I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG.

Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!)

Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes.

- The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry.
- The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.

The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.

Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better.

Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages!

The CCP guy said it all. That's their intention of how heavies should work. It's a sad truth but oh well.

1: We haven't seen the other heavy suits yet
2: We haven't seen the other heavy weapons yet
3: Slow down, the game isn't even "launched" yet, and even if you consider open beta, it hasn't even been out a half a year yet.

Yeah, I understand the current frustration. but patience is a virtue, especially for people who play CCP games. lol. Furthermore, they didn't say heavies couldn't lead the charge, just that it wasn't their intended role for the heavy. Granted, I do think it's interesting they would pidgeon-hole the current heavy into such a ... "side role" when all the other classes are relatively versatile. but the name of uprising is Teamwork. if you have a good team, you can dominate. be it a frontline heavy, a rapid attack scout, an assault logi *harfff* or even a good frontline assault.

But if you suck at this game, no amount of EHP or range should change that. if you want more range, try a different gun. not everyone can play the role of the heavy right.. but...

You should carry the dropsuit and weapon, not the other way around.

No, it isn't. At close range its terrible.

The problem you guys are having is that you have a very flawed sense of what is long range and what is short range. The AR currently is of the longest range weapons in the game, but the problem is that its actually incredibly short range by FPS standards. The HMG is even shorter range, which makes it feel worthless.

Furthermore, if the sentinel is designed as a point defense weapon platform, what is going to stop a person from simply approaching a point outside of my range and killing me? That's exactly what happens right now. I can't run them down and get them in my optimal to counter-attack because im too slow and they can just out-kite me by backpeddling.

The deterrent from making an HMG guy good at front line assaulting shouldn't be his range limitation, JUST HIS MOVEMENT. If I can't keep up with the rest of my crew, they can get from point to point faster and are therefore better for the role. By restricting my range you do not do this -- you simply make it impossible for me to fire back on the enemy trying to kill me.

Or I get killed by a super fast strafing shotgun scout who I cannot turn in time to shoot, thanks to the suits pathetic turning ability. In fact, the only thing a sentinel CAN stop is another heavy who is trying to assault the point solo which, according to you, are not even intended to exist.

So a sentinel cannot fulfill the role you have established for it in any capacity whatsoever, nor can it assault other points with proficiency.

By crippling my movement you also make me more vulnerable to any weapon with a splash radius, which increases the difficulty in assaulting a point. Counter-measures against a front-line heavy already exist, we don't need range penalties on top of that.



With all due respect, replace it with a flame thrower. That's what it is. HMG's do not have this drawback in any game.

If it's suddenly viable for a different role overnight then fine, but when you put implement falloff for our gun you're going to be putting it in for other guns as well, which keeps the problem exactly the same.

Agreed. Maps are clearly designed with long range engagements in mind, yet weapons are designed for CQC only. Its terrible.

The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range.

I just want to reiterate that the concept of range limitation on a weapon is NOT a basis or determining a weapon's use. As an example, consider that in MANY shooting games, a pistol can hit someone from the other side of the map, however doing so is insanely difficult - but NOT due to a range cap.

It's other attributes of a weapon that CCP needs to look at - gun handling, spread, vision obstruction from the weapon's size and sights, combinations of bursts and kick, volume of the gun - stealthy versus cannon loud. And this is how my experience with the HMG in the old build, and the new one pans out - a Shotgun on any other suit is WAY more effective within the range that has been put on the HMG.

Yeah... right now only the Amarr heavy frame model is complete. In Uprising we've started pushing all the suits more into specific race profiles, but of course when you're missing 75% of the other frame options you're bound to have some balance holes. The Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente heavy frames are coming, but not as soon as we'd all like.

To that point though, how would you guys like us to approach that? Would you want Type-IIs and more sidegrade variants to tide you over until the other suits come online? (Even knowing that we'll probably retire them once the others arrive?)

Dont worry jiraiya, i keep liking all the possible solution that could help the HMG restore its glory, i also put an idea myself which i quote below.

Just played a game where there was Radar from PFBHz and he killed my 1300hp heavy in 2 hitts, with nova knifes... not like i didn't see him coming.

Not sure I can do close to that with my HMG lol

Let's look at what the Dev said:



It sounds like he was looking at the Damage value on HMG's based on Chromosome's Weaponry lvl 5, which was needed to get HMG's.

So that right there added 10% dmg to the base dmg of HMG's. So instead of taking away 10% (weaponry 5) it looks like he took away 10% from the base value (without weaponry 5)

So in total it was a 20% dmg nerf.

i liked being a lumbering heavy, list i could hit **** back then

The stats make it a lumbering bruiser now, dying at long range. Which is probably the only role for heavy that's actually balanced and still fun to play. (Mid-long range heavy is what was broken in the last build.)

So, all honesty here:

If they removed the "disappearing bullets" mechanic, they're probably going to mess with shot dispersion and make it kick like a mule to the point that HMG is only really useful at the current ranges anyway.

I don't see longer-range HMG Heavy coming back anytime soon, even with everything CCP said being implemented. But, my crystal ball is as good as yours, so we'll have to wait and see. I'm happy with the changes for now.

With the exception of the Assault HMG, it handles like a flame thrower currently.

That said, it's a damn effective flame thrower. Not the way I want it balanced, but I can't deny the results it yields...