We are also planning to introduce Matchmaking improvemtns that will take controller input into account.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744

Balance the max mouse turn speed to be the equivalent of max DS3 speed, but do not separate by controller type. You will destroy the game community. Fix the balance between the control schemes but do not go down this path.

Didn't all the KB/M people QQ when their turn speed was reduced once though?

The way I see it both sides will NEVER agree on a balance. Because each side will always be bias to their side.

But I honestly don't see separating the 2 would work at all.

Should have just made this game DS3 only.... Would have squashed the debate there >.> (I mean honestly it's the reason most console games don't allow KB/M support)

I really want to try my kbm with dust. Ive got a really nice mouse too. Unfortunately my living room is very not kmb setup friendly...

On topic though, is the gap really that large? I use a pad rigjt now and I'm a decent player, cant personally tell when someone is using kbm.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744

Do not separate by controller type; you will destroy the game community.

I apologize in advance for being a grammarstapo, but each side will always be biased not 'bias'. If you have a bias, you are biased.

Sorry again, it's a really common error in video game communities for some reason and it drives me up the wall.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744

Do not separate by controller type; you will destroy the game community.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744

Do not separate by controller type; you will destroy the game community.

SMH @ CCP. Classic case of CCP yet again introducing a new variable instead of fixing an existing problem.

+1 for Kane!

Going back to Eve and AFK Farming!

I really want to try my kbm with dust. Ive got a really nice mouse too. Unfortunately my living room is very not kmb setup friendly...

On topic though, is the gap really that large? I use a pad rigjt now and I'm a decent player, cant personally tell when someone is using kbm.

I don't think they'll separate, they will just "account" for it in matchmaking like they do for other things.

I use a move controller, so I guess I will end up just playing with myself. lol. hmmm, maybe nothing has changed.

As a completely independent side comment in regards to the kb/mouse vs dualshock, I'm sorry OP, but they're not balanced. I personally don't care. I haven't used either in at least 2 builds (I know I'm outdated), but when I was a heavy with a kb/mouse, I felt like I was cheating. You could turn instantly with pinpoint accuracy. Even that won't save people from the front bumper of my LAV.

I'm not sure it's really a game changing difference between the two. I suppose they'll have to crunch the numbers and find out.

Do you want to be in different battle queues based on the controller type you used last match?

Awesome. No worries about splitting community. The kbm people will stop using it when they have to go up against other kbm people. They only like it now because of the advantage over most others.

Only kbm people can strafe exactly right to left while sprinting, something almost impossible on the controller, and even worse its nearly impossible to strafe and jump and keep cross hair on target. On gamepad you can't press x to jump without releasing camera control unless you use another finger but then you aren't firing gun with r1 which is also same hand.

In reality, I think kbm should be removed, the game client doesn't seem to be able to handle the movement updates available with kbm. Or your server side can't seem to update the client fast enough, making the user somewhat invincible, since you're always shooting empty air even though your client shows the guy in middle of your cross hair, but server obviously knows the guy wasn't their, since it didn't register hit/damage on opponent. I'm guessing that's more feasible then increasing the frequency of updates sent to clients.

...

No I dont think the community should be split based on controller type.

...

KB/M appeals to PC gamer's, that other hows will never play a shooter in a console. That is something unique, that CCP will be a fool to ignore, just because some "Kids" can only use a DS3.

they dont have to remove the old modes, they could make a new one with choice to go KBM or DS3

the only real reason i see ppl against this is they want to maintain their edge vs ppl with DS3s..

how is it breaking apart a community that is playing in random matches? why not just go do corp battles or w/e and maintain your sense of community? because you want to continue to "pwn stupid console gamers" with your KBM is my guess

If you think a mouse is so superior, why you don't use one ?.... they are very cheap.

The only advantage i have with a mouse, is over 12 years of practice with it. Nothing more.

strawman argument meet strawman, taking balance out of the equation makes the discussion worthless.

Please edit your post as this is the part on topic.

There's no segregation going on. Every PS3 comes bundled with a DS3 so everyone can play together if they want to. Except for those who don't want to.

I see no problem here.

Sorry telc but I cant because I believe its all part of the whole idea. This is whats going through peoples heads when they are considering this. The only reason people would consider splitting them is because of the obvious advantages you get with the KBM that have yet to be addressed. For this reason there may be some who agree that KBM and DS3 should be separated. If there was no difference other than input preference (and the usual mouse is more accurate than a pad) then this would not even be discussed. Its the fact that there are these problems that some will even consider this as a solution.

