DUST Search - GAME DESTROYING: Separating Players by Controller Type Is Completely Unacceptable

Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:

Nova Knife wrote:

CCP Eterne wrote:

Just to repeat what Cmdr Wang said in the other thread, there is no intent to segregate players because of controller used, only for it to play a factor in matchmaking. Additionally, this only applies to high security public matches and does not apply to null sec or corp matches.

Like many other people have said ; If you feel the need to make any sort of changes to matchmaking, it indicates the input methods are not balanced. Currently, the bugs where turn speed limits were un-nerfed for mouse/keyboard, and the keyboard speed bug for armor tanks are really the only things that are imbalanced regarding the input methods.

Fix these, and there is no reason whatsoever to have any sort of filter or matchmaking changes because there will be no difference in performance other than player preference.

It's really that simple.

I ran an armor tank last night and it didn't instantly move at top speed in the indicated direction when I pressed "W" for forward or "S" for reverse, it took time to accelerate. Also, rotation speed on mouse look is capped based on suit type. If the heavy turned faster than what your used to seeing than he's most likely wearing a type 2 suit, or equivalent, which sacrifices armor for shield and higher mobility.

So with that information, from someone who actually went and tested for these bugs you speak of, the two problems you want fixed don't actually exist.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 318	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:27:00 - [1] - Quote I have a hard time accepting splitting the two up. But the only reason this is even considered by most is because we know there is a huge advantage to using the KBM setup. Beyond the whole better aiming thing you get bonuses like instant full speed armor tanks and no max turn speeds for any suit. The list goes on but that is a taste of the advantages. The problem is if you limit the KBM to the same speeds as the DS3 they will complain because they want their extra speed. Meanwhile you will have DS3 complaining because they have to deal with a max turn speed for the different types of suits. Personally I think KBM has no business in a console game other than for typing a message. They would do themselves a huge favor if they just took it out altogether.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 319	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:42:00 - [2] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: ... No I dont think the community should be split based on controller type. ... Please edit your post as this is the part on topic. Sorry telc but I cant because I believe its all part of the whole idea. This is whats going through peoples heads when they are considering this. The only reason people would consider splitting them is because of the obvious advantages you get with the KBM that have yet to be addressed. For this reason there may be some who agree that KBM and DS3 should be separated. If there was no difference other than input preference (and the usual mouse is more accurate than a pad) then this would not even be discussed. Its the fact that there are these problems that some will even consider this as a solution. I posted what I did because people need to see the forest for the trees as well. If you instantly thought oh this is a good idea but then realize that the only reason you think that is because of the issue of balance then you realize that no you dont want a split you want the KBM fixed. Like I said taking out KBM would be the best and simplest solution but I dont care either way as long as it gets balanced.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 318	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:56:00 - [3] - Quote Syz Dante wrote: While I do agree that splitting the community in any way is a poor idea, if that is what it takes for me to not have my mouse sensitivity crushed even lower its a pill I'm willing to swallow. This game already feels extremely sluggish with kbam and I'd debate quitting if it got worse. That being said, this is going to make pub games even less representative of the corp battle experience. In less "serious business" corps players who first step into corp battles are more likely to be immediately discouraged than they are now. And as I'm sure you all know that corp battles are already significantly different. Because while number of users who use controllers likely vastly outweigh kbam users I would agree with the sentiment that it is easier to be good with kbam than a controller. From there I would argue that the average skill level of each group would not be equivalent. I feel like some players are going to feel cheated or overly frustrated if they go from a solidly positive kdr in pub matches to a solidly negative one in corp matches. I'm pretty sure this is already going to be a problem and splitting the community is only going to male it worse. Anyway its a bit rambling and probably poorly typed because I'm on my phone, but there are my two cents. This post exactly demonstrates what I said. KBM users feel that their controls are too sluggish despite the fact that they dont have the designed limitations in turn speed for the different suits that are supposed to exist. Most of these users want to be able to turn on a dime and do 360s in mere moments rather than the time it takes controller users because of the different suits turn speed limitations that are supposed to exist. This is why I say it would be best to just remove the KBM altogether because you will never be able to balance it out for both camps. Make the mouse the exact same speed as the DS3 and the KBM users will complain that they dont get the speed that they need. Make them faster and you have DS3 players noting the obvious advantage in turn speed you get with the KBM. The only other way to fix this is to remove all suits limitations on turn speeds...which means the scout will basically be dead as a suit since they rely on speed and being faster than the max turn speed available to other suits.