DUST Search - GAME DESTROYING: Separating Players by Controller Type Is Completely Unacceptable

Panther Alpha wrote:

Kray Dytt wrote:

Not entirely true. To keep the game alive, a certain amount of revenue is required. While it is true that long-term players are important to the game, if they do not generate enough revenue, it's "game over".

Now, the goal of any F2P game is to make a profit. To do this, the game needs to encourage people to spend money on it. Not everyone has to spend money, but enough players need to spend enough to keep it going. Non-paying players have "value" because they add to the game's enjoyability, which leads to more players including players that do pay.

You getting confuse with Pay To Win games ( P2W ).

Free To Play games are about "Volume", the biggest the community, the highest is the revenue ( Profit ).

If you have to pay to win, the community is smaller, and the profit margin is also smaller. You have to encourage people to "play" the game, regardless if the pay or not.

It is a reason why more and more companies are using this marketing model. Because in the long term, it generates more profit than a Play to win model.


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Kray Dytt THE DOLLARS 11	Posted - 2013.03.06 09:12:00 - [1] - Quote Since there are multiple threads on this topic, I'll just post in all of them Copy-paste from that other thread: The type of controller used (KB/M, Move, DS3) should not have any influence on any aspect of the game, ever. Not even as one of the criteria for matchmaking. Why? -Everyone is free to use whichever controller they prefer. If you feel KB/M is better/easier than DS3... use it. -If external factors like controllers are taken into account, where will it end? Mic availability? TV size/resolution? Heck, why not come round to my house and see how well my living room is set up? Maybe the lack of Feng Shui is ruining my game... -People would simply exploit it (hook up the KB/M after being dropped into a match). Prevent that by not recognizing plug-ins during a game? Great, so now my daughter pulls out the KB/M (which happens frequently) and I can't play the rest of the match... It's a non-issue, really. There are loads of great players who use a controller. All setups have advantages and disadvantages, it's up to each individual to choose what they prefer. If anything needs to be done, it's CCP looking into DS3 and Move controls to see if they can improve them. While they're at it, they could also allow for button configuration for KB/M so I can lob grenades without having to reposition my hand ;) I'll add to that the following: Yes, the commonly accepted "thruth" is that KB/M is better for FPS games. I agree, which is why I use a KB/M. I started playing this game with the DS3, but I just can't do it. My aim is so terrible it's ridiculous (As an assault character, I went from a KDR of approximately .25 with DS3 to a KDR of between 1 and 3 in average matches). Yes, I remember when Halo (I think the first) was released on PC and XBOX and PC players were able to get on the XBOX servers. They obliterated. However, we've come some ways since then. And people have been playing FPS games with a DS3 for years now. I'm pretty sure there are lots of people who are better with a DS3 than they are with KB/M. Are the best DS3 players better or even equal to the best KB/M players? I have no idea, to be honest. Fact remains that it is only 1 of the many factors contributing to someones performance. Lastly, while KB/M might be preferable to DS3 for some roles, other roles might be better suited to the DS3. Taking controller input into account for matchmaking could lead to certain roles being more common in DS3-heavy matches, while other roles would be more common in KB/M-heavy matches. I don't think that's really something we want. The "solution" of not allowing KB/M altogether is a terrible idea because I, for one, would simply stop playing. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be alone, which wouldn't be very good for the game. Again, if anyone thinks KB/M users have an advantage, simply use KB/M. However, since this seems to be an issue for some, and CCP obviously wants to address that issue, I'll make a suggestion: CCP, you could, of course, include controller input in the matchmaking process. Since we don't know the "math" behind this process, no-one would actually know how much it factors into the whole process. This means it could be technically "in there" but not really do all that much. No-one would know. You would be completely honest and transparent if you were to say "it is a factor in the matchmaking process", which would make all the DS3 users that complain about it, very happy. Just saying... ;)
