This a thousand times.

Cutting off weapon range is the sharp, mathematical answer to a problem that only a dev who does not play FPS at all would come up with.

And it's the worst answer by far.

also I'd like to know if your saying this info is incorrect -> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40886&find=unread

I'm sure he's not referring to optimal range but the range where the HMG is deadly. This range can be quite a lot shorter than 30m but it is also quite situational. A guy rushing towards you with you being in an elevated position can easily be wiped out around the 30m range if they don't dodge.

I agree that the effective kill range is a lot shorter than the optimal range but it also relates to spread of bullets and so on.

Basically I set out with the HMG fit and started engaging people starting as far as 50 meters away and observe the suit I am shooting. the type of tank it was likely going to have and the effect on the HP and I tried to optimize the amount of fire on the target via aiming as dead center as possible and allowing the HMG to fully spin up and get to 'peak' accuracy.

At 50, 45, 40, 35, and 30 meters (based on readout) the damage was so abysmal some target tanks where regenerating under fire. This is pretty consistent after about 40 engagements with the gun.

I am having the hard time getting people in the 25-20-15 meter ranges though or staying alive at those ranges to test long enough to get results. However at 10 meters I can see the effect fully. It would seem at 10 meters is most optimal damage throughput though based on damage amount and damage application. At 5 or less for some reason the damage dips further in terms of application against a variety of targets, including light suits.

Basically I set out with the HMG fit and started engaging people starting as far as 50 meters away and observe the suit I am shooting. the type of tank it was likely going to have and the effect on the HP and I tried to optimize the amount of fire on the target via aiming as dead center as possible and allowing the HMG to fully spin up and get to 'peak' accuracy.

At 50, 45, 40, 35, and 30 meters (based on readout) the damage was so abysmal some target tanks where regenerating under fire. This is pretty consistent after about 40 engagements with the gun.

I am having the hard time getting people in the 25-20-15 meter ranges though or staying alive at those ranges to test long enough to get results. However at 10 meters I can see the effect fully. It would seem at 10 meters is most optimal damage throughput though based on damage amount and damage application. At 5 or less for some reason the damage dips further in terms of application against a variety of targets, including light suits.

So we can all basically agree that there is about a 5 meter junction where our gun actually performs its job "decent".

Anything closer and it can't track, anything further away and it can't hurt the enemy.

And to add insult to injury, because of our lack of mobility we cannot force the enemy to engage us within this 5 meter area.

Sounds like an epic design flaw.

So we can all basically agree that there is about a 5 meter junction where our gun actually performs its job "decent".

Anything closer and it can't track, anything further away and it can't hurt the enemy.

And to add insult to injury, because of our lack of mobility we cannot force the enemy to engage us within this 5 meter area.

Sounds like an epic design flaw.

Well I just verified a silly bug on the mass driver. The animation doesn't match what was really happening.

the whole "disappearing rounds" bit?

I think they need to hire people who actually know how to play first person shooters.

The vision they have for the HMG is terrible. It's closer to what a flame thrower should be, and even then a flame thrower usually has additional damage properties attached to it in order to make up for its ****** range.

And most flame-throwers i know run the high risk of catching the user on fire when an ignited target hugs them.

And most flame-throwers i know run the high risk of catching the user on fire when an ignited target hugs them.

Excellent point. I'd forgotten that they were being buffed by the blanket bonus to all weapon damage given by the weaponry skill.

And most flame-throwers i know run the high risk of catching the user on fire when an ignited target hugs them.

We don't even have flame throwers yet and you EvE players are already trying to nerf them.

We don't even have flame throwers yet and you EvE players are already trying to nerf them.

Please don't take this as me being snarky, but you guys do know that the HMG dispersion get tighter the longer you fire it, right?

Have you guys considered that maybe the heavy class isn't finished yet? That maybe JUST MAYBE one of three other race variant suits is supposed to turn the heavy into a "gunner" that will have a bonus to range in some way, while this one is supposed to be the bullet sponge?

Have you guys considered that maybe the heavy class isn't finished yet? That maybe JUST MAYBE one of three other race variant suits is supposed to turn the heavy into a "gunner" that will have a bonus to range in some way, while this one is supposed to be the bullet sponge?

I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG.

Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!)

Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes.

- The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry.
- The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.

The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.

Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better.

Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages!