmatars. That sounds scary.
@cat Merc.
Man you're so pro gal assault and armor that you forget about the struggle which has always been minmatar. Your suit will be fine; maybe you'll have to get more creative with your fits. There's nothing which ever said gallente need to be just armor tanked. Given their slot layout they should be slightly dual tanked with a preference towards armor, much like the minmatar is towards shield.
I've messed with gk0 assault fits and can get 300 shield 500 armor at 10 hp/s and even threw in a Kincat for fun. Lmao, the Minmatar is the second best Assault suit. As far as Gallente, 300 shield and 500 armor at 10hp/s doesn't sound impressive when you consider the fits I can create with new Amarr. Maybe it is post 1.8 because of its bonus. It was easily one of the worst suits between 1.0 and 1.8. And yes it does sound impressive when you're sprinting 7.86 m/s and have better strafe than amarr. Just admit you are sad cause you love armor as much as you love cat nip and the Amarr are gonna be able to do it better.
7.86m/s?
Unless you dropped an armor plate, which would bring your armor down to 400, it doesn't happen.
Amarr are NOT suppsoed to armor tank "better", they're supposed to have a different kind of armor tank.
Amarr = Buffer
Gallente = Regenerative
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11046
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 22:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
If you're going to force me to dual tank, how about reducing my shield delays and increasing my recharge rate?
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11047
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 22:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
7.86m/s?
Unless you dropped an armor plate, which would bring your armor down to 400, it doesn't happen.
1 complex plate 1 complex ferro 1 complex rep 1 complex kincat Common man.
Ah, I thought you used Ferroscale only.
Anyway, how about 7.98m/s, 480 armor, and 20hp/s on Amarr?
Because that's what you're opening up with 5 low slots.
Or, how about 747 armor, 7.17m/s, and 20hp/s?
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11047
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 22:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ooops, sorry, proto fits screwed up.
It's 597 HP.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11047
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 22:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:I doubt their PG could support 2 kin cats and a SR without sacrificing a low for PG upgrade. I see your point though
The issue lies in the lack of low slots to augment armor tanking. Hmm..
That's one kin cat, not two.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11048
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 22:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Toby Flenderson wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Rattati, my mind is blowing up trying to figure out competitive Gal Assault configurations when Amarr Assault has 2/5 slots.
Nothing I can build is competitive, dual tank, armor tank, armor repair, whatever.
And I KNOW how to build armor suits, I have analyzed the ever living crap out of armor since Uprising 1.0 along with Arkena Wyrnspire to create the armor buff thread back before 1.4.
It's really a matter of make high slot utility modules useful, or Gallente Assault will be useless. I think we need to buff dmg mods a bit. Any way to further support rep tanking on gallente suits? It seems the Amarr will be able to do it better than gallente with the extra low slot. I'm asking because I can't think of something off of the top of my head other than increasing passive reps which I'm not sure I like
Eh, increasing passive rep might be good.
It's not like we could brick harder than Amarr using it, since they would have one more low slot.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11048
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 22:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Boots you dont play this game do you?
do you work for CCP by any chance?
this Gallente active tank, Amarr Armor tank.
If a good Gallente suit requires you only to dual tank then you have a severe issue and choice of judgment.
While I agree, don't be so harsh on him.
Being CCP is the worst insult imaginable in DUST 
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11048
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 22:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
Logi dropships were removed because they were simply used as tankier dropships.
Same for Logi LAV's.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11049
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 22:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:
Starting to make me wonder if Kin Cats should, in fact, be a high slot module....
speedy, brick-tanked "slayer" Scouts <--- we want fewer of these, and more assaults :: hands over Pandora's Box :: ^ You sure you wanna open that sh*t?
Well, it WOULD open up speedy Gallente Assaults f'ing over those silly Assault scouts :P
With Assaults getting HP between Commando and Logi (As rattati said), Assault scouts could very well become obsolete.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11051
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 22:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:I like the new slot layout, but there is one thing i fear, Dova... , no really, i don't want Cal assault to be a Min assault 2.0. While a 2/5 slot layout is perfect for armor tankers i can't say the same for a 5/2 layout for shield tankers, high slot modules requires a lot of PG/CPU and an assault can't withstand that layout, on the other hand if you give to cal too much resources they would be imbalanced with other assaults, i would prefer to have a 4/3 slot layout on both min and cal.
You'll have to wait and see for the CPU/PG numbers.
Assaults are getting that buffed ya know.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11051
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 22:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Boots you dont play this game do you?
do you work for CCP by any chance?
this Gallente active tank, Amarr Armor tank.
If a good Gallente suit requires you only to dual tank then you have a severe issue and choice of judgment. While I agree, don't be so harsh on him. Being CCP is the worst insult imaginable in DUST Haha I'm sure I play this game just as much if not more than you. 37 mil sp from open beta. Fact is dual tanking is part of this game. I learned this the hard way in the min assault. Why do you think pro cal assaults with 400 plus armor? You armor tankers lived through a golden age of armor tanking ever since the buff way back and this made you believe that a pure tank was possible. Meanwhile shield tanking has been a real struggle; dual tanking became a necessity. Like I said though the issue isn't the slot layout, the ones Rattati proposed make sense based on lore. The problem arises from not having a high slot module which contributes to armor tanking. Shield tankers have regulators in the lows. So what do you do? Dual tank to survive.
I'll have you know that I owned a prototype version of every assault before the suit command respec, and Caldari and Minmatar Assaults were great, without any dual tank.
You people just try and play like an armor tanker, and being surprised when it doesn't work.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11052
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 22:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Correct me about what? All I'm saying is armor tankers need a high slot module. Secondly armor has been much better than shields (recent shield buff is pretty balanced though). Both are facts.
Yep I remember the Golden age of shield tanking too.
Wouldn't say much better, just that shields had some small issues that were addressed.
They weren't huge and game changing like the armor buffs.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11052
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 23:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Boot Booter wrote:Correct me about what? All I'm saying is armor tankers need a high slot module. Secondly armor has been much better than shields (recent shield buff is pretty balanced though). Both are facts.
Yep I remember the Golden age of shield tanking too. if you really from Open beta you'd be here long enough to know that at the least shield tanking and armor tanking have had equal OP eras to each other. In actuality, my experience from Mordu's private trials (closed beta) to now allow me to honestly say Shields have had a much, much longer time in the spotlight than armor has.
To be fair there weren't any real armor tanking suits...
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11056
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 00:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hey Rattati, any comment on my concern?
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11057
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Posted - 2014.07.17 00:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:not being able to outfit a 2-5 am ass?
show me/us the math, how is it radically much better/worse than a 3/4 ga ass?
Amarr:
148.5 * 2 + 300 = 597 HP (Amarr HP + Two Complex plates)
9.375 * 2 = 18.75 HP/s
6.368 * 1.126 = 7.17m/s (Complex kin cat)
Gallente:
82.5 * 2 + 262 = 427 HP (Two Complex ferroscales, to keep the same speed)
9.375 * 2 + 3 = 21.75 HP/s
You can try giving Gallente a kin cat, but that drops their repair rate to half of that of Amarr.
You can try to fit heavier plates, but that drops their speed to below Amarr.
Anyway you slice it, Amarr can do it better.