Kray Dytt THE DOLLARS 11	Posted - 2013.03.06 11:55:00 - [2] - Quote BlG MAMA wrote: If you like Kb/M so much you should play against Kb/M users , why play against the weak and disabled that dont use AURUM and Kb/M? Adapt or die. Adapt, as in, get a KB/M if you think that's so much better? Hmmm Also, you think CCP would seperate those who pay real money from those who don't, to lure in more people that don't pay money? Riiiiight :) Face it: if you're not paying real money, you're cannon-fodder meant to increase enjoyment and therefore willingness to spend cash for those who do
Kray Dytt THE DOLLARS 11	Posted - 2013.03.06 12:46:00 - [3] - Quote BlG MAMA wrote: Kray Dytt wrote: BlG MAMA wrote: If you like Kb/M so much you should play against Kb/M users , why play against the weak and disabled that dont use AURUM and Kb/M? Adapt or die. Adapt, as in, get a KB/M if you think that's so much better? Hmmm Also, you think CCP would seperate those who pay real money from those who don't, to lure in more people that don't pay money? Riiiiight :) Face it: if you're not paying real money, you're cannon-fodder meant to increase enjoyment and therefore willingness to spend cash for those who do i know and its sad I was of course exaggerating a bit here on the cannon-fodder part: you can be competitive without spending a dime. However, I was very serious when it comes to separating paying from non-paying players. The game can only exist if it generates revenue. While non-paying players can "help" the game by making it more enjoyable for paying players, separating them would defeat that purpose meaning they are only "leeching", CCP would have absolutely no reason to want them around.
Kray Dytt THE DOLLARS 11	Posted - 2013.03.06 12:50:00 - [4] - Quote xaerael Kabiel wrote: Kray Dytt wrote: BlG MAMA wrote: If you like Kb/M so much you should play against Kb/M users , why play against the weak and disabled that dont use AURUM and Kb/M? Adapt or die. Adapt, as in, get a KB/M if you think that's so much better? Hmmm Also, you think CCP would seperate those who pay real money from those who don't, to lure in more people that don't pay money? Riiiiight :) Face it: if you're not paying real money, you're cannon-fodder meant to increase enjoyment and therefore willingness to spend cash for those who do Not quite. I don't pay for anything other than boosters and a few items to test. The heavy aurum users to me are just a massive payday. The isk reward from dropping those guys is huge, and ever since the protosuits have gone Aur I've been seeing payouts of over 500k on a regular basis. Adapt or cry (tm) I might not have been completely clear: what I mean is that one should not cry about people spending money, because they actually pay for your game. Demanding to be able to be separated from them is beyond ridiculous :) And yes, I agree, love getting high payouts thanks to AURUM spenders! I've only bought the merc pack so far and I won't buy expendable equipment with AUR, but boosters and BPO, yes.
Kray Dytt THE DOLLARS 11	Posted - 2013.03.06 13:07:00 - [5] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: Kray Dytt wrote: I was of course exaggerating a bit here on the cannon-fodder part: you can be competitive without spending a dime. However, I was very serious when it comes to separating paying from non-paying players. The game can only exist if it generates revenue. While non-paying players can "help" the game by making it more enjoyable for paying players, separating them would defeat that purpose meaning they are only "leeching", CCP would have absolutely no reason to want them around. You have no idea how F2P games work do you ? Long term players will end up Buying for "something" at one point or another, but not every one wants to pay for an advantage in regular basics. Eg ;only Buying for cosmetics now and again. But the long term players are the ones that keep the game alive, regardless of how much real cash they spend on it. The two things are needed in a F2P game.... The long term player that doesn't spend cash in regular basics, and the casual player that pays cash in regular basics. Not entirely true. To keep the game alive, a certain amount of revenue is required. While it is true that long-term players are important to the game, if they do not generate enough revenue, it's "game over". Now, the goal of any F2P game is to make a profit. To do this, the game needs to encourage people to spend money on it. Not everyone has to spend money, but enough players need to spend enough to keep it going. Non-paying players have "value" because the add to the game's enjoyability, which leads to more players including players that do pay. However, if you allow people who don't pay to play separate from those that do, they do not add any reason for people to pay (or might even discourage people from paying, because they might end up with a smaller pool of players to play with/against). That is why it would be ridiculous.