I posted what I did because people need to see the forest for the trees as well. If you instantly thought oh this is a good idea but then realize that the only reason you think that is because of the issue of balance then you realize that no you dont want a split you want the KBM fixed. Like I said taking out KBM would be the best and simplest solution but I dont care either way as long as it gets balanced.

Eve and New Eden has always been about 1 shard, 1 universe. Seperating players by controller type dramatically departs from that. What happens if Dust 514 comes out on PC? What if Dust then comes out on another console down the line?

We should never consider segregating the community based on input. If CCP wants to use battle stats to pit more experienced and higher skilled players against each other to make sure new players don't get pub stomped that's fine. Creating an artificial wall in the gaming community because of the input are using is wrong.

While I do agree that splitting the community in any way is a poor idea, if that is what it takes for me to not have my mouse sensitivity crushed even lower its a pill I'm willing to swallow. This game already feels extremely sluggish with kbam and I'd debate quitting if it got worse.

That being said, this is going to make pub games even less representative of the corp battle experience. In less "serious business" corps players who first step into corp battles are more likely to be immediately discouraged than they are now. And as I'm sure you all know that corp battles are already significantly different. Because while number of users who use controllers likely vastly outweigh kbam users I would agree with the sentiment that it is easier to be good with kbam than a controller. From there I would argue that the average skill level of each group would not be equivalent. I feel like some players are going to feel cheated or overly frustrated if they go from a solidly positive kdr in pub matches to a solidly negative one in corp matches. I'm pretty sure this is already going to be a problem and splitting the community is only going to male it worse.

Anyway its a bit rambling and probably poorly typed because I'm on my phone, but there are my two cents.

Long as my corporation isn't seperated when going into matchmaking, go for it.

I destroy controller users daily. Without your auto aim you'd never have a chance.

Long as my corporation isn't seperated when going into matchmaking, go for it.

I destroy controller users daily. Without your auto aim you'd never have a chance.

Long as my corporation isn't seperated when going into matchmaking, go for it.

I destroy controller users daily. Without your auto aim you'd never have a chance.

I would agree to take it out completely. if you want a KBM setup go play on your damn computer. clearly there is a huge disadvantage to DS3 player's. while i have used a KBM setup before and there's a huge accuracy improvement i won't keep using it. not everyone would like to sit up right holding a mouse and keyboard to play a console game. For me it's a console game not a computer, so use DS3 and make it fair. maybe those people at the top of leaderboard's won't be so good anymore eh

Didn't all the KB/M people QQ when their turn speed was reduced once though?

The way I see it both sides will NEVER agree on a balance. Because each side will always be biased to their side.

But I honestly don't see separating the 2 would work at all.

Should have just made this game DS3 only.... Would have squashed the debate there >.> (I mean honestly it's the reason most console games don't allow KB/M support)

Go explain to protoman how he is nerfed because he uses the controller.

Off topic discussion and will derail the thread.

The issue I have is that no weight should be given in any algorithm to controller type in match making. Let the end stats of the users and their skill (however CCP determines that) be used for match making.

Bad players are bad players and good players are good players. I really don't care what controller you use.

Once upon time
A few new clones ago
I was in your sights
You got me alone
You found me
I'm tur-r-r-ning
Still tur-r-r-r-ning.

I guess you didn't care
And I guess I liked that
And when I fell hard
You took a step back
And teabagged me, teabagged me, teabagged me-e-e-e.

And now I'm long gone
Back in the MCC
And I realize the blame is on me

Cause I knew you were trouble when you walked in
So shame on me now
Could've turned as fast and shot for the win,
Put my controller down oh
I knew you were trouble when you walked in
So shame on me now
Could've turned as fast and shot for the win,
Now i'm lying on the cold hard ground
Oh, oh, keyboard, keyboard, keyboard
Oh, oh, mouse, mouse, mouse

I use the DS3 in my left hand, and mouse in my right hand. Which category i fit into ?

BTW, one of the things a find the most appealing about Dust 514 is the mouse. I normally don't play multiplayer shooter games in the console, only in PC.

Take that option away, and most likely i will end up playing Planetside 2 or CS;GO in my PC.

You do realize dust has KB/M because some "kids" can only use KB/M.

I dont have a problem with this. Last time i checked this was a console game.

They shouldn't have had K/B support from the beginning, this wouldn't even be an issue.

