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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1478
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Posted - 2013.05.08 18:29:00 -
[301] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Wait... a dev actually read our suggestions, and a slight fix is coming? Tbh, I didn't expect this, but thanks. i know right? he must be new to CCP
I'm really happy that the HMG is getting tweaked though. Thanks to all the heavies that posted, and thanks to all the trolls for the free bumps
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General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
595
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Posted - 2013.05.08 18:34:00 -
[302] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:General Tiberius1 wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Wait... a dev actually read our suggestions, and a slight fix is coming? Tbh, I didn't expect this, but thanks. i know right? he must be new to CCP I'm really happy that the HMG is getting tweaked though. Thanks to all the heavies that posted, and thanks to all the trolls for the free bumps
lol, so do i get a double like then? |
Rynx Sinfar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
574
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 18:47:00 -
[303] - Quote
Can we get armor plating like the one on Remnant's balls for wading into this thread? |
Dagon Cthulhu Clone
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 18:50:00 -
[304] - Quote
first time HMG user here so i cant go off experience with the old HMGs, but im loving the **** outa this thing.
cant believe i never tried it before, so what i will say is i thought the heavy weapons would be ballanced like large Vs small guns in eve ie longer range and damage with worse player rotation as its downside so that peeps could close the gap and get inside your crap turn speed.
which in turn would mean you would need other people to watch your back and flanks.
just my 10 bob on the situation, fatman 4 life now though whateva happens |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
597
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Posted - 2013.05.08 19:06:00 -
[305] - Quote
Rynx Sinfar wrote:Can we get armor plating like the one on Remnant's balls for wading into this thread?
that got you a like |
Heavy Breaks
Ill Omens EoN.
40
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Posted - 2013.05.08 19:08:00 -
[306] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:Rynx Sinfar wrote:Can we get armor plating like the one on Remnant's balls for wading into this thread? that got you a like
Make that 2. I lol'd |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
599
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Posted - 2013.05.08 19:11:00 -
[307] - Quote
also, didn't i read something about "balancing game for future weapons"
what kind of stupid is that? balance the game for what you gave us, and re-do it when you introduce the new stuff |
TheSprayNPray2
Red Star. EoN.
9
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Posted - 2013.05.08 19:12:00 -
[308] - Quote
Dagon Cthulhu Clone wrote:first time HMG user here so i cant go off experience with the old HMGs, but im loving the **** outa this thing. cant believe i never tried it before, so what i will say is i thought the heavy weapons would be ballanced like large Vs small guns in eve ie longer range and damage with worse player rotation as its downside so that peeps could close the gap and get inside your crap turn speed. which in turn would mean you would need other people to watch your back and flanks. just my 10 bob on the situation, fatman 4 life now though whateva happens
you really missed out my friend. |
Rynx Sinfar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
576
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 19:18:00 -
[309] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:also, didn't i read something about "balancing game for future weapons"
what kind of stupid is that? balance the game for what you gave us, and re-do it when you introduce the new stuff
People don't seem to be too pleased at the concept of things they speced into changing. If people specced into Amarr Sentinel when it was generic, then they changed it to balance with new suits they released, people would be pretty peeved. Just refunding when things get changed also doesn't work because what if now your whole build is ruined? Also why does frank get a respec when I regret my decisions with a medium frame? That gallante heavy looks so nice now and I would totally have gone into that if it was already there.
It's difficult because you can't play favorites if you dole out something, you can't modify something someone made decisions based on either. |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
332
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 19:22:00 -
[310] - Quote
CCP Remnant wrote:I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG. Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!) Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes. - The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry. - The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.
No, it isn't. At close range its terrible.
The problem you guys are having is that you have a very flawed sense of what is long range and what is short range. The AR currently is of the longest range weapons in the game, but the problem is that its actually incredibly short range by FPS standards. The HMG is even shorter range, which makes it feel worthless.
Furthermore, if the sentinel is designed as a point defense weapon platform, what is going to stop a person from simply approaching a point outside of my range and killing me? That's exactly what happens right now. I can't run them down and get them in my optimal to counter-attack because im too slow and they can just out-kite me by backpeddling.
The deterrent from making an HMG guy good at front line assaulting shouldn't be his range limitation, JUST HIS MOVEMENT. If I can't keep up with the rest of my crew, they can get from point to point faster and are therefore better for the role. By restricting my range you do not do this -- you simply make it impossible for me to fire back on the enemy trying to kill me.
By crippling my movement you also make me more vulnerable to any weapon with a splash radius, which increases the difficulty in assaulting a point. Counter-measures against a front-line heavy already exist, we don't need range penalties on top of that.
Quote: The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.
With all due respect, replace it with a flame thrower. That's what it is. HMG's do not have this drawback in any game.
If it's suddenly viable for a different role overnight then fine, but when you put implement falloff for our gun you're going to be putting it in for other guns as well, which keeps the problem exactly the same. |
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General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
599
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 19:38:00 -
[311] - Quote
bump |
Dis Cord
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 19:45:00 -
[312] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG. Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!) Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes. - The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry. - The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe. No, it isn't. At close range its terrible. The problem you guys are having is that you have a very flawed sense of what is long range and what is short range. The AR currently is of the longest range weapons in the game, but the problem is that its actually incredibly short range by FPS standards. The HMG is even shorter range, which makes it feel worthless. Furthermore, if the sentinel is designed as a point defense weapon platform, what is going to stop a person from simply approaching a point outside of my range and killing me? That's exactly what happens right now. I can't run them down and get them in my optimal to counter-attack because im too slow and they can just out-kite me by backpeddling. The deterrent from making an HMG guy good at front line assaulting shouldn't be his range limitation, JUST HIS MOVEMENT. If I can't keep up with the rest of my crew, they can get from point to point faster and are therefore better for the role. By restricting my range you do not do this -- you simply make it impossible for me to fire back on the enemy trying to kill me. Or I get killed by a super fast strafing shotgun scout who I cannot turn in time to shoot, thanks to the suits pathetic turning ability. In fact, the only thing a sentinel CAN stop is another heavy who is trying to assault the point solo which, according to you, are not even intended to exist. So a sentinel cannot fulfill the role you have established for it in any capacity whatsoever, nor can it assault other points with proficiency. By crippling my movement you also make me more vulnerable to any weapon with a splash radius, which increases the difficulty in assaulting a point. Counter-measures against a front-line heavy already exist, we don't need range penalties on top of that. Quote: The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible. With all due respect, replace it with a flame thrower. That's what it is. HMG's do not have this drawback in any game. If it's suddenly viable for a different role overnight then fine, but when you put implement falloff for our gun you're going to be putting it in for other guns as well, which keeps the problem exactly the same.
Very well said. The concept of range in this game is unlike any other, and it simply doesn't work.
Imagine when we have even bigger maps and battles, and we still have guns that are only effective over the range of the pitchers mound to home plate (90ft ~ 30m)??? Wtf.
Solution: Shameless Plug
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Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
335
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 19:51:00 -
[313] - Quote
It's like Dust is trying to justify its arena-shooter short range combat by giving it high HP, but then they make the maps too big for that to function.
Right now the only game with even remotely comparable combat is Halo. The maps in Halo are way smaller and yet the weapon ranges are still several times what they are in Dust. It makes no sense whatsoever.
Dust shooting mechanics do not work, period.
CCP needs to stop pushing it, admit they screwed up, and fix the ranges. |
DeadlyAztec11
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
216
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 19:53:00 -
[314] - Quote
CCP Remnant wrote:I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG. Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!) Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes. - The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry. - The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe. The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible. Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better. Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages!
Please make this a sticky, damn it!
Make it read - 'CCP's Official Stance on the HMG Nerf'
Make it so #1-¬
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ZDub 303
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 19:56:00 -
[315] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:It's like Dust is trying to justify its arena-shooter short range combat by giving it high HP, but then they make the maps too big for that to function.
Right now the only game with even remotely comparable combat is Halo. The maps in Halo are way smaller and yet the weapon ranges are still several times what they are in Dust. It makes no sense whatsoever.
Dust shooting mechanics do not work, period.
CCP needs to stop pushing it, admit they screwed up, and fix the ranges.
Agreed. Maps are clearly designed with long range engagements in mind, yet weapons are designed for CQC only. Its terrible. |
Dis Cord
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:04:00 -
[316] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:It's like Dust is trying to justify its arena-shooter short range combat by giving it high HP, but then they make the maps too big for that to function.
Right now the only game with even remotely comparable combat is Halo. The maps in Halo are way smaller and yet the weapon ranges are still several times what they are in Dust. It makes no sense whatsoever.
Dust shooting mechanics do not work, period.
CCP needs to stop pushing it, admit they screwed up, and fix the ranges. Agreed. Maps are clearly designed with long range engagements in mind, yet weapons are designed for CQC only. Its terrible.
That's generous Dub. Pro NFL QB can easily out-range heavy as CCP would like to see it.
CCP Remnant wrote: The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range.
|
Flor Valentine
The Phoenix Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:07:00 -
[317] - Quote
WhataguyTTU wrote:WhataguyTTU wrote:OK, Heavies are fine to the average VET I have not had too much additional troubles pwn'in faces as before uprising. EXCEPT the stupid slow turning speed. Now when scouts get in my face I **** my pants as I try to keep up with them (maxed sensitivty). This was originally boner city as ne one within 10meters would die in less then 2 seconds. Heavies can no longer show off their dancing skills with strafing, BOOO! Aside from that, heavies are still quite formidable. Ya we got a nerf but so did everything else practically.
