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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.05.27 20:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Can we get a spreadsheet of these changes? Graphs are nice, but numbers are better.
Also, aren't assault supposed to have speed to push objectives, whereas sentinels have low speed in order to be point defense? A speed reduction is okay, but WOW is that drastic.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 21:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
In a conflict do your advance your supply lies faster than your main combat troops? Nope? I didn't think so.
The value of the Logisitcs role is in its capacity to support the efforts of other suit not its own combat potential. You are force multiplying by establishing uplinks, nanohives, repairs, revives etc.
You should be staying with your squad or the main body of your team to support them not running off to establish equipment is remote positions. That bleeds into the role of scouting. As such there is no need to be able to move faster than your front line combat troops.
If we are talking about roles then we should do so logically. As a role the Logistics essentially fills the "Support/Healer" role. This typically is denoted by lesser health, a wide variety of support units, and certainly is NOT characterised by excessive speed more so than say the "DPS" role (AKA the Assault).
This here. Assaults have speed because they are supposed to push objectives. Lower speed means they cannot push. Especially in light of the fact that logis are getting a buff, this is in effect a double nerf. I would suggest just buffing logi speed and seeing how that works.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 03:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Okay Rattati, I think the big point of contention is not so much logis being equal or faster, but assaults losing speed when their primary purpose is rapid deployment and pushing objectives. And again, nerfing one while buffing the other leads to things like god-mode tanks from 1.7, when AV was nerfed and tanks were buffed.
In short, I want the logi to be buffed, but not at the expense of the assault suit. If your dead-set on reducing their speed, perhaps look at reducing it very slightly, maybe on the order of 0.2-0.3 m/s. The current 0.5 m/s? (cant really tell on the graph) is harsh on its own, but couple that with a buff to logi/commando speed buffs?
If you have one, I think a lot of us would really appreciate seing a proposal on a spreadsheet so we can make accurate opinions. If for instance you posted a spreadsheet showing assaults all losing 0.2 m/s instead of what I fear to be 0.5 m/s or more judging by the charts, my opinion on your initiative would drastically change.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 04:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Feeding of Pokeys idea of HP to mobility, we could have assaults and logos have the same walk speed, while logos gain more sprint speed and more stamina.
So both can walk and fire at the same speed, but since the logo has less health than the assault, it gets more sprint speed in order to get out of dodge, and more stamina to be able to consistently outrun a chasing assault.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 16:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Very happy to hear Rattati is considering a smaller reduction in assault speed. MY primary concern was that assaults getting such a big nerf and logi/commandos getting a big buff would be about as effective as 1.7 was at balancing tanks. I think Rattati should even consider 0.2 m/s reduction and run metrics, but overall I wouldn't cry over 0.3 m/s reduction.
As far as having all suits be the same, I am against that. If all weapons cost the same, it would be one thing, but why should Amarr Assault have the same CPU/PG as Minmatar Assault when the scrambler costs over twice the fitting that the combat rifle does? I think we need to perhaps make a baseline assault fitting and adjust the races from there.
For example, let's say base assault fitting is X CPU and Y PG
Amarr Assault would have -5% X and +10% Y
Caldari Assault would have +10% X and -5% Y
etc.
This allows for different racial weapon fitting costs, different tanking/preferred module fitting costs, and keeps with the unique flavor of New Eden. Homogenizing fitting means homogenizing fits to all the the same. Or did I misinterpret the Ratman?
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 18:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Assault vs slayer logi You will have to replace that ferroscale plate on the logi for a cardiac regulator for a fair comparison. With the proposed changes you could fit a complex plate on the logi instead of a reactive and have similar movement speeds. The assault will still have more hp and stamina, and a sidearm. The logi will have lots of nice equipment. The assault will have much better sprint speed. I still think you'd be better off slaying in the assault. It's outside the scope of this proposal but the assault should also have meaningful racial bonuses to assaulting (i.e. to it's dps levels). The assault role is defined by it's slayer ability, that hinges on weapon slots, the logistics role hinges on it's support ability which is dependent on equipment slots. Both require utility slots to stay alive and functional. The frequent misconception is that there's an issue when the logi can survive in combat/get from place to place, as if that base utility hampers the assault role. It is not the logi being viable that is an issue, it is the assault having lack luster role definition/supporting mechanics. Give effective racial skills that provide the assault with lethality and they'll perform their role quite nicely, rather than relying on other roles/suits to be gimped just so they can function (as is currently the case).
I am of the mind that logis need a buff, but assaults should not get a nerf. Now if Rattati says something like "We're nerfing assaults now, but we'll be buffing them further on through role bonuses, etc." I'd feel better. But Assaults were useless for ages (anyone remember when we had shield recharge on the Gallente Assault?) and in fact Rattati himself specifically gave them the extra health because he wanted slayers to migrate to the assault suit. Now that they have, they are getting a speed nerf?
Buff the logi, leave assaults alone (ideal) or a smaller nerf like 0.2-0.3 m/s. Nerfing one thing while buffing the other led to 1.7 tanks, and I don't want to see that happen again. ESPECIALLY since Rattati said he wants this to be the last balance pass for a long while.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 22:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:When assault is worrying about it's speed, let's be honest. Is it about the run-strafe speed. Because I see assault players saying
"I will trade run for sprint any day of the week" even though fast sprinting should get you in and out of combat situations and be better.
We can have dynamic strafe speeds as well, so assault can be slower than logi, sprint faster, and still have superior strafe speed. This is going to exacerbate the extant problem, sir. I respectfully request that you not actively provide avenues for people to exploit the hit detection in the game. This is first, last and all reasons in between why strafing is the most important consideration. Heimdallr69 copped to as much when I called them out on it. All of the others who are crying about the change have studiously ignored my commentary. I have repeatedly tried to bring this to light, as it is easy to use and provably effective. The fact that this is the primary and most successful "tactic" it shows that strafe speed is a problem. Being rewarded for standing in the open and juking back and forth two meters rapidly is quite frankly nonsensical, especially when it is MOST effective within the optimal ranges of the most destructive CQC weapons in the game. This is how a calassault duels a heavy and doesn't take more than a quarter of their shields while utterly destroying his opponent at 20m versus a boundless HMG. This is not "skill" it is a mechanical failure on the part of either the client or the server. Nono, it just means, I have the means to always have assault and scouts have the highest strafe speed, regardless of walking/running speeds.
Wouldn't that eventually end up in situations where assaults strafe faster than they walk forward? Or do you mean things like nerf walk speed 10% and reduce the strafe speed multiplier by 10%?
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.06.08 21:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Greiv Rabbah wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Would make a hell of a lot more sense to just switch Logi/Assault HP values instead of their speed values. And that right there is how you truly get slayer logi's. Please just stop talking Aeon, I dont think you've said something smart or on point in a while. Okay, so, a Logi with the speed of an Assault and the durability of a Logi.... ... Is somehow less susceptible to being a Slayer Logi... ... than a Logi with the speed of a Logi and the durability of an Assault... So what you're saying is that, a Logi suit with lower EHP and faster movement (comparatively speaking) is less likely to be a slayer than a Logi with higher EHP and -slower- movement (comparatively speaking). When the whole argument is that the best combination of EHP and Speed = winrawr. Consider this for a second. Slayer--------Slayer--------Support--------Slayer--------Slayer Scout--------Assault--------Logi--------Mando--------Sentinel Two slayer roles that are built for speed, Logi in the center playing support, and two slayer roles built for EHP. That seems much more natural and fluid on the transition than... Slayer--------Support--------Slayer--------Slayer--------Slayer Scout----------Logi-----------Assault--------Mando--------Sentinel and scouts arent support how? because i would think that with absurdly low hp, high mobility, and bonuses to ewar that theyre almost strictly noncombat. especially since turn speeds have been normalized for more than a year and strafe speeds on scouts dont make up for that fact. which would make them more support oriented than logis. i mean... my kdr is terrible enough without me going around LOOKING to get shot at. minjas are still weak enough that a stray bullet from a gunfight happening 60m off tags me and i'm dead
So I guess Scouts being number 2 in kills in PC is just a fluke, right?
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
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