And separating players by input is a good idea. Drop the PS Move (because its a gimmick and jacks with the DS3 controls), and split the K/B from the DS3 so the K/B users get irritated and then finally take it up the butt an switch to DS3 to be like everyone else or quit this game altogether.

i'm ok with this, mouse and keyboard is like playing the game with training wheels and rather not have to go against people who can point and click to get a kill.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744

Do not separate by controller type; you will destroy the game community.

Didn't all the KB/M people QQ when their turn speed was reduced once though?

The way I see it both sides will NEVER agree on a balance. Because each side will always be biased to their side.

But I honestly don't see separating the 2 would work at all.

Should have just made this game DS3 only.... Would have squashed the debate there >.> (I mean honestly it's the reason most console games don't allow KB/M support)

KB have an advantage with tanks this is known.

My personal experience with KB on infantry movement is that its identical to ds3, there are those that argue its faster on kb, I say turn down the deadzone on the move controller options as that seems to have effect on the controls sticks of a ds3.

The main issue is mouse vs right stick, and even the major issue isnt the precision diffference, i know many players who can aim as precisely with a ds3 as they can a mouse, but mouse is easier(to a degree).

What makes mice powerful is they can allow for fast and minute movements in one setup. Ds3ers only avenue is senstivity, Turn it up all the way and you get faster turn(currently 100 stil gets outturned by mouse, that said the continous turning of a ds3=advantage on turning of turrets over mouse). Anyway there isnt a variable way to effect turn speed without affect cursor speed(therefore precision aim speed). The solution is balistics and/or quick turn option like a fast 180 option for ds3 to compensate. Also seperate Hip and ADS sensitivities.



That said a hori turbo controller with its adjustable selector on control sticks ~ same as adjustable dpi programmable mice. Point is you can't control everything, modded controllers are also a reality in most games but fortunately it seems that the burst/tac ar weapon recoils have eliminated that need, Though im curious why i havent seen anyone apply it to the burst HMG's yet because that would be some epic QQ tear collection and likely to result in a ban cause it would be hella obvious.

Point is the disparity b/w kb/m and ds3 isnt nearly as big as it is in PC land and are closer together than ppl think, there are of course exceptions and both inputs have a relative advantage/disadvantage over the other.

Fact is its a perception issue, most of the top players in this game are all DS3 currently and whether you want to believe that or not its truth.

The major real advantage of mouse over ds3 is turn speed especially 180. Its 3s vs 1ish second. Create a quick turn option and perhaps some sort of ballistic function so that if you are at the edges of your stick on the x-axis the velocity of the turn increases, then players can maintain a small senstivity to maintain precision on aim while still being able to make quick turns. (Problem solved).

Not really, KBM have huge advantage and we are tired, play with controller and im sure you are not that good , thanks

We are also planning to introduce Matchmaking improvemtns that will take controller input into account.

Why would they split up a small playerbase even more, another CCP flop

I would like to know who plays with kb/m, and if they are any better than somebody of equal talent using a DS3.

This is a console game first and foremost, and if kb/m gives a massive advantage against those of us with analog sticks, then it should be dealt with accordingly.

However I kinda doubt it makes that much of a difference, and I honestly can't tell who in the game uses a DS3, Move, or kb/m. And unless there is a ton of players using kb/m, splitting us up would be devastating for them.

The whole reason for playing an FPS on a console is that everyone is on same playing field.

I've noticed issues with small subset of fights where I can't get a single shot in out of more than one Gek 38 clip. It couldn't be lag because there are no other issues in same match. Its mostly happens with a hopper, and I never get a single shot in( I'm on chest, never get red cross hair). I always assumed it was some back end flaw in update priority due to it happening usually with squadded/corp players. Now I assume the invincible players are good KBM players and there IS some kind of sync issue. I know a good player when I fight one, I'm not talking about them. These are weird fights. Happens rarely. But too often with squad/corp player to be just random internet gods issue.

CCP already has the hard data on KBM users, that's why they are giving a heads up...

They should do it old style, give a check box on type of match we want.

My preferences:(by default, nothing changes)
[X] - Complete match only
[X] - Dual axis controller only
[X] - No HAV
[X] - No Dropships
[ ] - No LAV
[ ] - No Aur items in fittings

My vehicle issue is due to balance/exploit issues, I would eventually allow them in my matches I assume.