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 319	Posted - 2013.03.01 18:10:00 - [4] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Telcontar Dunedain wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: ... No I dont think the community should be split based on controller type. ... Please edit your post as this is the part on topic. Sorry telc but I cant because I believe its all part of the whole idea. This is whats going through peoples heads when they are considering this. The only reason people would consider splitting them is because of the obvious advantages you get with the KBM that have yet to be addressed. For this reason there may be some who agree that KBM and DS3 should be separated. If there was no difference other than input preference (and the usual mouse is more accurate than a pad) then this would not even be discussed. Its the fact that there are these problems that some will even consider this as a solution. I posted what I did because people need to see the forest for the trees as well. If you instantly thought oh this is a good idea but then realize that the only reason you think that is because of the issue of balance then you realize that no you dont want a split you want the KBM fixed. Like I said taking out KBM would be the best and simplest solution but I dont care either way as long as it gets balanced. Go explain to protoman how he is nerfed because he uses the controller. Off topic discussion and will derail the thread. I never said protoman (or many of the other imps) are nerfed because of this. I take out KBM users all the time but these facts still remain and its due to these facts that some might agree to splitting. It would be a bad idea to split the playerbase due to controller options. However there will be some on both sides who will like this idea. Why? Because majority of KBM users will want to keep their current speeds despite how game breaking it might be and plenty of DS3 players will call it unfair for there to be such a difference based on controller choice. For good players this will show alot less. Protoman eats pretty much anyone for lunch using his DS3. Just because he is good doesnt mean that this imbalance does not exist...it means that his skills by far outweigh the advantage that the KBM gives. You know Zitro uses keyboard for movement and DS3 for aiming on his tank JUST BECAUSE of the imbalance that the keyboard has on giving armor tanks instant full speed right? I am sure he is not the only person who does this (nor do I blame him for taking advantage of CCP not balancing this issue). Like I said people need to see the forest for the trees. If someone comes on and says YES we should split the community then those people need to realize that the reason they say this is because they either A) want to keep the current imbalance because it helps them or B) do not want to have to deal with those who are willing to use the KBM with the obvious balance issues that it currently has. Heck Syz Dante posted this exact thing that he is for the split if CCP is considering changing the KBM and correct the obvious balance issues between the 2 controllers. The fact is the only reason this is even considered by ANYONE (being CCP or the players) is because of the balance issue. CCP needs to fix the balance and stop the idea of separating players based on controller type.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 321	Posted - 2013.03.01 19:42:00 - [5] - Quote If this game does go to to PC from consoles then you are inviting huge issues that will probably cause most of the consol gamers to leave. To my knowledge this game was meant for PS3 (eventually PS4) only. Open this up to PC gamers and watch people flood in and work on creating hacks to work on this game. BTW that was off topic lets get back to whats at hand here. CCP fix your issues dont just bandaid it by separating the community. Fix the KBM so work like its supposed to comparable to the DS3.....or get rid of the KBM entirely.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 333	Posted - 2013.03.05 00:58:00 - [6] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Nova Knife wrote: CCP Eterne wrote: Just to repeat what Cmdr Wang said in the other thread, there is no intent to segregate players because of controller used, only for it to play a factor in matchmaking. Additionally, this only applies to high security public matches and does not apply to null sec or corp matches. Like many other people have said ; If you feel the need to make any sort of changes to matchmaking, it indicates the input methods are not balanced. Currently, the bugs where turn speed limits were un-nerfed for mouse/keyboard, and the keyboard speed bug for armor tanks are really the only things that are imbalanced regarding the input methods. Fix these, and there is no reason whatsoever to have any sort of filter or matchmaking changes because there will be no difference in performance other than player preference. It's really that simple. I ran an armor tank last night and it didn't instantly move at top speed in the indicated direction when I pressed "W" for forward or "S" for reverse, it took time to accelerate. Also, rotation speed on mouse look is capped based on suit type. If the heavy turned faster than what your used to seeing than he's most likely wearing a type 2 suit, or equivalent, which sacrifices armor for shield and higher mobility. So with that information, from someone who actually went and tested for these bugs you speak of, the two problems you want fixed don't actually exist. Then your not doing it right. Its a known bug and many armor tankers utilize this to their advantage. I know of at least 3 in imperfects and 1 in IE that do this. And I have seen other armor tanks doing the same.