Heck if they don't care about speed, they can get 700+ armor easily.
Or they can get 30hp/s with that 597 armor.
As far as high slots, do you really expect me to fit shield extenders (dual tanking) to have a competitive suit?
Really?
And if the Amarrian fits extenders too, he still does it better, as a third extender doesn't cover up the HP difference.
Precision enhancers are pointless for Assaults.
Myofibril Stims are lol
Damage mods are lol and wouldn't make enough of a difference with stacking penalties.
So basically, how it should be:
Amarr = Buffer
Gallente = Repair
How it actually is:
Amarr = Best Armor tank
Gallente = Dual tank
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11059
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 00:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Oh and I didn't mention the inherent stamina advantage Amarr have.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11061
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 01:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Oh and I didn't mention the inherent stamina advantage Amarr have. Strafe speed difference would be huge (15%?) in your amarr vs gal comparison.
Alright then, two ferroscales and a kin cat.
Hugely faster than a Gallente Assault, higher HP, at a small speed reduction. (5%?)
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11063
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Posted - 2014.07.17 01:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:The problem lies in the misunderstanding that while Amarr usually have the most low slots, in Dust this has never been the case.
Gallente is always the most low slots
Amarr is always even number of slots with a preference towards lows
Gal Assault should be 2/5 and Keep the Amarr one at 3/4
Cat Merc, is this a bad idea? While yes there will still be those that choose to armor tank the Gallente Assault, I feel that it will work better to allow players that want to armor repair tank, but don't want to use a Gal Logi to do so.
Either that, or we go with the crazy idea of giving the Gallente a big bonus to armor repairers and change up the rest of the assaults to focus on survivability and regen rather than their weapons.
Rattati, we already have the Gallente scout with 2/4 and the Gallente heavy with 1/4 and the Gallente logi with 3/5...having the Gallente assault at 3/4 doesn't fit with that and has encouraged dual tanking the Gal assault. Amarr Logi is currently 3/4, Amarr sentinel is 2/3...Amarr Assault should stay 3/4 to make it fit.
__________________________________________________
Everyone needs to agree with how we want each racial style to be like
That should be figured out FIRST before we start proposing changes...okay?
I rather not.
Amarr SHOULD have a higher low slot count, I just think that changes have to be made around that.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11069
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 02:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
bogeyman m wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Hi all, We want to have this formal discussion and get your input. We believe that the community has wanted to have some say on this issue for some time, and now that I am studying this data in detail, some things brush me the wrong way (or my OCD). Dropsuit Slot LayoutFirst table is Current, next table is proposed, and third tracks the difference in slots between the two. We don't need to do any changes to these layouts right now. However, with PG/CPU increases for the Assault class on the horizon, more based on a PG/CPU allotment per slot type, it would be the right timing to swap a high with a low in strategic places, or add missing slots. The new premise is a single matrix of racial high/low arrangements and then tactical choices of the other slots (EQ, SA, W, G). The proposed matrix is also intended to be more thematically in line with EVE Online racial slots. Amarr highest number of low slots Caldari highest number of high slots Gallente equal number of highs and lows, preferring lows Minmatar equal number of highs and lows, preferring highs Moving forward with few changes without changing the whole layout of every dropsuit is certainly on the table as well. The logi sidearm f.ex. There are other "anomalies" that I would love to discuss, such as STD and ADV logi racial differences. Of course if you see some errors, please let us know. Have at it and keep it civil and constructive! Shouldn't the Caldari and the Gallente have opposite slot configuration? And shouldn't the Amarr and Minmatar be opposites also?
No?
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11069
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 02:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
No comment Rattati?
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11070
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 02:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Cat Merc.
I agree with you, without dual tanking like a scrub (me) the Amarr will be better than the Gal (especially considering the weapon bonus stuff).
So would you agree with keep the slot layout Rattati suggested but with a buff to the Gal assault base armor regen?
If so what would be acceptable number 5 hp/s, 7hp/s?
9hp/s and it's a deal :P
But seriously though, the core of the issue comes from a complete lack of decent high slot modules.
There is no real advantage to having that extra slot.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11072
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 02:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Boot Booter wrote:Cat Merc.
I agree with you, without dual tanking like a scrub (me) the Amarr will be better than the Gal (especially considering the weapon bonus stuff).
So would you agree with keep the slot layout Rattati suggested but with a buff to the Gal assault base armor regen?
If so what would be acceptable number 5 hp/s, 7hp/s? 9hp/s and it's a deal :P But seriously though, the core of the issue comes from a complete lack of decent high slot modules. There is no real advantage to having that extra slot. 5hps for freesies? Really?
Look at the math I've given before.
You tell me if you would run a Gal Assault otherwise.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11072
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 02:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:True Adamance wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Boot Booter wrote:Cat Merc.
I agree with you, without dual tanking like a scrub (me) the Amarr will be better than the Gal (especially considering the weapon bonus stuff).
So would you agree with keep the slot layout Rattati suggested but with a buff to the Gal assault base armor regen?
If so what would be acceptable number 5 hp/s, 7hp/s? 9hp/s and it's a deal :P But seriously though, the core of the issue comes from a complete lack of decent high slot modules. There is no real advantage to having that extra slot. 5hps for freesies? Really? Yeah, IDK Cat, people complained all day long about the "OP" 5hp/s that logi's used to get and allegedly fueled the Gal slayer-logi meta (not saying I agree with that, just saying it was a hot topic). Obviously the 9hp/s is unreasonable, but a "free" enhanced armor rep (aka old complex) that doesn't cost you any CPU/PG is not worth a low slot? On a faster suit? You're asking for an awful lot, then. I'd like to see the Amarr assault fitting that is so amazing that a Gal assault with an inherent 5 (even 3) armor rep is useless in comparison.
I consider that hp/s as the nuclear option.
However:
The situation is completely different.
Gal Logis had 3/5 slots in addition to having 5hp/s and to top it all off they had 4 equipment.
All of these combined made assaults useless.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11072
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 03:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:\
Yes, the totality of the assault/logi imbalance is indeed a different topic. We may be talking about just the assault suits, but why is 5hp/s unbalanced on any suit, regardless of the other factors, but a waste of time here? Taking your earlier example, the Amarr would get ~150 more HP, but the Gal would get 9 more regen. Is that not a decent tradeoff? It's basically like a complex plate in exchange for a complex rep. That's nothing to sniff at, and sounds an awful lot like buffer vs regen.
Maybe.
It just doesn't feel right, I can't explain it.
It feels like the lazy option that would make a mess out of everything.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11077
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 04:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Cat Merc wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:\
Yes, the totality of the assault/logi imbalance is indeed a different topic. We may be talking about just the assault suits, but why is 5hp/s unbalanced on any suit, regardless of the other factors, but a waste of time here? Taking your earlier example, the Amarr would get ~150 more HP, but the Gal would get 9 more regen. Is that not a decent tradeoff? It's basically like a complex plate in exchange for a complex rep. That's nothing to sniff at, and sounds an awful lot like buffer vs regen. Maybe. It just doesn't feel right, I can't explain it. It feels like the lazy option that would make a mess out of everything. You win this round, Cat. I can't form a counter argument against a nebulous uneasiness....
I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying something about it doesn't feel right.
