started out with great info, then zitro commented and it all went to hell

I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG.

Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!)

Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes.

- The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry.
- The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.

The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.

Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better.

Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages!

As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG

I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG.

Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!)

Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes.

- The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry.
- The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.

The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.

Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better.

Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages!

I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG.

Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!)

Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes.

- The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry.
- The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.

The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.

Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better.

Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages!

I don't usually play heavy but I put an alt's 1.5m SP into it, focusing on heavy frame, advanced HMG, maxed armor passives.

Other than the SP sink issue which is covered in more detail elsewhere, the main issue is that nobody is intimidated by the HMG anymore. A major part of the HMG user's survivability, in my opinion, was that the HMG scared the kitten out of people. Firing an HMG into a crowd would break up the crowd, making it possible to pick off the individuals. Firing an HMG down a hallway emptied the hallway.

I tear into a crowd of guys with the HMG now (and I don't rambo in, I'm typically a support player and an experienced nova knifer, so I understand the cautious approach) and they respond by murdering me. Hell, I fire at once guy and he'll still have a shot at taking me on with his AR by sprinting out of range (he has time to do this because my gun is awful) and firing at me. Is he backing up faster than I can approach? It seems that I can be quite effectively kited like this.

I've been on both ends of an HMG since Uprising started and there are horrifyingly few situations where the HMG user comes out on top.

That's odd.

Is that 20m as seen from the target intel info on-screen? I double-checked the curves like five minutes ago and they're definitely 30m for optimal range.

I'll investigate further.

You cant do that. Your effectivly restricting an entire playstyle. As a heavy i dont want to be stuck defending the whole time, i put forward that charging the breach is just as much our job. We cant even try to do that. we havent got the range to put down damage, we have to much spread to concentraight fire, we dont have the damage to hurt a target. putting those three together hurt just too much.

We do do damage at close range its true... if our target stands still, you hit our tracking and movement speed too. We cant track anything at close range.
You made us a close range fighter and then made it impossible to target anything close

Things relevant to my interest

That's odd.

Is that 20m as seen from the target intel info on-screen? I double-checked the curves like five minutes ago and they're definitely 30m for optimal range.

I'll investigate further.

proto HMG lost two high slots for complex mods, lost weaponry bonus, lost over 20% base damage.

The longest HMG kill I have gotten was 29m and that took nearly an entire clip because the spread is so wide at that range it becomes highly ineffective.

Excellent point. I'd forgotten that they were being buffed by the blanket bonus to all weapon damage given by the weaponry skill.

Please don't take this as me being snarky, but you guys do know that the HMG dispersion get tighter the longer you fire it, right?

Please don't take this as me being snarky, but you guys do know that the HMG dispersion get tighter the longer you fire it, right?

Well after the second page here I quit reading all the whining. I've specced into a Heavy with all my skills and yes I have to say Heavies with HMG's aren't the feared beasts they once were, but they can still kick ass.
For example, last time we couldn't get pass a certain point due to a squad of 4 players behind a rock tearing all the non-heavies to shreds. So what did I? I threw a cooked flux grenade, (because every HMG user should carry those to get rid of pesky shields ) made a sprint behind the rocks they hided and just mow them down. It's all about tactics still.
Oh, and the Forge Gun is still doing fine, so maybe try sniping with the forge guns more often? Once you can snipe little dots up on a hill you feel mighty!

We didn't touch the movement and tracking speed on the Sentinel suit.

Please don't take this as me being snarky, but you guys do know that the HMG dispersion get tighter the longer you fire it, right?

For tracking consider this a bug report, or that its become more aparent in this build. I played heavy the entire beta, I can not keep my recitle on target.

At range spread forces you to look down the sights, which cant keep on anyone not walking. closer... it seems the fluidity of aiming slows directiion change, and/or causes over shooting.