I will say that forges guns are coming out more often than they used to. 75% of the time I would rock HMG and melt faces, now role has almost switched with the forge gun. HMG can still poop in peoples mouths (within its new range) you just need to be more accurate. See what happens when you hit someone on the dot of your reticle with a Burst machine gun (I was getting 1 shot burst last night, on ADV suits!). HMG can no longer be utilized as spray and pray, the DMG just isn't there.
NOW for newberts starting out in the game, they will ultimately get pwnd. Its almost not worth speccing heavy unless you have good amount of SP already. (~6mil sp). As a 1012eHP PROTObear, I am already having some trouble keeping up with top end assualt/logi players in advanced suits. There is no incentive for newbies to play heavy currently, without a CCP hotfix that will never come, the heavy population will plummet.
This game is a hard game to commit to with all its current trouble and bugs, but ultimately needs a bigger player base so that CCP wont be so desperate to empty our wallets and might be able to budget a bigger/better team for development. NOOBS are super frustrating, but are necessary for our beloved game to thrive.
Nonetheless we are ultimately gambling that this game with be amazing 6months-1yr down the road. So really, ENOUGH QQ MORE PEW PEW. If you can no longer stand this game after a couple weeks into this Uprising build then find another game, the constant bitching and whining does not make our game better.
SIDENOTE: Ever since Uprising came out, my PS3 no longer suffer constant hard freezes (w/ PS3s IP set in DMZ in router). I used to freezing everything ******* game and hadn't hit cap in the past two weeks. Lots of homos like me have this trouble stil, try this DMZ option if you have done the PS3's restore database and file system, unistall/restal dust clientl, game data deletion.....etc.
I have always thought the Forge Gun was a great support class. Stay behind the vanguard and blast away. When you wield the HMG was more of a lead the charge attack.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
3975
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:09:00 -
[318] - Quote
After playing around with CCP Remnant's numbers I have come to the conclusion that the effective kill range of the HMG is nowhere near 30meters but its actually at 10meters.
Also the reason why the old HMG was so effective at defense because it was a 'Zone of Control' weapon.
Essentially I drew a 20-30 meter circle around me and anything getting into that circle is going to regret doing so. |
Rynx Sinfar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
578
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:10:00 -
[319] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote: No, it isn't. At close range its terrible.
I currently kill reliably in 1v2 scenarios against adv/proto suits. Last night I had multiple games in a full corp squad against good corps and had reliable luck killing 2 enemies at close range and still being in okay shape (sometimes better). This was with Basic Heavy Frame and Basic HMG. Data drawing from ~7-8 games but decent fighters on both sides and a ton of proto users.
I killed a proto heavy with a toxin which was funny (in my basic heavy suit) but he started at lower health.
Current fitting Complex Damage, basic plate, complex repper, hmg/mh-82/assault hmg, toxin, std locus.
I also have been flanking enemies more because the fight lasts long enough to reach if I am 1 second away. I've been killstealing a lot as a result.
I've also had multiple instances of enemies flanking large groups shooting at me (me ducking a lot) who pushed them back because oh crap guy there. I think push forward into their space and round a corner with a wave. 3 enemies pushes it in my gear and I have to run, 4 and I need to gtfo faster. 2 enemies I take both. |
Rynx Sinfar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
578
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:11:00 -
[320] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:After playing around with CCP Remnant's numbers I have come to the conclusion that the effective kill range of the HMG is nowhere near 30meters but its actually at 10meters.
Also the reason why the old HMG was so effective at defense because it was a 'Zone of Control' weapon.
Essentially I drew a 20-30 meter circle around me and anything getting into that circle is going to regret doing so.
I'd appreciate a scientific breakdown or images if possible. phone shots accepted. |
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General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
599
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:20:00 -
[321] - Quote
bump |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
599
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:24:00 -
[322] - Quote
Rynx Sinfar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:After playing around with CCP Remnant's numbers I have come to the conclusion that the effective kill range of the HMG is nowhere near 30meters but its actually at 10meters.
Also the reason why the old HMG was so effective at defense because it was a 'Zone of Control' weapon.
Essentially I drew a 20-30 meter circle around me and anything getting into that circle is going to regret doing so. I'd appreciate a scientific breakdown or images if possible. phone shots accepted.
TEN METERS that's shot gun range!
that is HORRID!
oh please let there be a de-nerf by the 14th |
Tiberion Deci
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
125
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:26:00 -
[323] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:After playing around with CCP Remnant's numbers I have come to the conclusion that the effective kill range of the HMG is nowhere near 30meters but its actually at 10meters.