I am not objecting to it, just stating how it feels to me.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11089
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 18:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
Markus Karr wrote:Rattati,
I understand that we want to keep the game balanced, but the changes to the logis don't make sense from a lore and faction standpoint. If you take the sidearm away from the Amarr Logi, does it not go against what the faction stands for? They are the strongest military faction according to the lore, which is why it makes sense that all the suits, including the logi, are armed to the teeth.
Pretty sure the Amarr have the most territory and the largest empire, not that they're the strongest.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11091
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 21:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
Markus Karr wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Markus Karr wrote:Rattati,
I understand that we want to keep the game balanced, but the changes to the logis don't make sense from a lore and faction standpoint. If you take the sidearm away from the Amarr Logi, does it not go against what the faction stands for? They are the strongest military faction according to the lore, which is why it makes sense that all the suits, including the logi, are armed to the teeth.
Pretty sure the Amarr have the most territory and the largest empire, not that they're the strongest. This is taken from the website, under the factions tab. "The Amarr Empress rules the largest and oldest of the four empires, a vast theocracy supported by Minmatar slave labor. Amarrian citizens tend to be highly educated and fervently believe that slavery is but one step on a spiritual path toward fully embracing faith. Despite several recent setbacks, the Amarr Empire is the most stable nation and most powerful military in New Eden. Allied to the Caldari State, they wish to reclaim the Minmatar Republic." According to this, they would be considered the most powerful military faction.
The EVE Intro said that Caldari are the strongest military wise.
It's really just fluff, ignore it.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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|
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11092
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 22:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
B145PH3M3R wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Markus Karr wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Markus Karr wrote:Rattati,
I understand that we want to keep the game balanced, but the changes to the logis don't make sense from a lore and faction standpoint. If you take the sidearm away from the Amarr Logi, does it not go against what the faction stands for? They are the strongest military faction according to the lore, which is why it makes sense that all the suits, including the logi, are armed to the teeth.
Pretty sure the Amarr have the most territory and the largest empire, not that they're the strongest. This is taken from the website, under the factions tab. "The Amarr Empress rules the largest and oldest of the four empires, a vast theocracy supported by Minmatar slave labor. Amarrian citizens tend to be highly educated and fervently believe that slavery is but one step on a spiritual path toward fully embracing faith. Despite several recent setbacks, the Amarr Empire is the most stable nation and most powerful military in New Eden. Allied to the Caldari State, they wish to reclaim the Minmatar Republic." According to this, they would be considered the most powerful military faction. The EVE Intro said that Caldari are the strongest military wise. It's really just fluff, ignore it. Caldari has the LARGEST navy. Amarr has always been technologically, and socially, the strongest.
lmao no.
Caldari have the smaller Navy.
Gallente and Amarr are the two sleeping giants, while Caldari and Minmatar are small but very active.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11092
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 01:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:PG upgrades to high slot
Kincats to high slot
Damage mod 4/6/8
Damage mod stacking penalty greatly reduced
^Adds utility to high slots and allows stacking of damage mods to mean something. Helps to reduce the Amarr assault's eHP advantage while opening up the high-slots to more than shield tanking.
Edit: Also, make Myofibs add rang to your melee attacks, 2 PRO's giving you equal range to that of a Nova Knife. For the love of god don't do any of this. Shield based suits suck already don't nerf their ability to use kinkats or pg units without sacrificing their already sad survivability. How happy would you be to have damage mods moved to lows?
Shield suits have sad survivability?
lawl, I am doing just fine with 427 armor and 200 shields, you might be expecting too much 
And the most popular weapons right now are anti armor.
So, no, your survivability isn't far off from armor if at all any different, just play to your strenghts.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11093
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 02:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:PG upgrades to high slot
Kincats to high slot
Damage mod 4/6/8
Damage mod stacking penalty greatly reduced
^Adds utility to high slots and allows stacking of damage mods to mean something. Helps to reduce the Amarr assault's eHP advantage while opening up the high-slots to more than shield tanking.
Edit: Also, make Myofibs add rang to your melee attacks, 2 PRO's giving you equal range to that of a Nova Knife. For the love of god don't do any of this. Shield based suits suck already don't nerf their ability to use kinkats or pg units without sacrificing their already sad survivability. How happy would you be to have damage mods moved to lows? Shield suits have sad survivability? lawl, I am doing just fine with 427 armor and 200 shields, you might be expecting too much And the most popular weapons right now are anti armor. So, no, your survivability isn't far off from armor if at all any different, just play to your strenghts. Ummmm yeah armor is great with a nice shield buffer, a logi repping you, triage hives healing you, damage mods helping you out damage shield tanks with no sacrifice to your natural armor tank, Flux grenades having no effect other than causing you to drop more repping hives, no delay for your reps, and the insane wps farmed for your squad from said armor reps.. yes cat merc tell us more about how armor based suits and shield based suits are on par.. you are once again only worried about staying OP. Stay out of this unless you are being constructive or I will release the hounds on you.
* Logi reps outside of squads are rare
* I don't have enough CPU/PG for triage hives (CPU upgrade would come in handy here  )
* Damage mods have been nerfed to hell, and it's not like I can fit them anyway
* Flux grenades are much rarer than Locus Grenades, and when a Locus Grenade comes, I don't lose my armor. I die.
* I may not have delay for reps, but it's still 1/3rd of the speed of the free repair rate on Caldari Assaults
Basically, the advantages armor has can only come when fighting in classic battles where there's a frontline.
Skirmish fighters (like myself) can't benefit of Logi tools, Repair hives or anything of the sort.
Try fitting a kin cat instead of trying to brick, see what happens then
Oh and about your "staying OP" comment, I've been running armor since Uprising 1.0.
And I KNEW, on day 1, that armor is underpowered.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11093
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 02:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
Actually, that's not true.
I've been putting armor plates on my Assault since Chromosome.
That's right, I've been armor tanking my Caldari Assault in Chromosome, because Gallente.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11095
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 04:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Yes exactly armor tanking is more effective than shield tanking right now, which is why everyone stacks armor. It's more effective than stacking shields. You rep at 1/3 rd a Cal assault's rep immediately to effectively by the time he starts repping shields you are far ahead of him in the rep department so I would imagine that is when you push.. because now your shields are soon to come up while he is still waiting for some regen ( because time to kill is so ooooo long right cat merc? ) boom you win due to out repping his shields before his delay is over.
Why don't you ask for more plate buffs? Oh wait you have in several the threads, even though EVERY ONE armor tanks because shields alone are not viable.
Shields are in a bad place right now and again all you are concerned with is YOU ARMOR BUILD DOING WELL VS SHIELDS.
Don't be a scaredy cat, puss puss, I know you are terrified of what would happen without your armor crutch but let's push for some balance rather than exclaim how you armor based 627 hp suit is doing well
Of course it is its armor based. Way to rely on your suit to do the work for you.
keep fighting the good fight for imbalance cat merc.
Well, let's see...
If I rep at 1/3rd the rate of a Caldari Assault, that means that by the time he gets his first recharge cycle out, I repaired around 20HP more than him.
The next cycle he repaired 10HP more.
Then next 30HP more.
So umm, yeah, only two ticks before you surpass my regen.
Now, when did I ask for plate buffs?
