DUST Search - GAME DESTROYING: Separating Players by Controller Type Is Completely Unacceptable

Rustonius wrote:

Awesome. No worries about splitting community. The kbm people will stop using it when they have to go up against other kbm people. They only like it now because of the advantage over most others.

Only kbm people can strafe exactly right to left while sprinting, something almost impossible on the controller, and even worse its nearly impossible to strafe and jump and keep cross hair on target. On gamepad you can't press x to jump without releasing camera control unless you use another finger but then you aren't firing gun with r1 which is also same hand.

In reality, I think kbm should be removed, the game client doesn't seem to be able to handle the movement updates available with kbm. Or your server side can't seem to update the client fast enough, making the user somewhat invincible, since you're always shooting empty air even though your client shows the guy in middle of your cross hair, but server obviously knows the guy wasn't their, since it didn't register hit/damage on opponent. I'm guessing that's more feasible then increasing the frequency of updates sent to clients.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 951	Posted - 2013.03.01 16:50:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: We are also planning to introduce Matchmaking improvemtns that will take controller input into account. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744 Do not separate by controller type; you will destroy the game community.
Winscar Shinobi Better Hide R Die 47	Posted - 2013.03.01 16:54:00 - [2] - Quote Didn't all the KB/M people QQ when their turn speed was reduced once though? The way I see it both sides will NEVER agree on a balance. Because each side will always be bias to their side. But I honestly don't see separating the 2 would work at all. Should have just made this game DS3 only.... Would have squashed the debate there >.> (I mean honestly it's the reason most console games don't allow KB/M support)
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2930	Posted - 2013.03.01 16:55:00 - [3] - Quote Wait.. there's a difference? what about people who have all three controllers?
Travi Zyg G I A N T 22	Posted - 2013.03.01 16:56:00 - [4] - Quote I really want to try my kbm with dust. Ive got a really nice mouse too. Unfortunately my living room is very not kmb setup friendly... On topic though, is the gap really that large? I use a pad rigjt now and I'm a decent player, cant personally tell when someone is using kbm.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 28	Posted - 2013.03.01 16:57:00 - [5] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: We are also planning to introduce Matchmaking improvemtns that will take controller input into account. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744 Balance the max mouse turn speed to be the equivalent of max DS3 speed, but do not separate by controller type. You will destroy the game community. Fix the balance between the control schemes but do not go down this path. First, keep in mind this is beta. They may very well want to see if some numbers end up being different as they track stuff between the two controller types. Are there less cases of ARs going 30-2 in a match with only same controllers. Do snipers fair better on the KBM games then the DS3. It could be part of a test. Secondly, for randomized matchamaking that occurs in "high sec" i dont see how this would hurt to be in play. NULL sec would mainly be organized corps anyway so very little matchmaking. Then again, I dont see how they do this well, what if I want to play with a buddy who uses KBAM? Do we go into a KBAM match where my DS3 gets raped, or to a DS3 match where his KBAM dominates?
Yosef Autaal SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 34	Posted - 2013.03.01 16:58:00 - [6] - Quote Do not split the controller types pleasssse
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 415	Posted - 2013.03.01 16:59:00 - [7] - Quote Winscar Shinobi wrote: Didn't all the KB/M people QQ when their turn speed was reduced once though? The way I see it both sides will NEVER agree on a balance. Because each side will always be bias to their side. But I honestly don't see separating the 2 would work at all. Should have just made this game DS3 only.... Would have squashed the debate there >.> (I mean honestly it's the reason most console games don't allow KB/M support) I apologize in advance for being a grammarstapo, but each side will always be biased not 'bias'. If you have a bias, you are biased. Sorry again, it's a really common error in video game communities for some reason and it drives me up the wall.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 339	Posted - 2013.03.01 16:59:00 - [8] - Quote Travi Zyg wrote: I really want to try my kbm with dust. Ive got a really nice mouse too. Unfortunately my living room is very not kmb setup friendly... On topic though, is the gap really that large? I use a pad rigjt now and I'm a decent player, cant personally tell when someone is using kbm. Actually that's the really worst thing about this proposed splitting of the community - MOST OF THE BEST PLAYERS USE CONTROLLER Also Many many people use them BOTH for vehicles/infantry or vice versa. Splitting the battle queues and thus the community by controller type is a serious serious mistake.
Morathi III Rebelles A Quebec 61	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:01:00 - [9] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: We are also planning to introduce Matchmaking improvemtns that will take controller input into account. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744 Do not separate by controller type; you will destroy the game community. Not really, KBM have huge advantage and we are tired, play with controller and im sure you are not that good , thanks
Panther Alpha Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 59	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:01:00 - [10] - Quote I use the DS3 in my left hand, and mouse in my right hand. Which category i fit into ? BTW, one of the things a find the most appealing about Dust 514 is the mouse. I normally don't play multiplayer shooter games in the console, only in PC. Take that option away, and most likely i will end up playing Planetside 2 or CS;GO in my PC.