Also the reason why the old HMG was so effective at defense because it was a 'Zone of Control' weapon.
Essentially I drew a 20-30 meter circle around me and anything getting into that circle is going to regret doing so.
How did you get tyese numbers? Just in game observation? I'm curious because this was going to be my big focus for the next few days- research and experimentation
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EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
278
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:29:00 -
[324] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=761478#post761478 mass driver doesnt work injectors dont work people dont render range is crap on all guns. |
Tiberion Deci
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
126
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:31:00 -
[325] - Quote
EnIgMa99 wrote:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=761478#post761478 mass driver doesnt work injectors dont work people dont render range is crap on all guns.
Well after reading this your alliance name seems all too appropriate |
J Lav
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
59
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:39:00 -
[326] - Quote
I just want to reiterate that the concept of range limitation on a weapon is NOT a basis or determining a weapon's use. As an example, consider that in MANY shooting games, a pistol can hit someone from the other side of the map, however doing so is insanely difficult - but NOT due to a range cap.
It's other attributes of a weapon that CCP needs to look at - gun handling, spread, vision obstruction from the weapon's size and sights, combinations of bursts and kick, volume of the gun - stealthy versus cannon loud. And this is how my experience with the HMG in the old build, and the new one pans out - a Shotgun on any other suit is WAY more effective within the range that has been put on the HMG. |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
339
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:42:00 -
[327] - Quote
J Lav wrote:I just want to reiterate that the concept of range limitation on a weapon is NOT a basis or determining a weapon's use. As an example, consider that in MANY shooting games, a pistol can hit someone from the other side of the map, however doing so is insanely difficult - but NOT due to a range cap.
It's other attributes of a weapon that CCP needs to look at - gun handling, spread, vision obstruction from the weapon's size and sights, combinations of bursts and kick, volume of the gun - stealthy versus cannon loud. And this is how my experience with the HMG in the old build, and the new one pans out - a Shotgun on any other suit is WAY more effective within the range that has been put on the HMG.
This a thousand times.
Cutting off weapon range is the sharp, mathematical answer to a problem that only a dev who does not play FPS at all would come up with.
And it's the worst answer by far. |
Rynx Sinfar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
580
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:45:00 -
[328] - Quote
Rynx Sinfar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:After playing around with CCP Remnant's numbers I have come to the conclusion that the effective kill range of the HMG is nowhere near 30meters but its actually at 10meters.
Also the reason why the old HMG was so effective at defense because it was a 'Zone of Control' weapon.
Essentially I drew a 20-30 meter circle around me and anything getting into that circle is going to regret doing so. I'd appreciate a scientific breakdown or images if possible. phone shots accepted.
also I'd like to know if your saying this info is incorrect -> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40886&find=unread
|
Dis Cord
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:49:00 -
[329] - Quote
J Lav wrote:I just want to reiterate that the concept of range limitation on a weapon is NOT a basis or determining a weapon's use. As an example, consider that in MANY shooting games, a pistol can hit someone from the other side of the map, however doing so is insanely difficult - but NOT due to a range cap.
It's other attributes of a weapon that CCP needs to look at - gun handling, spread, vision obstruction from the weapon's size and sights, combinations of bursts and kick, volume of the gun - stealthy versus cannon loud. And this is how my experience with the HMG in the old build, and the new one pans out - a Shotgun on any other suit is WAY more effective within the range that has been put on the HMG.
Exactly. |
Rynx Sinfar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
580
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:50:00 -
[330] - Quote
J Lav wrote:I just want to reiterate that the concept of range limitation on a weapon is NOT a basis or determining a weapon's use. As an example, consider that in MANY shooting games, a pistol can hit someone from the other side of the map, however doing so is insanely difficult - but NOT due to a range cap.
It's other attributes of a weapon that CCP needs to look at - gun handling, spread, vision obstruction from the weapon's size and sights, combinations of bursts and kick, volume of the gun - stealthy versus cannon loud. And this is how my experience with the HMG in the old build, and the new one pans out - a Shotgun on any other suit is WAY more effective within the range that has been put on the HMG.
Fun fact: In America's Army (original release, not sure about now) you could use a m203 underbarrel grenade launcher. Players practiced and learned to fire it from spawn (was CS style where everyone spawns once, game resets on death) and hit where the enemy would be at that time assuming everyone started running as soon as possible. You could usually get 2-3 kills against teams of 6-7. Sometimes more. The particular map I'm thinking of would take probably 20-30 seconds to sprint across. If something can be learned or achieved, it will be with a large enough pool of people. |
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