Alldin has spec every suit and vehicle and dominated, it just happens that you aren't that good with a heavy so sad. Lets just say his gear is black and his gun should say Alldin's Gastun HMG. Lol at how sensitive heavy players are

This is true to an extent, most of the range shock is due to the loss of SS skill. I had SS proficiency I and a few times today when I had just rebuilt my Heavy I did find myself attempting to hit targets at 40M or so and not even registering a flash. In chromosome he'd have been shredded just as fast as if he was within 20m.

I agree that SS had broken weapon balance and I could learn to live with range nerf on HMG's, Except for the buff to AR range....I played on my Assault today and I was just toying with the fatties. Even Amarr proto fits with a boundless just don't instill the fear they once did, not even in close quarters. I would simply outrun the heavy, break out to 40-50m and put down the poor waddling bastard with my Proto Tac or Burst AR. Admittedly none of the heavies I slaughtered really played Well.

The damage nerf is maybe a bit too much, especially considering the loss of weaponrys passive gain. I use a Boundless with two complex damage mods with HMG proficiency V, yet it kills like a chromosome MH-82 with one complex mod and no operation proficiency. I honestly will not use anything but a Boundless or Six Kin because everything else just feels way to weak.



Obviously I agree that there's more to it than Musta's statement but I'm pretty sure sharpshooter never effected "spread" or "dispersion". It simply increased maximum optimal range and maximum range. I always felt HMG became extremely accurate, a literal bullet hose out to 50m, and with SS bringing the damage out to that range it was a bit much.

In my experience with Uprising I can't even make an Assault think twice about engaging me at 40m. I'm fine with an AR having a distinct advantage at 40m but I should at the very least i should do just enough damage to force him to take cover or strafe-peek from cover so I can get to my own cover, get away, close the gap if possible or hold him off until my own AR wielding squadmate can come to my aid by challenging my attackers range. This I believe is the biggest issue with HMG's in Uprising.

The tracking issue I thought was just me getting comfortable with different feeling controls. Although besides noticing a decrease in turn speed I Also noticed that bullets do not leave the barrel as accurately as before while turning. Somewhat hard to explain but if you were to pivot around in circles while hip firing you may notice the bullet trails leaving the barrel at a steeper angle away from barrel than in chromosome. Maybe this has something to do with hip firing in close quarters feeling wonky, I don't know but I definitely feel it.

To heavys who want to get back to kicking down doors...Boundless, HMG proficiency V, 2 Complex damage mods, Flux grenades and most importantly Close Quarters maps.

Alldin only complains when something is wrong, he only complains about input lag which every gun has. Maybe you should ask alldin for the special deal on lessons for corp members

I agree with all of this. One thing to add is the sentinel is designed to be a slow moving tank, much like the previous vk0 or type A etc. the 2 biggest issues with this is all suits base HP are that of the shield variant, which previously had greater movement speed.

now ALL suits have the slower movement speed, thus removing the option for heavies to be more aggressive on the battlefield. hit detection/aim has been affected in this build as well, which has been commented on several occasions.

and people can agree or disagree about the range, here is a nice example showing how sad it has become. I'm on 1 side of the tabletop, up top, and cannot damage the guy that just climbed up on the ladder on the other side. worse yet I can barely put a dent in the shields of the guy directly below me.

I'm FORCED to stack dmg mods just to not be rendered completely useless on the battlefield, and while I am finding ways to make it work, I cannot cross a road without getting destroyed from somewhere, even when I see them shooting at me cause I shoot at them and do zero damage, while they sit there, squat down, and slowly murder my 1100+ total HP before I can cross a road.

I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG.

Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!)

Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes.

- The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry.
- The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.

The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.

Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better.

Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages!

Apparently by the devs comments someone has determined what the heavy role should be in this sandbox game. Which is definetly different from its original toe to toe with vehicles and survive description. By their new definition you should not be crossing roads on these huge planets with large maps and dynamic game play. You should stand in one spot for the whole match and enjoy it, you are not designed to be relevant for 90% of the game and for 10% be a beast holding a letter. Maybe for corp battles it would be with it, but for the rest of the games available to play they have now told us what are role is being designed for.

We didn't touch the movement and tracking speed on the Sentinel suit.

Do you realize that in reality anything with a slow turning rate their main weakness is close range? You basically designed a class that has the main advantage of close range dmg and the main weakness of close range because it can't turn. But at the same time they can't hit anything at range. You can kill proto heavy's with miltia scouts and assaults now. They are beyond broken. Not a little bit broken, needs tweeks broken, completly utterly don't use this class, don't waste you sp broken.
They where already lossing to proto assaults pre patch. If you undo the dmg nerf, and undo the range nerf, you would still have to give them a turning rate buff, then MAYBE they would be a usuable class in corp matches at proto level when playing with good fps players.

Do you realize that in reality anything with a slow turning rate their main weakness is close range? You basically designed a class that has the main advantage of close range dmg and the main weakness of close range because it can't turn. But at the same time they can't hit anything at range. You can kill proto heavy's with miltia scouts and assaults now. They are beyond broken. Not a little bit broken, needs tweeks broken, completly utterly don't use this class, don't waste you sp broken.
They where already lossing to proto assaults pre patch. If you undo the dmg nerf, and undo the range nerf, you would still have to give them a turning rate buff, then MAYBE they would be a usuable class in corp matches at proto level when playing with good fps players.

I understand that you where looking at some stats that say they were too strong in pub matches. But if you balance a class on pub matches where new players in militia fittings charge heavy's head on then they will be broken forever. Take a page from blizzard entertainment and balance the game for the top tier players or you will end up with a game thats fun for noobs to play around with all sorts of fitting and all the top tier players will have 1 fitting worth using.

tbh that would be way too much, and completely unbalanced with everything else.

it needs fixing but not to what it was either

noone was using proto heavy in corp matches.

Well that only explains why he was able to get the kill at all, but the fact remains he had to use almost a whole clip to do it.

I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG.


- The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.

Two questions ....


If Heavies are intended for defense only why is it our only method or gaining WP's thus SP/ISK is killing people ? Sitting far from the frontlines leads to low WP contribution which leads to slow SP progression .


If this is as intended why does Heavies have the highest SP requirement of all the classes ?

I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG.

Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!)

Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes.

- The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry.
- The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.

The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.

Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better.

Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages!

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Exactly as I said it in my heavies have a niche now thread. You guys were doing it wrong...

That does not answer the question. And saying a phrase over and over in several threads does not make it true without real facts to back it up .

If Heavies are intended for defense only why is it our only method or gaining WP's thus SP/ISK is killing people ? Sitting far from the frontlines leads to low WP contribution which leads to slow SP progression .


If this is as intended why does Heavies have the highest Se requirement of all the classes ?

The CCP guy said it all. That's their intention of how heavies should work. It's a sad truth but oh well.

a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.

Reading that CCP quote ruined my breakfast, lol.

Their vision appears to be weapons with the effective range of this.

After testing for days this is my feedback on the hmg from a logi bro point of view who has been hybrid support/offence logi since closed beta.