Back before 1.4? When armor sucked ballz and EVERYONE was using shield based suits?
Unless you mean reactive and ferroscale plates, which no armor tanker used.
627 armor? Try 427, the same amount of armor as most Caldari suits have shields
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11095
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 04:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
Oh and apparently running Assault suits, ya know, the suits that are considered the most underpowered, when I have access to proto scouts and heavies, means I look for crutches?
Hah
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11095
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 04:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
Armor Rep = 10HP/s
Caldari Recharge = 30hp/s, 5 seconds delay
1st second:
Armor 10HP
Shield 0HP
2nd Second:
Armor 20HP
Shield 0HP
.......
5th Second:
Armor 50HP
Shield 0HP
6th Second:
Armor 60HP
Shield 30HP
7th Second:
Armor 70HP
Shield 60HP
8th Second:
Armor 80HP
Shield 90HP
9th Second:
Armor 90HP
Shield 120HP
10th Second:
Armor 100HP
Shield 150HP
Armor Repair: 11PG, 45CPU
Shield Recharge: Free
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11095
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 04:52:00 -
[48] - Quote
As a sidenote: Calm the fuck down please 
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11095
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 04:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Yes Sgt kirk no defence by itself is viable that is not the issue.
at this point which would be more viable:
A shield suit with 300 shield and 100 armor with a 5 second recharge delay that reps at 100 shield per second
or
An armor suit with 100 shield and 300 armor with zero delay repping at 40 armor immediately per second.
If both players are equally skilled the advantage goes to the armor reps as he ( at almost 1/3 the reps ) has 200 more hp before the shields rep once.
while both are viable.. which is more viable?
Except 40hp/s would put your HP at... base armor... 250....
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11095
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 04:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Armor Rep = 10HP/s
Caldari Recharge = 30hp/s, 5 seconds delay
1st second:
Armor 10HP
Shield 0HP
2nd Second:
Armor 20HP
Shield 0HP
.......
5th Second:
Armor 50HP
Shield 0HP
6th Second:
Armor 60HP
Shield 30HP
7th Second:
Armor 70HP
Shield 60HP
8th Second:
Armor 80HP
Shield 90HP
9th Second:
Armor 90HP
Shield 120HP
10th Second:
Armor 100HP
Shield 150HP
Armor Repair: 11PG, 45CPU
Shield Recharge: Free so cat merc with 2 complex reps make your ingenious table again
Sure, then add an Energizer.
3 shield extenders + energizer puts you at my HP level
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
|
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11095
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 05:03:00 -
[51] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:
yes same starting hp which you will outrep, even without logis and rep hives, enough to push the shield assault with an advantage
Armor Repair: 18hp/s
Shield Recharge: 50hp/s, 5 seconds delay
1st Second:
Armor: 18HP
Shields: 0HP
2nd Second:
Armor: 36HP
Shields: 0HP
3rd Second:
Armor: 54HP
Shields: 0HP
....
5th Second:
Armor: 90HP
Shields: 0HP
6th Second:
Armor: 108HP
Shields: 50HP
7th Second:
Armor: 126HP
Shields: 100HP
8th Second:
Armor: 144HP
Shields: 150HP
9th Second:
Armor: 162HP
Shields: 200HP
10th Second:
Armor: 180HP
Shields: 250HP
Armor: 90CPU, 22PG
Shields: 96CPU
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11095
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 05:04:00 -
[52] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Now cat merc pretend you have a logi bro with a rep tool and rep hives and the caldari opponent has a logibro with a repair tool and rep hives. Does the armor player still have the advantage?
2 people vs 1 person
That rep guy is wasting his time, as he would be better off just shooting that guy, dealing double the DPS together.
The rep is only really used after the battle, or when dealing with a heavy, which is a completely different beast.
Also, rep hives are very fragile after the nerf, you should see how quickly they disappear when I do bring a Logi with me.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11095
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 05:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Now cat merc pretend you have a logi bro with a rep tool and rep hives and the caldari opponent has a logibro with a repair tool and rep hives. Does the armor player still have the advantage? 2 people vs 1 person That rep guy is wasting his time, as he would be better off just shooting that guy, dealing double the DPS together. The rep is only really used after the battle, or when dealing with a heavy, which is a completely different beast. So your logibro wouldn'tdrop a rep hive for you before the eengagement? That's odd since it would be so useful. Especially if all 4 players are equally skilled and have equal dps output. are you sure this is how you want to portray you understanding of dust mechanics? As all 4 players have equal skill, let's say you forgot to have a rep hive placed, now all 4 take cover equally close to death, will the caldari suit benefit from his logi Bros reps as much as you?
That's assuming you engage in standard two sides combat.
I literally never do that, I am hyper aggressive always pushing forward.
Rep hives never have a chance to rep me.
Anyway, I do agree that shields need Logi tools of their own, but when it comes to the suits by themselves, Armor vs Shields is more balanced than it has ever been. Ever.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11095
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 05:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Back peddling, and no, armor is far ahead of shields at this moment in time. If youwish we can agree to disagree and you may take your leave and let our discussion speak for itself.
I would be more than happy to do that.
But if you are more interested in explaining how shields and armor are balanced now because YOU don't use logis, or rep hives, or rep tools, or damage mods, or more than one armor repairer, or fully stack you lows with plates, and still manage to do well verses shield suits of equal skill, well then carry on......
I will stay up all night and fight for shields to be balanced while you for some reason believe that GOING ON AND ON ABOUT YOUR EFFECTIVENESS while not utilizing your suit to its full potential in a squad based game , is painting a picture of shield and armor parity.
As per cat merc, his armor based suit does not require the myriad of beneficial tools available to benefit armor in order to be on par with a shield suit user that is desperately using every resource available. And this is balance according to cat merc.
Except I explained to you very clearly why these tools aren't available a lot of times.
Rep tools < Guns
So in the middle of a fight, nobody will you repair you unless you're a heavy
Rep Hives - They force me to stay stationary, which means that people can very easily chuck a grenade my way
Damage mods - Where is the CPU/PG to fit it? I don't have CPU/PG mods in high slots
Stacking Plates - So I would be slow (making myself an easy target) and have no rep? Seems legit.
More than one armor repairer - Actually I do run that, I just like to spice things up by replacing one with a kin cat
Back pedaling:
Huh?
It was my stance for ages now that shields need their own logi tools.
You're just looking for any way to attack me aren't you?
On a final note: Before the suit command respec, I had every Assault suit to prototype.
I did just as well in my shield suits as I did with my armor suits.
And not a single armor plate was used.
And that was before the shield buff.
So yes, let's agree to disagree.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11096
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 06:09:00 -
[55] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Excellent agree to disagree
I rep any suit with armor as a logi, a force multiplyer, especially an armor tanked gal assault, with a triage hive HE WILL NOT DIE. So i guess you were wrong there.. but hey, agree to disagree.
( by the way rep tools go in the equipment slot and as a logi I carry a gun for pew pew )
you would be amazed by the effectiveness of triage hives on an armor suit! You simply must try it some time vs shield tankers, unless you find it unnecessary due to the current state of shield vs armor. That I can understand cat merc.
stack a complex ferro scale,or a complex reactive with anything. . THANK YOU DIMINISHING RETURNS!!!! Oh I'm guessing you don't do this as you find it unnecessary due to the current state of shield vs armor. That I can understand.
