DUST Search - HMG Review (as unbiased as possible...I promise :D )

MassiveNine wrote:

Copying and pasting from another thread:

It's pretty pathetic what they've done to the heavy this build. I can't imagine what was going through CCP's head when they decided that nerfing the damage on proto to below standard was a good idea. It also seems they haven't done anything about our horrible bullet spread. The description of the heavy is the exact opposite of what they've done to it. How fair is it that I'm now restricted to sitting on an objective worrying because some shotgun scout might get into my optimal range. I shouldn't have to worry about anyone being in my optimal range, I should just be able to pull the trigger and be done with it. The fact that I even have to worry AT ALL about someone being in my optimal range is... well, a joke. Oh no, that person got to close to me, too bad I can't run away.

I'd also like to add that I shouldn't have to use a forge gun 24/7 to remain proficient. The fact that the forge gun is the only proficient heavy weapon in the game just reinforces the fact that the suit is becoming nothing more than an under-equipped camp machine. They are now useless in what a heavy is supposed to dominate in, CQC.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1410	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:23:00 - [1] - Quote Played literally a couple matches, but got enough kills and deaths to figure out it's "role". Basically 1-10m you're main enemy is the shotgun. The HMG is effective in this range, and with concentrated fire, you'll get the kill. I faced Militia Assault all the way up to Proto Suits. Up close the proto assault poses a clear threat, but in most cases a good player would either run away, or kill you. Shotgun? Allot trickier. Because of the optimal range on the HMG, which the numbers might say is 15m, it feels more like 10m, by the time the shotgun gets in HIS range, it might be too late to take him out. Especially if he's shield tanking. MD's? Clear winner against HMG's. You can't get close enough, fast enough is basically the problem. The range on the HMG doesn't allow for keeping people's heads down. Past 10m going into 15m is where things get hazy. At this range it takes ALLOT of bullets to take down Adv suits, even suits that have taken damage. Not because of damage, well tbh a little, but the BULLET SPREAD. Nerfing the range, but not buffing the horrible bullet spread makes it a tripple nerf imo. Dmg, range, and not touching the bullet spread. 15m-20m range, it's more like farting against thunder at this point. If you wanna feel like you're doing something or if someone is really weak, yeah. Spray in the direction and hope you get and assist or better yet a kill. Now being a heavy myself, i try to be as objective as possible. I'm aware we got a buff in HP, and tbh, it's needed with the amount of bullets required to kill. We go down just as easy with team fire as we did before.. Nothing changed there. I'm also aware we got our prices reduced, but one can argue every class got their prices reduced. Does the price drop make a difference? My Adv set up is 60k+ ISK. Adv suit + Adv HMG. + complex extenders. If you die more than 3 times, which is VERY LIKELY, your profit margin is slim to none. You can try running cheaper fits, but that means your killing efficiency and your chances of staying alive longer drops. It's looking like a high risk, low reward atm. ONLY way to make your heavy set up profitable, is to have a Logi player tied around your neck. Personally, I would like to see a buff in either range, dmg, or bullet spread. The effect of these things put together makes the HMG feels like a toy gun. People always bring up the argument that HMG are suppose to be used as a supportive role. Well, how can we support with no range? How can we help with low dmg, and how can we keep people's head down with a bullet spread as bad as it is now? As always, opinions, and arguments for / against are welcomed. Keep the trolling to a minimum please.
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 279	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:25:00 - [2] - Quote Isn't there a skill to reduce bullet spread?
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1410	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:26:00 - [3] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Isn't there a skill to reduce bullet spread? Not on HMG's It's on Assault and SMG's
HowDidThatTaste Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2405	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:30:00 - [4] - Quote I too have been playing with this build I have my cataluzers to advanced as well this helps with mobility ut still not enough to really close the gap. A new problem is developing is that it is very hard to turn in close quarter combat. I have adjust my settings o 100 but I am getting massively out straifed in my close quarter role. Logies do circles around me. Obviously the range was hit hard but I'm ok with that if that was all that is going on but less damage and poor straife speed on top of the range is making this suit not much fun to play anymore.
