We didn't touch the movement and tracking speed on the Sentinel suit.

As a logi bro with a suit I designed to support heavies especally heavy with hmg's I feel the hmg is compeltly broken.

Things that are drastically needed:

• Higher turn speed for heavies
• Higher movement speed for heavies
• Drastic changes to HMG damage and range
• More slots for heavies (I mean come on, its a giant heavy suit, yet scouts get more module slots...?)
• The complete removal of speed penalty on armor plates (works in Eve, but its a terrible mechanic in an FPS)
• Potentially a decent amount of passive reps on heavy suits as well, at least the armor variants. Bring the Amarr logi bonus to the heavy suit. 1HP/s passive reps +5% bonus to all incoming repair sources (not quite logi bonus there)

thats alot of SP to spend for such a situational suit

1: We haven't seen the other heavy suits yet
2: We haven't seen the other heavy weapons yet
3: Slow down, the game isn't even "launched" yet, and even if you consider open beta, it hasn't even been out a half a year yet.

Yeah, I understand the current frustration. but patience is a virtue, especially for people who play CCP games. lol. Furthermore, they didn't say heavies couldn't lead the charge, just that it wasn't their intended role for the heavy. Granted, I do think it's interesting they would pidgeon-hole the current heavy into such a ... "side role" when all the other classes are relatively versatile. but the name of uprising is Teamwork. if you have a good team, you can dominate. be it a frontline heavy, a rapid attack scout, an assault logi *harfff* or even a good frontline assault.

But if you suck at this game, no amount of EHP or range should change that. if you want more range, try a different gun. not everyone can play the role of the heavy right.. but...

You should carry the dropsuit and weapon, not the other way around.

1: We haven't seen the other heavy suits yet

It's not the range that is the major problem, it's the damage output combined with the accuracy that needs to be looked at. I mean a decrease of 4m is nothing but a 20% downgrade of the base damage might have been a little bit too much. Also the fact that the tracking at close range for the heavy is crap doesn't make it any better. Heavies are not scary anymore and the heavy should be something an assault would want to avoid.

I'm in full agreement with ya TECH-SARGE. The range is not the issue here. the issue is the massive damage nurf combined with the grouping of the rounds at optimal. I try to use the assault HMG to help but seeing as it has the exact damage as a SMG, with a longer range and mag, it's no good as at close range we can't turn to use its damage, and at optimum range while crouched, an AR can shred us before we can do much to the user.

I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG.



The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.

Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better.

Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages!

That's odd.

Is that 20m as seen from the target intel info on-screen? I double-checked the curves like five minutes ago and they're definitely 30m for optimal range.

I'll investigate further.

We didn't touch the movement and tracking speed on the Sentinel suit.

I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG.

Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!)

Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes.

- The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry.
- The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.

The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.

Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better.

Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages!

Please don't take this as me being snarky, but you guys do know that the HMG dispersion get tighter the longer you fire it, right?

plus IMHO heavies were far more fun when you played them as door kickers with the full knowledge you were a priority target and going to die first, but do real damage dying.

Things that are drastically needed:

• Higher turn speed for heavies
• Higher movement speed for heavies
• Drastic changes to HMG damage and range
• More slots for heavies (I mean come on, its a giant heavy suit, yet scouts get more module slots...?)
• The complete removal of speed penalty on armor plates (works in Eve, but its a terrible mechanic in an FPS)
• Potentially a decent amount of passive reps on heavy suits as well, at least the armor variants. Bring the Amarr logi bonus to the heavy suit. 1HP/s passive reps +5% bonus to all incoming repair sources (not quite logi bonus there)

hell yes, i loved that bit, run into a group of enemies with your squad and everyone primaried you as you did insane damage up close. might only get one if they focus fire effectivly, but you go down knowing your assault budies will mop the floor with the enemies blood.


now? everyone ignores you and goes after the AR guy that can actually hurt them at a decent range

yay! somebody commented! does the highlited bit also mean we will be getting our base range put back where it originally started at?

an HMG shouldn't be confined to a defensive role in the way this build has forced it to be. as a base heavy, i find it extremly hard to play defence when the person i am shooting at can move faster than i can move my gun, completly defeats the purpose as i tend to end up dead every time.

and if the sentinal was designed as a guardian role, what are the basic heavies role? as it sucks just as badly at leadin a charge

There is a misconception here,
if they want us to be a CQC defender they need to give us tools to perform that job, these tools are more damage, more turning speed but less range and less walking and sprint speed.
If they want us to be a suppression class, they need to give us more range and more walking and sprint speed but less damage and turning speed, so we can suppress at long range.

The heavy suit right now does not have the appropiate tools to perform his job of a defender because we have short range, low damage, low speed and low turning speed so we are no where an effective class in the role we are suppose to be.

not an effective class at ANYTHING atm, tbh
functioning as a heavy is, to say the least, difficult now.

Played literally a couple matches, but got enough kills and deaths to figure out it's "role".

Basically 1-10m you're main enemy is the shotgun. The HMG is effective in this range, and with concentrated fire, you'll get the kill. I faced Militia Assault all the way up to Proto Suits. Up close the proto assault poses a clear threat, but in most cases a good player would either run away, or kill you.

Shotgun? Allot trickier. Because of the optimal range on the HMG, which the numbers might say is 15m, it feels more like 10m, by the time the shotgun gets in HIS range, it might be too late to take him out. Especially if he's shield tanking.

MD's? Clear winner against HMG's. You can't get close enough, fast enough is basically the problem. The range on the HMG doesn't allow for keeping people's heads down.

Past 10m going into 15m is where things get hazy. At this range it takes ALLOT of bullets to take down Adv suits, even suits that have taken damage. Not because of damage, well tbh a little, but the BULLET SPREAD. Nerfing the range, but not buffing the horrible bullet spread makes it a tripple nerf imo. Dmg, range, and not touching the bullet spread.

15m-20m range, it's more like farting against thunder at this point. If you wanna feel like you're doing something or if someone is really weak, yeah. Spray in the direction and hope you get and assist or better yet a kill.

Now being a heavy myself, i try to be as objective as possible. I'm aware we got a buff in HP, and tbh, it's needed with the amount of bullets required to kill. We go down just as easy with team fire as we did before.. Nothing changed there. I'm also aware we got our prices reduced, but one can argue every class got their prices reduced.

Does the price drop make a difference? My Adv set up is 60k+ ISK. Adv suit + Adv HMG. + complex extenders. If you die more than 3 times, which is VERY LIKELY, your profit margin is slim to none. You can try running cheaper fits, but that means your killing efficiency and your chances of staying alive longer drops. It's looking like a high risk, low reward atm.

ONLY way to make your heavy set up profitable, is to have a Logi player tied around your neck.

Personally, I would like to see a buff in either range, dmg, or bullet spread. The effect of these things put together makes the HMG feels like a toy gun.

People always bring up the argument that HMG are suppose to be used as a supportive role. Well, how can we support with no range? How can we help with low dmg, and how can we keep people's head down with a bullet spread as bad as it is now?

As always, opinions, and arguments for / against are welcomed. Keep the trolling to a minimum please.

agree
dissagree - if u make the heavies move as fast as, lets say, logis, then ure rendering logis obsolete. especially with your idea of *more slots*. heavy is a infantry version of a tank. therefore, should b more slow moving

agree
agree
disagree - dont have a problem with speed penalties with added armor, tbh

agree - dood, passive repair is a must on EVERY suit, imo. even militia.

Wait... a dev actually read our suggestions, and a slight fix is coming?

Tbh, I didn't expect this, but thanks.