More than one armor repairer? Well I guess we agree there, sure is nice isn't it? That I can understand.
I am not attacking you, I am shining a light on the flaws of your implied logic. Shields are not in a good place right now. I don't think you are insulting me be stating otherwise, but you have not brought up any valid points to defend your opinion other than to state that even by denying yourself many of the benefits to tanking armor, you can still run a viable fit vs a shield tanked suit using every benefit available to shields. THAT is what boggles my mind when you follow up such statements with " shields and armor are very balanced ".
Good thing you chose to proto your armor assault after the suit respect eh? I can understand that.
agree to disagree
*Cough* Ignoring my explanations to every single point you made here *Cough*
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11098
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 06:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Excellent agree to disagree
I rep any suit with armor as a logi, a force multiplyer, especially an armor tanked gal assault, with a triage hive HE WILL NOT DIE. So i guess you were wrong there.. but hey, agree to disagree.
( by the way rep tools go in the equipment slot and as a logi I carry a gun for pew pew )
you would be amazed by the effectiveness of triage hives on an armor suit! You simply must try it some time vs shield tankers, unless you find it unnecessary due to the current state of shield vs armor. That I can understand cat merc.
stack a complex ferro scale,or a complex reactive with anything. . THANK YOU DIMINISHING RETURNS!!!! Oh I'm guessing you don't do this as you find it unnecessary due to the current state of shield vs armor. That I can understand.
More than one armor repairer? Well I guess we agree there, sure is nice isn't it? That I can understand.
I am not attacking you, I am shining a light on the flaws of your implied logic. Shields are not in a good place right now. I don't think you are insulting me be stating otherwise, but you have not brought up any valid points to defend your opinion other than to state that even by denying yourself many of the benefits to tanking armor, you can still run a viable fit vs a shield tanked suit using every benefit available to shields. THAT is what boggles my mind when you follow up such statements with " shields and armor are very balanced ".
Good thing you chose to proto your armor assault after the suit respect eh? I can understand that.
agree to disagree *Cough* Ignoring my explanations to every single point you made here *Cough* *ahem* No valid explanations to the discussion were given. You basically restated that you don't require any of the added benefits to an armor based suit as you can hang with elite caldari assaulters without using triage hives, a repping logi, damage mods or anything other than the fact that armor constantlyreps you for 20 ticks per second, without interruption, for 5 seconds while that caldari waits for 5 seconds for you to jump around a corner and shoot him. You are confusing your explanation with being a proof of shield and armor balance. That's what the discussion is about. But if you feel you must, please again explain how shields and armor are balanced because you don't use triage hives. anything else? *ahem*
That's only true in your mind bud.
Now excuse me while I go stomp in my Minmatar Assault.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11101
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 07:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote:no sense in even posting with Doc DDD and Cat Merc drowning out everything we say
help! *gurgle* I can't swim in this giant storm of QQ!
QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
There, I got it all out
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11107
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 18:02:00 -
[58] - Quote
Killer's Coys wrote:CommanderBolt wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Good luck, go easy on the new disorganized players, but watch out for the gal assault, they have more advantages.
Now that he has run off :
I like the idea of the Cal assault having properties similar to both the Cal heavy and scout. Ie the one second depleted delay and upwards of 50hps. I believe this will allow the slot layouts of the proposed Cal assault suit to tank shields more effectively, but there really needs to be something that makes up for the disparity created with triage hives and repair tools. Definitely the removal of all negative effects on stacking extenders and using energizers could go along way. With only two low slots though, ouch, out of shield looks pretty rough with the way things are now.
Yea shields really do need loving. They can never be equal to Armour while armour has rep tools, triage hives, 100% needles etc.... (Why no shield rep tool? Why no shield repair hive? Why no 100% shield regeneration nanite injector? WHY CCP!?) Because (I think) all caldari must know playing "alone" But, if CCP wants that, why 30hp/s shield regen ? need more and more ! And need more CPU pleeeeeeaaaaseeeeee 10% isn't enought
*Laughs silently*
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11108
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 19:38:00 -
[59] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:If Logi and Assault have the same fitting capacity, base hp (not speed), and slot layout, then with correctly tuned fitting capacity and a buff to 15% fitting reduction on equipment and weapons for each class there should be no question which does which.
The Assault gets to easily fit a proto weapon while struggling to fit proto equipment and proto modules and the logi easily fits proto equipment while struggling to fit proto weapon and proto modules.
To finally reinforce this, the assault and logis both need compelling equipment and weapon bonuses to give them advantages that the other cannot receive through fitting modules alone.
If you gimp logi base stats AND gimp their slot layout... then they just become too weak to matter and will constantly get chewed up by every other class.
Ummm... No.
Even with current CPU/PG fitting prototype weapons is laughably easy.
What you will do is basically make Assault obsolete.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11108
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 21:39:00 -
[60] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:caldari assaults need reductions to the cost of everything shield related if they are losing a low slot and cpu/pg levels are not increased even more than these new numbers.
having an armor stacked gal assault STARTING TO REP HIS SHIELDS close to when shield stacked assaults ( who specialize in shields ) start to rep thiers AFTER THE ARMOR SUIT GETS IMMEDIATE ARMOR REPS FOR 5 SECONDS..
maybe start by removing the free shield recharge on the gal suits. let thier shields stay down unless they equip a recharger..
what do you think cat merc? don't like balance?
By the time my shields start charging you have regained 300 shields.
QQ harder.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
|
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11108
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 21:41:00 -
[61] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Cat Merc wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:If Logi and Assault have the same fitting capacity, base hp (not speed), and slot layout, then with correctly tuned fitting capacity and a buff to 15% fitting reduction on equipment and weapons for each class there should be no question which does which.
The Assault gets to easily fit a proto weapon while struggling to fit proto equipment and proto modules and the logi easily fits proto equipment while struggling to fit proto weapon and proto modules.
To finally reinforce this, the assault and logis both need compelling equipment and weapon bonuses to give them advantages that the other cannot receive through fitting modules alone.
If you gimp logi base stats AND gimp their slot layout... then they just become too weak to matter and will constantly get chewed up by every other class. Ummm... No. Even with current CPU/PG fitting prototype weapons is laughably easy. What you will do is basically make Assault obsolete. you just said you couldnt fit damage mods because your cpu pg was too low... which is it cat merc? still pushinig for op armor? try for balance cat merc
A prototype weapon is more important than damage mods.
I could bring down my Duvolle to a GEK and then upgrade my damage mods to complex, but then what's the point?
It's the same net effect, only I don't gain the accuracy that a Duvolle does.
Oh and BTW, since you obviously don't know it, NOBODY WITH LIGHT WEAPONS FITS DAMAGE MODS ANYMORE.
It's pointless, an enhanced shield extender is better than prototype damage mod.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.18 21:43:00 -
[62] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Cat Merc wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:If Logi and Assault have the same fitting capacity, base hp (not speed), and slot layout, then with correctly tuned fitting capacity and a buff to 15% fitting reduction on equipment and weapons for each class there should be no question which does which.
The Assault gets to easily fit a proto weapon while struggling to fit proto equipment and proto modules and the logi easily fits proto equipment while struggling to fit proto weapon and proto modules.
