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Tiberion Deci
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:36:00 -
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CCP Remnant wrote:That's odd.
Is that 20m as seen from the target intel info on-screen? I double-checked the curves like five minutes ago and they're definitely 30m for optimal range.
I'll investigate further.
I will be uploading my gameplay from the past couple days to youtube soon. Is there a way you guys at CCP could take a look at it? See if everything is working as intended? |
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Posted - 2013.05.08 15:33:00 -
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Drogan Reeth wrote:ChromeBreaker wrote:Drogan Reeth wrote:
Do you realize that in reality anything with a slow turning rate their main weakness is close range? You basically designed a class that has the main advantage of close range dmg and the main weakness of close range because it can't turn. But at the same time they can't hit anything at range. You can kill proto heavy's with miltia scouts and assaults now. They are beyond broken. Not a little bit broken, needs tweeks broken, completly utterly don't use this class, don't waste you sp broken.
They where already lossing to proto assaults pre patch. If you undo the dmg nerf, and undo the range nerf, you would still have to give them a turning rate buff, then MAYBE they would be a usuable class in corp matches at proto level when playing with good fps players.
tbh that would be way too much, and completely unbalanced with everything else. it needs fixing but not to what it was either noone was using proto heavy in corp matches.
Not in PXRXO anyway. But there were proto heavies in the corp battles I played in. KEQ, Seraphim, and a couple others... |
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Posted - 2013.05.08 16:00:00 -
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Gelan Corbaine wrote:If Heavies are intended for defense only why is it our only method or gaining WP's thus SP/ISK is killing people ? Sitting far from the frontlines leads to low WP contribution which leads to slow SP progression .
If this is as intended why does Heavies have the highest Se requirement of all the classes ?
I agree with both of these but guys, focus. We have the Devs attention, lets not waste it by whining and complaining. Thoughtful logical arguments (as mentioned in thread title) devoid of sarcasm/criticism are the way to go!
The problem we seem to be facing is that in order to fulfill the developers idea of the heavy role (point defense) we have to have something (range and damage) that makes us suitible for something else (assault). This also lenda itself to our WP argument wher, since we have no equipment we can only generate wp from killing/hacking/stuff that all other suits can do. I'm not claiming to have the answer on how to fix this right away, but given the state of the game right now I feel that CCP should at least reinstate the HMGs prior stats until a permanent solution is offered.
A parallel example is the state of the logi/assault suits right now. From my understanding most of the logi suits make better assault suits than the assault suits (or maybe just the caldari ones) because the slot layout is similar but there is a higher pg/cpu output for the added equipment slots, so people can use nicer stuff and justleave the equipment slots empty. Nothing stops them from doing that and the logi is mow playing outside its role as medic (as happened in the last build).
TL; DR: Focus! No complaining, facts only! Logis are playimg outside their role right now and its not "hurting" the gameplay in a serious manner.
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Posted - 2013.05.08 16:05:00 -
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Terarrim wrote:
After testing for days this is my feedback on the hmg from a logi bro point of view who has been hybrid support/offence logi since closed beta.
Thank you for the constructive addition to this thread feom another important point of view. :) |
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Posted - 2013.05.08 18:00:00 -
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Superhero Rawdon wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Things that are drastically needed:
- Higher turn speed for heavies
- Higher movement speed for heavies
- Drastic changes to HMG damage and range
- More slots for heavies (I mean come on, its a giant heavy suit, yet scouts get more module slots...?)
- The complete removal of speed penalty on armor plates (works in Eve, but its a terrible mechanic in an FPS)
- Potentially a decent amount of passive reps on heavy suits as well, at least the armor variants. Bring the Amarr logi bonus to the heavy suit. 1HP/s passive reps +5% bonus to all incoming repair sources (not quite logi bonus there)
agree dissagree - if u make the heavies move as fast as, lets say, logis, then ure rendering logis obsolete. especially with your idea of *more slots*. heavy is a infantry version of a tank. therefore, should b more slow moving agree agree disagree - dont have a problem with speed penalties with added armor, tbh agree - dood, passive repair is a must on EVERY suit, imo. even militia.
With regards to suoerhero rawdon:
Agree
Disagree. Making heavies faster doesn't obsolete logis unless we can carry our own equipment too.
Agree
Agree
Agree, but smaller penalties. We are slow enough already :(
Agree.
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Posted - 2013.05.08 20:26:00 -
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Iron Wolf Saber wrote:After playing around with CCP Remnant's numbers I have come to the conclusion that the effective kill range of the HMG is nowhere near 30meters but its actually at 10meters.
Also the reason why the old HMG was so effective at defense because it was a 'Zone of Control' weapon.
Essentially I drew a 20-30 meter circle around me and anything getting into that circle is going to regret doing so.
How did you get tyese numbers? Just in game observation? I'm curious because this was going to be my big focus for the next few days- research and experimentation
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Posted - 2013.05.08 20:31:00 -
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EnIgMa99 wrote:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=761478#post761478 mass driver doesnt work injectors dont work people dont render range is crap on all guns.