I'm not OK with dying to Killswitch fitted Scouts strafe jumping all over, but at least it increases the ISK reward. So many of them since new level 3 Aur proto suits.

And lastly, for someone who played FPS on PC before PS3/Xbox was out, nothing beats the control advantage of KBM. If it were not for the fact that you cannot re-assign keys and bad/missing defaults, the console shock controller players would be crying.
Also I'm guessing, due to same reason as us, we don't have a KBM capable area. Like most PS3 owners, I assume.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744

Do not separate by controller type; you will destroy the game community.

No, just no. We are all in this sandbox together. The last thing we need is putting up artificial walls between each other. The community is one of the most vital aspects of this game. The game is what brings you in, but its the community that makes you stay.

Anything that tries to divide up the community it something that will hurt the success of this game.

No, just no. We are all in this sandbox together. The last thing we need is putting up artificial walls between each other. The community is one of the most vital aspects of this game. The game is what brings you in, but its the community that makes you stay.

Anything that tries to divide up the community it something that will hurt the success of this game.

But dude your not going to be in pubs forever, this isn't cod.

We also know that eventually pub matches won't exist, when were fully emerged into eve.

Getting rid of "hot join/pub" games from a console FPS is a faster way to kill this game than to segregate Kb/M support.

Unless CCP is purposely attempting to sabotage their own game, this isn't true.
Despite the fact this comes form EvE and has a large "hardcore" fanbase, that doesn't eliminate the fact that it has an even larger "casual" fanbase, and you can't remove pubbies without removing the casual audience.

On the topic of the thread, I agree, don't segregate based on controller choice.

Destroying the community ..............The game is gonna crash.......................... wooo gloom and doom(sarcasm)
Because CCP plans on separating people who use the default hardware for a CONSOLE system(ds3) from people who want to use KBM a PC UI.......Thats funny listen to this garbage thread.

Go ahead CCP please segregate.You have my full support.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744

Do not separate by controller type; you will destroy the game community.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744

Do not separate by controller type; you will destroy the game community.

The PS3 supports KB/M ... so i say it is very much part of the console.

If you don't like it, send a E-mail to Sony and complaint about it.

Mwaaha-ha-ha-ha! We is gunna segregates yoo! LOL!

...
[FEEDBACK] Controller and Kb/m gap - balancing the two control schemes.
Update: The dev team will compare turn speeds with kbm and controllers for both infantry and vehicles to see if there are inconsistancies. We are also planning to introduce Matchmaking improvemtns that will take controller input into account.

oh is this the excuse you ppl use when u get pwnd by controller- he was auto aiming? LMAO

I gotta say, I think y'all might be overreacting.

There are some advantages to keyboard mouse. One when in vehicles you maintain more speed while turning. Two the sensitivity let's you turn faster. So does turning up the controller sensitivity but the mouse still has an advantage. There are differences but I don't think they are strong enough to justify segregation. You will just stop people from using mouse and keyboards.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph!



... And then he stroked his Star Trek Evil Universe goatee menacingly.


Oh, wait! No, he didn't. He didn't say anything even remotely like that.




Where, precisely, does he say "segregate," "split," "divide," or anything that implies that? He didn't.

"taking controller input into account" != "segregating the community"


I gotta say, I think y'all might be overreacting.

Feel free to explain how matchmaking factoring in controller type is going to do anything other than assign people to games based on that.

As a player that has spent equal time on both inputs in this game I'd have to say the gap is much smaller than I expected from an infantry point of view. Being a life long PC gamer KB/m feels much more natural and did help my game a bit, although situational awareness is really where it is at. You get it in the back or side it doesn't much matter what your input is.

For that reason I think it is stupid to even consider any match making tweaks based on input.

KB/m is just not practical for vehicles as the current turn speed with the mouse is just too slow. You have to hybrid ds3/ kbm to get the most from a vehicle. Maybe fix that first before coming up with crazy match making algorithms.

PS the mouse speed is still way too slow even for infantry.

Also fix ds3 input.... Not nearly as polished and smooth as any other fps I've tried on ps3.

@Tiel:

What I reckon the idea is would be something like this:

If there are sixteen players with keyboard and mouse, and they're all going into a pub game, the matchmaking system would try to divide them as evenly as possible. Eight to each side, give or take a couple. And even then, this isn't necessarily a primary factor in the matchmaking, but most likely just something that will be taken into account, because, um, that's exactly what Wang said.