RazielJones Algintal Core Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:31:00 - [5] - Quote Damage is fine, the range does need to be looked at. I don't want to be able to snipe people with it but at over 10 meters Red's can take you out with out any fear. Not looking for a massive increase in range, but it really does need something done with it.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1417	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:32:00 - [6] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: I too have been playing with this build I have my cataluzers to advanced as well this helps with mobility ut still not enough to really close the gap. A new problem is developing is that it is very hard to turn in close quarter combat. I have adjust my settings o 100 but I am getting massively out straifed in my close quarter role. Logies do circles around me. Obviously the range was hit hard but I'm ok with that if that was all that is going on but less damage and poor straife speed on top of the range is making this suit not much fun to play anymore. Yea I facepalmed when I saw the speed of strafing, but that's another matter altogether lol. Just trying to give people a view from an HMG user in an honest way.
RazielJones Algintal Core Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:34:00 - [7] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: I too have been playing with this build I have my cataluzers to advanced as well this helps with mobility ut still not enough to really close the gap. A new problem is developing is that it is very hard to turn in close quarter combat. I have adjust my settings o 100 but I am getting massively out straifed in my close quarter role. Logies do circles around me. Obviously the range was hit hard but I'm ok with that if that was all that is going on but less damage and poor straife speed on top of the range is making this suit not much fun to play anymore. Thats it really, slow moving and slow turning which is to be expected but making the HMG a close range weapon on a heavy which is out classed in close by every other Fitting. I don't see the sense in such a heavy nerf to this build.
DS 10 G I A N T EoN. 252	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:34:00 - [8] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Isn't there a skill to reduce bullet spread? ARs and SMGs got that. Once again, we're left out. This game is pointless as a heavy. Your HMG has the range of a shotgun and shoots butterflies and rainbows. The range was nerfed too much and the damage is too low as well. My Boundless HMG with double complex damage mods feels like a pre-Uprising HMG with no sharpshooter or damage mods. It's ridiculous. CCP said they wanted to get the CODboys. What better way than have ARs reign supreme?
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1417	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:35:00 - [9] - Quote RazielJones wrote: Damage is fine, the range does need to be looked at. I don't want to be able to snipe people with it but at over 10 meters Red's can take you out with out any fear. Not looking for a massive increase in range, but it really does need something done with it. The range can be fine, but the bullet spread makes it hard to judge. Same with damage. The damage can be fine, but when your bullets is shooting at and AROUND the target, it's hard to judge what the problem is, and THAT'S where CCP went wrong with the nerfing. The nerfed damage AND range the same time. So what's the problem now? How can you judge progress when small steps is not taken?
Caineghis Beoulve Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 2	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:36:00 - [10] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: I too have been playing with this build I have my cataluzers to advanced as well this helps with mobility ut still not enough to really close the gap. A new problem is developing is that it is very hard to turn in close quarter combat. I have adjust my settings o 100 but I am getting massively out straifed in my close quarter role. Logies do circles around me. Obviously the range was hit hard but I'm ok with that if that was all that is going on but less damage and poor straife speed on top of the range is making this suit not much fun to play anymore. Yea I facepalmed when I saw the speed of strafing, but that's another matter altogether lol. Just trying to give people a view from an HMG user in an honest way. So lance, just by this first look into the heavy, how do you see us in PC? are we going to be useful or make a difference like before?

Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1417	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:40:00 - [11] - Quote Caineghis Beoulve wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: I too have been playing with this build I have my cataluzers to advanced as well this helps with mobility ut still not enough to really close the gap. A new problem is developing is that it is very hard to turn in close quarter combat. I have adjust my settings o 100 but I am getting massively out straifed in my close quarter role. Logies do circles around me. Obviously the range was hit hard but I'm ok with that if that was all that is going on but less damage and poor straife speed on top of the range is making this suit not much fun to play anymore. Yea I facepalmed when I saw the speed of strafing, but that's another matter altogether lol. Just trying to give people a view from an HMG user in an honest way. So lance, just by this first look into the heavy, how do you see us in PC? are we going to be useful or make a difference like before? We need logis strapped around us to have ANY sort of impact against an organized team. The limitations of the HMG makes the role very specific. Camp an objective with cover. Playing a heavy will only be useful on defense when your team's holding the majority of objecitves. It's not a viable attacking strat anymore. Maybe that's what people wanted all along huh. Put heavies on an objective to camp. Simple solution to that? MD's and flux nades.
MassiveNine Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 150	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:41:00 - [12] - Quote Copying and pasting from another thread: It's pretty pathetic what they've done to the heavy this build. I can't imagine what was going through CCP's head when they decided that nerfing the damage on proto to below standard was a good idea. It also seems they haven't done anything about our horrible bullet spread. The description of the heavy is the exact opposite of what they've done to it. How fair is it that I'm now restricted to sitting on an objective worrying because some shotgun scout might get into my optimal range. I shouldn't have to worry about anyone being in my optimal range, I should just be able to pull the trigger and be done with it. The fact that I even have to worry AT ALL about someone being in my optimal range is... well, a joke. Oh no, that person got to close to me, too bad I can't run away. I'd also like to add that I shouldn't have to use a forge gun 24/7 to remain proficient. The fact that the forge gun is the only proficient heavy weapon in the game just reinforces the fact that the suit is becoming nothing more than an under-equipped camp machine. They are now useless in what a heavy is supposed to dominate in, CQC.
Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis League of Infamy 342	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:42:00 - [13] - Quote +1 Great stuff Lance.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1417	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:45:00 - [14] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: Copying and pasting from another thread: It's pretty pathetic what they've done to the heavy this build. I can't imagine what was going through CCP's head when they decided that nerfing the damage on proto to below standard was a good idea. It also seems they haven't done anything about our horrible bullet spread. The description of the heavy is the exact opposite of what they've done to it. How fair is it that I'm now restricted to sitting on an objective worrying because some shotgun scout might get into my optimal range. I shouldn't have to worry about anyone being in my optimal range, I should just be able to pull the trigger and be done with it. The fact that I even have to worry AT ALL about someone being in my optimal range is... well, a joke. Oh no, that person got to close to me, too bad I can't run away. I'd also like to add that I shouldn't have to use a forge gun 24/7 to remain proficient. The fact that the forge gun is the only proficient heavy weapon in the game just reinforces the fact that the suit is becoming nothing more than an under-equipped camp machine. They are now useless in what a heavy is supposed to dominate in, CQC. Yea good post. It is what it is. First game I had was SOOOO frustrating cuz I knew in some cases I shouldn't have died. When a shotgunner gets in your optimal range, it's too late. You can't do anything to keep him out either.
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Unclaimed. 567	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:48:00 - [15] - Quote +1 excellent feedback
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 612	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:51:00 - [16] - Quote What about the reduced scan radius' of all suits? Do you find that's helping you keep off the radar?
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1419	Posted - 2013.05.06 21:52:00 - [17] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: What about the reduced scan radius' of all suits? Do you find that's helping you keep off the radar? I can't tell. I play as though I'm always on everyone's radar
DS 10 G I A N T EoN. 252	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:00:00 - [18] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Isn't there a skill to reduce bullet spread? ARs and SMGs got that. Once again, we're left out. This game is pointless as a heavy. Your HMG has the range of a shotgun and shoots butterflies and rainbows. The range was nerfed too much and the damage is too low as well. My Boundless HMG with double complex damage mods feels like a pre-Uprising HMG with no sharpshooter or damage mods. It's ridiculous. CCP said they wanted to get the CODboys. What better way than have ARs reign supreme?
tastzlike chicken ROGUE SPADES EoN. 68	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:01:00 - [19] - Quote More measured and useful than all the histrionic posts that appeared today. -appreciate your opinion.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3911	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:03:00 - [20] - Quote /me jots this issue down as hands on testing required urgent.

Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1426	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:06:00 - [21] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: /me jots this issue down as hands on testing required urgent. +1 I hope CCP looks at the HMG again. They making allot of Heavies change roles to a more viable one. This is suppose to be a game of variety. I felt sorry for the heavies in the game I was in earlier...all of them went negative...ON A CQC MAP.
xxBIG DIRTYxx D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 6	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:11:00 - [22] - Quote Has anyone played with the 'assault' variant HMG's? MO-4? To compare their range to that of std? I had been carrying one with a complex DM and a submachinegun as cqc backup.. I plan to have a logibro with tool and stick with my squad. No lone wolfing..
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1426	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:11:00 - [23] - Quote xxBIG DIRTYxx wrote: Has anyone played with the 'assault' variant HMG's? MO-4? To compare their range to that of std? I had been carrying one with a complex DM and a submachinegun as cqc backup.. I plan to have a logibro with tool and stick with my squad. No lone wolfing.. I thought about using the Assault version, but I wanted to see how the normal one worked in CQC... After seeing how it performed, I was scared to see the Assault version in action.
MassiveNine Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 153	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:12:00 - [24] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: /me jots this issue down as hands on testing required urgent. +1 I hope CCP looks at the HMG again. They making allot of Heavies change roles to a more viable one. This is suppose to be a game of variety. I felt sorry for the heavies in the game I was in earlier...all of them went negative...ON A CQC MAP. The variety in this game is non-existant. With each patch and update more and more options are being turned useless and it looks like the heavy is on the wayward now. Might as well take them out of the game now, cause we can trust CCP to fix this problem in 6 months maybe. This game really is becoming AR514.
Heavy Breaks Ill Omens EoN. 28	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:16:00 - [25] - Quote Pretty much summed it up Lance. I was going to do this thread but no need. Once I got used to the aim and feel again. I realised it wasn't me that sucked so hard. It was my boundless. I actually might QQ!
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3911	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:17:00 - [26] - Quote I am just saying normally the CPM wouldn't bother with most balance issues unless its broken. From the sounds of it, the HMG is not fun to be shooting ergo thus broken. At least there seems to be no cries of getting shot by something being totally unfun yet. Either way uprising just came out and its going to be a while before bearings are set and feeling of the battlefield is tuned to see things as a whole picture.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1426	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:19:00 - [27] - Quote Heavy Breaks wrote: Pretty much summed it up Lance. I was going to do this thread but no need. Once I got used to the aim and feel again. I realised it wasn't me that sucked so hard. It was my boundless. I actually might QQ! I didn't want to use the boundless... it's not worth it man. I have allot of ISK to spend, but I'm not gonna waste it on something like that. May as well run Adv suits and HMG's and hope you don't die 3-4 times.
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Unclaimed. 567	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:20:00 - [28] - Quote as a heavy, easier to get kills with a FG than an HMG, CCP goofed
Heavy Breaks Ill Omens EoN. 28	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:21:00 - [29] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: xxBIG DIRTYxx wrote: Has anyone played with the 'assault' variant HMG's? MO-4? To compare their range to that of std? I had been carrying one with a complex DM and a submachinegun as cqc backup.. I plan to have a logibro with tool and stick with my squad. No lone wolfing.. I thought about using the Assault version, but I wanted to see how the normal one worked in CQC... After seeing how it performed, I was scared to see the Assault version in action. The assault is awful. Slightly more range, spread and DMG pathetic. First thing I tried.
MassiveNine Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 153	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:22:00 - [30] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am just saying normally the CPM wouldn't bother with most balance issues unless its broken. From the sounds of it, the HMG is not fun to be shooting ergo thus broken. At least there seems to be no cries of getting shot by something being totally unfun yet. Either way uprising just came out and its going to be a while before bearings are set and feeling of the battlefield is tuned to see things as a whole picture. Right, so you're basically agreeing that the heavy is ****** and that we just have to "wait it out." How fair is it that we have to wait for another build just to be able to do something BESIDES armor tanking? How can you talk about the whole picture when CCP is obviously focusing on a single part of it? It's more than just broken, the class has been completely destroyed.



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