Winscar Shinobi Better Hide R Die 47	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:02:00 - [11] - Quote Knarf Black wrote: Winscar Shinobi wrote: Didn't all the KB/M people QQ when their turn speed was reduced once though? The way I see it both sides will NEVER agree on a balance. Because each side will always be bias to their side. But I honestly don't see separating the 2 would work at all. Should have just made this game DS3 only.... Would have squashed the debate there >.> (I mean honestly it's the reason most console games don't allow KB/M support) I apologize in advance for being a grammarstapo, but each side will always be biased not 'bias'. If you have a bias, you are biased. Sorry again, it's a really common error in video game communities for some reason and it drives me up the wall. Fair enough. I hold no grudges.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 339	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:03:00 - [12] - Quote DO NOT DISCUSS BALANCE IN THIS THREAD This is a separate topic about whether the community should be split based on controller. It is not a discussion about the merits/bugs of each controller types for what purpose.
Morathi III Rebelles A Quebec 61	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:07:00 - [13] - Quote Btw im disagree in split currently we are too few player and we split our corp too, that cant happen
Sentient Archon Red Star. 702	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:07:00 - [14] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: We are also planning to introduce Matchmaking improvemtns that will take controller input into account. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744 Do not separate by controller type; you will destroy the game community. SMH @ CCP. +1 for Kane! Going back to Eve and AFK Farming!
Brigitte Newt Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 25	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:08:00 - [15] - Quote This is the worst idea ever. I use both controller and kb/m. Please, do not do this!
Free Beers Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1112	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:10:00 - [16] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: We are also planning to introduce Matchmaking improvemtns that will take controller input into account. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744 Do not separate by controller type; you will destroy the game community. Holy **** batman are you serious? Dear Cmdr Wang WTF were you thinking man? You are telling me you aren't smart enough to balance out the kb/m thing so you give up? That gives me lots of confidence with all the real issues you have to deal with. As a controller user I really dont care who uses what. I do just fine against anyone
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 171	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:10:00 - [17] - Quote Making too much of it I think. If part of the matchmaking algorithm for pubs is kbm, it only affects pubs and won't split the players if properly weighed. I would welcome the harder public level for sniping, too.
OgTheEnigma Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 91	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:10:00 - [18] - Quote I don't think there should be any segregation, but I would like if there was some indication of control method on the scoreboard. As a DS3 user, I'm quite interested to see how I'm faring against KBM users.
Free Beers Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1112	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:11:00 - [19] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Kain Spero wrote: CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: We are also planning to introduce Matchmaking improvemtns that will take controller input into account. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=587744#post587744 Do not separate by controller type; you will destroy the game community. SMH @ CCP. Classic case of CCP yet again introducing a new variable instead of fixing an existing problem. +1 for Kane! Going back to Eve and AFK Farming! +1 for being awesome like me SA
slap26 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 467	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:11:00 - [20] - Quote Why would they split up a small playerbase even more, another CCP flop