Kray Dytt THE DOLLARS 11	Posted - 2013.03.06 14:16:00 - [6] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: Kray Dytt wrote: Not entirely true. To keep the game alive, a certain amount of revenue is required. While it is true that long-term players are important to the game, if they do not generate enough revenue, it's "game over". Now, the goal of any F2P game is to make a profit. To do this, the game needs to encourage people to spend money on it. Not everyone has to spend money, but enough players need to spend enough to keep it going. Non-paying players have "value" because they add to the game's enjoyability, which leads to more players including players that do pay. You getting confuse with Pay To Win games ( P2W ). Free To Play games are about "Volume", the biggest the community, the highest is the revenue ( Profit ). If you have to pay to win, the community is smaller, and the profit margin is also smaller. You have to encourage people to "play" the game, regardless if the pay or not. It is a reason why more and more companies are using this marketing model. Because in the long term, it generates more profit than a Play to win model. I'm not sure I get your point. "Play to win" is a "label" put on some F2P games to indicate that optional sales are required (or at least a very important factor) to be able to be competitive. It is however not a different business model as such. It's still F2P, but it uses a rather crude method of "encouraging" people to pay, i.e., making it almost mandatory if you want to enjoy the game. Yes, companies are moving away from this method because it isn't a very effective method. CCP has explicitly stated that they will not offer "pay to win" items. I.e. everything you can buy with money can be achieved without spending money as well. In the future this will be guaranteed by the open player market as well. However, all that has nothing to do with separating paying from non-paying players. I'm not really sure why you brought it up to be honest. All I said was that separating paying from non-paying players (which the OP hinted at, because he felt that AUR item users where ruining the game for non-AUR item users) would be ridiculous because that separate group of non-paying players would have no "value" for the game. Their numbers mean nothing if they only play with/against each other and don't pay anything... Of course, the OP is suggesting that the game is "pay to win", which it isn't, which makes it even more ridiculous.
Kray Dytt THE DOLLARS 12	Posted - 2013.03.07 09:01:00 - [7] - Quote Stundryn wrote: Actually this is my first console shooter. My ps3 came with a DS3 and Move. My ratio is 1.0+ Never played SOCOM but i see you are pretty emo about it. I have a decent PC and prefer it for shooters/Eve. However i bought a ps3 for this particular game. I find that my ps3 did not come with a keyboard or mouse. Only a DS3/Move. Yet i am seeing increased advantage to using kb/m to play on the ps3. So rather than using a kb/m that i prefer (cost nearly $200) . I will do the same thing and buy a controller that has an advantage for less money. If spending money is how one gets better then....i guess it is okay to spend money on better controllers. If they say i am cheating....so are all the kb/m users. The new kb/m can have key binds that are stored in memory. There is your rapid fire etc. CCP just needs to remove the kb/m input for Dust. Problem solved. Did your PS3 come with a TV? Mine didn't, but I find it provides me a great advantage compared to not having a TV.... Also, I'm way more effective sitting on my sofa than I am sitting on the ground, yet my PS3 did not come with a sofa. Luckily, I already had both a TV and a sofa. amazingly, I also had a keyboard and a mouse, since I own a computer too. Actually, I had a couple of spare keyboards and mice... they aren't worth 200$ though. More like 20$. they don't have fancy programmable buttons. The combination I'm using now isn't even wireless. Works fine though, I still prefer it to a DS3. If you want to buy a controller with all kinds of mods, go right ahead. I see absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to. Auto-fire and comparable features, fine by me. Heck, you could pay a professional FPS player to play the game for you for all I care... Removing KB/M input for Dust will not "solve" any "problem". It will however cost the game a large number of players, me included, who simply don't like playing FPS games with a controller.
Kray Dytt THE DOLLARS 12	Posted - 2013.03.07 10:16:00 - [8] - Quote Axirts wrote: Forget nerfing kbm or ds3, Buff up the move! I almost bought one to play this game with, until I read about people's experiences with it in Dust