If they changed the matchmaking system to do a better job of taking, e.g. four full squads and sixteen randoms, and making two teams of two squads and eight randoms each, instead of three-squads-plus-four vs. one-squad-plus-twelve, would you call that "segregation," too?
Would you really have a problem with that approach to placing squads and randoms in teams? Personally, I'm tired of the redline-fests, no matter which side I land on. (although one end of that equation is significantly more frustrating)

Would folks really have issues with a minor change in how the randoms fill out your team? If you have three KB/M users in your squad, and there're two in mine, and there're five KB/M users in the pile of randoms when all of us join a game, is it really that big of a deal if you guys get two of the KB/M randoms, and we get the other three? Or if both our squads are on the same side, and there're two squads that have no KB/M users, sticking all five of those randoms over there, and only giving us randoms with DS3 controllers? I just don't see the problem.

Or is it that you guys think that this controller-as-factor-somewhere-in-the-matchmaking-process thing will involve breaking up preformed squads or something? 'Cause he didn't say anything about that, either. That I would definitely not like to see, but I really doubt they would do it, so, yeah. I'm not worried.


Anyway, my only point is that I really do think y'all are freaking out over somthing imaginary, or at least not yet known. He wrote two sentences that barely contain any information, and people are acting like the sky is falling.

Point is there's no need to separate the users.

Its a programming issue with how lacking the ds3 is.

This whole thing shouldn't even exist.

CCP by stating that, is literally saying one is more OP then the other so we need to balance teams now because of it.

Instead of fixing the ds3.

What it should be is a players choice in what they're comfortable with, not an unbalanced set up that CCP created.

How did you interpret "taking controller input into account" as "segregating based on controller input"?

I really do not see the gap. Is this part of an on going conversation where I'm missing serious context?

Or are you just being a sensationalist attempting to stir up a lot of confusion and trolling based on some wild assumptions?


I'm guessing the latter...


- To be sure, kb/m is the superior controller for fps. I will definitely buy one if DUST becomes something worth dedicating the money to. I really appreciate the ability to hook up kb/m to DUST, as it's one of the features I feel most console shooters drop the ball on... Why cripple yourself with inferior tech?

- The sensitivity speeds should definitely be tweaked to prevent very high turn speeds, but this is a balancing issues, not an input issue or even a matchmaking issue.

- There is an argument to consider for matchmaking and input device, namely that kb/m should be considered slightly better than controller for grading purposes. However it does not (and I do not feel it is implied by their note) that they should segregate the playerbase.

There is an argument to consider for matchmaking and input device, namely that kb/m should be considered slightly better than controller for grading purposes. However it does not (and I do not feel it is implied by their note) that they should segregate the playerbase.

I use the DS3 in my left hand, and mouse in my right hand. Which category i fit into ?

I thought I was the only player that did this. I only use the mouse to aim and fire.

Get rid of KB/M completely, but segregation would do me just fine....I play a console game for a reason....so I don't have to use a KB/M. If you want to play a FPS with a KB/M go play on your computer....

Only reason I treat Dust seriously as a shooter is because it uses KB/M. Take it away and I'm gone.

Ok, it's time to clear up some misconceptions.

Despite the half quote by the OP which lead to the conclusion that this is to segregate the community by controller input types (which is not case), there are a lot of good feedback, and suggestions about this topic and this is exactly what we want to hear from you, our player community.

What we want to offer is a choice for players who want the option to play against other players using the same input device and not to force anyone into it, which doesn't make much sense as many others have pointed out. If this is implemented into the Matchmaking system it will be done in a way that will not force a segregation of players who use different control inputs. And if this is implemented we will still allow mixed control input matches. To reinterate, this is about giving more choices to our players and not taking it away from you.

One more thing I would like to add is that Matchmaking will only affect high sec public matches and will not affect null sec matches.

We will continue to fine tune the controller sensitivity levels and work on balancing the game play.

Ok, it's time to clear up some misconceptions.

What we want to offer is a choice for players who want the option to play against other players using the same input device and not to force anyone into it, which doesn't make much sense as many others have pointed out. If this is implemented into the Matchmaking system it will be done in a way that will not force a segregation of players who use different control inputs. And if this is implemented we will still allow mixed control input matches. To reinterate, this is about giving more choices to our players and not taking it away from you.

One more thing I would like to add is that Matchmaking will only affect high sec public matches and will not affect null sec matches.

