OK. in that dampening numbers I changed my tune. Because all scouts need to be stealthy, no-one gets the bonus to dampening. This way Gallente still take up 2 slots to dampen as do Minmatar and Amarr and Caldari, but only if Caldari Precision bonus is changed to 4% or 3% bonus to efficacy of Precision Enhancers per level

GalLogi?

Agreed 100%. We all serve different roles, but one tenant holds true:

A detected Scout is a dead Scout.

Seriously. We run 1/2 - 1/3 the HP of MedFrames and 1/4 - 1/5 the HP of Heavies.
If we're going to have any hope competitively, we all need to be able to sneak about.

Should we be pushing for a return of 5% reduction to profile / level?

Fix it later?

Yes. F-The-Cloak

It has done nothing but DESTROY the whole role of a scout. It turned a difficult job into an easy one, and became an "I WIN" button for every shotty in the game.

Stealth is fun, but this is freaking ridiculous. I liked it better when scouting was about dodging scans and staying out of peoples eyesight instead of stacking eHP and cloaking until they don't have time to react.

You think the "vocal minority" (Zatara Rought) will go for that?

I can wreck your entire class with this one piece of equipment ... and you want me to give it up? What role will the GalLogi serve after that? Even if I were willing to entertain your request, what would you Scouts be willing to give up?

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Man I so agree with this.

I'm no not surprised that CCPs two babies, the Cloak and Active scanner, are so hard to balance. Why they continue to force crap like that into the game is beyond me. It's either way OP, or completely useless... and they can't even get it to function as intended patch after patch (scannerina's and cloaked firing) all it does is draw their resources away from balancing the rest of the crap that needs attention.

Why? CCP, why? RRRGGGG!

*bashes head against wall until clone dies*

I know you're calling him the vocal minority. but it is a pretty accurate stance on the forums. They need their trump card... but don't call it that because they will use the best mental gymnastics to figure out a way that it isn't even if that defies logic.

The majority of players do not want a tactical game, which is what stealth is. Stealth protects your tactics, not your skills. We're really the vocal minority. We want a better game, they want an easier game.

We're chasing our tail.

Somewhere in Remnant's office is a big-arse eWar diagram.
It accounts for every factor we've considered to date. And then some.

Remnant is watching us now. And laughing.
I know I'd be.

Strategy Proposition:

Don't nerf an item and buff its counter.

We can't know the optimal course without knowing what we'll be up against. We need to seriously get behind an Assault buff if for no other reason than for future planning. Our ranks are still swollen with "slayers" who'd prefer to be running fits geared toward frontal assault. Let's give it to them, then reassess.

Thoughts?

Strategy Proposition:

Don't nerf an item and buff its counter.

We can't know the optimal course without knowing what we'll be up against. We need to seriously get behind an Assault buff if for no other reason than for future planning. Our ranks are still swollen with "slayers" who'd prefer to be running fits geared toward frontal assault. Let's give it to them, then reassess.

Thoughts?

That sounds good in theory, but 300HP disappears fast every time my CalScout gets close to a half-decent enemy. 50 meters is insta-gib range for any Fine Rifle. And I'm pretty easy to spot being that I can't do my job if I'm running damps.

PS: I mean no disrespect; very much want to hear to you're thinking.

I want to protect my Minmatar Scout first

there is also several dozen assault fixes out there. we should go downstairs and compile our favoreites and endorce one or two together

I know you're calling him the vocal minority. but it is a pretty accurate stance on the forums. They need their trump card... but don't call it that because they will use the best mental gymnastics to figure out a way that it isn't even if that defies logic.

The majority of players do not want a tactical game, which is what stealth is. Stealth protects your tactics, not your skills. We're really the vocal minority. We want a better game, they want an easier game.

Thoughts?

Agreed 100%. We all serve different roles, but one tenant holds true:

A detected Scout is a dead Scout.

Seriously. We run 1/2 - 1/3 the HP of MedFrames and 1/4 - 1/5 the HP of Heavies.
If we're going to have any hope competitively, we all need to be able to sneak about.

Should we be pushing for a return of 5% reduction to profile / level?

I want to protect my Minmatar Scout first

there is also several dozen assault fixes out there. we should go downstairs and compile our favoreites and endorce one or two together

Exactly.

I honestly think that it's safe now to move back to pre-1.8 scouts now.

Logi's have lost most of their ability to marginalize scouts (which was the real problem)

F-The-Cloak, gimme back the old bonus.

At the same time, do this:

Give the Gal Logi larger bonuses to cool-down and active scan duration. They will be able to scan medium frames more effectively. Scouts who don't proto damp will still get scanned. At the same time, make Active Scans share with the team. Passive gets shared in squad. This way, most teams will only run 1-2 Scan Gal Logi's. They use their scans to more effectively scan hot areas for the ground pounders, but won't pick up scouts.

Assaults will still be able to proto damp, but will sacrifice low slots to do so. Sounds like a good trade to me.

Get rid of the cloak. Seriously.

Do this: and then we can give the bonuses to scouts some meaning.

Min Scout: 5% Nova Knife and Hacking
Gallente: +1 Armor rep per level
Amarr: 5% Scan Range per level
Caldari: +5 Shield Recharge per level

Bonuses are more suited toward regen or utitily instead of eWAR.

The Modules become the reason why eWAR is strong for these suits, combined with their better base skills in these areas.

Scouts become good at exposing the troops around them without alerting them. For most scouts though, range is limited, and only the squad shares the intel.

Gal Logi's become good at exposing troops at a distance, but warns the enemy. Range is good, cooldown is greatly reduced, and the intel is shared with the team.

Sound decent?

This totally sucks.... I feel your pain Jace. I run basic suits and I was commenting earlier on how impossible it would be for lower level scouts to be EWAR effective. I think they'd give up.

And to Ghosts comments....

Geeze. So CCP makes changes, and slayer scouts totally bail on EWAR to preserve tank/gank and alot of the true blue scouts completely compromise their fits to maximize EWAR.

Nice work CCP. bravo.

EDIT: on Ghost's suggestions... I agree w/ Appia. I'd rather Gallente regen be at most 2hp/s as a standard Gallente thing. Then maybe give them some other bonus (I'd love the Amarr stamina bonus, personally....)

For Caldari, not sure but I definintely think giving shield regen will keep the slayers around. Especially with 4 high slots at proto level. Increased scope zoom sounds interesting and a caldari/scout kind of thing....

Points well made; one question:

Why not run a GalLogi with Active Scanner(s)?
Far greater staying / slaying power.
Far greater utility.