To finally reinforce this, the assault and logis both need compelling equipment and weapon bonuses to give them advantages that the other cannot receive through fitting modules alone.
If you gimp logi base stats AND gimp their slot layout... then they just become too weak to matter and will constantly get chewed up by every other class. Ummm... No. Even with current CPU/PG fitting prototype weapons is laughably easy. What you will do is basically make Assault obsolete. With the CR and its tiny fitting requirements, I might agree with you. Otherwise, you cannot fit proto everything on a logi suit without CPU and PG mods. Not that i've ever been able to do at least using Cal Logi pre fitting reduction or Amarr Logi post fitting reduction. I imagine it only gets more difficult with a 4th piece of proto equipment. How does this make assaults obsolete? With compelling weapon bonuses AND what is essentially a straight buff. Then you give assaults increased base regeneration and you're in a good spot. If you think this is wrong i'd welcome a better explanation than "um... no"
The ability to upgrade from a GEK to a Duvolle and slightly higher regeneration is absolutely not worth losing the 4 equipment that logis have.
It's not fair trade.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.18 22:26:00 -
[63] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Cat Merc wrote:The ability to upgrade from a GEK to a Duvolle and slightly higher regeneration is absolutely not worth losing the 4 equipment that logis have.
It's not fair trade. to you maybe: You are giving up a sidearm, increased regen, increased move (and strafe speed) and weapon bonuses. That is fairly substantial. However, my comment was referring more to how a balanced slot and hp layout could make it work. I also did include that compelling weapon oriented bonuses need to be added to the assault suits, as the Gal/Cal ones are crap atm. Maybe rolled into that would be something else like the RoF increase many have proposed or something along those lines. You've never seemed like an assault player though. You've always undervalued move speed and sidearms.
Ah, I thought you meant everything the same (including sidearms and move speed) and just have different equipment counts and fitting bonuses.
Sorry about that, didn't understand you correctly.
Also, don't question me being an Assault player.
I give up half my regen to get an extra m/s so I can charge up to the enemy and destroy them in CQC.
In addition, a sidearm is much more handy now-a-days since TTK was nerfed to all hell.
Back in the Assault Logi times things died so quickly a sidearm was not really necessary.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.18 22:29:00 -
[64] - Quote
Repair Tools:
Prototype repair tools repair 1/4th of what a militia Assault Rifle can dish out.
With none heavies, it's better to just bring out your own weapon and start dealing double the damage together, which is a far more effective way of mitigating damage.
With heavies, their HMG packs so much DPS, and they have so much HP, that it's better to keep them alive than shoot your own gun.
Their high HP allows them to survive for more rep cycles, allowing you to repair far more HP before they die than you would with smaller frames.
As such, anything smaller than a heavy is usually ignored in competitive play when in direct combat, and only used to repair the target after the fact, or when suppressed behind heavy cover.
It also requires 2 people to do, so a 2v1 comparison is invalid.
Repair Nanohives:
While certainly effective, they have key weaknesses that any good player can exploit to their advantage.
Their HP is quite low, so the use of explosives like Mass Drivers or spread weapons like HMG's clean them up very easily.
Funnily enough, both of those are anti armor weapons, so the effect is that much more when dealing with tanked targets.
They are stationary, hence they are defensive tools only. That means players using them can't flank or do some other similar maneuvers, while the attackers can basically pick and choose when to attack when it's most convinient.
Their radius of effect is as large as a grenade. Considering grenades are extremely deadly against armored targets, I think you can see what the effects of that would be
They are amazing in pub matches, but against people who know what they're doing (Stomper squads, PC matches, etc'), their effect is barely noticeable.
Injectors:
Shields start regenerating instantly after an injection, and considering the speed at which they do it, I don't think it's a big deal.
There, hopefully I made my points as fool proof as possible.
And just as a reminder, I am in support of shield Logi tools because it would give Logis more use on the battlefield.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.18 23:26:00 -
[65] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Injectors:
Shields start regenerating instantly after an injection, and considering the speed at which they do it, I don't think it's a big deal. Comments like this make me a little worried. Have you ever played in PC Cat Merc? Injectors are generally useless in PC unless you are bringing up a heavy, but for shield based suits? It's laughable how useless injectors are... How you can even consider that reviving with 80% or 100% armor vs 0% shields is balanced concerns me...
TBH injectors are rare for everything under heavy, shield or not.
I don't remember the last time I saw someone get revived.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.18 23:31:00 -
[66] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Z dub, cat merc is part of the problem with the community having a strong voice on the forums.
Make enough posts about needing armor buffs and maybe just maybe his kdr will go up when his suit becomes more OP. he does not understand balance and believes that because he can shoot some newberries in a shield suit that everyrhing is balanced, when deep down, I think even he knows that armor has huge advantages over shields right now.
It's the deception that I hope Ratattati can see through.
Go ahead, look at my posts history.
When did I ask to buff armor?
Click on search and insert my name into the character field.
I fully understand balance, and what I see in PC is equal use of shield and armor suits (From videos uploaded).
PC is usually where the most try hardy fits shine (Old Cal Logis with TAR's as an example from a while ago)
If in PC people use both equally, especially now when everyone is specced into multiple suits, I think balance is achieved/very close to be achieved.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.18 23:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Cat Merc wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Injectors:
Shields start regenerating instantly after an injection, and considering the speed at which they do it, I don't think it's a big deal. Comments like this make me a little worried. Have you ever played in PC Cat Merc? Injectors are generally useless in PC unless you are bringing up a heavy, but for shield based suits? It's laughable how useless injectors are... How you can even consider that reviving with 80% or 100% armor vs 0% shields is balanced concerns me... TBH injectors are rare for everything under heavy, shield or not. I don't remember the last time I saw someone get revived. Not true i run injectors all the time, they only benefit armor suits as most people stacking shields would rather re spawnwith full shields. UNLESS OF COURSE THEY ARE STACK ING ARMOR PLATES.
The only time that would matter is when revived under fire.
Reviving under fire usually ends up with me getting a free kill from the few times I saw someone revive.
Yes even against a proto Gal Heavy stacked with plates.
It's simply an easy kill.
A Caldari Assault would have to wait around 5-6 seconds while the Gallente Assault can charge in.
However, most don't, since those Gallente too don't get their shields back, and since the recharge rate is slower, the amount of time to get back into battle with full HP is a few seconds higher. (Not by much)
Honestly, even if injectors restored shields, I still don't think injectors would be quite as common as they were in Chromo.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.18 23:37:00 -
[68] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Z dub, cat merc is part of the problem with the community having a strong voice on the forums.
Make enough posts about needing armor buffs and maybe just maybe his kdr will go up when his suit becomes more OP. he does not understand balance and believes that because he can shoot some newberries in a shield suit that everyrhing is balanced, when deep down, I think even he knows that armor has huge advantages over shields right now.
It's the deception that I hope Ratattati can see through. The squeeky wheel always gets the grease right? I'll admit that armor needed some help in those early days though... I remember feeling relieved every time I saw a heavy or an armored based medium frame back then cause you knew it was gonna be an easy fight. Nowadays though I can't imagine playing a shield suit... Shield suits do need some love. Tools for better group play would be really helpful (Remote Shield Booster and some Injector love for starters...). As well as a bigger focus on shield recharge delays with the removal of the extender penalty being a good place to start as well. Cat Merc wrote:TBH injectors are rare for everything under heavy, shield or not.
I don't remember the last time I saw someone get revived. While a lot of that has to do with the mechanics of reviving (no press to revive), some of that has to do with how bad injectors are. However, that doesn't preclude the fact that shield users are totally boned.
Actually the shield delays affect me more as an armor tanker.
My base delay is 10 seconds, so if I try to stack shields, it penalises me more than a Caldari with a base of 5.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.18 23:44:00 -
[69] - Quote
The buffs armor got since Uprising 1.0:
Increased HP on all plates by 20, from 65/95/115 to 85/115/135
Reduced speed penalty from 3/5/10 to 2/3/5 (Now at 3/4/5)
Buffed Repairers from 2/3/5 to 2.5/5/7.5
The buffs shields got since Uprising 1.0:
Increased HP on STD/ADV extenders from 22/33 to 33/50
Buffed Complex shield recharger CPU cost from 90CPU to 85CPU
Increased Recharger bonuses from 15%/25%/42% to 25%/35%/45%
Buffed Energizers from 25%/45%/60% to 35%/55%/65%
Buffed Shield regulators from 10%/20%/25% to 15%/25%/35%
When did the imbalance happen?
Doc DDD wrote:
lol wow so you get a free kill when I revive a 1200 hp heavy with a 100% needle while you are reloading then immediate start repping him?
Stick to pub stomping and crying for more armor buffs. You have no place in any discussions about balance.
Yes actually.
The stand up animation gives me enough time to kill them/drop their HP a lot.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.18 23:45:00 -
[70] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Please stay on topic as requested and reply with the new slot layouts you agree with, only. Thanks.
Roger that Rattati.
Sorry for the above post, I was writing it before you made the request.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.18 23:54:00 -
[71] - Quote
Well, I don't think there's much to say about the slots.
If the Assault CPU/PG buff is high enough to allow Caldari to use shields without CPU mods, I don't think there will be any issues.
Are we getting a spreadsheet about that anytime soon?
I would like to theorycraft.
Edit: Nevermind, just saw the spreadsheet, will report with results soon.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.18 23:56:00 -
[72] - Quote
Oh and will you be combining your spreadsheets into one with different tabs like in Bravo?
It's more convenient that way and allows us to track the changes better.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.19 00:09:00 -
[73] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:I'm just gonna state this now.. Benefits of armor : double the hp of shields, 2-3 damage mods without losing your hp, can be repped by other players or a triage hive, when getting shot it doesn't stop your reps but you rep through it whereas even 1 damage to shields will completely stop the regen.
Benefits of shields- no movement penalty.
My opinion is the cal ass should be all highs 7/0.
Oh ffs, please don't start this again.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.20 12:43:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Assault should be better slayers, that is the only way to motivate people out of slayer logis. amarr slayer logis are not a huge issue right now anyway.
By how much though?
How much better do you intend Assaults being?
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.20 14:08:00 -
[75] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Assault should be better slayers, that is the only way to motivate people out of slayer logis. amarr slayer logis are not a huge issue right now anyway. Well, that vaguely answers one question. Sure, Amarr Logis aren't big slayers right now but it's such an isolated case... The Amarr Assault -does- have a really good bonus that pretty much everyone can agree makes it a much better slayer than the Amarr Logi, even with the sidearm. But consider, if you will, what's going to happen if the Caldari Logistics gets a sidearm when compared to the Caldari Assault. Based on your proposed slot layouts and numbers for Hotfix Charlie, the Cal Logi has one more low and two more equipment slots (proto level) on top of having better CPU/PG. Assuming all skills level 5 and both fit a (proto) Rail Rifle and Magsec combo, the Assault's bonus saves 30 CPU and 5 PG in cost between the two of them. But on the other hand, the Caldari Logi has 43 CPU and 17 more PG than the Caldari Assault, even with the Hotfix Charlie stats (a 13 CPU/12 PG difference). So who really saves here? If I make equipment my last priority, the Caldari Logi already has better fitting across the board (more slots, better resources) than the Cal Assault does, even with the Assaults' bonus to weapon fitting. So the Logi beats the Assault on resources/fitting. What about EHP and Speed? Assault has 38 more shields and 37 more armor. But hey, Cal Logi got an extra low slot, so no big deal right? Speed? Talking about a 0.3m/s difference. Comparing them side by side, I still think that the Caldari Logi is the better slayer here. EDIT: Please, someone sanity check me here if you feel that I'm wrong - maybe I'm not looking at this from the right light. EDIT: The point that I'm trying to make here is that, yes, Assaults should be better Logis and it's -one way- to make encourage the slayer Logis to use Assaults instead; but the current proposal(s) don't seem quite enough. Personally, I'd prefer to make Logis more supportive instead of just defaulting to giving them more combat options and hoping they use it responsibly.
Nope, you're pretty right.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.23 05:46:00 -
[76] - Quote
MY ASSAULT SHALL RISE FROM THE ASHES AND STRIKE DOWN THE FOTM SCRUBS!
MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.23 07:32:00 -
[77] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Cat Merc wrote:MY ASSAULT SHALL RISE FROM THE ASHES AND STRIKE DOWN THE FOTM SCRUBS!
MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Which assault are you looking at?
Gallente and Minmatar Assault, that's the two I have.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.23 13:01:00 -
[78] - Quote
I recommend to first use 150HP and then tweak from there.
It's better to get people into assaults first and then nerf slightly, like CCP did with scouts.
That way the influx of people using the Assault would be greater, and would create more data to analyze.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.23 13:05:00 -
[79] - Quote
Also, since the hotfixes are rapid, it will stay that way for a lot less time.
So CCP can afford to release something slightly OP or UP.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.23 20:01:00 -
[80] - Quote
JRleo jr wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Cyrus Grevare wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:And looking at the assault buff, I'm now a bit worried about commandos. With 8 slots and 150 extra EHP, assaults can easily become harder to kill than commandos while taking 2 damage mods to compensate commandos natural bonus. I am hoping Cyrus and protofits can help the community again, so you can theorycraft properly. We will have a final review before we push the button. And updated o7 I updated the slot layout, revised PG/CPU, implemented the Grenade reduction for Assault class and heavy weapon reduction for Heavy weapons in the Sentinel class. A couple of questions though, Slot changes for Assault and Sentinel are confirmed, what about the rest of the classes? I see the gdoc has changes for the Commandos, Logistics and Scout classes, do I ignore these or are they also slated for Charlie? (included them in my recent update to the site) Amarr Logistics have the new slot proposal + sidearm slots giving a 9 slot count to them. Can you share how that 150ehp is split for the races?, I could update that as well in the site. Probably not a good idea to put it into proto, players can add that manually. Using the current ehp split, would look like this at 150 ehp, again, to be re-evaluated based on community feedback. ArmorShield AM 100 50 CA 55 95 GA 95 55 MM 71 79 Could you please explain those numbers?
Amarr gain 100 armor and 50 shields.
Caldari gain 55 armor and 95 shields.
Gallente gain 95 armor and 55 shields.