We will continue to fine tune the controller sensitivity levels and work on balancing the game play.

my advice:
dont sepperate the community, ditch KB/M support and every 1 is sitting in the same boat. Simple as that and i dont give a damn what kain spero wants. Dust is at the moment the only game that offers KB/M and if you have a clue about PC gaming then you know that controller users dont really have a chance against KB/M. Another thing is when you ditch this silly "feature" the devs have more time to take care of more important aspects of the game. The only thing that i see again here is that the imperfects defending again a advantage against regular players. We saw what happend last time with the TAC AR or do i have to remember who offered the current soloution to balance them out?

my advice:
dont sepperate the community, ditch KB/M support and every 1 is sitting in the same boat. Simple as that and i dont give a damn what kain spero wants. Dust is at the moment the only game that offers KB/M and if you have a clue about PC gaming then you know that controller users dont really have a chance against KB/M. Another thing is when you ditch this silly "feature" the devs have more time to take care of more important aspects of the game. The only thing that i see again here is that the imperfects defending again a advantage against regular players. We saw what happend last time with the TAC AR or do i have to remember who offered the current soloution to balance them out?

When I saw this posted I thought it was a troll. Gamebreaking imo.

Am I the only one that uses controller and KB at the same time ?

Only reason I treat Dust seriously as a shooter is because it uses KB/M. Take it away and I'm gone.

Ok, it's time to clear up some misconceptions.


What we want to offer is a choice for players who want the option to play against other players using the same input device and not to force anyone into it.

Ok, it's time to clear up some misconceptions.

Despite the half quote by the OP which lead to the conclusion that this is to segregate the community by controller input types (which is not case), there are a lot of good feedback, and suggestions about this topic and this is exactly what we want to hear from you, our player community.

What we want to offer is a choice for players who want the option to play against other players using the same input device and not to force anyone into it, which doesn't make much sense as many others have pointed out. If this is implemented into the Matchmaking system it will be done in a way that will not force a segregation of players who use different control inputs. And if this is implemented we will still allow mixed control input matches. To reinterate, this is about giving more choices to our players and not taking it away from you.

One more thing I would like to add is that Matchmaking will only affect high sec public matches and will not affect null sec matches.

We will continue to fine tune the controller sensitivity levels and work on balancing the game play.

Get rid of KB/M completely, but segregation would do me just fine....I play a console game for a reason....so I don't have to use a KB/M. If you want to play a FPS with a KB/M go play on your computer....

Eve Online is a PC Game. Dust 514 connects to that PC Game. As far as I'm concerned, you're in -MY- world; not the other way around. Self-entitled? Absolutely. Problem with it? You haven't been in New Eden long enough to understand

Ok, it's time to clear up some misconceptions.

Despite the half quote by the OP which lead to the conclusion that this is to segregate the community by controller input types (which is not case), there are a lot of good feedback, and suggestions about this topic and this is exactly what we want to hear from you, our player community.

What we want to offer is a choice for players who want the option to play against other players using the same input device and not to force anyone into it, which doesn't make much sense as many others have pointed out. If this is implemented into the Matchmaking system it will be done in a way that will not force a segregation of players who use different control inputs. And if this is implemented we will still allow mixed control input matches. To reinterate, this is about giving more choices to our players and not taking it away from you.

One more thing I would like to add is that Matchmaking will only affect high sec public matches and will not affect null sec matches.

We will continue to fine tune the controller sensitivity levels and work on balancing the game play.

CCP Cmdr Wang, if you give people the option to self segregate themselves by offering "a choice for players who want the option to play against other players using the same input device" then you are fostering segregation whole heartily. I don't care if you allow there to be mixed input matches or if the segregation is by choice. Trying to hide behind the fact that you would be giving players "more choices" is NO excuse. Any type of matchmaking that takes into account controller input puts the game on a very dangerous and very slippery slope. It endangers the sandbox and the community.

Please, I urge you not to continue down this path. This is coming from someone who loves this game and has been along for the ride with you all developing this game for almost a year now. Please reconsider this course of action. The freedom of inputs is one of this games most unique features and something that amazes me every time I play it. The fact that you have made a system where someone can start with a DS3 then switch to Mouse and keyboard, and then transition almost seamlessly to the Move and then back again is a great achievement. Don't cheapen this accomplishment by building walls among the player base in their very earliest moments in the game.

Ok, it's time to clear up some misconceptions.

Despite the half quote by the OP which lead to the conclusion that this is to segregate the community by controller input types (which is not case), there are a lot of good feedback, and suggestions about this topic and this is exactly what we want to hear from you, our player community.

