Isn't that what I just said? They need to be overhauled so that they ARE useful.

Issue: I think overhauls are covered under the "It's not Christmas" clause.

And i;m saying you;'re putting the cart before the horse. We've seen that we need to have small incremental changes otherwise they are going to mess it up. You have to start with getting the base frame work done and having us actually see something happen.

Maybe I'm saying this wrong; I'm not interested in thought-exercises but talking about things I actually want changed

The general structure for the bonuses on specialty suits would be something like this (I plan to blatantly rip off the proposal you guys put together for scout bonus rework, I was very impressed overall and will of course give credit for your work).

Gallente Scout
Frame Bonus: +% Reduction to PG/CPU Cost of Cloaks / Lvl of Light Frames
Role Bonus: TBD (This would be shared across all Scouts) / Lvl of Scout Suits
Racial Bonus 1: +% Bonus to Dampeners (Unique to Race) / Lvl of Gallente Scouts
Racial Bonus 2: +% Bonus to Range Amps (Unique to Race) / Lvl of Gallente Scouts

all Specialty roles (Assault, Sentinel, ect.) would follow the same format.

And if the slot layouts were altered, would you say that would provide incentive to use them, as they would be actually different to the specialisations.
Imagine for a moment that the Medium Frame had 2 Equipment slots, would you use that over the Logi or Assault?
Or if heavy frame had an Equipment slot with no grenade, would you use that over the Commando and Sentinel at any given point?

I think any change to the Frame suits, is going to cause the Amarr Scout problem. At present there are 2 reasons to skill into the Amarr Scout, (1) because you're doing it for RP purposes (2) you're just starting out and the Cal/Gal/Min suits don't have the fitting availability until you spend millions of points on Core skills.
It even has its very own role skills.
I've said that the greatest asset of the Amarr Scout is its ablity to fit things, that makes it really great for the new guy. . . You know what it doesn't do? Provide a bonus that's useful in end-game play.

And that's what the Frames are now, only you're required to put SP into them to get the actual suits you want.
But it doesn't matter how you change them, they are low-hanging fruit. Short term investments or SP taxes. There is no point in a "generalized" fit if you can use a specialized one. If I want to kill something I'll use an Assault, Logi, Commando, Sentinel or Scout.

At one point in time I did use a Medium Frame C/1-Series, because I could put 3 damage mods on it, my proto swarms, and keep a sidearm. This was when my only 2 suits were Gallente Scout and Caldari Logistics. But know what happened next? I skilled into Caldari Assault. Even at Cal-Assault level 1 it was better than the ADV Frame because of the bonus.

The Frames themselves have no place in DUST other than to absorb SP. Giving them small bonuses won't matter because specialization will always be better. As soon as you get enough SP to have 2 suits in the game the Frames, even if you gave them a bonus, would become obsolete at best and just a terrible SP tax like they are now.

I'll run through the PvE here and there (mostly to upgrade my stuff easier)
Like I think a good bit of people will do, since u can progress stuff (weapons, suits, abilities) in PvE or PvP and can in turn use those things in ether game mode.

That PvP though, awwwww yeah.Fun as hell, looks like there is going to be 5 or 6 game modes from what I saw in the alpha I'd have to look at the footage to tell exactly. Only 1 game mode was in the alpha (domination) It was fast paced, accuracy mattered, vehicles being limited and easily destroyed, 1 of the maps in the alpha had a good mixture of long range/short range fighting (moon), 2nd map (earth) was just pretty much just cqc shotguns everywhere, weird bit was everyone being able to carry 3 weapons. Primary weapon, special weapon (shotgun, sniper rifle) heavy weapon (hmg, rockets) just the ones I saw in the alpha. They have weapon ammo drops to control how much the special weapons/heavy weapons are used, could see them tweaking that timer a bit more.