Minmatar gain 71 armor and 79 shields.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.23 20:10:00 -
[81] - Quote
*Whips Cyrus*
NO!
NO RESTING!
UPDATE PROTOFITS AGAIN! 
*Whip*
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.23 20:22:00 -
[82] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Amarr assault needs more PG. Assault G/1-SeriesAssault A/1-SeriesThough Amarr uses a ScR and Gallente uses an AR, they are still their racial rifles so in essence, the fits are exactly identical. Notice that the Gallente has no trouble fitting that, while Amarr can't. Just for the fact that the ScR requires 10 more PG, Amarr should have 10 (or at least 5) more PG over Gallente, not 2. Then add a little extra because Amarr should be the best armor tanker so extra PG allows slightly better armor modules (complex plate instead of enhanced plate or complex ferroscales instead of enhanced plates, for example).
Few things:
SCR costs 7 more PG over Duvolle, not 10.
Amarr are getting 5 more PG than Gallente
Amarr aren't "better" armor tankers, they're a type of armor tanker
Amarr - Brick
Gallente - Fast and regenerative
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.23 20:40:00 -
[83] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The Eristic wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:We would rather cut the ehp buff than the additional slots, we feel it underlines the versatility aspect of the assault, spec for the situation. An 8th slot doesn't underline versatility, it removes the necessity of choice in suit building, further enables, nay, encourages dual tanking and destroys the lore-appropriate racial alignments the 7-slot reworking was intended to give us. You have to make people make choices, or they'll go the easy route every time. See every FotM ever for evidence. There WILL be 1200+ HP Proto Assaults stomping Pubs (which, btw, will further marginalize Laser weaponry). The Amarr at 3-5 will be able hit 1300 and carry a Boundless CR BEFORE the additional 150 HP buff, and Gal won't be too far behind with greater mobility and built-in reps. Toss in a logi friend and the Assaults are now into Sentinel territory. Even if a suit decides to give up a primary tank slot for a non-HP mod, the additional secondary tank slot makes compensating for it that much easier, making the decision less meaningful. Cut the slot. Make choices matter. Surely trading a slot for 150 ehp is less tanking in theory, seeing as one slot is at max 135 hp. And those who don't want hp can pick something else, so more choice, right? If assault become the new FOTM, we will be monitoring the situation, but right now it's everything but the assault. Reiterating, that the ehp is completely up for discussion, let's wait for some protofit FOTM examples that make all other suits useless 
148.5HP*
DETAILS RATTATI
DETAILS!
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.23 20:43:00 -
[84] - Quote
I say keep the HP buff and slot buff, tweak after data has been gathered.
That's the beauty of rapid releases, you don't get stuck for months with a broken game.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.23 21:45:00 -
[85] - Quote
I believe HP buff should take higher priority.
Assaults NEED higher HP, their HP difference from scouts is too low.
If you just give them an extra slot, I'm pretty sure that 99% of the time, it will just be used for more HP to increase the gap.
When you are always seen and can't see the enemy, you better bring much better shields and armor.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.24 14:32:00 -
[86] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:FabryX10 wrote:Please stop crying. You are ridiculous. Surely, all scouts and heavies... I always played my UP Caldari assault or logi. Now let us try new layouts and ehp before crying. Never seen posts like these when scouts and heavies got OP BUFF. So, please stop crying. For the record, Scouts are by and large in favor of Assault buffs.
Of course you are.
That means more targets that can't take 4 shotgun blasts
Or survive charged nova knives
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.24 15:47:00 -
[87] - Quote
You know why armor tankers put on extenders?
Because there's nothing else to put there to benefit an assault suit.
It used to be damage mods, but those were nerfed hard.
Any attempt to move a module to high slots was met with a giant "Boo!" or "No!" followed by the reasoning "armor op".
So you have any problems with me putting on extenders? You can cram it.
Give me useful utility modules and I will gladly stop using extenders.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.24 16:19:00 -
[88] - Quote
Killer's Coys wrote:Boot Booter wrote:Yeah the balance between shields and armor is pretty close IMHO (perhaps a slight edge to armor, shield energizer/recharger buff in the works though).
I think Rattati should just slowly increase all hp module capacity costs until fits diversify a bit. Yes I agree with you, but I think (my thoughts) must not increase PG/CPU cost for the complex shield extender... 54/11 is already heavy I think. My opinion is, to stop the dual-tankers, increase - the CPU cost for shield extender - the PG for armor plates With it, "only" Caldari (and Minmatar) could put shield extender, and (for example) the caldari couldn't put armor plates But if your thoughts were also increase the PG for shield xetender, it would be very difficult for a calda to fit 3-4 shield extenders So, for me, that's what it whould be done. Stop dual tankers, and make shiald or armor mod only for the specialized one.. For your previous post, I totaly agree with you, the Minma assault should have better shield regulator... Maybe with a suit bonus ? Why not ? But not the HP/s regen, that's for the caldari (for me, minma assault shield regu. : 5/7 => the same as the caldari, but minma has more armor, so more time to wait shield comes back after exhaustion)
As soon as I get something to put in high slots that doesn't suck.
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.24 18:29:00 -
[89] - Quote
At LEAST increase myo stims to like 100% or something.
I am LOOKING for reasons to dump my shield extenders, seriously, please, give me a reason, any at all!
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.24 19:04:00 -
[90] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:Cat Merc wrote:At LEAST increase myo stims to like 100% or something.
I am LOOKING for reasons to dump my shield extenders, seriously, please, give me a reason, any at all! Myo's are useless at this point. Raising them up to +100% would make melee combat not only hillarious but viable.
I would totally fit a kincat on my Gal Assault, put three myo stims on and punch my enemies to death!
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.24 20:56:00 -
[91] - Quote
So, I'm confused.
Are Assaults getting the extra HP or not?
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Cat Merc
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Posted - 2014.07.25 12:23:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:I got the impression Ratatti was referring to plates, not reactive or ferroscale, for a pg increase. Until he confirms otherwise, I'm going to assume he meant -all- plates because they are -all- plates. "The path is clear however, this overemphasis of eHP buffing has to be countered, simply by increasing PG of plates, it is obvious and imminent." Even then, I'm not exactly for increasing the PG on plates under the pretense that "EHP tanking has to be countered" - if anything, it just goes to show me that utility modules need to be more appealing and that there is some severe problems with fitting diversity. If the counter to fitting armor plates and shield extenders is making armor plates harder to fit, then we've made a severe over-sight as to what can be done about the high slot problem in the first place. So unless we want to combat that by making Armor Tankers really slow, melee focused or really slow, with half-decent scan precision and [redacted] range... You can't ask for Armor Tankers to fit anything besides shield/damage mods because the alternatives (Myrofibral and Precision Enhancers) just aren't worth their salt. You're likely never going to benefit from them because a) If you're in melee range, something is terribly wrong. b) If you're within that scan range, something is terribly wrong. The only way you're going to stop someone from EHP tanking is if the utility modules in their off-slot (the slots that don't utilize their preferred tanking) are more appealing. We just buffed Reactives and Ferroscales, why would they be included? Brick tanking means maximum hp, and those two have less than half the hp as the Armor Plates.
Because even though you're at the helm, this is still CCP.
We expect stupid decisions until said otherwise.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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