Stinker Butt UnReaL. 103	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:13:00 - [21] - Quote I don't think they'll separate, they will just "account" for it in matchmaking like they do for other things. I use a move controller, so I guess I will end up just playing with myself. lol. hmmm, maybe nothing has changed. As a completely independent side comment in regards to the kb/mouse vs dualshock, I'm sorry OP, but they're not balanced. I personally don't care. I haven't used either in at least 2 builds (I know I'm outdated), but when I was a heavy with a kb/mouse, I felt like I was cheating. You could turn instantly with pinpoint accuracy. Even that won't save people from the front bumper of my LAV. I'm not sure it's really a game changing difference between the two. I suppose they'll have to crunch the numbers and find out.
Sobriety Denied Universal Allies Inc. 456	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:18:00 - [22] - Quote Travi Zyg wrote: I really want to try my kbm with dust. Ive got a really nice mouse too. Unfortunately my living room is very not kmb setup friendly... On topic though, is the gap really that large? I use a pad rigjt now and I'm a decent player, cant personally tell when someone is using kbm. i don't take notice. most KBMs rely strictly on their direct aim and theres nothing else except finer tracking in their bag of tricks.. imo KBM isn't a win button, but I'm not going to fight this new system, i really have fallen out of the community, have turned mic off, and just solo all the time so if they wanna divide the community u[ maybe my stats will be even that much more easier to pad. if the community fights against it and wins i'm fine by that also. if it's good for the overall game and is restricted to high sec pub matches i dont see much problem, especially if for the casual newb not to be scared off by KBM. the good players will hoepfully fight in more important battles someday, i dont see the divide carrying over to corp battles, would be pretty stupid if the divide was put into place for corp battles.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 341	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:18:00 - [23] - Quote Stinker Butt wrote: I don't think they'll separate, they will just "account" for it in matchmaking like they do for other things. I use a move controller, so I guess I will end up just playing with myself. lol. hmmm, maybe nothing has changed. As a completely independent side comment in regards to the kb/mouse vs dualshock, I'm sorry OP, but they're not balanced. I personally don't care. I haven't used either in at least 2 builds (I know I'm outdated), but when I was a heavy with a kb/mouse, I felt like I was cheating. You could turn instantly with pinpoint accuracy. Even that won't save people from the front bumper of my LAV. I'm not sure it's really a game changing difference between the two. I suppose they'll have to crunch the numbers and find out. This thread is about whether to split the community based on controller type NOT ABOUT SPECIFIC BALANCE AND BUGS THAT HAVE BEEN REPORTED REPEATEDLY. Do you want to be in different battle queues based on the controller type you used last match?
Rustonius Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:20:00 - [24] - Quote Awesome. No worries about splitting community. The kbm people will stop using it when they have to go up against other kbm people. They only like it now because of the advantage over most others. Only kbm people can strafe exactly right to left while sprinting, something almost impossible on the controller, and even worse its nearly impossible to strafe and jump and keep cross hair on target. On gamepad you can't press x to jump without releasing camera control unless you use another finger but then you aren't firing gun with r1 which is also same hand. In reality, I think kbm should be removed, the game client doesn't seem to be able to handle the movement updates available with kbm. Or your server side can't seem to update the client fast enough, making the user somewhat invincible, since you're always shooting empty air even though your client shows the guy in middle of your cross hair, but server obviously knows the guy wasn't their, since it didn't register hit/damage on opponent. I'm guessing that's more feasible then increasing the frequency of updates sent to clients. One more note, the whole awesome thing about console games is that everyone is on same footing, no advantage because other guys video card costs more then your whole computer. Making everyone use gamepad is something console players want and expect as a reason to play games on console. There is a reason the console versions of fps games outsell their PC counterparts, even playing field.
Stinker Butt UnReaL. 103	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:22:00 - [25] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: Do you want to be in different battle queues based on the controller type you used last match? well, no. like I said though, I don't think that's going to happen (at least not completely separating us). I think you're inferring a lot from a statement that really gave no details. That's not unusual for those "updates" though. I think it's fair to bring it up for discussion. Maybe a dev will post a little more info about it.
Panther Alpha Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 59	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:26:00 - [26] - Quote Rustonius wrote: Awesome. No worries about splitting community. The kbm people will stop using it when they have to go up against other kbm people. They only like it now because of the advantage over most others. Only kbm people can strafe exactly right to left while sprinting, something almost impossible on the controller, and even worse its nearly impossible to strafe and jump and keep cross hair on target. On gamepad you can't press x to jump without releasing camera control unless you use another finger but then you aren't firing gun with r1 which is also same hand. In reality, I think kbm should be removed, the game client doesn't seem to be able to handle the movement updates available with kbm. Or your server side can't seem to update the client fast enough, making the user somewhat invincible, since you're always shooting empty air even though your client shows the guy in middle of your cross hair, but server obviously knows the guy wasn't their, since it didn't register hit/damage on opponent. I'm guessing that's more feasible then increasing the frequency of updates sent to clients. KB/M appeals to PC gamer's, that other hows will never play a shooter in a console. That is something unique, that CCP will be a fool to ignore, just because some "Kids" can only use a DS3.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 955	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:27:00 - [27] - Quote This issue is not about balance. We can leave that for another discussion. This about not segregating the community based on the input someone chooses to use no matter how thoughtful or well intended that separation may be.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 318	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:27:00 - [28] - Quote I have a hard time accepting splitting the two up. But the only reason this is even considered by most is because we know there is a huge advantage to using the KBM setup. Beyond the whole better aiming thing you get bonuses like instant full speed armor tanks and no max turn speeds for any suit. The list goes on but that is a taste of the advantages. The problem is if you limit the KBM to the same speeds as the DS3 they will complain because they want their extra speed. Meanwhile you will have DS3 complaining because they have to deal with a max turn speed for the different types of suits. Personally I think KBM has no business in a console game other than for typing a message. They would do themselves a huge favor if they just took it out altogether.
I HateMyFace BetaMax. 14	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:27:00 - [29] - Quote That's a horrible idea. Perhaps focus on **** that matters? And if your that worried about being at a disadvantage just got get a keyboard mouse combo from Walmart for 20 bucks
Sobriety Denied Universal Allies Inc. 456	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:29:00 - [30] - Quote they dont have to remove the old modes, they could make a new one with choice to go KBM or DS3 the only real reason i see ppl against this is they want to maintain their edge vs ppl with DS3s.. how is it breaking apart a community that is playing in random matches? why not just go do corp battles or w/e and maintain your sense of community? because you want to continue to "pwn stupid console gamers" with your KBM is my guess



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