Yeah I'm just going to shut up and say I loved it. Like Halo bent Unreal Tournament over and had its way. Just sayin. XD
Destiny Alpha Montage
Random Gameplay


1 last thing, for those who are getting the game
Codes that supposedly unlock content in the finished game.
Have to go on bungie.net and go to the code redemption page. Prolly just some kinda weapon skin or emblems for the player cards.

Warlock: YKA-RJG-MH9
Hunter: 3DA-P4X-F6A
Titan: MVD-4N3-NKH
Rixis: TCN-HCD-TGY
Old-Russia: HDX-ALM-V4K
Hive: 473-MXR-3X9
Moon: JMR-LFN-4A3
Gjallorhorn: HC3-H44-DKC
Duke MK.44: 69P-KRM-JJA
The Tower: 69P-VCH-337
The Hive: 69R-CKD-X7L
Valley of the Kings, Mars: 69R-DDD-FCP
The Fallen: 69R-F99-AXG
Red Death: 69R-VL7-J6A
The Cabal: 69X-DJN-74V
The Devastated Coast, Venus: 6A7-7NP-3X7
Vex Minotaur: 6A9-DTG-YGN

That's the general idea. Right now you basically get the same slot layout, but with bonuses when you move to Specialty. How it SHOULD work is that you have to give something up in order to gain specialization. I feel it gives a better sense of specialization, and not so much a straight upgrade like it is now.

Lots of good points, and thanks again to Pokey for coming to us with these ideas. o7

As an aside, I hope that NPE remains especially brutal for Scouts. We sure as sh*t don't want a bunch of weak-willed "its too hard" cry babies running around the Barbershop. Better for us that those types find their way into other Frames; we much prefer guys like Jace.

This Community exists because of rough starts. Those few newbros who are willing to stay the course fit in well here.

Ok. Small nap, definitely am sick, but take 2:
Essentially, there's no place in DUST 514 for the Frames. There is room to specialize past the current roles because of the bonuses.

Yup o/

From what I saw of the pre-alpha (or whatever they called it) footage, gameplay looks solid.
And ripped straight from the Space Marine game, but that's not a bad thing.

Even as an aspiring CPM (and aspiring Minja ) I've still gotten sucked in to Eternal Crusade.
I was a 40k kid back in the day and have to admit I still dig the lore.
If anyone happens to be looking for an invite code for bonus shiny things
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-7F0VJZOT6GL55
(yes if you use it I get shiny things too ), but as a drunken scoundrel I could hardly say no to the possibilities


EDIT: Oh and since I'm being a grabby little beast anyway, Vote for me!

Also, who's going to name weapons in here and am I going to see a full set of Barbershop themed names?

So would you advocate their total removal then? I'm of the opinion that either we should make them have a purpose, or remove them completely. I would rather avoid the former, and while you personally may feel they have no place, I think they can be made far more relevant.

I think they are SP sinks and don't have a place, I would advocate for their removal. The only thing they serve to do classify Sentinels & Commandos and Assault & Logistics as related bases.

Frost Kitty has basically won the shotgun.
I wonder what he'll name it.

(SPOILER WARNING)

...
......
.........

Hello Kitty Shotgun

Also, who's going to name weapons in here and am I going to see a full set of Barbershop themed names?

Gotcha. Very much in favor of greater specialization / investment / SP requirements for Scouts. Requiring us to put two more points into Light Frames would be fine; most -- if not all -- of us switched trees at Level(3). Many of us are running out of things to spend SP on.

I really wanted to call a weapon "App's 7188" or "Lady App's Deep Fried"

I still want to name a pair of nova knives "Brutus's MAR-15 Nova Knives" far better than some anime reference, Ghost.

@Irony - haha dig the corp name.

@whoever, I know a guy that needs a plasma cannon fit. My friend hasn't played in awhile but kinda wants to see his name on a weapon. Any good adv gal fits rocking the proto plasma cannon that i.... can pass along to my friend? Prefer adv frame but eh proto if it's a must. Cloak not required.