Well after reading this your alliance name seems all too appropriate |
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:45:00 -
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I would like to say I've had limited success with the burst hmg variants in this build. The range is still awful and they are more difficult to use but if you do manage to catch someone inside 15-20m with a full burst you can get through most shields and half of health with one burst.
Also managed to do some basic evaluations yesterday. If you go to twitch.tv/iceberglives and look at my broadcast from yesterday I was doing some range evaluations. I haven't cut the clips into games yet but if you want to watch you are more than welxome to. Maybe you wikl see something that will help you out that you can share with the rest of us. |
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:48:00 -
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Muzodor wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:martinofski wrote:
I think with the current maps design, we should have received another race for the heavy, a shield, fast version for "running" around and turning at reasonnable speeds so we can track the guy running and jumping in minmatar logi using their 4high,4low,4equip setup and duvolles.
This patch was indead bad for the heavys since you either use what is available and run the sentinel that you don't want, or you do like me and don't upgrade the dropsuit and use the militia one to save your SP.
Yeah... right now only the Amarr heavy frame model is complete. In Uprising we've started pushing all the suits more into specific race profiles, but of course when you're missing 75% of the other frame options you're bound to have some balance holes. The Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente heavy frames are coming, but not as soon as we'd all like. To that point though, how would you guys like us to approach that? Would you want Type-IIs and more sidegrade variants to tide you over until the other suits come online? (Even knowing that we'll probably retire them once the others arrive?) Is it possible to simply use the Amarr heavy model but apply the racial stats and slot layouts you might already have planned? Including the required racial skills to train them so people are not wasting SP on Amarr heavy when they will switch to another race later. Leave out the Racial Sentinel variants, just go to the Heavy Basic proto level of each race. I think this would help CCP get early feedback and usage statistics on each race's heavy suits. Giving you the option to tweak the suits and bonuses before adding them to the game. You could even write a neat lore story about vicious corporate espionage resulting from the arms race created by the Immortal mercs. "Blah blah blah stolen Amarr heavy BPOs blah blah blah reversed engineered by each race blah blah provide good foundation to build racial suits blah." You could even use this same technique to add additional racial heavy weapons with the suits. Use the HMG model paint it gold use the laserrifle beam effect and let us test that Heavy Pulse Gatling Lase you guys are working on.. you are working on that right? RIGHT?!? (^assuming coding a game is easy^)
I think this is a great idea!
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:37:00 -
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martinofski wrote:Caineghis Beoulve wrote:We are forgetting the most important part here, is that the HMG is not fixed, we need the HMG to be able to perform our job, be it as a defender or as an attacker.
We need the HMG restored to Chromosome stats, that was really balanced Would need to be rebalanced concidering all other weapon got changed. Wouldn't bet as balanced as it was if exactly as before. But, yes Let focus on HMG. Maybe we should pull some numbers to help the devs. I will look at some stuff tonight and see if I can post something. Testing with blue mate let say for distances.
I thought the chromosone stats were fine. Non hmg users just didn't realize the range was "ridiculous" because all heavies worth their salt HAD to get sharpshooter to at least level 8 to be worth anything because that's what all the light weapon users did. It was an arms race that was fair (except lasers, sorry), but we got thw shortest end of the stick when everything got rebalanced. |
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:52:00 -
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CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:Tiberion Deci wrote:martinofski wrote:Caineghis Beoulve wrote:We are forgetting the most important part here, is that the HMG is not fixed, we need the HMG to be able to perform our job, be it as a defender or as an attacker.
We need the HMG restored to Chromosome stats, that was really balanced Would need to be rebalanced concidering all other weapon got changed. Wouldn't bet as balanced as it was if exactly as before. But, yes Let focus on HMG. Maybe we should pull some numbers to help the devs. I will look at some stuff tonight and see if I can post something. Testing with blue mate let say for distances. I thought the chromosone stats were fine. Non hmg users just didn't realize the range was "ridiculous" because all heavies worth their salt HAD to get sharpshooter to at least level 8 to be worth anything because that's what all the light weapon users did. It was an arms race that was fair (except lasers, sorry), but we got thw shortest end of the stick when everything got rebalanced. no even then it wasnt fair.. .heavy was 3x/6x vs light weapons at 2x/5x so not only did we get sh@t on by the constant QQ of our range, but no one aside from us ever acknowledged that it cost us a fair amount more to have those similar ranges. one of the biggest things from before. now the SP cost seems balanced at least, now to balance the in game result
I totally agree the sp difference was blatantly unfair and pointed it out many times in the forums. But the HMG itself was fine (apart from the difference in cost). It was a balanced weapon. Now its is pretty useless...
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Posted - 2013.05.09 21:24:00 -
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Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:So in total it was a 20% dmg nerf.
%22.5 :(
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