What we want to offer is a choice for players who want the option to play against other players using the same input device and not to force anyone into it, which doesn't make much sense as many others have pointed out. If this is implemented into the Matchmaking system it will be done in a way that will not force a segregation of players who use different control inputs. And if this is implemented we will still allow mixed control input matches. To reinterate, this is about giving more choices to our players and not taking it away from you.

One more thing I would like to add is that Matchmaking will only affect high sec public matches and will not affect null sec matches.

We will continue to fine tune the controller sensitivity levels and work on balancing the game play.

Fiddle all you want with the high sec mechanics. It won't stop the playerbase slide; honestly it's a waste of time. Someone in the office is playing the blame game and spun the wheel to controllers vs KBM. They couldn't be more wrong. The game isn't catching on because you are under-delivering on the persistent universe promise.

You are making a **** poor lobby shooter and you should stop, because no one here came for that and other companies do it a lot better.

I'm sorry I'm being so abrasive, but you seem to not understand the harm you are doing to your own community a majority of the time lately. It wasn't always this way, I hope that whatever changed for the worse can be rectified soon.

Fiddle all you want with the high sec mechanics. It won't stop the playerbase slide; honestly it's a waste of time. Someone in the office is playing the blame game and spun the wheel to controllers vs KBM. They couldn't be more wrong. The game isn't catching on because you are under-delivering on the persistent universe promise.

You are making a **** poor lobby shooter and you should stop, because no one here came for that and other companies do it a lot better.

I'm sorry I'm being so abrasive, but you seem to not understand the harm you are doing to your own community a majority of the time lately. It wasn't always this way, I hope that whatever changed for the worse can be rectified soon.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Sorry but why you dont wanna play with controller?

... I do play with a controller.

What we want to offer is a choice for players who want the option to play against other players using the same input device and not to force anyone into it, which doesn't make much sense as many others have pointed out. If this is implemented into the Matchmaking system it will be done in a way that will not force a segregation of players who use different control inputs. And if this is implemented we will still allow mixed control input matches. To reinterate, this is about giving more choices to our players and not taking it away from you.

You may not be forcing it, but you're enabling it. Giving me the choice to play with only people using my control scheme, you're giving me the ability to separate myself from everyone else using a bogus criterion. There's no reason for this option. You already supposedly have matchmaking take into consideration some measure of player skill, that's all that matters. Control scheme has NOTHING to do with anything, and it's mind boggling why you would give this as an option to avoid a class of players based on that.

my advice:
dont sepperate the community, ditch KB/M support and every 1 is sitting in the same boat. Simple as that and i dont give a damn what kain spero wants. Dust is at the moment the only game that offers KB/M and if you have a clue about PC gaming then you know that controller users dont really have a chance against KB/M. Another thing is when you ditch this silly "feature" the devs have more time to take care of more important aspects of the game. The only thing that i see again here is that the imperfects defending again a advantage against regular players. We saw what happend last time with the TAC AR or do i have to remember who offered the current soloution to balance them out?

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18530 (The original KB+M thread)

Ok, it's time to clear up some misconceptions.

Despite the half quote by the OP which lead to the conclusion that this is to segregate the community by controller input types (which is not case), there are a lot of good feedback, and suggestions about this topic and this is exactly what we want to hear from you, our player community.

What we want to offer is a choice for players who want the option to play against other players using the same input device and not to force anyone into it, which doesn't make much sense as many others have pointed out. If this is implemented into the Matchmaking system it will be done in a way that will not force a segregation of players who use different control inputs. And if this is implemented we will still allow mixed control input matches. To reiterate, this is about giving more choices to our players and not taking it away from you.

One more thing I would like to add is that Matchmaking will only affect high sec public matches and will not affect null sec matches.

We will continue to fine tune the controller sensitivity levels and work on balancing the game play.

You do realize dust has KB/M because some "kids" can only use KB/M.

Ok, it's time to clear up some misconceptions.

Despite the half quote by the OP which lead to the conclusion that this is to segregate the community by controller input types (which is not case), there are a lot of good feedback, and suggestions about this topic and this is exactly what we want to hear from you, our player community

.....
One more thing I would like to add is that Matchmaking will only affect high sec public matches and will not affect null sec matches.

We will continue to fine tune the controller sensitivity levels and work on balancing the game play.

