Also, f*cking heavies everywhere. Bring your REs, Shotguns and Knives; they're going to be a problem.

Nerf SG, RE and NK dey OP

Alright, so general sentiment seems to be that the change to slowdown isn't making a negative impact. I was just being overcautious, and just wanted to specifically solicit feedback in case we broke something terribly.

In other news, I might actually look into reducing backwards movement speed (it appears to be the same as forward movement speed right now). No promises, but I'll at least give it a look.

Honestly can't tell you that I've noticed any major difference yet.

GalScout:
I'd been running Damps(x2) + KinCats(x2) and I've noticed no change so far. I do seem to "pop up" on enemy TacNet more often when I swap out the second damp for KinCat (x3) or Armor Rep.

CalScout:
Observing fewer Scouts in matches than before. Still running Enhancers(x2) + Range Extenders(x2). Too early to tell whether or not I'm scanning Scouts more regularly than before.

Cloak:
I kinda like the new duration changes. Quick drain; quick recharge.

Oher Observations:
Nyain San pubstompers are currently embedding a squishy CalScout or two instead of GalLogis, but that may change. They're spamming fewer tanks already, which I take as a good sign. Also, f*cking heavies everywhere. Bring your REs, Shotguns and Knives; they're going to be a problem.

Monk seems to have staggered out of his hammock

Mom!?!? Where is the ******* meatloaf?!?!?!

This is what I expect in the near future.

So from what I'm initially reading...

Gal Scout isn't as horribly ****** as people initially thought.

Cal Scout is still operating in a similar manner.

Am Scout is still really...not...good...

Minmatar Scout still needs love.

That sound about accurate?

The thing about knives is you need to survive long enough to get next to the person, and be able to be faster than they back pedal. To get next to a person you have to be a ghost. Base movement speed on the minmatar just isn't enough for knives. Base dampening isn't enough. Two lows, the resource cost of knives, shields, and a cloak means you're not fitting a combination of those things to actually be useful as all of those are the most resource intensives mods in the game. All of these ironically are key to making the Minmatar suit actually useful.

Sorry to anyone arguing but kincats and staying damped are a necessary part to make knives work. Minmatar are now really really bad assassins. They're slow, blind, and scanned easily.

Also the minmatar has always been the suit that has had to sacrifice a lot to be remotely good at one thing. So before everyone jumps down Demon's throat, the minmatar suit is still far behind all the cal and gal scouts by quite a bit in terms of usefulness.

I haven't played yet but just by the math minmitar will need 3 complex damps and a proto cloak to hide from gal logistics with focused scans and Cal with 2 precision mods.

This is just me spouting nonsense, but what if the Minnie got more speed? What if the minnies speed was it's version of the damping or precision for the Gal and Cal, attainable only at an inferior level if you aren't a minmatar?

Emphasize its strength, rather than make up for a weakness.

I literally just stood up and said to myself "Why didn't I think of that?!" /facepalm

(Apologies to anyone that actually did suggest it earlier that we may have missed.)

I'll have a chat with CCP Ratatti and we can some numbers. That might actually work better, not to mention it would be closer to the Amarr and Minmatar scouts which also have module/weapon efficacy bonuses as well.

Thanks for checking in, Pokey. o7

Too early to say with certainty, but ...
Worried about Minmatar Scout.
Everything else seems stable.

Tinkered a 'bit with mk.0 on www.protofits.com.

Stealth Fit / Assuming Max Skills
LS: 2 Cmp Damps + 1 Cmp KinCat
HS: Shields or Damage Amps
PW: Combat or Assault Rifle
SW: Ishukone Nova Knives
EQ1: Prototype Cloak
EQ2: Can't fit much
GR: Can't fit much

* Highly recommend improving suit fitting capacity such that it perform on par with other Scouts.
* Freely defer to brother Minjas ... what do you guys think?

As my daughter tells me my gal scout looks like it has a battery in it's butt. Thats when I realized that discomfort is why the gal has such good cpu/pg and less speed. Maybe the minja need to quit having tight asses and they could fit more.
sorry, my daughter got me distracted on serious balance as she makes fun of my gal scout appearance.

Interesting...

In response to moving from passive bonuses to module efficiency bonuses.


https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2194274#post2194274

Not sure where they're going with this. Or why.

GalScouts getting better damp bonuses via modules won't solve anything.
Presently, I have to run two damps on my Gal to beat competitive scans.
If I could get away with one, nothing would prevent me from doing so, then stacking 3 plates.

It'd be Invisible Monster allover again.

---

Unless, what they're trying to say is that the GalScout nerf was insufficient.
Its too early to tell whether or not that's the case, but I've observed a decline in their prevalence.

Godin is moaning about a brick-tanked GalScouts.
Again, fix Assault Frames and solve the problem.

These should be the go-to slayer suit.
Not the GalScout + Brick.
Not the Heavy + Fine Rifle.

Thanks for checking in, Pokey. o7

Too early to say with certainty, but ...
Worried about Minmatar Scout.
Everything else seems stable.

* Highly recommend improving suit fitting capacity such that it perform on par with other Scouts.
* Freely defer to brother Minjas ... what do you guys think?

I'm a big fan of actually getting empirical data instead of relying too heavily on conceptual numbers. Everything always works differently in practice vs on paper, so I was curious to hear what you guys are experiencing actually in-game.

I'll admit I've really only played as Gallente and Caldari Scout (I've only dabbled in the militia light frames for Amarr/Minmatar) but just playing around on Protofits, the Minmatar really are a ***** to fit, which isn't cool. If anything I would expect them to have decent fitting for a good speed tank since that's kinda their thing.

So aside from ****** fitting, how is the stealth ability? The vibe I'm getting from posts is that the lack of fitting is what really kills the Minni Scout's stealth capabilities.


Also I think the severe lack of Amarr Scout usage just further proves there is something seriously wrong with it. Do you guys think it needs a bigger % to stamina to be useful? Or a complete re-work of its roles/bonuses to make it more relevant?

I'll admit I've really only played as Gallente and Caldari Scout (I've only dabbled in the militia light frames for Amarr/Minmatar) but just playing around on Protofits, the Minmatar really are a ***** to fit, which isn't cool. If anything I would expect them to have decent fitting for a good speed tank since that's kinda their thing.

So aside from ****** fitting, how is the stealth ability? The vibe I'm getting from posts is that the lack of fitting is what really kills the Minni Scout's stealth capabilities.


Also I think the severe lack of Amarr Scout usage just further proves there is something seriously wrong with it. Do you guys think it needs a bigger % to stamina to be useful? Or a complete re-work of its roles/bonuses to make it more relevant?

[Competitive Play] ... as I predicted from the numbers, people just gave up on dampening.

I'm a big fan of actually getting empirical data instead of relying too heavily on conceptual numbers. Everything always works differently in practice vs on paper, so I was curious to hear what you guys are experiencing actually in-game.

I'll admit I've really only played as Gallente and Caldari Scout (I've only dabbled in the militia light frames for Amarr/Minmatar) but just playing around on Protofits, the Minmatar really are a ***** to fit, which isn't cool. If anything I would expect them to have decent fitting for a good speed tank since that's kinda their thing.

So aside from ****** fitting, how is the stealth ability? The vibe I'm getting from posts is that the lack of fitting is what really kills the Minni Scout's stealth capabilities.


Also I think the severe lack of Amarr Scout usage just further proves there is something seriously wrong with it. Do you guys think it needs a bigger % to stamina to be useful? Or a complete re-work of its roles/bonuses to make it more relevant?

Additionally, the removal of range from the Cal means that, while it retains extremely high precision scanning, they're very limited in their range so they need to put themselves into danger to make use of it.

If our suits are best utilized in Assault roles, then we won't have a competitively viable role to fill once Assault get buffed. How do we fix this?

Dampening can't be a Gallente thing. It needs to be a Scout thing. Otherwise the point of a low HP, high speed suit doesn't have a role. much like the scouts were outperformed by Logistics in basically everything from 1.0 to 1.7

Agreed 100%. We all serve different roles, but one tenant holds true:

A detected Scout is a dead Scout.

Seriously. We run 1/2 - 1/3 the HP of MedFrames and 1/4 - 1/5 the HP of Heavies.
If we're going to have any hope competitively, we all need to be able to sneak about.

Should we be pushing for a return of 5% reduction to profile / level?

So from what I'm initially reading...

Gal Scout isn't as horribly ****** as people initially thought.

Cal Scout is still operating in a similar manner.

Am Scout is still really...not...good...

Minmatar Scout still needs love.

That sound about accurate?

Agreed 100%. We all serve different roles, but one tenant holds true:

A detected Scout is a dead Scout.

Seriously. We run 1/2 - 1/3 the HP of MedFrames and 1/4 - 1/5 the HP of Heavies.
If we're going to have any hope competitively, we all need to be able to sneak about.

Should we be pushing for a return of 5% reduction to profile / level?