Well even if it's going to be a choice, it still can segregate the community. I know as a DS3 user, I would likely choose to avoid kbm users. I have enough trouble dealing with this games poor aiming mechanics, let alone having to go up against players who have the ability to use a mouse with perfect precision aiming.

I think this should be tried for a little while, just to see what it's like and to see if the massive freak-out reaction from people in this thread is worth any merit. Although based on the popularity of this thread, it would seem more people use kbm than we suspect.

Would be funny though if when I go into a DS3 only match, the competition is severely reduced

I use a controller for movement and a mouse for aiming at the same time on and off during games, how will you place someone like me in a matchmaking system based on controller/keyboard?

it's a horrible idea anyways, instead of separating us, how about you fix the broken KB+M mechanics that let heavies strafe as fast as an assault and tanks that move abnormally fast?

The reason why some of you dont want to have an filter for controller or kb/m only is because you are insecure and afraid of the other kb/m users that are better than you.

You want to have controller people on the field so you can be able to shoot and kill someone since you cant kill the other kb/m freaks that are better than you.

If you think you are such pros you should be glad you have competition .

The reason why some of you dont want to have an filter for controller or kb/m only is because you are insecure and afraid of the other kb/m users that are better than you.

You want to have controller people on the field so you can be able to shoot and kill someone since you cant kill the other kb/m freaks that are better than you.

If you think you are such pros you should be glad you have competition .

Fiddle all you want with the high sec mechanics. It won't stop the playerbase slide; honestly it's a waste of time. Someone in the office is playing the blame game and spun the wheel to controllers vs KBM. They couldn't be more wrong. The game isn't catching on because you are under-delivering on the persistent universe promise.

You are making a **** poor lobby shooter and you should stop, because no one here came for that and other companies do it a lot better.

I'm sorry I'm being so abrasive, but you seem to not understand the harm you are doing to your own community a majority of the time lately. It wasn't always this way, I hope that whatever changed for the worse can be rectified soon.

200th reply, we did it people, we did it.

200th reply, we did it people, we did it.

I play with controller and kb/m in the same battle, is this going to be a problem? will I HAVE to play in mixed (only)?

Christ... Again with this argument. I have been waiting for this game since 2008. Personally i find this games crushing lack of content and options a more pressing matter then segregation of its small player base, based on peripheral.

Lets face it you look at the top 100 players off of the boards and ask them what their preferred control scheme is i imagine most will say DS3, lets say 60, about 20 will say KB/M exclusively, the remanding 20 will say a combination of the two.

That's a good mix for a console game. Especially one with a PC counter part. What i do not understand is this communities gross inadequacy issues that manifest when ever this subject is rears its ugly head...

Well the fact that CCP are the ones running with this tells us they are still second guessing on fundamentals, or never resolved them in the first place.

As you have a more then valid opinion that there are other more pressing issues it just convinces me more that there is a broader malaise that permeates this community based on the beta they see before them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNhPig8inEY skip to 1:06:30 that's where the video related to DUST begins. About 10 minutes after that point they get to a working version of the game with CCP's in-house chrome engine. While admittedly the graphics are dated and clumsy the potential for unique and dynamic game play far exceeds what we have now.

It pisses me off to no end that we cant even move past simple things like the differences in preferred control scheme when the game doesn't even offer things that were shown to be working, in a different iteration 4 years ago. Perhaps my priorities are skewed. Perhaps it's, that I feel the difference in potential for both DS3 and KB/M are not some great impassable chasm that far to many people assume it is. I don't know, for any one to assume they do wreaks of hubris.

What i will say, and this is 100% opinion, is that if CCP does proceed with the segregation. They are playing into the desires of the lowest common denominator and will have lost a good portion of my respect, for their work.


EDIT; Sorry Bald, this has less to do with your comment and more to do with me simply having more to say.

Only reason I treat Dust seriously as a shooter is because it uses KB/M. Take it away and I'm gone.

Lol bye, you surely wont be missed. This is a console game, not a PC game.

This is a terrible idea. We are drifting ever further away from the one universe goal. I know players who use - DS3, third party optical controllers, eagle eye adapters, move, mouse, gamepad, and several variations, combinations, and hybrids. How on earth do you organize that into lobbies, especially when we have players who use multiple control schemes within the same match?

No one is splitting anything , they just give us choices , to be able to play against DS3 users or against KB/M or both.

Why would anyone be against this is beyond me .

Adapt or die , like you love to throw around here.